"The Tydders": Series Three

I remember saying that I thought Anthony Worrall-Thompson looks and sounds right for Henry VIII. Having seen a Starkey programme on Elizabeth I (the last episode), a good lookalike for her would be Dame Anne Leslie.

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> I remember saying that I thought Anthony Worrall-Thompson looks and sounds right for Henry VIII. Having seen a Starkey programme on Elizabeth I (the last episode), a good lookalike for her would be Dame Anne Leslie.
>
>
>
They have managed to get something right - twice!

First, Henry Pole the Younger is arrested with his father - the effect being slightly spoiled when Montagu and Lady Salisbury's deaths reach Reginald at the same time when they were executed two and a half years apart. At the end, young Henry is led from his cell - cue the closing credits - and nobody knows what happened next unless he turns up buried 130 years later. However, he had two sisters!

Second, a French Princess journeys north to marry James V and Henry comments on the Scottish climate - she died about a year later.

--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> They have managed to get something right - twice!
>
> First, Henry Pole the Younger is arrested with his father - the effect being slightly spoiled when Montagu and Lady Salisbury's deaths reach Reginald at the same time when they were executed two and a half years apart. At the end, young Henry is led from his cell - cue the closing credits - and nobody knows what happened next unless he turns up buried 130 years later. However, he had two sisters!

Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
eileen

>
> Second, a French Princess journeys north to marry James V and Henry comments on the Scottish climate - she died about a year later.
>

--- In , "ebatesparrot" <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:

>
> Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
> eileen


We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.

Or is it the other way around?

Katy

--- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "ebatesparrot" <ebatesparrot@> wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
> > eileen
>
>
> We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.
>
> Or is it the other way around?
>
> Katy
>
Just to clarify: Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, was arrested in late 1538, with his mother (Lady Salisbury), brother (Sir Geoffrey), son (Henry the Younger) and cousin (Marquis of Dorset). Montagu and Dorset were executed on 9 January 1539, Lady Salisbury on 28 May 1541. Sir Geoffrey was released and died in 1557. Henry Pole the Younger disappeared in the Tower in 1542.
Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy), Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.

PS I didn't see a playmate.

The French princess was presumably Madeleine, daughter of Francois I, who married James V early in 1537, travelled to Scotland that spring, and died early in July. James then married Mary of Guise in 1538.

Regards

Ann




________________________________
From: stephenmlark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 11 September, 2009 10:03:26 PM
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three

 
--- In richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com, "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@ ...> wrote:
>
> I remember saying that I thought Anthony Worrall-Thompson looks and sounds right for Henry VIII. Having seen a Starkey programme on Elizabeth I (the last episode), a good lookalike for her would be Dame Anne Leslie.
>
>
>
They have managed to get something right - twice!

First, Henry Pole the Younger is arrested with his father - the effect being slightly spoiled when Montagu and Lady Salisbury's deaths reach Reginald at the same time when they were executed two and a half years apart. At the end, young Henry is led from his cell - cue the closing credits - and nobody knows what happened next unless he turns up buried 130 years later. However, he had two sisters!

Second, a French Princess journeys north to marry James V and Henry comments on the Scottish climate - she died about a year later.

On 12 Sep 2009, at 08:48, stephenmlark wrote:

> Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy),
> Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.



And are rightful monarchs of England then?
And how come Geoffrey was spared the Plantagenet cull?
Paul

Richard liveth yet

--- In , A LYON <A.Lyon1@...> wrote:
>
> The French princess was presumably Madeleine, daughter of Francois I, who married James V early in 1537, travelled to Scotland that spring, and died early in July. James then married Mary of Guise in 1538.
>
> Regards
>
> Ann

Yes, she supposedly suffered from ill-health and her father, Francois I, did not wish her to marry, let alone go to live in a cold climate like Scotland's. However, it was apparently a love match.

Pamela
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: stephenmlark <stephenmlark@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 11 September, 2009 10:03:26 PM
> Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three
>
>  
> --- In richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com, "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > I remember saying that I thought Anthony Worrall-Thompson looks and sounds right for Henry VIII. Having seen a Starkey programme on Elizabeth I (the last episode), a good lookalike for her would be Dame Anne Leslie.
> >
> >
> >
> They have managed to get something right - twice!
>
> First, Henry Pole the Younger is arrested with his father - the effect being slightly spoiled when Montagu and Lady Salisbury's deaths reach Reginald at the same time when they were executed two and a half years apart. At the end, young Henry is led from his cell - cue the closing credits - and nobody knows what happened next unless he turns up buried 130 years later. However, he had two sisters!
>
> Second, a French Princess journeys north to marry James V and Henry comments on the Scottish climate - she died about a year later.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sir Geoffrey gave evidence against Montagu. Catherine Pole married Francis of Huntingdon and the Earl of Loudon ("Aussie Mike") is their heir.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Trevor Bale
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three



On 12 Sep 2009, at 08:48, stephenmlark wrote:

> Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy),
> Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.

And are rightful monarchs of England then?
And how come Geoffrey was spared the Plantagenet cull?
Paul

Richard liveth yet

--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.
> >
> > Or is it the other way around?
> >
> > Katy
> >
> Just to clarify: Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, was arrested in late 1538, with his mother (Lady Salisbury), brother (Sir Geoffrey), son (Henry the Younger) and cousin (Marquis of Dorset). Montagu and Dorset were executed on 9 January 1539, Lady Salisbury on 28 May 1541. Sir Geoffrey was released and died in 1557. Henry Pole the Younger disappeared in the Tower in 1542.

Poor little blighter....Ive done a google search on him but havent turned up much. I doubt if this little boy was whisked overseas or other means found to let him to live out his life in obscurity knowing the Tudors. I suppose there could indeed be a chance the Tower bones are in fact this little lad. I wonder if the playmate was fact or a figment of someone's imagination (possibly a Ricardian lol) to make it look as if the bones in the Tower were Henry and playmate?
eileen


> Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy), Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.
>
> PS I didn't see a playmate.
>

--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , "ebatesparrot" <ebatesparrot@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
> > > eileen
> >
> >
> > We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.
> >
> > Or is it the other way around?
> >
> > Katy
> >
> Just to clarify: Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, was arrested in late 1538, with his mother (Lady Salisbury), brother (Sir Geoffrey), son (Henry the Younger) and cousin (Marquis of Dorset). Montagu and Dorset were executed on 9 January 1539, Lady Salisbury on 28 May 1541. Sir Geoffrey was released and died in 1557. Henry Pole the Younger disappeared in the Tower in 1542.
> Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy), Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.
>
> PS I didn't see a playmate.


I read somewhere that a young commoner boy had been taken into the Tower to be the companion and playmate of one of the royal scions imprisoned there, and one of the two never came out. It looks like I was thinking of Edward, the 11-year-old son of Henry Courtenay (grandson of Edward IV via Catherine of York) and confusing him with Henry Pole, who was much older and presumably not in need of a playmate when he was imprisoned. (Both sons were imprisoned along with their mothers.)

(Clearing up misrememberings like this is why your work is so useful, Stephen.)

Katy

--- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
>
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
> > > > eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.
> > >
> > > Or is it the other way around?
> > >
> > > Katy
> > >
> > Just to clarify: Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, was arrested in late 1538, with his mother (Lady Salisbury), brother (Sir Geoffrey), son (Henry the Younger) and cousin (Marquis of Dorset). Montagu and Dorset were executed on 9 January 1539, Lady Salisbury on 28 May 1541. Sir Geoffrey was released and died in 1557. Henry Pole the Younger disappeared in the Tower in 1542.
> > Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy), Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.
> >
> > PS I didn't see a playmate.
>
>
> I read somewhere that a young commoner boy had been taken into the Tower to be the companion and playmate of one of the royal scions imprisoned there, and one of the two never came out. It looks like I was thinking of Edward, the 11-year-old son of Henry Courtenay (grandson of Edward IV via Catherine of York) and confusing him with Henry Pole, who was much older and presumably not in need of a playmate when he was imprisoned. (Both sons were imprisoned along with their mothers.)
>
> (Clearing up misrememberings like this is why your work is so useful, Stephen.)
>
> Katy


Stephen/Katy....Im sorry if I sound thick here but Katy you have confused me with Edward Courtney...Please clarify....Is it correct that Henry Pole the Younger (Margaret's grandson) was the young boy that disappeared in the Tower and that nothing is known of what happened to him? Katy when you mentioned "Henry Pole was much older and not in need of a playmate" did you mean Henry Pole the father of Henry Pole the younger?

Are you saying that Edward Courtney ll years old ALSO went into the Tower and never came out? Exactly how many small boys have gone into the Tower and never emerged....?? All these Poles....mutter, mutter
>

Katy,

There were TWO Henry Poles arrested that day in 1538.
The first was Baron Montagu, Lady Salisbury's eldest child at about 44. The other was his son, not older than 17 and possibly younger.
Only these two and Lady Salisbury were shown in the programme. Sir Geoffrey Pole, their middle-aged cousin Exeter (Henry Courtenay) and HIS son (Thomas) were arrested seperately.
Thomas, about 11 at the time, was released in 1553, nearly married Queen Mary or Princess Elizabeth, then fled to Italy, where he died in 1556.

http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/EdwardCourtenay(12EDevon).htm

Stephen

PS I saw no second boy in the programme.

----- Original Message -----
From: oregonkaty
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three


--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In , "ebatesparrot" <ebatesparrot@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
> > > eileen
> >
> >
> > We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.
> >
> > Or is it the other way around?
> >
> > Katy
> >
> Just to clarify: Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, was arrested in late 1538, with his mother (Lady Salisbury), brother (Sir Geoffrey), son (Henry the Younger) and cousin (Marquis of Dorset). Montagu and Dorset were executed on 9 January 1539, Lady Salisbury on 28 May 1541. Sir Geoffrey was released and died in 1557. Henry Pole the Younger disappeared in the Tower in 1542.
> Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy), Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.
>
> PS I didn't see a playmate.

I read somewhere that a young commoner boy had been taken into the Tower to be the companion and playmate of one of the royal scions imprisoned there, and one of the two never came out. It looks like I was thinking of Edward, the 11-year-old son of Henry Courtenay (grandson of Edward IV via Catherine of York) and confusing him with Henry Pole, who was much older and presumably not in need of a playmate when he was imprisoned. (Both sons were imprisoned along with their mothers.)

(Clearing up misrememberings like this is why your work is so useful, Stephen.)

Katy

Eileen,

You ARE almost there. Henry Pole WAS imprisoned and last seen in 1542. Edward Courtenay, his cousin, was released in 1553 and tried to marry either of Henry VIII's daughters.
Pole (jr) COULD just have been found in 1672 - misdescribed as Edward V - although the complication is that that part of the Tower was rebuilt during Anne Boleyn's time (1533-6).

I shall call the two Henry Poles: Montagu and jr. for simplicity.

Stephen.
----- Original Message -----
From: ebatesparrot
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three


--- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
>
> > > >
> > > > Sorry Stephen...I was trying to figure out who the little boy was...So that was Henry Pole...Are you saying that it is not known what become of him?
> > > > eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > We know what became of him, but not the fate of the little boy who was taken into prison with him to be his playmate.
> > >
> > > Or is it the other way around?
> > >
> > > Katy
> > >
> > Just to clarify: Henry Pole, Lord Montagu, was arrested in late 1538, with his mother (Lady Salisbury), brother (Sir Geoffrey), son (Henry the Younger) and cousin (Marquis of Dorset). Montagu and Dorset were executed on 9 January 1539, Lady Salisbury on 28 May 1541. Sir Geoffrey was released and died in 1557. Henry Pole the Younger disappeared in the Tower in 1542.
> > Montagu had three other children: Thomas (who had died in infancy), Catherine and Winifred, whose descendants thrive.
> >
> > PS I didn't see a playmate.
>
>
> I read somewhere that a young commoner boy had been taken into the Tower to be the companion and playmate of one of the royal scions imprisoned there, and one of the two never came out. It looks like I was thinking of Edward, the 11-year-old son of Henry Courtenay (grandson of Edward IV via Catherine of York) and confusing him with Henry Pole, who was much older and presumably not in need of a playmate when he was imprisoned. (Both sons were imprisoned along with their mothers.)
>
> (Clearing up misrememberings like this is why your work is so useful, Stephen.)
>
> Katy

Stephen/Katy....Im sorry if I sound thick here but Katy you have confused me with Edward Courtney...Please clarify....Is it correct that Henry Pole the Younger (Margaret's grandson) was the young boy that disappeared in the Tower and that nothing is known of what happened to him? Katy when you mentioned "Henry Pole was much older and not in need of a playmate" did you mean Henry Pole the father of Henry Pole the younger?

Are you saying that Edward Courtney ll years old ALSO went into the Tower and never came out? Exactly how many small boys have gone into the Tower and never emerged....?? All these Poles....mutter, mutter
>

--- In , "ebatesparrot" <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:
>
>
> Stephen/Katy....Im sorry if I sound thick here but Katy you have confused me with Edward Courtney...Please clarify....Is it correct that Henry Pole the Younger (Margaret's grandson) was the young boy that disappeared in the Tower and that nothing is known of what happened to him? Katy when you mentioned "Henry Pole was much older and not in need of a playmate" did you mean Henry Pole the father of Henry Pole the younger?
>
> Are you saying that Edward Courtney ll years old ALSO went into the Tower and never came out? Exactly how many small boys have gone into the Tower and never emerged....?? All these Poles....mutter, mutter


Edward Courtney went into the Tower but he did come out. I read somewhere about a young commoner boy who was taken into the Tower to be the playmate of a royal boy, which I thought I remembered was Margaret (de la) Pole's grandson, who was imprisoned along with her. And that one of the boys never came out.

I'm confused now, too, and, not for the first time, sorry I brought something up when I didn't know what I was talking about.

Katy

You may well be right in that we have two boys of the same age, one of whom was released and one never seen again. There was no second boy in the programme.

----- Original Message -----
From: oregonkaty
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three


--- In , "ebatesparrot" <ebatesparrot@...> wrote:
>
>
> Stephen/Katy....Im sorry if I sound thick here but Katy you have confused me with Edward Courtney...Please clarify....Is it correct that Henry Pole the Younger (Margaret's grandson) was the young boy that disappeared in the Tower and that nothing is known of what happened to him? Katy when you mentioned "Henry Pole was much older and not in need of a playmate" did you mean Henry Pole the father of Henry Pole the younger?
>
> Are you saying that Edward Courtney ll years old ALSO went into the Tower and never came out? Exactly how many small boys have gone into the Tower and never emerged....?? All these Poles....mutter, mutter

Edward Courtney went into the Tower but he did come out. I read somewhere about a young commoner boy who was taken into the Tower to be the playmate of a royal boy, which I thought I remembered was Margaret (de la) Pole's grandson, who was imprisoned along with her. And that one of the boys never came out.

I'm confused now, too, and, not for the first time, sorry I brought something up when I didn't know what I was talking about.

Katy

All this talk about the "commoner boy" being a playmate of the royal child
reminds me a lot of the Mark Twain story "The Prince and the Pauper".

Could someone have thought that was a real story from long ago? In that
tale, the two boys switch places to see what it would be like and the
commoner boy

Becomes the "king": and the royal boy gets in all kinds of trouble and has
to be saved by, I think, Errol Flynn! (In the movie, of course!)

All comes right in the end and the boys are returned to their respective
situations and as a reward, Errol Flynn does not have to bow to the king.



Just a thought :-)



Janet

Janet,

I think you have explained it well. In Twain's story, one of the boys is Edward VI - but I only saw one boy on Friday.

Stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: Janet Trimbath
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three


All this talk about the "commoner boy" being a playmate of the royal child
reminds me a lot of the Mark Twain story "The Prince and the Pauper".

Could someone have thought that was a real story from long ago? In that
tale, the two boys switch places to see what it would be like and the
commoner boy

Becomes the "king": and the royal boy gets in all kinds of trouble and has
to be saved by, I think, Errol Flynn! (In the movie, of course!)

All comes right in the end and the boys are returned to their respective
situations and as a reward, Errol Flynn does not have to bow to the king.

Just a thought :-)

Janet

the prince in the story was edward vi. it is possible twain knew something about the era and then let his imagination go to work. i have all of twain's books.
 
roslyn

--- On Sun, 9/13/09, Janet Trimbath <forevere@...> wrote:


From: Janet Trimbath <forevere@...>
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three
To:
Received: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 8:19 AM


 



All this talk about the "commoner boy" being a playmate of the royal child
reminds me a lot of the Mark Twain story "The Prince and the Pauper".

Could someone have thought that was a real story from long ago? In that
tale, the two boys switch places to see what it would be like and the
commoner boy

Becomes the "king": and the royal boy gets in all kinds of trouble and has
to be saved by, I think, Errol Flynn! (In the movie, of course!)

All comes right in the end and the boys are returned to their respective
situations and as a reward, Errol Flynn does not have to bow to the king.

Just a thought :-)

Janet

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Janet,
>
> I think you have explained it well. In Twain's story, one of the boys is Edward VI - but I only saw one boy on Friday.


Perhaps the writers eliminated him for the sake of a tighter story. Perhaps he only existed in my fevered imagination.

I have the impression, though, that it was not uncommon for other children to be brought in as companions for bluer-blood kids, in school as well as in stricter confinement. Richard of York went from sanctuary with his mother and sisters to be his brother's companion in the Tower, though I suppose it could be argued that that was just a pretense to get the two together in one place.

Speaking as a mother of four and grandmother of five, if I were locked up with a young child, whether in a prison cell or a comfortable apartment, I would certainly pray for another child to provide that one a playmate!

Katy

Katy,

Thanks for the idea but the "second boy" idea definitely belongs to "The Prince and the Pauper" and must be later because Edward (later VI) was only about four in 1541.

The only possible "second boy" in the Pole case would be Edward Courtenay but he wasn't a commoner and was recreated Earl of Devon on his release. In fact, he and his father were both omitted from the series.

In other words - and I thank Janet for the reminder - there was no "playmate" in the programme because there wasn't one in real life. Edward IV's sons were placed in the Tower together as it was a Royal palace in 1483. Henry Pole jr. was a prisoner.

I cannot think of anyone under 16 being executed in Tudor times but he was probably "neglected to death" - a treatment that was tried on his great-uncle (Warwick) and later (in the Tuilleries) on "Louis XVII".

----- Original Message -----
From: oregonkaty
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: "The Tydders": Series Three


--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Janet,
>
> I think you have explained it well. In Twain's story, one of the boys is Edward VI - but I only saw one boy on Friday.

Perhaps the writers eliminated him for the sake of a tighter story. Perhaps he only existed in my fevered imagination.

I have the impression, though, that it was not uncommon for other children to be brought in as companions for bluer-blood kids, in school as well as in stricter confinement. Richard of York went from sanctuary with his mother and sisters to be his brother's companion in the Tower, though I suppose it could be argued that that was just a pretense to get the two together in one place.

Speaking as a mother of four and grandmother of five, if I were locked up with a young child, whether in a prison cell or a comfortable apartment, I would certainly pray for another child to provide that one a playmate!

Katy

The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.

Richard G
--- In , "Janet Trimbath" <forevere@...> wrote:
>
> All this talk about the "commoner boy" being a playmate of the royal child
> reminds me a lot of the Mark Twain story "The Prince and the Pauper".
>
> Could someone have thought that was a real story from long ago? In that
> tale, the two boys switch places to see what it would be like and the
> commoner boy
>
> Becomes the "king": and the royal boy gets in all kinds of trouble and has
> to be saved by, I think, Errol Flynn! (In the movie, of course!)
>
> All comes right in the end and the boys are returned to their respective
> situations and as a reward, Errol Flynn does not have to bow to the king.
>
>
>
> Just a thought :-)
>
>
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
>

--- In , "rgcorris" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.


Both of them? <g>

Katy

Yes, both. It was his last film before he went onto a new career as
Michael Jackson's "closest friend" and "sperm donor by post".
Poor man, clearly never got over playing Oliver!
Best thing about that movie was a terrific turn as Henry VIII by
Charlton Heston.
Paul



On 16 Sep 2009, at 18:33, oregonkaty wrote:

> --- In , "rgcorris"
> <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>>
>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>
>
> Both of them? <g>
>
> Katy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, both. It was his last film before he went onto a new career as
> Michael Jackson's "closest friend" and "sperm donor by post".
> Poor man, clearly never got over playing Oliver!
> Best thing about that movie was a terrific turn as Henry VIII by
> Charlton Heston.
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 16 Sep 2009, at 18:33, oregonkaty wrote:
>
> > --- In , "rgcorris"
> > <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >>
> >> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
> >> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
> >
> >
> > Both of them? <g>
> >


Wait -- you mean Mark Lester actually played both boys? Did the production have budget problems?

Or did the production stumble upon a hitherto-unknown piece of history during research, and come to the conclusion that there were no princes in the Tower, just one "prince"? That Richard and Edward were, in fact, one and the same? After all, did anyone ever see them together. No! Edward was always "at Ludlow" and when he was in London, Richard was with his mum and sisters. The diabolical cleverness of it all, deceiving us all these centuries that Edward IV had two potential heirs. I'm glad the true story has finally come out.

Katy

Sorry, the Prince was Edward VI not V.

----- Original Message -----
From: oregonkaty
To:
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)


--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, both. It was his last film before he went onto a new career as
> Michael Jackson's "closest friend" and "sperm donor by post".
> Poor man, clearly never got over playing Oliver!
> Best thing about that movie was a terrific turn as Henry VIII by
> Charlton Heston.
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 16 Sep 2009, at 18:33, oregonkaty wrote:
>
> > --- In , "rgcorris"
> > <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >>
> >> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
> >> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
> >
> >
> > Both of them? <g>
> >

Wait -- you mean Mark Lester actually played both boys? Did the production have budget problems?

Or did the production stumble upon a hitherto-unknown piece of history during research, and come to the conclusion that there were no princes in the Tower, just one "prince"? That Richard and Edward were, in fact, one and the same? After all, did anyone ever see them together. No! Edward was always "at Ludlow" and when he was in London, Richard was with his mum and sisters. The diabolical cleverness of it all, deceiving us all these centuries that Edward IV had two potential heirs. I'm glad the true story has finally come out.

Katy

Good try, Katy, but the whole reason the two boys could change places (in
the book and movie) was that they looked identical. Must have been the same
gene pool in there somewhere).

So, although that is a creative theory on your part, it would not have flown
for Mark Twain :-)



I personally believe the Roman (?) sacrifice theory as the provenance of
"the Bones" and that the two young Princes were spirited away out of the
Tower to safety and anonymity either in the north of England or on the
Continent.



L.M.L.,

Janet

In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger, Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !

Richard G

1977 version -

Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
Harry Andrews ... Hertford
Julian Orchard ... St. John
Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
Graham Stark ... Jester
Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
Tommy Wright ... Constable
Harry Fowler ... Nipper
Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
Ruth Madoc ... Moll
Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
Roy Evans ... Night Owl
William Lawford ... Mandrake
Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
Dervis Ward ... Forester
Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII

1937 version -

Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
Barton MacLane ... John Canty
Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
Eric Portman ... First Lord
Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
Lester Matthews ... St. John
Robert Adair ... First Guard
Harry Cording ... Second Guard
Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
Rex Evans ... Rich Man
Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
Harry Beresford ... The Watch
Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
Ian Wolf ... Proprietor



--- In , "oregonkaty" <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "rgcorris" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>
>
> Both of them? <g>
>
> Katy
>

--- In , "rgcorris" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger, Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played both,



Ah, now I see where my imagination jumped the tracks, as it is wont to do. Where other people said that Mark Lester played both boys, they were talking about The Prince and the Pauper -- I was thinking of the two "princes in the Tower" and that Lester had played both of them.

Katy

There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody can
pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as 'und' "
On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
Paul


On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:

> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
>
> Richard G
>
> 1977 version -
>
> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
> Julian Orchard ... St. John
> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
> Graham Stark ... Jester
> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
> Tommy Wright ... Constable
> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
> William Lawford ... Mandrake
> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
> Dervis Ward ... Forester
> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
>
> 1937 version -
>
> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
> Eric Portman ... First Lord
> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
> Lester Matthews ... St. John
> Robert Adair ... First Guard
> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
>
>
>
> --- In , "oregonkaty"
> <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In , "rgcorris"
>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
>>>
>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>>
>>
>> Both of them? <g>
>>
>> Katy
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

Series Three ends tonight - and I hold out little hope for Thomas Cromwell.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Trevor Bale
To:
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)


There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody can
pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as 'und' "
On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
Paul

On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:

> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
>
> Richard G
>
> 1977 version -
>
> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
> Julian Orchard ... St. John
> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
> Graham Stark ... Jester
> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
> Tommy Wright ... Constable
> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
> William Lawford ... Mandrake
> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
> Dervis Ward ... Forester
> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
>
> 1937 version -
>
> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
> Eric Portman ... First Lord
> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
> Lester Matthews ... St. John
> Robert Adair ... First Guard
> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
>
>
>
> --- In , "oregonkaty"
> <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In , "rgcorris"
>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
>>>
>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>>
>>
>> Both of them? <g>
>>
>> Katy
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

End of "The Tydders" until next August - Cromwell's fall being a suitable cut-off. It didn't actually show him being made Earl of Essex in January 1540 but his son Gregory, Baron Cromwell by December, was shown.

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Lark
To:
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)


Series Three ends tonight - and I hold out little hope for Thomas Cromwell.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Trevor Bale
To:
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)

There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody can
pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as 'und' "
On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
Paul

On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:

> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
>
> Richard G
>
> 1977 version -
>
> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
> Julian Orchard ... St. John
> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
> Graham Stark ... Jester
> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
> Tommy Wright ... Constable
> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
> William Lawford ... Mandrake
> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
> Dervis Ward ... Forester
> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
>
> 1937 version -
>
> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
> Eric Portman ... First Lord
> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
> Lester Matthews ... St. John
> Robert Adair ... First Guard
> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
>
>
>
> --- In , "oregonkaty"
> <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>>
>> --- In , "rgcorris"
>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
>>>
>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>>
>>
>> Both of them? <g>
>>
>> Katy
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

Catherine Howard, a relative of the Duke of Norfolk, who I don't
think we've seen in this series, being chosen from a whorehouse,
going willingly into the fit, slim young king's bed while Anne of
Cleves was still queen, and enjoying herself. Anything to get
Jonathan out of his kit it seems. Anne of Cleves was rather
attractive too I thought!
But then this has little to do with history does it?
Paul



On 25 Sep 2009, at 22:00, Stephen Lark wrote:

> End of "The Tydders" until next August - Cromwell's fall being a
> suitable cut-off. It didn't actually show him being made Earl of
> Essex in January 1540 but his son Gregory, Baron Cromwell by
> December, was shown.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen Lark
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>
>
> Series Three ends tonight - and I hold out little hope for
> Thomas Cromwell.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Trevor Bale
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>
> There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
> magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
> Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
> the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
> complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody
> can
> pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as
> 'und' "
> On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
> Paul
>
> On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:
>
>> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
>> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
>> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
>> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
>> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
>> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
>> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
>> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
>> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
>>
>> Richard G
>>
>> 1977 version -
>>
>> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
>> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
>> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
>> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
>> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
>> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
>> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
>> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
>> Julian Orchard ... St. John
>> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
>> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
>> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
>> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
>> Graham Stark ... Jester
>> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
>> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
>> Tommy Wright ... Constable
>> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
>> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
>> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
>> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
>> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
>> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
>> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
>> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
>> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
>> William Lawford ... Mandrake
>> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
>> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
>> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
>> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
>> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
>> Dervis Ward ... Forester
>> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
>> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
>> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
>>
>> 1937 version -
>>
>> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
>> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
>> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
>> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
>> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
>> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
>> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
>> Eric Portman ... First Lord
>> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
>> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
>> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
>> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
>> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
>> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
>> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
>> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
>> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
>> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
>> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
>> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
>> Lester Matthews ... St. John
>> Robert Adair ... First Guard
>> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
>> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
>> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
>> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
>> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
>> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
>> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
>> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
>> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
>> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
>> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In , "oregonkaty"
>> <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> --- In , "rgcorris"
>>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>>>
>>>
>>> Both of them? <g>
>>>
>>> Katy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

I agree completely there - I can't believe that the Duke of Norfolk's paternal niece was ever a prostitute; after all it was already high treason to marry the King if one were not a virgin. I am not sure about Cromwell facing an intoxicated headsman either. However, Gregory Cromwell was a gem, as were Montagu and his son two weeks.

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Trevor Bale
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)


Catherine Howard, a relative of the Duke of Norfolk, who I don't
think we've seen in this series, being chosen from a whorehouse,
going willingly into the fit, slim young king's bed while Anne of
Cleves was still queen, and enjoying herself. Anything to get
Jonathan out of his kit it seems. Anne of Cleves was rather
attractive too I thought!
But then this has little to do with history does it?
Paul

On 25 Sep 2009, at 22:00, Stephen Lark wrote:

> End of "The Tydders" until next August - Cromwell's fall being a
> suitable cut-off. It didn't actually show him being made Earl of
> Essex in January 1540 but his son Gregory, Baron Cromwell by
> December, was shown.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stephen Lark
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>
>
> Series Three ends tonight - and I hold out little hope for
> Thomas Cromwell.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Trevor Bale
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>
> There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
> magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
> Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
> the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
> complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody
> can
> pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as
> 'und' "
> On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
> Paul
>
> On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:
>
>> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
>> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
>> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
>> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
>> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
>> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
>> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
>> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
>> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
>>
>> Richard G
>>
>> 1977 version -
>>
>> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
>> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
>> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
>> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
>> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
>> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
>> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
>> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
>> Julian Orchard ... St. John
>> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
>> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
>> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
>> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
>> Graham Stark ... Jester
>> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
>> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
>> Tommy Wright ... Constable
>> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
>> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
>> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
>> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
>> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
>> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
>> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
>> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
>> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
>> William Lawford ... Mandrake
>> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
>> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
>> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
>> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
>> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
>> Dervis Ward ... Forester
>> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
>> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
>> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
>>
>> 1937 version -
>>
>> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
>> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
>> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
>> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
>> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
>> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
>> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
>> Eric Portman ... First Lord
>> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
>> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
>> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
>> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
>> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
>> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
>> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
>> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
>> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
>> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
>> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
>> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
>> Lester Matthews ... St. John
>> Robert Adair ... First Guard
>> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
>> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
>> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
>> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
>> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
>> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
>> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
>> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
>> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
>> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
>> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In , "oregonkaty"
>> <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> --- In , "rgcorris"
>>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>>>
>>>
>>> Both of them? <g>
>>>
>>> Katy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

I seem to recall reading that Cromwell's execution was botched, but
doubt it anything to do with a scheme to get the executioner drunk by
Brandon!
Oh, Henry chose the day of Cromwell's beheading for his wedding to
Catherine Howard. Such gratitude to the servant who had more than
anything made him as rich and powerful as he had by then become! No
sign of nuptials here though.
Notice Catherine didn't complain about the stink his leg wound made,
but then he was still fit and skinny and galloping around on horses,
unlike in reality where he was too fat to get on a horse, and his
wound made him too uncomfortable to stand the jogging up and down. A
slow moving well cushioned carriage was his means of transport by
this time.
No sign of Thomas Culpeper yet either, who was already an intimate of
the king's and tended his wound on a daily basis. Doubtless some
naked young hunk is already lined up for the next series, if there is
to be one. Can't see the producers going for a real Catherine Parr
though. Still Catherine Howard could do a dance of the seven veils
naked on the scaffold to liven things up a bit, couldn't she?:-)
Paul


On 26 Sep 2009, at 20:52, Stephen Lark wrote:

> I agree completely there - I can't believe that the Duke of
> Norfolk's paternal niece was ever a prostitute; after all it was
> already high treason to marry the King if one were not a virgin. I
> am not sure about Cromwell facing an intoxicated headsman either.
> However, Gregory Cromwell was a gem, as were Montagu and his son
> two weeks.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Trevor Bale
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>
>
> Catherine Howard, a relative of the Duke of Norfolk, who I don't
> think we've seen in this series, being chosen from a whorehouse,
> going willingly into the fit, slim young king's bed while Anne of
> Cleves was still queen, and enjoying herself. Anything to get
> Jonathan out of his kit it seems. Anne of Cleves was rather
> attractive too I thought!
> But then this has little to do with history does it?
> Paul
>
> On 25 Sep 2009, at 22:00, Stephen Lark wrote:
>
>> End of "The Tydders" until next August - Cromwell's fall being a
>> suitable cut-off. It didn't actually show him being made Earl of
>> Essex in January 1540 but his son Gregory, Baron Cromwell by
>> December, was shown.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Stephen Lark
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
>> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>>
>>
>> Series Three ends tonight - and I hold out little hope for
>> Thomas Cromwell.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Paul Trevor Bale
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
>> Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>>
>> There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
>> magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
>> Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
>> the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
>> complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody
>> can
>> pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as
>> 'und' "
>> On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
>> Paul
>>
>> On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:
>>
>>> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
>>> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
>>> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
>>> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
>>> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
>>> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
>>> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
>>> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
>>> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
>>>
>>> Richard G
>>>
>>> 1977 version -
>>>
>>> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
>>> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
>>> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
>>> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
>>> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
>>> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
>>> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
>>> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
>>> Julian Orchard ... St. John
>>> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
>>> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
>>> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
>>> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
>>> Graham Stark ... Jester
>>> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
>>> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
>>> Tommy Wright ... Constable
>>> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
>>> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
>>> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
>>> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
>>> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
>>> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
>>> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
>>> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
>>> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
>>> William Lawford ... Mandrake
>>> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
>>> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
>>> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
>>> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
>>> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
>>> Dervis Ward ... Forester
>>> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
>>> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
>>> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
>>>
>>> 1937 version -
>>>
>>> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
>>> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
>>> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
>>> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
>>> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
>>> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
>>> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
>>> Eric Portman ... First Lord
>>> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
>>> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
>>> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
>>> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
>>> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
>>> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
>>> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
>>> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
>>> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
>>> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
>>> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
>>> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
>>> Lester Matthews ... St. John
>>> Robert Adair ... First Guard
>>> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
>>> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
>>> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
>>> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
>>> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
>>> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
>>> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
>>> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
>>> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
>>> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
>>> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In , "oregonkaty"
>>> <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- In , "rgcorris"
>>>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
>>>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Both of them? <g>
>>>>
>>>> Katy
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard liveth yet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard liveth yet

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> I seem to recall reading that Cromwell's execution was botched, but
> doubt it anything to do with a scheme to get the executioner drunk by
> Brandon!
> Oh, Henry chose the day of Cromwell's beheading for his wedding to
> Catherine Howard. Such gratitude to the servant who had more than
> anything made him as rich and powerful as he had by then become! No
> sign of nuptials here though.
> Notice Catherine didn't complain about the stink his leg wound made,
> but then he was still fit and skinny and galloping around on horses,
> unlike in reality where he was too fat to get on a horse, and his
> wound made him too uncomfortable to stand the jogging up and down. A
> slow moving well cushioned carriage was his means of transport by
> this time.
> No sign of Thomas Culpeper yet either, who was already an intimate of
> the king's and tended his wound on a daily basis. Doubtless some
> naked young hunk is already lined up for the next series, if there is
> to be one. Can't see the producers going for a real Catherine Parr
> though. Still Catherine Howard could do a dance of the seven veils
> naked on the scaffold to liven things up a bit, couldn't she?:-)
> Paul
>

It's all so far removed from historical reality that it seems almost churlish to mention the errors. I mean, it's so far out they might all as well be wearing ballet costumes and singing the lines.

Actually, it's the perfect example of why I prefer the House of York to be nowhere near the TV. I don't trust the ******s! There is no limit to their absurdity or lack of historical understanding.

Brian W

--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:

> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
> To:
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 8:19 AM
> I seem to recall reading that
> Cromwell's execution was botched, but 
> doubt it anything to do with a scheme to get the
> executioner drunk by 
> Brandon!
> Oh, Henry chose the day of Cromwell's beheading for his
> wedding to 
> Catherine Howard. Such gratitude to the servant who had
> more than 
> anything made him as rich and powerful as he had by then
> become! No 
> sign of nuptials here though.
> Notice Catherine didn't complain about the stink his leg
> wound made, 
> but then he was still fit and skinny and galloping around
> on horses, 
> unlike in reality where he was too fat to get on a horse,
> and his 
> wound made him too uncomfortable to stand the jogging up
> and down. A 
> slow moving well cushioned carriage was his means of
> transport by 
> this time.
> No sign of Thomas Culpeper yet either, who was already an
> intimate of 
> the king's and tended his wound on a daily basis. Doubtless
> some 
> naked young hunk is already lined up for the next series,
> if there is 
> to be one. Can't see the producers going for a real
> Catherine Parr 
> though. Still Catherine Howard could do a dance of the
> seven veils 
> naked on the scaffold to liven things up a bit, couldn't
> she?:-)
> Paul
>
This coming season is to be its last (Spring 2010.)

http://www.buzzfocus.com/2009/04/14/the-tudors-season-4-off-with-her-head/

Gilda

--- In , Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> > Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
> > To:
> > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 8:19 AM
> > I seem to recall reading that
> > Cromwell's execution was botched, but 
> > doubt it anything to do with a scheme to get the
> > executioner drunk by 
> > Brandon!
> > Oh, Henry chose the day of Cromwell's beheading for his
> > wedding to 
> > Catherine Howard. Such gratitude to the servant who had
> > more than 
> > anything made him as rich and powerful as he had by then
> > become! No 
> > sign of nuptials here though.
> > Notice Catherine didn't complain about the stink his leg
> > wound made, 
> > but then he was still fit and skinny and galloping around
> > on horses, 
> > unlike in reality where he was too fat to get on a horse,
> > and his 
> > wound made him too uncomfortable to stand the jogging up
> > and down. A 
> > slow moving well cushioned carriage was his means of
> > transport by 
> > this time.
> > No sign of Thomas Culpeper yet either, who was already an
> > intimate of 
> > the king's and tended his wound on a daily basis. Doubtless
> > some 
> > naked young hunk is already lined up for the next series,
> > if there is 
> > to be one. Can't see the producers going for a real
> > Catherine Parr 
> > though. Still Catherine Howard could do a dance of the
> > seven veils 
> > naked on the scaffold to liven things up a bit, couldn't
> > she?:-)
> > Paul
> >
> This coming season is to be its last (Spring 2010.)
>
> http://www.buzzfocus.com/2009/04/14/the-tudors-season-4-off-with-her-head/
>
> Gilda

Thank goodness! The main problem with this type of stuff is that 95% of the population who watch it think it IS history. Let's hope that the makers do not decide that "The Wars of the Roses" would make a suitable alternative.

Pamela


>

Hi All,

I've been on this list for a few years now...quietly...(I soak up more
that way). A friend of mine who was a medieval literature professor in
a previous incarnation has been blogging about Shakespeare's plays.
Currently she is analyzing RIII and I thought it might be of interest to
the list. She's really very insightful.

http://gaylesbardblog.blogspot.com/


Regards,
Janice Pearson


This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
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please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this
e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this
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unauthorized and may be illegal.

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> I agree completely there - I can't believe that the Duke of Norfolk's paternal niece was ever a prostitute; after all it was already high treason to marry the King if one were not a virgin. I am not sure about Cromwell facing an intoxicated headsman either. However, Gregory Cromwell was a gem, as were Montagu and his son two weeks.

Doing a spot of googling on Thomas and Gregory Cromwell I was taken aback to find out that Gregory married Jane Seymour's sister Elizabeth....the Tudor world was rather a small one times....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Trevor Bale
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
>
>
> Catherine Howard, a relative of the Duke of Norfolk, who I don't
> think we've seen in this series, being chosen from a whorehouse,
> going willingly into the fit, slim young king's bed while Anne of
> Cleves was still queen, and enjoying herself. Anything to get
> Jonathan out of his kit it seems. Anne of Cleves was rather
> attractive too I thought!
> But then this has little to do with history does it?
> Paul
>
> On 25 Sep 2009, at 22:00, Stephen Lark wrote:
>
> > End of "The Tydders" until next August - Cromwell's fall being a
> > suitable cut-off. It didn't actually show him being made Earl of
> > Essex in January 1540 but his son Gregory, Baron Cromwell by
> > December, was shown.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Stephen Lark
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> > Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
> >
> >
> > Series Three ends tonight - and I hold out little hope for
> > Thomas Cromwell.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Paul Trevor Bale
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: The Prince & The
> > Pauper ("The Tydders": Series Three)
> >
> > There as a very funny review for the Tydders in local listings
> > magazine Time Out in London. Check it out online at timeout.com
> > Included remarks like "the costumes for Anne of Cleves remind me of
> > the collars they put on dogs to stop them scratching" and"although
> > complicated English words are used by the people of Cleves nobody
> > can
> > pronounce the simple words like 'and' which always comes out as
> > 'und' "
> > On the nail I think. Made me laugh out loud on the Tube!
> > Paul
> >
> > On 18 Sep 2009, at 15:47, rgcorris wrote:
> >
> >> In the Errol Flynn version of The Prince and the Pauper (1937) they
> >> had twin boys playing the future Edward VI and his doppelganger,
> >> Tom Canty; in the Oliver Reed version (1977) Mark Lester played
> >> both, at the age of nineteen, when the real Prince Edward would
> >> have been aged nine in the year the action was set and died at the
> >> age of fifteen. Mark Twain wasn't writing history and the films
> >> based on his book are about as historically accurate as the current
> >> Tydders TV series, but they had quite a strong cast and are good
> >> entertainment. Nothing to do with the sons of Edward IV though !
> >>
> >> Richard G
> >>
> >> 1977 version -
> >>
> >> Oliver Reed ... Miles Hendon
> >> Raquel Welch ... Lady Edith
> >> Mark Lester ... Prince Edward / Tom Canty
> >> Ernest Borgnine ... John Canty
> >> George C. Scott ... The Ruffler
> >> Rex Harrison ... The Duke of Norfolk
> >> David Hemmings ... Hugh Hendon
> >> Harry Andrews ... Hertford
> >> Julian Orchard ... St. John
> >> Murray Melvin ... Prince's Dresser
> >> Lalla Ward ... Princess Elizabeth
> >> Felicity Dean ... Lady Jane
> >> Sybil Danning ... Mother Canty
> >> Graham Stark ... Jester
> >> Preston Lockwood ... Father Andrew
> >> Arthur Hewlett ... Fat Man
> >> Tommy Wright ... Constable
> >> Harry Fowler ... Nipper
> >> Richard Hurndall ... Archbishop Cranmer
> >> Dan Meaden ... 1st Guard
> >> Tyrone Cassidy ... 2nd Guard
> >> Don Henderson ... Burly Ruffian
> >> Sydney Bromley ... Peasant
> >> Ruth Madoc ... Moll
> >> Dudley Sutton ... Hodge
> >> Roy Evans ... Night Owl
> >> William Lawford ... Mandrake
> >> Peter O'Farrell ... Linklight
> >> Anthony Sharp ... Dr. Buttes
> >> Peter Cellier ... Mean Man
> >> Andrew Lodge ... Captain of the Guard
> >> Igor De Savitch ... Master of Music
> >> Dervis Ward ... Forester
> >> Michael Ripper ... Edith's Servant
> >> Jacques Le Carpentier ... The Mute
> >> Charlton Heston ... Henry VIII
> >>
> >> 1937 version -
> >>
> >> Errol Flynn ... Miles Hendon
> >> Claude Rains ... Earl of Hertford
> >> Henry Stephenson ... Duke of Norfolk
> >> Barton MacLane ... John Canty
> >> Billy Mauch ... Tom Canty
> >> Robert Mauch ... Prince Edward
> >> Alan Hale ... Captain of the Guard
> >> Eric Portman ... First Lord
> >> Lionel Pape ... Second Lord
> >> Leonard Willey ... Third Lord
> >> Murray Kinnell ... Hugo
> >> Halliwell Hobbes ... Archbishop
> >> Phyllis Barry ... Barmaid
> >> Ivan Simpson ... Clemens
> >> Montagu Love ... Henry VIII
> >> Fritz Leiber ... Father Andrew
> >> Elspeth Dudgeon ... Grandmother Canty
> >> Mary Field ... Mrs. Canty
> >> Forrester Harvey ... Meaty Man
> >> Helen Valkis ... Lady Jane Seymour
> >> Lester Matthews ... St. John
> >> Robert Adair ... First Guard
> >> Harry Cording ... Second Guard
> >> Robert Warwick ... Lord Warwick
> >> Rex Evans ... Rich Man
> >> Holmes Herbert ... First Doctor
> >> Ian MacLaren ... Second Doctor
> >> Ann Howard ... Lady Jane Grey
> >> Gwendolyn Jones ... Lady Elizabeth
> >> Lionel Braham ... Ruffler
> >> Harry Beresford ... The Watch
> >> Lionel Belmore ... Innkeeper
> >> Ian Wolf ... Proprietor
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In , "oregonkaty"
> >> <oregon_katy@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> --- In , "rgcorris"
> >>> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The movie version I recall has Oliver Reed in the Errol Flynn
> >>>> role, and a much-too-old Mark Lester as the boys.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Both of them? <g>
> >>>
> >>> Katy
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Richard liveth yet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard liveth yet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>