Bosworth fairy tale!
Bosworth fairy tale!
2008-11-13 21:09:23
The following is a transcript of the programme broadcast last week in
the UK.
Italics are mine of course.
On Discovery Channel (shame on them!)
GREAT BATTLES
Bosworth Field 1485
This programme supposedly on Bosworth was shown last week in the UK,
though made in 2000.
The programme lacked factual accuracy in all areas, the narrative
very inventive at times, included quotes as if the writers had been
sitting there with pen and paper poised, you know, just like
Shakespeare! There were no sources quoted. There were also some new
ýfactsý or rather ýfactsý Iýve never heard before. Enlighten me if
any of you have heard them. You will know which ones I refer to.
Theyýýll jump out and slap you in the face! In places the story
descends into Alison Weir territory. If the facts donýt fit what the
writers want to say, they make up new ones!
Up to the battle I have included the contenious parts, all the points
I had trouble with. Which means that most of the programme is here....
The real fairy story begins with the narrative of the battle itself.
ýThe Wars of the Roses were setttled in 1485 when Richard of York
came face to face with Henry Tudorýs Lancastrian forces at Bosworth.
Richard is one of the most controversial figures in English history,
and his accession to the throne is surrounded by mystery and intrigue.
Richard was a deeply religious man but he was also a formidable
soldier, devoting long hours to sword practice to the point where the
muscles in his right arm became freakishly well developed.
But as he manouevred his way to the throne he left behind him a trail
of blood revealing a ruthless streak.
After the death of Edward IV there was a constant threat of
assassination, so much so that Richard had his jackets lined with
shards of steel.
He saw treason everywhere.
The princes he had placed in the tower supposedly for their own
protection, but a series of bloody events soon confirmed his personal
ambitions...
After Buckinghamýs rebellion royalty began to lose its majesty and
the mood in the country turned against the king.
Lord Stanley with his personal army would ultimately decide who would
be king.
Henry Tudor landed in his Welsh homeland where his countrymen doubled
the size of his army to 6000, while the king had mustered over 10,000...
In the 2 years of his reign Richard had become alienated from the
country and even some of his closest supporters were questioning
their allegiance.
Richard threatened his knights and nobles with the loss of their
goods, lands and lives if they didnýt rally to his side.
Richard doubted Lord Stanley with his power base in Lancashire so
sent for him to join him at his Nottingham headquarters, but the lord
said he was ill and could not come. This was a poor excuse and
deepened Richardýs suspicions.
So he took out an insurance policy and took Stanleyýs son hostage.
When the young lord tried to escape Richardýs suspicions were further
aroused. Under interrogation he admitted several of his family were
conspiring with Henry but he swore that his father was loyal.
With probably more than a little encouragement from Richard he wrote
to his father urging him to join the king with all his forces.
When he received the letter it is rumoured Stanley senior remarked
ýNo worry. I have plenty other sons.ý
Despite all this Richard spent the night before the battle camped
here (presenter standing on top of Ambien) on Ambien Hill confident
of victory the following day.
Henry on the other hand was a very worried man. Heýd met secretly
with Stanley several times in the days leading up to the battle, but
the Lancastrian had reputedly decided to give him a definitive pledge
of support.
It is rumoured the sound of hysterical laughter and violent sobbing
came from Henryýs tent the night before the battle.
The following morning neither Richard nor Henry was sure who Stanley
would fight with.
As Richard dressed for battle (black armour naturally!)he got the
news that small numbers of his men had deserted to Henryýs camp
during the night. However he was unaware there was more serious
treachery afoot.
The Duke of Norfolk, his most senior officer, had woken to find an
ominous note pinned to his tent. It read ýJockey fo Norfolk make not
so bold for Dickon thy master is bought and sold.ý
The king assembled his army in three divisions. he placed Norfolk in
command of the vanguard, and placed another in reserve at the rear.
(Here the pictures showed a graphic of Ambien Hill with the armies on
the top of the hill, all clumped together at the end where Richardýs
standard now flies)
Richard placed himself with his household cavalry, the cream of his
army, right in the middle.
They had already been in position for two hours before Tudorýs army
appeared.
Stanley deployed his own army off to one side of the main battlefield.
Clearly hedging his bets he appeared to be supporting Richard but was
also well placed to attack the kingýs right flank.
As Henryýs army made itýs final approach it made a detour to the
north to avoid a marsh at the bottom of the hill.
(Only mention of the marsh in the programme, which on the graphic was
placed away from the hill in the Dadlington direction, nowhere near
the fighting.)
If Stanley was going to join Richard then now was the moment to do
it. If he attcked as Norfolkýs men moved off the hill, Henryýs men
would be crushed in between. But Stanley and Norfolk stood still, and
the moment was lost.
Henry wisely decided to give command of the bulk of his army to the
experienced Earl of Oxford. The force was supported by two smaller
battle groups on each flank. Not being a soldier Henry stayed some
way behind Oxford with a small bodyguard of some 70 knights and
infantry men.
Now certain he had been betrayed by Stanley and enraged by Norfolkýs
indecision Richard ( in full black armour and helmeted of course)
gave the order for Stanleyýs son to be killed. But it was never
carried out.
Henryýs troops moved along the bottom of the hill and took up their
positions in front of Richardýs vanguards and the two armies stood
hurling abuse at each other.
The uneasy standoff came to an end when both sides unleashed a
massive volley of arrows. (in the position as illustrated Henryýs
army would have been totally destroyed by this volley! Always a
problem placing the battle on and around the hill!)
Men at arms tossed grenades or petards that exploded in balls of fire
and soldiers ran from the battlefield engulfed in flame.
Norfolk gave his troops the order to move down the hill. They
advanced behind a spiky hedge of bills and pole arms. Norfolk slammed
into Oxfordýs front line. There was an almighty clash of metal. Both
sides lunged forwards with their bills skewering each other in the
process.
A bloody hand to hand contest began.
...here are descriptions of limbs being hacked off etc.
But Norfolkýs men lacked the stomach to fight for their king and
Henryýs army held fast. As the fighting intensifed Norfolkýs attack
began to wither and some of his men fled the battle. Oxford pushed
home this advantage and forced the remainder of the kingýs vanguard
back up the hill. (you try it mate in full armour up a steep incline!)
Richard watched as his men began to struggle against the Tudor army.
Now supported by cavalry, Oxfordýs men began to surge forward (UP
THE HILL??)
To stem this advance Richard ordered his reserve to join the battle.
However they refused to move. The king was running out of options.
A Spanish nobleman in his service begged him ýSire, take all steps to
put your person in safety. In the face of such manifest treason you
cannot hope to win the battle today.ý
But Henry was unaware the tide was turning in his favour. (Henry in
silver armour of course) and believeng he still needed Stanleyýs
troops decided to make a personal appeal to his father-in-law.
Richard caught sight of the Tudor standard moving towards the Stanley
position and a gap opened up in the battle below giving Richard a
clear run at his opponent. He knew if he could get to Henry victory
could still be his.
As his orders were carried by the call of trumpets the king slammed
shut his visor and launched himself down Ambien Hill at the head of
800 of his household cavalry. Three lions on his shirt Richard
slammed into Henryýs bodyguard.
You can imagine Henry paralyzed with fear as he watched the king cut
his way towards him. With one almighty blow Richard killed Henryýs
standard bearer and was only inches away from him when he was carried
away by the sudden intervention of Lord Stanley who ploughed into
Richard with over a thousand knights.
The king was surrounded but refused to yield. Like a madman he roared
in defiance ýTreason! Treason! This day I will die as king or win!ý
Against impossible odds (800 to 1000 impossible?) most of his knights
were cut down and slaughtered. Richard fought on alone lashing out at
his opponents. A savage blow finally silenced the king. In an instant
he was set upon by Henryýs (not Stanleyýs?) men. No mercy was shown.
Apart from a few old scores that needed settling in blood Richardýs
death brought the fighting to a close. The battle had only lasted for
two hours. remarkably for such a decisive encounter only a thousand
men were killed.
(Here we see the stone in the paddock at the bottom of the curent
incorrect Ambien Hill site)
This memorial stone marks the spot where Richard fell (oh no it
doesnýt!)
He was the last English king to die in battle and with his death the
royal bloodline of York finally came to an end (well no it didnýt by
a long way!)
Richard may not have been the greatest king but he had been a valiant
soldier and deserved better than to be betrayed in such a cruel way
(as well as with ridiculous fictional programmes like this one?)
Stanley cemented his alliance with the new order by personally
placing the crown on his step-sonýs head (even though he later wrote
he didnýt meet Henry until the day after the battle and it was
William Stanley who intervened on Henryýs behalf?)
After the battle Richardýs battered and naked body was paraded
through the streets of Leicester. His remains were later exhumed and
unceremoniously thrown into the river Soar. (donýt think so!)
Henry Tudor went on to marry Elizabeth of York to attempt to unify
the two families.
His coronation as Henry 7th marked the birth of a new ruling dynasty
that was to change the face of Europe (and how! with blood and
religious turmoil, presecution, torture, executions and murders. just
for starters! so much better than what went before, wasnýt it?)
credit for writing this nonsense goes to one Peter Strachen and
presnter Crispin Swayne.
I now have no intention of watching any of the other programmes in
the series!
Richard liveth yet
the UK.
Italics are mine of course.
On Discovery Channel (shame on them!)
GREAT BATTLES
Bosworth Field 1485
This programme supposedly on Bosworth was shown last week in the UK,
though made in 2000.
The programme lacked factual accuracy in all areas, the narrative
very inventive at times, included quotes as if the writers had been
sitting there with pen and paper poised, you know, just like
Shakespeare! There were no sources quoted. There were also some new
ýfactsý or rather ýfactsý Iýve never heard before. Enlighten me if
any of you have heard them. You will know which ones I refer to.
Theyýýll jump out and slap you in the face! In places the story
descends into Alison Weir territory. If the facts donýt fit what the
writers want to say, they make up new ones!
Up to the battle I have included the contenious parts, all the points
I had trouble with. Which means that most of the programme is here....
The real fairy story begins with the narrative of the battle itself.
ýThe Wars of the Roses were setttled in 1485 when Richard of York
came face to face with Henry Tudorýs Lancastrian forces at Bosworth.
Richard is one of the most controversial figures in English history,
and his accession to the throne is surrounded by mystery and intrigue.
Richard was a deeply religious man but he was also a formidable
soldier, devoting long hours to sword practice to the point where the
muscles in his right arm became freakishly well developed.
But as he manouevred his way to the throne he left behind him a trail
of blood revealing a ruthless streak.
After the death of Edward IV there was a constant threat of
assassination, so much so that Richard had his jackets lined with
shards of steel.
He saw treason everywhere.
The princes he had placed in the tower supposedly for their own
protection, but a series of bloody events soon confirmed his personal
ambitions...
After Buckinghamýs rebellion royalty began to lose its majesty and
the mood in the country turned against the king.
Lord Stanley with his personal army would ultimately decide who would
be king.
Henry Tudor landed in his Welsh homeland where his countrymen doubled
the size of his army to 6000, while the king had mustered over 10,000...
In the 2 years of his reign Richard had become alienated from the
country and even some of his closest supporters were questioning
their allegiance.
Richard threatened his knights and nobles with the loss of their
goods, lands and lives if they didnýt rally to his side.
Richard doubted Lord Stanley with his power base in Lancashire so
sent for him to join him at his Nottingham headquarters, but the lord
said he was ill and could not come. This was a poor excuse and
deepened Richardýs suspicions.
So he took out an insurance policy and took Stanleyýs son hostage.
When the young lord tried to escape Richardýs suspicions were further
aroused. Under interrogation he admitted several of his family were
conspiring with Henry but he swore that his father was loyal.
With probably more than a little encouragement from Richard he wrote
to his father urging him to join the king with all his forces.
When he received the letter it is rumoured Stanley senior remarked
ýNo worry. I have plenty other sons.ý
Despite all this Richard spent the night before the battle camped
here (presenter standing on top of Ambien) on Ambien Hill confident
of victory the following day.
Henry on the other hand was a very worried man. Heýd met secretly
with Stanley several times in the days leading up to the battle, but
the Lancastrian had reputedly decided to give him a definitive pledge
of support.
It is rumoured the sound of hysterical laughter and violent sobbing
came from Henryýs tent the night before the battle.
The following morning neither Richard nor Henry was sure who Stanley
would fight with.
As Richard dressed for battle (black armour naturally!)he got the
news that small numbers of his men had deserted to Henryýs camp
during the night. However he was unaware there was more serious
treachery afoot.
The Duke of Norfolk, his most senior officer, had woken to find an
ominous note pinned to his tent. It read ýJockey fo Norfolk make not
so bold for Dickon thy master is bought and sold.ý
The king assembled his army in three divisions. he placed Norfolk in
command of the vanguard, and placed another in reserve at the rear.
(Here the pictures showed a graphic of Ambien Hill with the armies on
the top of the hill, all clumped together at the end where Richardýs
standard now flies)
Richard placed himself with his household cavalry, the cream of his
army, right in the middle.
They had already been in position for two hours before Tudorýs army
appeared.
Stanley deployed his own army off to one side of the main battlefield.
Clearly hedging his bets he appeared to be supporting Richard but was
also well placed to attack the kingýs right flank.
As Henryýs army made itýs final approach it made a detour to the
north to avoid a marsh at the bottom of the hill.
(Only mention of the marsh in the programme, which on the graphic was
placed away from the hill in the Dadlington direction, nowhere near
the fighting.)
If Stanley was going to join Richard then now was the moment to do
it. If he attcked as Norfolkýs men moved off the hill, Henryýs men
would be crushed in between. But Stanley and Norfolk stood still, and
the moment was lost.
Henry wisely decided to give command of the bulk of his army to the
experienced Earl of Oxford. The force was supported by two smaller
battle groups on each flank. Not being a soldier Henry stayed some
way behind Oxford with a small bodyguard of some 70 knights and
infantry men.
Now certain he had been betrayed by Stanley and enraged by Norfolkýs
indecision Richard ( in full black armour and helmeted of course)
gave the order for Stanleyýs son to be killed. But it was never
carried out.
Henryýs troops moved along the bottom of the hill and took up their
positions in front of Richardýs vanguards and the two armies stood
hurling abuse at each other.
The uneasy standoff came to an end when both sides unleashed a
massive volley of arrows. (in the position as illustrated Henryýs
army would have been totally destroyed by this volley! Always a
problem placing the battle on and around the hill!)
Men at arms tossed grenades or petards that exploded in balls of fire
and soldiers ran from the battlefield engulfed in flame.
Norfolk gave his troops the order to move down the hill. They
advanced behind a spiky hedge of bills and pole arms. Norfolk slammed
into Oxfordýs front line. There was an almighty clash of metal. Both
sides lunged forwards with their bills skewering each other in the
process.
A bloody hand to hand contest began.
...here are descriptions of limbs being hacked off etc.
But Norfolkýs men lacked the stomach to fight for their king and
Henryýs army held fast. As the fighting intensifed Norfolkýs attack
began to wither and some of his men fled the battle. Oxford pushed
home this advantage and forced the remainder of the kingýs vanguard
back up the hill. (you try it mate in full armour up a steep incline!)
Richard watched as his men began to struggle against the Tudor army.
Now supported by cavalry, Oxfordýs men began to surge forward (UP
THE HILL??)
To stem this advance Richard ordered his reserve to join the battle.
However they refused to move. The king was running out of options.
A Spanish nobleman in his service begged him ýSire, take all steps to
put your person in safety. In the face of such manifest treason you
cannot hope to win the battle today.ý
But Henry was unaware the tide was turning in his favour. (Henry in
silver armour of course) and believeng he still needed Stanleyýs
troops decided to make a personal appeal to his father-in-law.
Richard caught sight of the Tudor standard moving towards the Stanley
position and a gap opened up in the battle below giving Richard a
clear run at his opponent. He knew if he could get to Henry victory
could still be his.
As his orders were carried by the call of trumpets the king slammed
shut his visor and launched himself down Ambien Hill at the head of
800 of his household cavalry. Three lions on his shirt Richard
slammed into Henryýs bodyguard.
You can imagine Henry paralyzed with fear as he watched the king cut
his way towards him. With one almighty blow Richard killed Henryýs
standard bearer and was only inches away from him when he was carried
away by the sudden intervention of Lord Stanley who ploughed into
Richard with over a thousand knights.
The king was surrounded but refused to yield. Like a madman he roared
in defiance ýTreason! Treason! This day I will die as king or win!ý
Against impossible odds (800 to 1000 impossible?) most of his knights
were cut down and slaughtered. Richard fought on alone lashing out at
his opponents. A savage blow finally silenced the king. In an instant
he was set upon by Henryýs (not Stanleyýs?) men. No mercy was shown.
Apart from a few old scores that needed settling in blood Richardýs
death brought the fighting to a close. The battle had only lasted for
two hours. remarkably for such a decisive encounter only a thousand
men were killed.
(Here we see the stone in the paddock at the bottom of the curent
incorrect Ambien Hill site)
This memorial stone marks the spot where Richard fell (oh no it
doesnýt!)
He was the last English king to die in battle and with his death the
royal bloodline of York finally came to an end (well no it didnýt by
a long way!)
Richard may not have been the greatest king but he had been a valiant
soldier and deserved better than to be betrayed in such a cruel way
(as well as with ridiculous fictional programmes like this one?)
Stanley cemented his alliance with the new order by personally
placing the crown on his step-sonýs head (even though he later wrote
he didnýt meet Henry until the day after the battle and it was
William Stanley who intervened on Henryýs behalf?)
After the battle Richardýs battered and naked body was paraded
through the streets of Leicester. His remains were later exhumed and
unceremoniously thrown into the river Soar. (donýt think so!)
Henry Tudor went on to marry Elizabeth of York to attempt to unify
the two families.
His coronation as Henry 7th marked the birth of a new ruling dynasty
that was to change the face of Europe (and how! with blood and
religious turmoil, presecution, torture, executions and murders. just
for starters! so much better than what went before, wasnýt it?)
credit for writing this nonsense goes to one Peter Strachen and
presnter Crispin Swayne.
I now have no intention of watching any of the other programmes in
the series!
Richard liveth yet
Re: Bosworth fairy tale!
2008-11-13 23:12:19
"Freakishly well-developed"?
ý
Good grief. Way to invent NEW deformities.
--- On Thu, 11/13/08, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
Subject: Bosworth fairy tale!
To: "RichardIIISociety forum" <>
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 1:09 PM
The following is a transcript of the programme broadcast last week in
the UK.
Italics are mine of course.
On Discovery Channel (shame on them!)
GREAT BATTLES
Bosworth Field 1485
This programme supposedly on Bosworth was shown last week in the UK,
though made in 2000.
The programme lacked factual accuracy in all areas, the narrative
very inventive at times, included quotes as if the writers had been
sitting there with pen and paper poised, you know, just like
Shakespeare! There were no sources quoted. There were also some new
ýfactsý or rather ýfactsý Iýve never heard before. Enlighten me if
any of you have heard them. You will know which ones I refer to.
Theyýýll jump out and slap you in the face! In places the story
descends into Alison Weir territory. If the facts donýt fit what the
writers want to say, they make up new ones!
Up to the battle I have included the contenious parts, all the points
I had trouble with. Which means that most of the programme is here....
The real fairy story begins with the narrative of the battle itself.
ýThe Wars of the Roses were setttled in 1485 when Richard of York
came face to face with Henry Tudorýs Lancastrian forces at Bosworth.
Richard is one of the most controversial figures in English history,
and his accession to the throne is surrounded by mystery and intrigue.
Richard was a deeply religious man but he was also a formidable
soldier, devoting long hours to sword practice to the point where the
muscles in his right arm became freakishly well developed.
But as he manouevred his way to the throne he left behind him a trail
of blood revealing a ruthless streak.
After the death of Edward IV there was a constant threat of
assassination, so much so that Richard had his jackets lined with
shards of steel.
He saw treason everywhere.
The princes he had placed in the tower supposedly for their own
protection, but a series of bloody events soon confirmed his personal
ambitions...
After Buckinghamýs rebellion royalty began to lose its majesty and
the mood in the country turned against the king.
Lord Stanley with his personal army would ultimately decide who would
be king.
Henry Tudor landed in his Welsh homeland where his countrymen doubled
the size of his army to 6000, while the king had mustered over 10,000...
In the 2 years of his reign Richard had become alienated from the
country and even some of his closest supporters were questioning
their allegiance.
Richard threatened his knights and nobles with the loss of their
goods, lands and lives if they didnýt rally to his side.
Richard doubted Lord Stanley with his power base in Lancashire so
sent for him to join him at his Nottingham headquarters, but the lord
said he was ill and could not come. This was a poor excuse and
deepened Richardýs suspicions.
So he took out an insurance policy and took Stanleyýs son hostage.
When the young lord tried to escape Richardýs suspicions were further
aroused. Under interrogation he admitted several of his family were
conspiring with Henry but he swore that his father was loyal.
With probably more than a little encouragement from Richard he wrote
to his father urging him to join the king with all his forces.
When he received the letter it is rumoured Stanley senior remarked
ýNo worry. I have plenty other sons.ý
Despite all this Richard spent the night before the battle camped
here (presenter standing on top of Ambien) on Ambien Hill confident
of victory the following day.
Henry on the other hand was a very worried man. Heýd met secretly
with Stanley several times in the days leading up to the battle, but
the Lancastrian had reputedly decided to give him a definitive pledge
of support.
It is rumoured the sound of hysterical laughter and violent sobbing
came from Henryýs tent the night before the battle.
The following morning neither Richard nor Henry was sure who Stanley
would fight with.
As Richard dressed for battle (black armour naturally!)he got the
news that small numbers of his men had deserted to Henryýs camp
during the night. However he was unaware there was more serious
treachery afoot.
The Duke of Norfolk, his most senior officer, had woken to find an
ominous note pinned to his tent. It read ýJockey fo Norfolk make not
so bold for Dickon thy master is bought and sold.ý
The king assembled his army in three divisions. he placed Norfolk in
command of the vanguard, and placed another in reserve at the rear.
(Here the pictures showed a graphic of Ambien Hill with the armies on
the top of the hill, all clumped together at the end where Richardýs
standard now flies)
Richard placed himself with his household cavalry, the cream of his
army, right in the middle.
They had already been in position for two hours before Tudorýs army
appeared.
Stanley deployed his own army off to one side of the main battlefield.
Clearly hedging his bets he appeared to be supporting Richard but was
also well placed to attack the kingýs right flank.
As Henryýs army made itýs final approach it made a detour to the
north to avoid a marsh at the bottom of the hill.
(Only mention of the marsh in the programme, which on the graphic was
placed away from the hill in the Dadlington direction, nowhere near
the fighting.)
If Stanley was going to join Richard then now was the moment to do
it. If he attcked as Norfolkýs men moved off the hill, Henryýs men
would be crushed in between. But Stanley and Norfolk stood still, and
the moment was lost.
Henry wisely decided to give command of the bulk of his army to the
experienced Earl of Oxford. The force was supported by two smaller
battle groups on each flank. Not being a soldier Henry stayed some
way behind Oxford with a small bodyguard of some 70 knights and
infantry men.
Now certain he had been betrayed by Stanley and enraged by Norfolkýs
indecision Richard ( in full black armour and helmeted of course)
gave the order for Stanleyýs son to be killed. But it was never
carried out.
Henryýs troops moved along the bottom of the hill and took up their
positions in front of Richardýs vanguards and the two armies stood
hurling abuse at each other.
The uneasy standoff came to an end when both sides unleashed a
massive volley of arrows. (in the position as illustrated Henryýs
army would have been totally destroyed by this volley! Always a
problem placing the battle on and around the hill!)
Men at arms tossed grenades or petards that exploded in balls of fire
and soldiers ran from the battlefield engulfed in flame.
Norfolk gave his troops the order to move down the hill. They
advanced behind a spiky hedge of bills and pole arms. Norfolk slammed
into Oxfordýs front line. There was an almighty clash of metal. Both
sides lunged forwards with their bills skewering each other in the
process.
A bloody hand to hand contest began.
...here are descriptions of limbs being hacked off etc.
But Norfolkýs men lacked the stomach to fight for their king and
Henryýs army held fast. As the fighting intensifed Norfolkýs attack
began to wither and some of his men fled the battle. Oxford pushed
home this advantage and forced the remainder of the kingýs vanguard
back up the hill. (you try it mate in full armour up a steep incline!)
Richard watched as his men began to struggle against the Tudor army.
Now supported by cavalry, Oxfordýs men began to surge forward (UP
THE HILL??)
To stem this advance Richard ordered his reserve to join the battle.
However they refused to move. The king was running out of options.
A Spanish nobleman in his service begged him ýSire, take all steps to
put your person in safety. In the face of such manifest treason you
cannot hope to win the battle today.ý
But Henry was unaware the tide was turning in his favour. (Henry in
silver armour of course) and believeng he still needed Stanleyýs
troops decided to make a personal appeal to his father-in-law.
Richard caught sight of the Tudor standard moving towards the Stanley
position and a gap opened up in the battle below giving Richard a
clear run at his opponent. He knew if he could get to Henry victory
could still be his.
As his orders were carried by the call of trumpets the king slammed
shut his visor and launched himself down Ambien Hill at the head of
800 of his household cavalry. Three lions on his shirt Richard
slammed into Henryýs bodyguard.
You can imagine Henry paralyzed with fear as he watched the king cut
his way towards him. With one almighty blow Richard killed Henryýs
standard bearer and was only inches away from him when he was carried
away by the sudden intervention of Lord Stanley who ploughed into
Richard with over a thousand knights.
The king was surrounded but refused to yield. Like a madman he roared
in defiance ýTreason! Treason! This day I will die as king or win!ý
Against impossible odds (800 to 1000 impossible?) most of his knights
were cut down and slaughtered. Richard fought on alone lashing out at
his opponents. A savage blow finally silenced the king. In an instant
he was set upon by Henryýs (not Stanleyýs?) men. No mercy was shown.
Apart from a few old scores that needed settling in blood Richardýs
death brought the fighting to a close. The battle had only lasted for
two hours. remarkably for such a decisive encounter only a thousand
men were killed.
(Here we see the stone in the paddock at the bottom of the curent
incorrect Ambien Hill site)
This memorial stone marks the spot where Richard fell (oh no it
doesnýt!)
He was the last English king to die in battle and with his death the
royal bloodline of York finally came to an end (well no it didnýt by
a long way!)
Richard may not have been the greatest king but he had been a valiant
soldier and deserved better than to be betrayed in such a cruel way
(as well as with ridiculous fictional programmes like this one?)
Stanley cemented his alliance with the new order by personally
placing the crown on his step-sonýs head (even though he later wrote
he didnýt meet Henry until the day after the battle and it was
William Stanley who intervened on Henryýs behalf?)
After the battle Richardýs battered and naked body was paraded
through the streets of Leicester. His remains were later exhumed and
unceremoniously thrown into the river Soar. (donýt think so!)
Henry Tudor went on to marry Elizabeth of York to attempt to unify
the two families.
His coronation as Henry 7th marked the birth of a new ruling dynasty
that was to change the face of Europe (and how! with blood and
religious turmoil, presecution, torture, executions and murders. just
for starters! so much better than what went before, wasnýt it?)
credit for writing this nonsense goes to one Peter Strachen and
presnter Crispin Swayne.
I now have no intention of watching any of the other programmes in
the series!
Richard liveth yet
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
ý
Good grief. Way to invent NEW deformities.
--- On Thu, 11/13/08, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
Subject: Bosworth fairy tale!
To: "RichardIIISociety forum" <>
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 1:09 PM
The following is a transcript of the programme broadcast last week in
the UK.
Italics are mine of course.
On Discovery Channel (shame on them!)
GREAT BATTLES
Bosworth Field 1485
This programme supposedly on Bosworth was shown last week in the UK,
though made in 2000.
The programme lacked factual accuracy in all areas, the narrative
very inventive at times, included quotes as if the writers had been
sitting there with pen and paper poised, you know, just like
Shakespeare! There were no sources quoted. There were also some new
ýfactsý or rather ýfactsý Iýve never heard before. Enlighten me if
any of you have heard them. You will know which ones I refer to.
Theyýýll jump out and slap you in the face! In places the story
descends into Alison Weir territory. If the facts donýt fit what the
writers want to say, they make up new ones!
Up to the battle I have included the contenious parts, all the points
I had trouble with. Which means that most of the programme is here....
The real fairy story begins with the narrative of the battle itself.
ýThe Wars of the Roses were setttled in 1485 when Richard of York
came face to face with Henry Tudorýs Lancastrian forces at Bosworth.
Richard is one of the most controversial figures in English history,
and his accession to the throne is surrounded by mystery and intrigue.
Richard was a deeply religious man but he was also a formidable
soldier, devoting long hours to sword practice to the point where the
muscles in his right arm became freakishly well developed.
But as he manouevred his way to the throne he left behind him a trail
of blood revealing a ruthless streak.
After the death of Edward IV there was a constant threat of
assassination, so much so that Richard had his jackets lined with
shards of steel.
He saw treason everywhere.
The princes he had placed in the tower supposedly for their own
protection, but a series of bloody events soon confirmed his personal
ambitions...
After Buckinghamýs rebellion royalty began to lose its majesty and
the mood in the country turned against the king.
Lord Stanley with his personal army would ultimately decide who would
be king.
Henry Tudor landed in his Welsh homeland where his countrymen doubled
the size of his army to 6000, while the king had mustered over 10,000...
In the 2 years of his reign Richard had become alienated from the
country and even some of his closest supporters were questioning
their allegiance.
Richard threatened his knights and nobles with the loss of their
goods, lands and lives if they didnýt rally to his side.
Richard doubted Lord Stanley with his power base in Lancashire so
sent for him to join him at his Nottingham headquarters, but the lord
said he was ill and could not come. This was a poor excuse and
deepened Richardýs suspicions.
So he took out an insurance policy and took Stanleyýs son hostage.
When the young lord tried to escape Richardýs suspicions were further
aroused. Under interrogation he admitted several of his family were
conspiring with Henry but he swore that his father was loyal.
With probably more than a little encouragement from Richard he wrote
to his father urging him to join the king with all his forces.
When he received the letter it is rumoured Stanley senior remarked
ýNo worry. I have plenty other sons.ý
Despite all this Richard spent the night before the battle camped
here (presenter standing on top of Ambien) on Ambien Hill confident
of victory the following day.
Henry on the other hand was a very worried man. Heýd met secretly
with Stanley several times in the days leading up to the battle, but
the Lancastrian had reputedly decided to give him a definitive pledge
of support.
It is rumoured the sound of hysterical laughter and violent sobbing
came from Henryýs tent the night before the battle.
The following morning neither Richard nor Henry was sure who Stanley
would fight with.
As Richard dressed for battle (black armour naturally!)he got the
news that small numbers of his men had deserted to Henryýs camp
during the night. However he was unaware there was more serious
treachery afoot.
The Duke of Norfolk, his most senior officer, had woken to find an
ominous note pinned to his tent. It read ýJockey fo Norfolk make not
so bold for Dickon thy master is bought and sold.ý
The king assembled his army in three divisions. he placed Norfolk in
command of the vanguard, and placed another in reserve at the rear.
(Here the pictures showed a graphic of Ambien Hill with the armies on
the top of the hill, all clumped together at the end where Richardýs
standard now flies)
Richard placed himself with his household cavalry, the cream of his
army, right in the middle.
They had already been in position for two hours before Tudorýs army
appeared.
Stanley deployed his own army off to one side of the main battlefield.
Clearly hedging his bets he appeared to be supporting Richard but was
also well placed to attack the kingýs right flank.
As Henryýs army made itýs final approach it made a detour to the
north to avoid a marsh at the bottom of the hill.
(Only mention of the marsh in the programme, which on the graphic was
placed away from the hill in the Dadlington direction, nowhere near
the fighting.)
If Stanley was going to join Richard then now was the moment to do
it. If he attcked as Norfolkýs men moved off the hill, Henryýs men
would be crushed in between. But Stanley and Norfolk stood still, and
the moment was lost.
Henry wisely decided to give command of the bulk of his army to the
experienced Earl of Oxford. The force was supported by two smaller
battle groups on each flank. Not being a soldier Henry stayed some
way behind Oxford with a small bodyguard of some 70 knights and
infantry men.
Now certain he had been betrayed by Stanley and enraged by Norfolkýs
indecision Richard ( in full black armour and helmeted of course)
gave the order for Stanleyýs son to be killed. But it was never
carried out.
Henryýs troops moved along the bottom of the hill and took up their
positions in front of Richardýs vanguards and the two armies stood
hurling abuse at each other.
The uneasy standoff came to an end when both sides unleashed a
massive volley of arrows. (in the position as illustrated Henryýs
army would have been totally destroyed by this volley! Always a
problem placing the battle on and around the hill!)
Men at arms tossed grenades or petards that exploded in balls of fire
and soldiers ran from the battlefield engulfed in flame.
Norfolk gave his troops the order to move down the hill. They
advanced behind a spiky hedge of bills and pole arms. Norfolk slammed
into Oxfordýs front line. There was an almighty clash of metal. Both
sides lunged forwards with their bills skewering each other in the
process.
A bloody hand to hand contest began.
...here are descriptions of limbs being hacked off etc.
But Norfolkýs men lacked the stomach to fight for their king and
Henryýs army held fast. As the fighting intensifed Norfolkýs attack
began to wither and some of his men fled the battle. Oxford pushed
home this advantage and forced the remainder of the kingýs vanguard
back up the hill. (you try it mate in full armour up a steep incline!)
Richard watched as his men began to struggle against the Tudor army.
Now supported by cavalry, Oxfordýs men began to surge forward (UP
THE HILL??)
To stem this advance Richard ordered his reserve to join the battle.
However they refused to move. The king was running out of options.
A Spanish nobleman in his service begged him ýSire, take all steps to
put your person in safety. In the face of such manifest treason you
cannot hope to win the battle today.ý
But Henry was unaware the tide was turning in his favour. (Henry in
silver armour of course) and believeng he still needed Stanleyýs
troops decided to make a personal appeal to his father-in-law.
Richard caught sight of the Tudor standard moving towards the Stanley
position and a gap opened up in the battle below giving Richard a
clear run at his opponent. He knew if he could get to Henry victory
could still be his.
As his orders were carried by the call of trumpets the king slammed
shut his visor and launched himself down Ambien Hill at the head of
800 of his household cavalry. Three lions on his shirt Richard
slammed into Henryýs bodyguard.
You can imagine Henry paralyzed with fear as he watched the king cut
his way towards him. With one almighty blow Richard killed Henryýs
standard bearer and was only inches away from him when he was carried
away by the sudden intervention of Lord Stanley who ploughed into
Richard with over a thousand knights.
The king was surrounded but refused to yield. Like a madman he roared
in defiance ýTreason! Treason! This day I will die as king or win!ý
Against impossible odds (800 to 1000 impossible?) most of his knights
were cut down and slaughtered. Richard fought on alone lashing out at
his opponents. A savage blow finally silenced the king. In an instant
he was set upon by Henryýs (not Stanleyýs?) men. No mercy was shown.
Apart from a few old scores that needed settling in blood Richardýs
death brought the fighting to a close. The battle had only lasted for
two hours. remarkably for such a decisive encounter only a thousand
men were killed.
(Here we see the stone in the paddock at the bottom of the curent
incorrect Ambien Hill site)
This memorial stone marks the spot where Richard fell (oh no it
doesnýt!)
He was the last English king to die in battle and with his death the
royal bloodline of York finally came to an end (well no it didnýt by
a long way!)
Richard may not have been the greatest king but he had been a valiant
soldier and deserved better than to be betrayed in such a cruel way
(as well as with ridiculous fictional programmes like this one?)
Stanley cemented his alliance with the new order by personally
placing the crown on his step-sonýs head (even though he later wrote
he didnýt meet Henry until the day after the battle and it was
William Stanley who intervened on Henryýs behalf?)
After the battle Richardýs battered and naked body was paraded
through the streets of Leicester. His remains were later exhumed and
unceremoniously thrown into the river Soar. (donýt think so!)
Henry Tudor went on to marry Elizabeth of York to attempt to unify
the two families.
His coronation as Henry 7th marked the birth of a new ruling dynasty
that was to change the face of Europe (and how! with blood and
religious turmoil, presecution, torture, executions and murders. just
for starters! so much better than what went before, wasnýt it?)
credit for writing this nonsense goes to one Peter Strachen and
presnter Crispin Swayne.
I now have no intention of watching any of the other programmes in
the series!
Richard liveth yet
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Bosworth fairy tale!
2008-11-14 08:47:52
--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
>
> The following is a transcript of the programme broadcast last week in
> the UK.
>
>
>Thanks Paul - all I can say is oh my god - however
"> *****It is rumoured the sound of hysterical laughter and violent sobbing
> came from Henry's tent the night before the battle.*****
Admittedly I have never heard this one before but it rings true......Henry throwing a wobbly
before battle.... ;0)
Eileen
>
The following morning neither Richard nor Henry was sure who Stanley
> would fight with.
>
> As Richard dressed for battle (black armour naturally!)he got the
> news that small numbers of his men had deserted to Henry's camp
> during the night. However he was unaware there was more serious
> treachery afoot.
>
> The Duke of Norfolk, his most senior officer, had woken to find an
> ominous note pinned to his tent. It read "Jockey fo Norfolk make not
> so bold for Dickon thy master is bought and sold."
>
> The king assembled his army in three divisions. he placed Norfolk in
> command of the vanguard, and placed another in reserve at the rear.
>
> (Here the pictures showed a graphic of Ambien Hill with the armies on
> the top of the hill, all clumped together at the end where Richard's
> standard now flies)
>
> Richard placed himself with his household cavalry, the cream of his
> army, right in the middle.
>
> They had already been in position for two hours before Tudor's army
> appeared.
>
> Stanley deployed his own army off to one side of the main battlefield.
> Clearly hedging his bets he appeared to be supporting Richard but was
> also well placed to attack the king's right flank.
>
> As Henry's army made it's final approach it made a detour to the
> north to avoid a marsh at the bottom of the hill.
> (Only mention of the marsh in the programme, which on the graphic was
> placed away from the hill in the Dadlington direction, nowhere near
> the fighting.)
> If Stanley was going to join Richard then now was the moment to do
> it. If he attcked as Norfolk's men moved off the hill, Henry's men
> would be crushed in between. But Stanley and Norfolk stood still, and
> the moment was lost.
>
> Henry wisely decided to give command of the bulk of his army to the
> experienced Earl of Oxford. The force was supported by two smaller
> battle groups on each flank. Not being a soldier Henry stayed some
> way behind Oxford with a small bodyguard of some 70 knights and
> infantry men.
>
> Now certain he had been betrayed by Stanley and enraged by Norfolk's
> indecision Richard ( in full black armour and helmeted of course)
> gave the order for Stanley's son to be killed. But it was never
> carried out.
>
> Henry's troops moved along the bottom of the hill and took up their
> positions in front of Richard's vanguards and the two armies stood
> hurling abuse at each other.
>
> The uneasy standoff came to an end when both sides unleashed a
> massive volley of arrows. (in the position as illustrated Henry's
> army would have been totally destroyed by this volley! Always a
> problem placing the battle on and around the hill!)
> Men at arms tossed grenades or petards that exploded in balls of fire
> and soldiers ran from the battlefield engulfed in flame.
>
> Norfolk gave his troops the order to move down the hill. They
> advanced behind a spiky hedge of bills and pole arms. Norfolk slammed
> into Oxford's front line. There was an almighty clash of metal. Both
> sides lunged forwards with their bills skewering each other in the
> process.
> A bloody hand to hand contest began.
>
> ...here are descriptions of limbs being hacked off etc.
>
> But Norfolk's men lacked the stomach to fight for their king and
> Henry's army held fast. As the fighting intensifed Norfolk's attack
> began to wither and some of his men fled the battle. Oxford pushed
> home this advantage and forced the remainder of the king's vanguard
> back up the hill. (you try it mate in full armour up a steep incline!)
>
> Richard watched as his men began to struggle against the Tudor army.
> Now supported by cavalry, Oxford's men began to surge forward (UP
> THE HILL??)
>
> To stem this advance Richard ordered his reserve to join the battle.
> However they refused to move. The king was running out of options.
>
> A Spanish nobleman in his service begged him "Sire, take all steps to
> put your person in safety. In the face of such manifest treason you
> cannot hope to win the battle today."
>
> But Henry was unaware the tide was turning in his favour. (Henry in
> silver armour of course) and believeng he still needed Stanley's
> troops decided to make a personal appeal to his father-in-law.
> Richard caught sight of the Tudor standard moving towards the Stanley
> position and a gap opened up in the battle below giving Richard a
> clear run at his opponent. He knew if he could get to Henry victory
> could still be his.
>
> As his orders were carried by the call of trumpets the king slammed
> shut his visor and launched himself down Ambien Hill at the head of
> 800 of his household cavalry. Three lions on his shirt Richard
> slammed into Henry's bodyguard.
>
> You can imagine Henry paralyzed with fear as he watched the king cut
> his way towards him. With one almighty blow Richard killed Henry's
> standard bearer and was only inches away from him when he was carried
> away by the sudden intervention of Lord Stanley who ploughed into
> Richard with over a thousand knights.
>
> The king was surrounded but refused to yield. Like a madman he roared
> in defiance "Treason! Treason! This day I will die as king or win!"
> Against impossible odds (800 to 1000 impossible?) most of his knights
> were cut down and slaughtered. Richard fought on alone lashing out at
> his opponents. A savage blow finally silenced the king. In an instant
> he was set upon by Henry's (not Stanley's?) men. No mercy was shown.
>
> Apart from a few old scores that needed settling in blood Richard's
> death brought the fighting to a close. The battle had only lasted for
> two hours. remarkably for such a decisive encounter only a thousand
> men were killed.
>
> (Here we see the stone in the paddock at the bottom of the curent
> incorrect Ambien Hill site)
> This memorial stone marks the spot where Richard fell (oh no it
> doesn't!)
>
> He was the last English king to die in battle and with his death the
> royal bloodline of York finally came to an end (well no it didn't by
> a long way!)
>
> Richard may not have been the greatest king but he had been a valiant
> soldier and deserved better than to be betrayed in such a cruel way
> (as well as with ridiculous fictional programmes like this one?)
>
> Stanley cemented his alliance with the new order by personally
> placing the crown on his step-son's head (even though he later wrote
> he didn't meet Henry until the day after the battle and it was
> William Stanley who intervened on Henry's behalf?)
>
> After the battle Richard's battered and naked body was paraded
> through the streets of Leicester. His remains were later exhumed and
> unceremoniously thrown into the river Soar. (don't think so!)
>
> Henry Tudor went on to marry Elizabeth of York to attempt to unify
> the two families.
>
> His coronation as Henry 7th marked the birth of a new ruling dynasty
> that was to change the face of Europe (and how! with blood and
> religious turmoil, presecution, torture, executions and murders. just
> for starters! so much better than what went before, wasn't it?)
>
> credit for writing this nonsense goes to one Peter Strachen and
> presnter Crispin Swayne.
>
> I now have no intention of watching any of the other programmes in
> the series!
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The following is a transcript of the programme broadcast last week in
> the UK.
>
>
>Thanks Paul - all I can say is oh my god - however
"> *****It is rumoured the sound of hysterical laughter and violent sobbing
> came from Henry's tent the night before the battle.*****
Admittedly I have never heard this one before but it rings true......Henry throwing a wobbly
before battle.... ;0)
Eileen
>
The following morning neither Richard nor Henry was sure who Stanley
> would fight with.
>
> As Richard dressed for battle (black armour naturally!)he got the
> news that small numbers of his men had deserted to Henry's camp
> during the night. However he was unaware there was more serious
> treachery afoot.
>
> The Duke of Norfolk, his most senior officer, had woken to find an
> ominous note pinned to his tent. It read "Jockey fo Norfolk make not
> so bold for Dickon thy master is bought and sold."
>
> The king assembled his army in three divisions. he placed Norfolk in
> command of the vanguard, and placed another in reserve at the rear.
>
> (Here the pictures showed a graphic of Ambien Hill with the armies on
> the top of the hill, all clumped together at the end where Richard's
> standard now flies)
>
> Richard placed himself with his household cavalry, the cream of his
> army, right in the middle.
>
> They had already been in position for two hours before Tudor's army
> appeared.
>
> Stanley deployed his own army off to one side of the main battlefield.
> Clearly hedging his bets he appeared to be supporting Richard but was
> also well placed to attack the king's right flank.
>
> As Henry's army made it's final approach it made a detour to the
> north to avoid a marsh at the bottom of the hill.
> (Only mention of the marsh in the programme, which on the graphic was
> placed away from the hill in the Dadlington direction, nowhere near
> the fighting.)
> If Stanley was going to join Richard then now was the moment to do
> it. If he attcked as Norfolk's men moved off the hill, Henry's men
> would be crushed in between. But Stanley and Norfolk stood still, and
> the moment was lost.
>
> Henry wisely decided to give command of the bulk of his army to the
> experienced Earl of Oxford. The force was supported by two smaller
> battle groups on each flank. Not being a soldier Henry stayed some
> way behind Oxford with a small bodyguard of some 70 knights and
> infantry men.
>
> Now certain he had been betrayed by Stanley and enraged by Norfolk's
> indecision Richard ( in full black armour and helmeted of course)
> gave the order for Stanley's son to be killed. But it was never
> carried out.
>
> Henry's troops moved along the bottom of the hill and took up their
> positions in front of Richard's vanguards and the two armies stood
> hurling abuse at each other.
>
> The uneasy standoff came to an end when both sides unleashed a
> massive volley of arrows. (in the position as illustrated Henry's
> army would have been totally destroyed by this volley! Always a
> problem placing the battle on and around the hill!)
> Men at arms tossed grenades or petards that exploded in balls of fire
> and soldiers ran from the battlefield engulfed in flame.
>
> Norfolk gave his troops the order to move down the hill. They
> advanced behind a spiky hedge of bills and pole arms. Norfolk slammed
> into Oxford's front line. There was an almighty clash of metal. Both
> sides lunged forwards with their bills skewering each other in the
> process.
> A bloody hand to hand contest began.
>
> ...here are descriptions of limbs being hacked off etc.
>
> But Norfolk's men lacked the stomach to fight for their king and
> Henry's army held fast. As the fighting intensifed Norfolk's attack
> began to wither and some of his men fled the battle. Oxford pushed
> home this advantage and forced the remainder of the king's vanguard
> back up the hill. (you try it mate in full armour up a steep incline!)
>
> Richard watched as his men began to struggle against the Tudor army.
> Now supported by cavalry, Oxford's men began to surge forward (UP
> THE HILL??)
>
> To stem this advance Richard ordered his reserve to join the battle.
> However they refused to move. The king was running out of options.
>
> A Spanish nobleman in his service begged him "Sire, take all steps to
> put your person in safety. In the face of such manifest treason you
> cannot hope to win the battle today."
>
> But Henry was unaware the tide was turning in his favour. (Henry in
> silver armour of course) and believeng he still needed Stanley's
> troops decided to make a personal appeal to his father-in-law.
> Richard caught sight of the Tudor standard moving towards the Stanley
> position and a gap opened up in the battle below giving Richard a
> clear run at his opponent. He knew if he could get to Henry victory
> could still be his.
>
> As his orders were carried by the call of trumpets the king slammed
> shut his visor and launched himself down Ambien Hill at the head of
> 800 of his household cavalry. Three lions on his shirt Richard
> slammed into Henry's bodyguard.
>
> You can imagine Henry paralyzed with fear as he watched the king cut
> his way towards him. With one almighty blow Richard killed Henry's
> standard bearer and was only inches away from him when he was carried
> away by the sudden intervention of Lord Stanley who ploughed into
> Richard with over a thousand knights.
>
> The king was surrounded but refused to yield. Like a madman he roared
> in defiance "Treason! Treason! This day I will die as king or win!"
> Against impossible odds (800 to 1000 impossible?) most of his knights
> were cut down and slaughtered. Richard fought on alone lashing out at
> his opponents. A savage blow finally silenced the king. In an instant
> he was set upon by Henry's (not Stanley's?) men. No mercy was shown.
>
> Apart from a few old scores that needed settling in blood Richard's
> death brought the fighting to a close. The battle had only lasted for
> two hours. remarkably for such a decisive encounter only a thousand
> men were killed.
>
> (Here we see the stone in the paddock at the bottom of the curent
> incorrect Ambien Hill site)
> This memorial stone marks the spot where Richard fell (oh no it
> doesn't!)
>
> He was the last English king to die in battle and with his death the
> royal bloodline of York finally came to an end (well no it didn't by
> a long way!)
>
> Richard may not have been the greatest king but he had been a valiant
> soldier and deserved better than to be betrayed in such a cruel way
> (as well as with ridiculous fictional programmes like this one?)
>
> Stanley cemented his alliance with the new order by personally
> placing the crown on his step-son's head (even though he later wrote
> he didn't meet Henry until the day after the battle and it was
> William Stanley who intervened on Henry's behalf?)
>
> After the battle Richard's battered and naked body was paraded
> through the streets of Leicester. His remains were later exhumed and
> unceremoniously thrown into the river Soar. (don't think so!)
>
> Henry Tudor went on to marry Elizabeth of York to attempt to unify
> the two families.
>
> His coronation as Henry 7th marked the birth of a new ruling dynasty
> that was to change the face of Europe (and how! with blood and
> religious turmoil, presecution, torture, executions and murders. just
> for starters! so much better than what went before, wasn't it?)
>
> credit for writing this nonsense goes to one Peter Strachen and
> presnter Crispin Swayne.
>
> I now have no intention of watching any of the other programmes in
> the series!
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bosworth fairy tale!
2008-11-14 11:04:16
> --- On Thu, 11/13/08, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> Subject: Bosworth fairy tale!
> To: "RichardIIISociety forum" <>
> Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 1:09 PM <snipped>
>
>>
> After the death of Edward IV there was a constant threat of
> assassination, so much so that Richard had his jackets lined with
> shards of steel.
> He saw treason everywhere.
Never heard this one about the full metal jacket before. OK, there was
such a thing as a jack of plates, and I dare say every well equipped
soldier had one, but this implies Richard wore his all the time. Doubt
it, seriously doubt it...
All kings saw treason everywhere - check out Edward IV's agenda in
1468, par example.
Brian W
>
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> Subject: Bosworth fairy tale!
> To: "RichardIIISociety forum" <>
> Date: Thursday, November 13, 2008, 1:09 PM <snipped>
>
>>
> After the death of Edward IV there was a constant threat of
> assassination, so much so that Richard had his jackets lined with
> shards of steel.
> He saw treason everywhere.
Never heard this one about the full metal jacket before. OK, there was
such a thing as a jack of plates, and I dare say every well equipped
soldier had one, but this implies Richard wore his all the time. Doubt
it, seriously doubt it...
All kings saw treason everywhere - check out Edward IV's agenda in
1468, par example.
Brian W
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