Henry, Lord Scales?

Another question: was Henry Bourchier, 2nd son of the Earl of Essex, ever Lord Scales?

He married Elizabeth, sole heiress of Thomas Lord Scales.

Thomas died in 1460, but I have dates for Henry Bourchier's death from 1458 to 1462, some sources say he bore the title, others not.

After his death the widow married Anthony Woodville, but again the dates are uncertain, though Woodville definitely used the title before inheriting his fathers Earldom of Rivers.

Found a Henry Bourchier listed in Girders
<http://www.girders.net/index.php> . Here's what it has (very brief):


Henry BOURCHIER (d.1458)





2nd son of Henry, 1st Viscount Bourchier(q.v.).(C.P. XI p.507)

= 1 Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas, 7th Lord Scales(q.v.). (ibid.)

She 2 = Sir Anthony Woodville(q.v.). (ibid.)

Since, it doesn't show that Henry Bourchier was Lord Scales, I would
think not.

It's interesting how imprecise some of the recorded birth's and death's
are. Which source is to be believed, especially when there doesn't seem
to be any surviving contemporary documents?

*shrugs*

Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935

--- In , "theblackprussian"
<theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Another question: was Henry Bourchier, 2nd son of the Earl of Essex,
ever Lord Scales?
>
> He married Elizabeth, sole heiress of Thomas Lord Scales.
>
> Thomas died in 1460, but I have dates for Henry Bourchier's death from
1458 to 1462, some sources say he bore the title, others not.
>
> After his death the widow married Anthony Woodville, but again the
dates are uncertain, though Woodville definitely used the title before
inheriting his fathers Earldom of Rivers.
>

On balance it seems Henry Bourchier died before his father-in-law, so cannot have been Lord Scales, nor born the Scales arms as Freezywater claim.
Anthony Woodville is next up, but nobody is able to confirm when he married the girl, although he was Lord Scales by 1462.

Another quandry:  When was John Neville made Lord Montagu?
According to such as this:
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/NEW_NUM/NORTHUMBERLAND_JOHN_NEVILLE_EAR.html
he was made a Lord in 1460 by Henry VI in who had accepted Neville into his household despite his treason at Blore Heath.
Other sources such as:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY%20MEDIEVAL1.htm#_Toc188245711
insist he was only enobled after Towton by the new King, which would explain why John, and not his elder brother Thomas (killed at Wakefield) was made a Lord.

Any help?

--- On Mon, 15/2/10, Joan <u2nohoo@...> wrote:

From: Joan <u2nohoo@...>
Subject: Re: Henry, Lord Scales?
To:
Date: Monday, 15 February, 2010, 16:40
















 









Found a Henry Bourchier listed in Girders

<http://www.girders. net/index. php> . Here's what it has (very brief):



Henry BOURCHIER (d.1458)



2nd son of Henry, 1st Viscount Bourchier(q. v.).(C.P. XI p.507)



= 1 Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas, 7th Lord Scales(q.v.) . (ibid.)



She 2 = Sir Anthony Woodville(q. v.). (ibid.)



Since, it doesn't show that Henry Bourchier was Lord Scales, I would

think not.



It's interesting how imprecise some of the recorded birth's and death's

are. Which source is to be believed, especially when there doesn't seem

to be any surviving contemporary documents?



*shrugs*



Joan

---

author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century

website: http://www.joanszec htman.com/

blog: http://rtoaaa. blogspot. com/

ebook: http://www.smashwor ds.com/books/ view/3935



--- In richardiiisocietyfo rum@yahoogroups. com, "theblackprussian"

<theblackprussian@ ...> wrote:

>

> Another question: was Henry Bourchier, 2nd son of the Earl of Essex,

ever Lord Scales?

>

> He married Elizabeth, sole heiress of Thomas Lord Scales.

>

> Thomas died in 1460, but I have dates for Henry Bourchier's death from

1458 to 1462, some sources say he bore the title, others not.

>

> After his death the widow married Anthony Woodville, but again the

dates are uncertain, though Woodville definitely used the title before

inheriting his fathers Earldom of Rivers.

>