Richard Plantagenet
Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-04 10:24:12
After reading David Baldwin's book The Lost Prince (which I am not sure I go along with but it's an interesting theory) I decided on a trip to Eastwell Church this weekend.
Not too difficult to find and a beautiful, peaceful spot. The tomb and the surrounding remains of the chruch are very overgrown but easy to access.
For me it throws up some questions: If this tomb is indeed Richard Plantagenet, which one? Since Richard III acknowledged two bastards why not this one? Or if this is Richard of York, why did none of the Yorkist followers ever try to set him on the throne.
Perhaps they felt that since Richard had had him declared a bastard they didn't want to make their last king a liar or a usurper by now declaring Richard of York legitmate in order to make his claim valid? Or were they genuinely protecting him (seems unlikely in view of Medieval values).
And if this isn't either a bastard son of Richard III or the Richard of York, who is it - what other Richard Plantagenets might have been around in 1550.
Or of course it may not be a Plantagenet at all. Maybe one day a document will be found that gives the answers but in the meantime its a ncie story and a great mystery.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza-convention.com
Not too difficult to find and a beautiful, peaceful spot. The tomb and the surrounding remains of the chruch are very overgrown but easy to access.
For me it throws up some questions: If this tomb is indeed Richard Plantagenet, which one? Since Richard III acknowledged two bastards why not this one? Or if this is Richard of York, why did none of the Yorkist followers ever try to set him on the throne.
Perhaps they felt that since Richard had had him declared a bastard they didn't want to make their last king a liar or a usurper by now declaring Richard of York legitmate in order to make his claim valid? Or were they genuinely protecting him (seems unlikely in view of Medieval values).
And if this isn't either a bastard son of Richard III or the Richard of York, who is it - what other Richard Plantagenets might have been around in 1550.
Or of course it may not be a Plantagenet at all. Maybe one day a document will be found that gives the answers but in the meantime its a ncie story and a great mystery.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza-convention.com
Re: Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-04 14:36:44
I have also read the book, very nice theory, although like you I believe it would be impossible for Richard son of Edward IV to have lived peacefully in kent. But would also like you, love something to come to light to prove the theory.
I recently watched a tv programme on the Romanovs, I always half hoped that one of the children escaped, alas history now proves otherwise.
M
--- On Mon, 8/4/08, Vicki Christian <vicki.christian@...> wrote:
From: Vicki Christian <vicki.christian@...>
Subject: Richard Plantagenet
To:
Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:24 AM
After reading David Baldwin's book The Lost Prince (which I am not sure I go along with but it's an interesting theory) I decided on a trip to Eastwell Church this weekend.
Not too difficult to find and a beautiful, peaceful spot. The tomb and the surrounding remains of the chruch are very overgrown but easy to access.
For me it throws up some questions: If this tomb is indeed Richard Plantagenet, which one? Since Richard III acknowledged two bastards why not this one? Or if this is Richard of York, why did none of the Yorkist followers ever try to set him on the throne.
Perhaps they felt that since Richard had had him declared a bastard they didn't want to make their last king a liar or a usurper by now declaring Richard of York legitmate in order to make his claim valid? Or were they genuinely protecting him (seems unlikely in view of Medieval values).
And if this isn't either a bastard son of Richard III or the Richard of York, who is it - what other Richard Plantagenets might have been around in 1550.
Or of course it may not be a Plantagenet at all. Maybe one day a document will be found that gives the answers but in the meantime its a ncie story and a great mystery.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza- convention. com
I recently watched a tv programme on the Romanovs, I always half hoped that one of the children escaped, alas history now proves otherwise.
M
--- On Mon, 8/4/08, Vicki Christian <vicki.christian@...> wrote:
From: Vicki Christian <vicki.christian@...>
Subject: Richard Plantagenet
To:
Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:24 AM
After reading David Baldwin's book The Lost Prince (which I am not sure I go along with but it's an interesting theory) I decided on a trip to Eastwell Church this weekend.
Not too difficult to find and a beautiful, peaceful spot. The tomb and the surrounding remains of the chruch are very overgrown but easy to access.
For me it throws up some questions: If this tomb is indeed Richard Plantagenet, which one? Since Richard III acknowledged two bastards why not this one? Or if this is Richard of York, why did none of the Yorkist followers ever try to set him on the throne.
Perhaps they felt that since Richard had had him declared a bastard they didn't want to make their last king a liar or a usurper by now declaring Richard of York legitmate in order to make his claim valid? Or were they genuinely protecting him (seems unlikely in view of Medieval values).
And if this isn't either a bastard son of Richard III or the Richard of York, who is it - what other Richard Plantagenets might have been around in 1550.
Or of course it may not be a Plantagenet at all. Maybe one day a document will be found that gives the answers but in the meantime its a ncie story and a great mystery.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza- convention. com
Re: Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-05 20:22:29
This is intriging, please tell me more
On 8/4/08, Vicki Christian <vicki.christian@...> wrote:
>
> After reading David Baldwin's book The Lost Prince (which I am not sure
> I go along with but it's an interesting theory) I decided on a trip to
> Eastwell Church this weekend.
>
> Not too difficult to find and a beautiful, peaceful spot. The tomb and the
> surrounding remains of the chruch are very overgrown but easy to access.
>
> For me it throws up some questions: If this tomb is indeed Richard
> Plantagenet, which one? Since Richard III acknowledged two bastards why not
> this one? Or if this is Richard of York, why did none of the Yorkist
> followers ever try to set him on the throne.
>
> Perhaps they felt that since Richard had had him declared a bastard they
> didn't want to make their last king a liar or a usurper by now declaring
> Richard of York legitmate in order to make his claim valid? Or were they
> genuinely protecting him (seems unlikely in view of Medieval values).
>
> And if this isn't either a bastard son of Richard III or the Richard of
> York, who is it - what other Richard Plantagenets might have been around in
> 1550.
>
> Or of course it may not be a Plantagenet at all. Maybe one day a document
> will be found that gives the answers but in the meantime its a ncie story
> and a great mystery.
>
> vicki
>
> Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
> At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
> www.Bonanza-convention.com <http://www.bonanza-convention.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
On 8/4/08, Vicki Christian <vicki.christian@...> wrote:
>
> After reading David Baldwin's book The Lost Prince (which I am not sure
> I go along with but it's an interesting theory) I decided on a trip to
> Eastwell Church this weekend.
>
> Not too difficult to find and a beautiful, peaceful spot. The tomb and the
> surrounding remains of the chruch are very overgrown but easy to access.
>
> For me it throws up some questions: If this tomb is indeed Richard
> Plantagenet, which one? Since Richard III acknowledged two bastards why not
> this one? Or if this is Richard of York, why did none of the Yorkist
> followers ever try to set him on the throne.
>
> Perhaps they felt that since Richard had had him declared a bastard they
> didn't want to make their last king a liar or a usurper by now declaring
> Richard of York legitmate in order to make his claim valid? Or were they
> genuinely protecting him (seems unlikely in view of Medieval values).
>
> And if this isn't either a bastard son of Richard III or the Richard of
> York, who is it - what other Richard Plantagenets might have been around in
> 1550.
>
> Or of course it may not be a Plantagenet at all. Maybe one day a document
> will be found that gives the answers but in the meantime its a ncie story
> and a great mystery.
>
> vicki
>
> Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
> At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
> www.Bonanza-convention.com <http://www.bonanza-convention.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-06 10:17:31
Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@...
Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
This is intriging, please tell me more
Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all over the place.
I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza-convention.com
Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
This is intriging, please tell me more
Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all over the place.
I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza-convention.com
Re: Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-06 16:02:51
Baldwin's hypothesis is that Henry VII allowed Richard of Shrewsbury, former Duke of York, to live provided that he didn't disclose his real identity or reproduce.
----- Original Message -----
From: Vicki Christian
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Richard Plantagenet
Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@...
Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
This is intriging, please tell me more
Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all over the place.
I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza-convention.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Vicki Christian
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Richard Plantagenet
Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@...
Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
This is intriging, please tell me more
Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all over the place.
I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza-convention.com
Re: Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-06 16:47:52
Doesn't Baldwin have any idea of the character of Henry VII ?
Richard G
--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Baldwin's hypothesis is that Henry VII allowed Richard of
Shrewsbury, former Duke of York, to live provided that he didn't
disclose his real identity or reproduce.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vicki Christian
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Richard Plantagenet
>
>
> Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@...
> Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
> This is intriging, please tell me more
>
> Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard
Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far
reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to
have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all
over the place.
>
> I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or
executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started
removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So
Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a
relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
>
> vicki
> Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV
western
> At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
> www.Bonanza-convention.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Richard G
--- In , "Stephen Lark"
<stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Baldwin's hypothesis is that Henry VII allowed Richard of
Shrewsbury, former Duke of York, to live provided that he didn't
disclose his real identity or reproduce.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vicki Christian
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Richard Plantagenet
>
>
> Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@...
> Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
> This is intriging, please tell me more
>
> Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard
Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far
reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to
have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all
over the place.
>
> I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or
executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started
removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So
Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a
relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
>
> vicki
> Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV
western
> At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
> www.Bonanza-convention.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard Plantagenet
2008-08-06 17:20:49
good theory on baldwin's part, but i'm not buying it.
the story is that richard of eastwell was richard iii's illegit son. baldwin is bending the story for profit and grasping at straws.
richard of eastwell was either r3's son, or he had a wonderful imagination.
this link is for the richard of eastwell story as originally published via scanned pages of the book, desiderata curiosa
http://niceenoughtoeat.com/Curiosa.htm
here's an article from an olde magazine discussing richard of eastwell.
http://books.google.com/books?id=DI9PAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA126&dq=%22desiderata+curiosa%22&as_brr=1#PPA127,M1
a blogspot on baldwin's book from may 2007
http://medievalnews.blogspot.com/2007/05/did-richard-iii-really-murder-young.html
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Richard Plantagenet
To:
Received: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 11:02 AM
Baldwin's hypothesis is that Henry VII allowed Richard of Shrewsbury, former Duke of York, to live provided that he didn't disclose his real identity or reproduce.
----- Original Message -----
From: Vicki Christian
To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Richard Plantagenet
Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@sky. com
Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
This is intriging, please tell me more
Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all over the place.
I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza- convention. com
the story is that richard of eastwell was richard iii's illegit son. baldwin is bending the story for profit and grasping at straws.
richard of eastwell was either r3's son, or he had a wonderful imagination.
this link is for the richard of eastwell story as originally published via scanned pages of the book, desiderata curiosa
http://niceenoughtoeat.com/Curiosa.htm
here's an article from an olde magazine discussing richard of eastwell.
http://books.google.com/books?id=DI9PAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA126&dq=%22desiderata+curiosa%22&as_brr=1#PPA127,M1
a blogspot on baldwin's book from may 2007
http://medievalnews.blogspot.com/2007/05/did-richard-iii-really-murder-young.html
--- On Wed, 8/6/08, Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Richard Plantagenet
To:
Received: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 11:02 AM
Baldwin's hypothesis is that Henry VII allowed Richard of Shrewsbury, former Duke of York, to live provided that he didn't disclose his real identity or reproduce.
----- Original Message -----
From: Vicki Christian
To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: Richard Plantagenet
Posted by: "C Nelson" c.nelson1@sky. com
Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:22 pm (PDT)
This is intriging, please tell me more
Wish I knew more - I have been unable to find any other Richard Plantagenets of around that time, but I'm sure that in the far reaches of the family there were some, since family names seem to have been used extensively, with Richards and Edwards cropping up all over the place.
I guess that any remote relative that didn't want to be exiled or executed would have made themselves scarce after Henry started removing family members like the Duke of Clarence's son etc. So Richard of Eastwell could be almsot anyone from the family or not a relative at all, just a well educated stone mason.
vicki
Join us to celebrate 50 years of BONANZA, the greatest ever TV western
At the 50th Anniversary Convention - Sept 10-14 2009
www.Bonanza- convention. com
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