Fiction Library Update

New acquisitions by the fiction library since last website update of
June 30, 2009:

Books

Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New York: Simon & Schuster,
2009. 581 pp.
The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is summarily plunged
into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man claiming to be the
rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he claims he is, or
is he Margaret of Yorkýs pawn in an elaborate game of political chess?

New acquisitions by the fiction library since last website update of June 30, 2009:

Books

Gregory, Philippa. The White Queen. New York: Touchstone Books, 2009. 432 pps.
The White Queen tells the story of a woman of extraordinary beauty and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly crowned boy king, marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While Elizabeth rises to the demands of her exalted position and fights for the success of her family, her two sons become figures in a mystery that has confounded historians for centuries: the missing princes in the Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.

Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New York: Simon & Schuster, 2009. 581 pp.
The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is summarily plunged into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man claiming to be the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he claims he is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate game of political chess?

Szechtman, Joan This Time. Milford, Ct.: Basset Books, LLC, 2009. 344 pp.
This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard III as he attempts to unravel the mysteries of this century. Not only must Richard acclimate himself to a whole new worldto sometimes comic effecthe must try to undo the damage done to his reputation through 500 years of history.


Gilda
R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)

Never heard Edward IV called boy king before!
Paul

On 9 Sep 2009, at 12:47, Gilda Felt wrote:

> New acquisitions by the fiction library since last website update
> of June 30, 2009:
>
> Books
>
> Gregory, Philippa. The White Queen. New York: Touchstone Books,
> 2009. 432 pps.
> The White Queen tells the story of a woman of extraordinary beauty
> and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly crowned boy king,
> marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While Elizabeth rises
> to the demands of her exalted position and fights for the success
> of her family, her two sons become figures in a mystery that has
> confounded historians for centuries: the missing princes in the
> Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.
>
> Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New York: Simon & Schuster,
> 2009. 581 pp.
> The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is summarily plunged
> into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man claiming to be
> the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he claims he
> is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate game of
> political chess?
>
> Szechtman, Joan This Time. Milford, Ct.: Basset Books, LLC,
> 2009. 344 pp.
> This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard III as he
> attempts to unravel the mysteries of this century. Not only must
> Richard acclimate himself to a whole new worldto sometimes comic
> effecthe must try to undo the damage done to his reputation
> through 500 years of history.
>
>
> Gilda
> R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:

> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
> To:
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 5:24 AM
> Never heard Edward IV called boy king
> before!
> Paul

I was rather surprised at that, too, but since it's easier for me to cut and paste the book's description (especially if I haven't actually read the book,) that's what we ended up with.

Gilda
>
> On 9 Sep 2009, at 12:47, Gilda Felt wrote:
>
> > New acquisitions by the fiction library since last
> website update 
> > of June 30, 2009:
> >
> > Books
> >
> > Gregory, Philippa.   The White
> Queen.   New York: Touchstone Books, 
> > 2009.  432 pps.
> > The White Queen tells the story of a woman of
> extraordinary beauty 
> > and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly
> crowned boy king, 
> > marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While
> Elizabeth rises 
> > to the demands of her exalted position and fights for
> the success 
> > of her family, her two sons become figures in a
> mystery that has 
> > confounded historians for centuries: the missing
> princes in the 
> > Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.
> >
> > Smith, Anne Easter  The King's Grace.  New
> York: Simon & Schuster, 
> > 2009.  581 pp.
> > The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is
> summarily plunged 
> > into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man
> claiming to be 
> > the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he
> claims he 
> > is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate
> game of 
> > political chess?
> >
> > Szechtman, Joan  This
> Time.   Milford, Ct.: Basset Books,
> LLC, 
> > 2009.  344 pp.
> > This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard
> III as he 
> > attempts to unravel     the mysteries
> of this century. Not only must 
> > Richard acclimate himself to a whole
>     new worldto sometimes comic 
> > effecthe must try to undo the damage done
>     to his reputation 
> > through 500 years of history.
> >
> >
> > Gilda
> > R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:[email protected]
>
>
>

e4 was under 21 when he took the crown in the name of the house of york. e4 was not of full age, there for technically unable to "fully" inherit. in his era, he was still a boy. so the term boy-king does fit, even if it seems a bit odd.

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:


From: Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...>
Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
To:
Received: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 10:04 AM


 





--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@sky. com> wrote:

> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@sky. com>
> Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
> To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 5:24 AM
> Never heard Edward IV called boy king
> before!
> Paul

I was rather surprised at that, too, but since it's easier for me to cut and paste the book's description (especially if I haven't actually read the book,) that's what we ended up with.

Gilda
>
> On 9 Sep 2009, at 12:47, Gilda Felt wrote:
>
> > New acquisitions by the fiction library since last
> website update 
> > of June 30, 2009:
> >
> > Books
> >
> > Gregory, Philippa.   The White
> Queen.   New York: Touchstone Books, 
> > 2009.  432 pps.
> > The White Queen tells the story of a woman of
> extraordinary beauty 
> > and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly
> crowned boy king, 
> > marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While
> Elizabeth rises 
> > to the demands of her exalted position and fights for
> the success 
> > of her family, her two sons become figures in a
> mystery that has 
> > confounded historians for centuries: the missing
> princes in the 
> > Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.
> >
> > Smith, Anne Easter  The King's Grace.  New
> York: Simon & Schuster, 
> > 2009.  581 pp.
> > The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is
> summarily plunged 
> > into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man
> claiming to be 
> > the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he
> claims he 
> > is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate
> game of 
> > political chess?
> >
> > Szechtman, Joan  This
> Time.   Milford, Ct.: Basset Books,
> LLC, 
> > 2009.  344 pp.
> > This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard
> III as he 
> > attempts to unravel     the mysteries
> of this century. Not only must 
> > Richard acclimate himself to a whole
>     new worldto sometimes comic 
> > effecthe must try to undo the damage done
>     to his reputation 
> > through 500 years of history.
> >
> >
> > Gilda
> > R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:richardiiisocietyfo rum-fullfeatured @yahoogroups. com
>
>
>

has anyone, heard or read this book










RICHARD III: The Young King To Be


by Josephine Wilkinson
 
there is one review of it by a person from, i believe new jersy.
 
bookfinder.com has it for sale. saying it is due to be published soon.
 
 

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:


From: Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...>
Subject: Fiction Library Update
To: "R3 Society Online Discussion Group" <richard3@...>,
Received: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:47 AM


 



New acquisitions by the fiction library since last website update of June 30, 2009:

Books

Gregory, Philippa. The White Queen. New York: Touchstone Books, 2009. 432 pps.
The White Queen tells the story of a woman of extraordinary beauty and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly crowned boy king, marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While Elizabeth rises to the demands of her exalted position and fights for the success of her family, her two sons become figures in a mystery that has confounded historians for centuries: the missing princes in the Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.

Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New York: Simon & Schuster, 2009. 581 pp.
The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is summarily plunged into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man claiming to be the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he claims he is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate game of political chess?

Szechtman, Joan This Time. Milford, Ct.: Basset Books, LLC, 2009. 344 pp.
This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard III as he attempts to unravel the mysteries of this century. Not only must Richard acclimate himself to a whole new worldto sometimes comic effecthe must try to undo the damage done to his reputation through 500 years of history.

Gilda
R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)

I read one review on Amazon.com dated April 11. This review is quite
positive. The reviewer is from south NJ and is perhaps the same
individual you reference.

Flo (new to the list)


On Sep 9, 2009, at 8:00 PM, fayre rose wrote:

> has anyone, heard or read this book
>
> RICHARD III: The Young King To Be
>
> by Josephine Wilkinson
>
> there is one review of it by a person from, i believe new jersy.
>
> bookfinder.com has it for sale. saying it is due to be published soon.
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:
>
> From: Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...>
> Subject: Fiction Library Update
> To: "R3 Society Online Discussion Group" <richard3@...>,
> Received: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:47 AM
>
>
>
> New acquisitions by the fiction library since last website update of
> June 30, 2009:
>
> Books
>
> Gregory, Philippa. The White Queen. New York: Touchstone Books,
> 2009. 432 pps.
> The White Queen tells the story of a woman of extraordinary beauty
> and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly crowned boy king,
> marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While Elizabeth rises
> to the demands of her exalted position and fights for the success of
> her family, her two sons become figures in a mystery that has
> confounded historians for centuries: the missing princes in the
> Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.
>
> Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New York: Simon & Schuster,
> 2009. 581 pp.
> The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is summarily plunged
> into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man claiming to be
> the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he claims he is,
> or is he Margaret of Yorkýs pawn in an elaborate game of political
> chess?
>
> Szechtman, Joan This Time. Milford, Ct.: Basset Books, LLC, 2009.
> 344 pp.
> This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard III as he
> attempts to unravel the mysteries of this century. Not only must
> Richard acclimate himself to a whole new worldýto sometimes comic
> effectýhe must try to undo the damage done to his reputation through
> 500 years of history.
>
> Gilda
> R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)
>
>
>
>
>

Fayreroze wrote: "e4 was under 21 when he took the crown in the name of the
house of york. e4 was not of full age, there for technically unable to
"fully" inherit. in his era, he was still a boy. so the term boy-king does
fit, even if it seems a bit odd."



Just what was the "age of majority" for people in the 15th century? I have
heard ages from 14 to 21...Was it different for kings than for common
people?



L.M.L.,

Janet

"Janet Trimbath" <forevere@...> wrote: "...Just what was the "age of majority" for people in the 15th century? I have heard ages from 14 to 21...Was it different for kings than for common people?"

Thanks for asking this question, Janet. I had heard much the same. In fact, I thought that was one of the issues surrounding EV's protectorship. I thought that one of the dangers for Richard was that Edward V would reach majority age fairly quickly. The ages I remember being floated were between 14 and 16.

Joan
---
This Time, ISBN-13: 978-0-9824493-0-1
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/

--- On Wed, 9/9/09, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:

> From: fayre rose <fayreroze@...>
> Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
> To:
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 5:00 PM
> has anyone, heard or read this book
>
>
> RICHARD III: The Young King To Be
>
> by Josephine Wilkinson
>  
> there is one review of it by a person from, i believe new
> jersy.
>  
> bookfinder.com has it for sale. saying it is due to be
> published soon.
>  
>  
I've started it. So far, it's okay, though she does tend to go rather far afield for things to talk about. I mean, do I really need to have Richard's astrological sign read?

Gilda

in e4's life timeline, it is interesting to note he begins to really rebel against warwick once he is 22. he is age 22 and one month when marries woodville. he does this while warwick is off negotiating a european marriage. edward is now of full age and king. he has total power and control of his life. does this indicate that some guardians would not relinguish total control until the 21st year is completed? vs the age of majority being reached by the 21st birthdate.
 
children of the era could be married without their consent before age 12/girls and age 14/boys. these children could refute their marriages at this age.
 
care of noble children could be "bought" by other peers. with the children not fully controlling their destiny or estates until age 21.
 
i don't think it really mattered with regards to the common people. for the most part they didn't really have anything to inherit, unless they were from the merchant class.
 
apprenticeships were usually begun at age 14 to be completed by age 21.
 
in our era, children can get their driver's licence at age 16 (canada) or join the military with parental/guardian consent. they can also get married, if underage with a parent/guardian consent.
 
depending upon which province you live in, in canada. the age of majority is 18 or 19. at 18 you can vote in federal elections in british columbia, but you can not go to the pub. the age of majority in b.c. is 19. canadians aged 18 and 19 can go to the usa as adults, but are unable to enter pubs/bars because in some states the legal drinking age is still 21.
 
so, yes there were things minor's could do in the 15thC, but they were still minors under the protectorship of a parent or guardian or even laws.
 
does anyone know if warwick was e4's appointed guardian should something befall his father before e4 came of age? this something, i have not investigated.
 
roslyn

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Janet Trimbath <forevere@...> wrote:


From: Janet Trimbath <forevere@...>
Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
To:
Received: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 8:42 AM


 



Fayreroze wrote: "e4 was under 21 when he took the crown in the name of the
house of york. e4 was not of full age, there for technically unable to
"fully" inherit. in his era, he was still a boy. so the term boy-king does
fit, even if it seems a bit odd."

Just what was the "age of majority" for people in the 15th century? I have
heard ages from 14 to 21...Was it different for kings than for common
people?

L.M.L.,

Janet

regarding richard's astrological chart..while you find it unnecessary. i find it interesting. it should give quite an insight into his personality. the problem with doing his chart, we are only told he was born with a scorpio ascendent/rising sign. the comment is made as some sinister we should be aware of regarding richard.
 
in the 15thC the eagle was the sign of scorpio. in modern astrology one can use the eagle, scorpion or a snake to represent the qualities of a scorpio. the eagle being the highest evolved symbol and snake the lowest.
 
scorpios are very intense people.
it would be nice if somewhere there was an exact record of richard's time of birth. with a scorpio rising his birth would have occured somewhere between 4 and 6am.
 
roslyn

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:


From: Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...>
Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
To:
Received: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 11:10 AM


 





--- On Wed, 9/9/09, fayre rose <fayreroze@yahoo. ca> wrote:

> From: fayre rose <fayreroze@yahoo. ca>
> Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
> To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 5:00 PM
> has anyone, heard or read this book
>
>
> RICHARD III: The Young King To Be
>
> by Josephine Wilkinson
>  
> there is one review of it by a person from, i believe new
> jersy.
>  
> bookfinder.com has it for sale. saying it is due to be
> published soon.
>  
>  
I've started it. So far, it's okay, though she does tend to go rather far afield for things to talk about. I mean, do I really need to have Richard's astrological sign read?

Gilda

Yes. In a word, avoid!
Paul

On 10 Sep 2009, at 01:00, fayre rose wrote:

> has anyone, heard or read this book
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> RICHARD III: The Young King To Be
>
>
> by Josephine Wilkinson
>
> there is one review of it by a person from, i believe new jersy.
>
> bookfinder.com has it for sale. saying it is due to be published soon.
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...>
> Subject: Fiction Library Update
> To: "R3 Society Online Discussion Group" <richard3@...>,
>
> Received: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 7:47 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> New acquisitions by the fiction library since last website update
> of June 30, 2009:
>
> Books
>
> Gregory, Philippa. The White Queen. New York: Touchstone Books,
> 2009. 432 pps.
> The White Queen tells the story of a woman of extraordinary beauty
> and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly crowned boy king,
> marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While Elizabeth rises
> to the demands of her exalted position and fights for the success
> of her family, her two sons become figures in a mystery that has
> confounded historians for centuries: the missing princes in the
> Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.
>
> Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New York: Simon & Schuster,
> 2009. 581 pp.
> The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is summarily plunged
> into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man claiming to be
> the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he claims he
> is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate game of
> political chess?
>
> Szechtman, Joan This Time. Milford, Ct.: Basset Books, LLC, 2009.
> 344 pp.
> This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard III as he
> attempts to unravel the mysteries of this century. Not only must
> Richard acclimate himself to a whole new worldto sometimes comic
> effecthe must try to undo the damage done to his reputation
> through 500 years of history.
>
> Gilda
> R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

Do not understand what you mean by 'of full age'. In the 15th century
there was no official age of adulthood or inheritance, certainly not
21, which is a fairly modern idea for becoming an adult, in fact it
has already down to 18 in some European countries, and 16 in others,
so this certainly id not apply in the 400s. Edward was treated as a
man, and nobody anywhere at the time refers to him as 'boy'. Just
another fiction writer having a flight of fancy about a woman older
than the hunky young man getting him?
Paul



On 10 Sep 2009, at 00:00, fayre rose wrote:

> e4 was under 21 when he took the crown in the name of the house of
> york. e4 was not of full age, there for technically unable to
> "fully" inherit. in his era, he was still a boy. so the term boy-
> king does fit, even if it seems a bit odd.
>
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...>
> Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
> To:
> Received: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 10:04 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/9/09, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@sky. com> wrote:
>
>> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@sky. com>
>> Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update
>> To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 5:24 AM
>> Never heard Edward IV called boy king
>> before!
>> Paul
>
> I was rather surprised at that, too, but since it's easier for me
> to cut and paste the book's description (especially if I haven't
> actually read the book,) that's what we ended up with.
>
> Gilda
>>
>> On 9 Sep 2009, at 12:47, Gilda Felt wrote:
>>
>>> New acquisitions by the fiction library since last
>> website update
>>> of June 30, 2009:
>>>
>>> Books
>>>
>>> Gregory, Philippa. The White
>> Queen. New York: Touchstone Books,
>>> 2009. 432 pps.
>>> The White Queen tells the story of a woman of
>> extraordinary beauty
>>> and ambition who, catching the eye of the newly
>> crowned boy king,
>>> marries him in secret and ascends to royalty. While
>> Elizabeth rises
>>> to the demands of her exalted position and fights for
>> the success
>>> of her family, her two sons become figures in a
>> mystery that has
>>> confounded historians for centuries: the missing
>> princes in the
>>> Tower of London whose fate is still unknown.
>>>
>>> Smith, Anne Easter The King's Grace. New
>> York: Simon & Schuster,
>>> 2009. 581 pp.
>>> The illegitimate daughter of Edward IV, Grace is
>> summarily plunged
>>> into court rivalries and intrigue when a young man
>> claiming to be
>>> the rightful heir to the throne surfaces. Is he who he
>> claims he
>>> is, or is he Margaret of York's pawn in an elaborate
>> game of
>>> political chess?
>>>
>>> Szechtman, Joan This
>> Time. Milford, Ct.: Basset Books,
>> LLC,
>>> 2009. 344 pp.
>>> This Time rediscovers the fifteenth Century Richard
>> III as he
>>> attempts to unravel the mysteries
>> of this century. Not only must
>>> Richard acclimate himself to a whole
>> new worldto sometimes comic
>>> effecthe must try to undo the damage done
>> to his reputation
>>> through 500 years of history.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gilda
>>> R3 Fiction Librarian (American Branch)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard liveth yet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>> mailto:richardiiisocietyfo rum-fullfeatured @yahoogroups. com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Do not understand what you mean by 'of full age'. In the 15th century
> there was no official age of adulthood or inheritance, certainly not
> 21, which is a fairly modern idea for becoming an adult, i
>

For reasons I shall not bother with here I was once sad enough to look this up in Bracton, the medieval law book. I'm pretty sure it's on the web somewhere if anyone wants to check.

IIRC the ages given were 21 for males and 14 for females as the ages they could be given livery of their lands. Getting livery given was another matter, the King could give it you early if he liked your face or delay it, as I think Edward IV did to Lovel in regard to some of his lands. (Of course you might even have problems proving exactly how old you were, which is why we sometimes have those lovely 'proof of age' records that tell us that John Fitztub had just fallen into a pile of horse muck when he was told the baby was born, or that kind of stuff.)

For kings however, there was no fixed date, it seems to have been the practice that when a consensus emerged for it the king started ruling. Richard II was over 21 when he reclaimed power from the Appellants (1389) but had been ruling personally for several years prior to their coup (1387).

Personally I think the term 'boy' doesn't really apply to someone who has been the commanding general in two battles and won, but I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Sometimes I think we all forget just how young Edward, George and Richard actually were when their were going through their crisis years. Young, but very definitely men, IMHO.

Brian W

By the same token, Henry VI was 16 when he took power in England; transporting over to Iberia, as I usually end up doing sooner or later, Juan II was either 25 or 16 when he did the same; and Juan II of Aragon made Fernando king regnant of Sicily at under age 17 not long before it was clear that Isabel was interested in marrying her Aragonese cousin. Like Edward, Fernando was actively taking part in battles and taking on political responsibilities before he was 16.

Maria
elena@...

-----Original Message-----
From: brian_yorkist
Sent: Sep 10, 2009 1:05 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update

....For kings however, there was no fixed date, it seems to have been the practice that when a consensus emerged for it the king started ruling. Richard II was over 21 when he reclaimed power from the Appellants (1389) but had been ruling personally for several years prior to their coup (1387).

Personally I think the term 'boy' doesn't really apply to someone who has been the commanding general in two battles and won, but I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Sometimes I think we all forget just how young Edward, George and Richard actually were when their were going through their crisis years. Young, but very definitely men, IMHO.

Brian W

Henry VI's guardians accorded him full powers in December 1637, around the time of his 16th birthday. According to Bertram Wolffe, there was a crisis in 1434, when Henry sought to exercise some powers personally, and his guardians were of the view that although this was undesirable, they had no power to prevent him.

Edward IV has always struck me as very much a man at the age of 18.

It was Henry VIII who declared the age of royal majority to be 18. Prior to that it was a moveable feast. I think I'm right in saying that James IV ruled without a formal regency from the age of 15. Charles V of France declared in 1374 that his son's requirement for a regency would end at 13. Where a monarch succeeded under a regency the age at which the regency ended was also a moveable feast - typically, rulers seem to have shaken off their regents at around 20. Certainly this is what happened in Scotland.




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From: Maria <ejbronte@...>
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, 10 September, 2009 6:17:01 PM
Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update

 
By the same token, Henry VI was 16 when he took power in England; transporting over to Iberia, as I usually end up doing sooner or later, Juan II was either 25 or 16 when he did the same; and Juan II of Aragon made Fernando king regnant of Sicily at under age 17 not long before it was clear that Isabel was interested in marrying her Aragonese cousin. Like Edward, Fernando was actively taking part in battles and taking on political responsibilities before he was 16.

Maria
elena@pipeline. com

-----Original Message-----
From: brian_yorkist
Sent: Sep 10, 2009 1:05 PM
To: richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: Fiction Library Update

....For kings however, there was no fixed date, it seems to have been the practice that when a consensus emerged for it the king started ruling. Richard II was over 21 when he reclaimed power from the Appellants (1389) but had been ruling personally for several years prior to their coup (1387).

Personally I think the term 'boy' doesn't really apply to someone who has been the commanding general in two battles and won, but I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Sometimes I think we all forget just how young Edward, George and Richard actually were when their were going through their crisis years. Young, but very definitely men, IMHO.

Brian W

Apologies for casting aspersions, the Shop LIVES. And apologies for trolling the Fiction Library thread with  accusations against the Shop  ;)

Yes it certainly does live, as I've bought a number of silver boar badges from them recently.
Paul


On 3 Sep 2012, at 17:35, Edward Shine wrote:

> Apologies for casting aspersions, the Shop LIVES. And apologies for trolling the Fiction Library thread with accusations against the Shop ;)
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Richard Liveth Yet!