To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
2010-11-26 13:58:23
Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders, will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on the computer.
From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V, I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
Has anyone read the book, what do you think of the suggestion?
I would appreciate views etc
Many thanks
From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V, I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
Has anyone read the book, what do you think of the suggestion?
I would appreciate views etc
Many thanks
Re: To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
2010-11-26 15:58:19
a visit to bookfinder.com reveals that barnes and noble has a peek inside option, plus the ability to read a sample chapter.
the writing flows fairly easily, from what i read. badder offers an interesting theory but, until i've actually read her book and seen her sources i think she is of the same genre as
http://www.holbeinartworks.org/
roslyn
--- On Fri, 11/26/10, marion cheatham <marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
From: marion cheatham <marioncheatham2003@...>
Subject: To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
To:
Received: Friday, November 26, 2010, 8:58 AM
Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders, will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on the computer.
From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V, I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
Has anyone read the book, what do you think of the suggestion?
I would appreciate views etc
Many thanks
the writing flows fairly easily, from what i read. badder offers an interesting theory but, until i've actually read her book and seen her sources i think she is of the same genre as
http://www.holbeinartworks.org/
roslyn
--- On Fri, 11/26/10, marion cheatham <marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
From: marion cheatham <marioncheatham2003@...>
Subject: To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
To:
Received: Friday, November 26, 2010, 8:58 AM
Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders, will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on the computer.
From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V, I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
Has anyone read the book, what do you think of the suggestion?
I would appreciate views etc
Many thanks
Re: To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
2010-11-26 16:51:54
--- In , marion cheatham <marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
>
> Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders, will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on the computer.
>
> From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V, I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
I haven't read the book, but I have some opinions. Erasmus was born in 1466, most likely. That would make him a full-grown man in 1483.
Though he was born out of wedlock, his parents are known. He was raised by them and give an excellent education in the best monastic or semi-monastic schools, from early childhood.
He had an affinity for languages and though he was famous for his brilliance in Latin, he eventually also became fluent in English, French, and Classical Greek besides, of course Dutch and German.
He was a Biblical scholar and Catholic to the nth degree.
Leaving aside the fact that Erasmus' whereabouts can be traced back to infancy, it's hard to see how one of the York boys could morph into a brilliant Catholic scholar with a gift for languages. I don't know exactly where Erasmus was in 1485, though I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find out, but a quick bit of online skimming shows that in 1487 he was in a monastery near Gouda.
In the Holbein portraits, with his lantern jaw, deep-set eyes, and large sharp nose, he doesn't have the Plantagenet look. (Thomas More does, though, plus the red hair and blue eyes -- look at his famous portrait by Holbein.)
Erasmus as one of Edward IV's sons -- nah.
Nah on John Clement, too. With him, the ages fit even less -- he was born in 1500. His parentage and background are also known. His name comes up as a possibility because of the idea that the Holbein painting of the More household shows one of the Plantagenet boys. John Clement (he was the tutor of the More children and later married More's adopted daughter Margaret Giggs) does not even appear in the pencil sketch on which the original Holbein painting was based, but rather was inserted, leaning in through a doorway, in later copies. (The original painting was lost in a fire long ago.)
Always interesting to explore these theories and what-ifs, though.
Katy
>
> Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders, will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on the computer.
>
> From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V, I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
I haven't read the book, but I have some opinions. Erasmus was born in 1466, most likely. That would make him a full-grown man in 1483.
Though he was born out of wedlock, his parents are known. He was raised by them and give an excellent education in the best monastic or semi-monastic schools, from early childhood.
He had an affinity for languages and though he was famous for his brilliance in Latin, he eventually also became fluent in English, French, and Classical Greek besides, of course Dutch and German.
He was a Biblical scholar and Catholic to the nth degree.
Leaving aside the fact that Erasmus' whereabouts can be traced back to infancy, it's hard to see how one of the York boys could morph into a brilliant Catholic scholar with a gift for languages. I don't know exactly where Erasmus was in 1485, though I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find out, but a quick bit of online skimming shows that in 1487 he was in a monastery near Gouda.
In the Holbein portraits, with his lantern jaw, deep-set eyes, and large sharp nose, he doesn't have the Plantagenet look. (Thomas More does, though, plus the red hair and blue eyes -- look at his famous portrait by Holbein.)
Erasmus as one of Edward IV's sons -- nah.
Nah on John Clement, too. With him, the ages fit even less -- he was born in 1500. His parentage and background are also known. His name comes up as a possibility because of the idea that the Holbein painting of the More household shows one of the Plantagenet boys. John Clement (he was the tutor of the More children and later married More's adopted daughter Margaret Giggs) does not even appear in the pencil sketch on which the original Holbein painting was based, but rather was inserted, leaning in through a doorway, in later copies. (The original painting was lost in a fire long ago.)
Always interesting to explore these theories and what-ifs, though.
Katy
Re: To Know a Lion by his Claws - Edward V
2010-11-26 19:39:33
I might buy the book when I finish the hundred or so various English
history texts I bought over the past two years. Nice to be retired, even
though the reading task I've set myself is maybe a bit too aggressive.
As far as this thread goes, I wonder if Elizabeth of York ever viewed
any of these guys. We can argue that they had changed so much that she
wouldn't recognize them, but I really can't buy that argument. There are
little shibboleths and quirks that can be applied.
On 26/11/2010 11:51 AM, oregon_katy wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, marion cheatham
> <marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
> >
> > Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders,
> will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on
> the computer.
> >
> > From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V,
> I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest
> princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John
> Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
>
> I haven't read the book, but I have some opinions. Erasmus was born in
> 1466, most likely. That would make him a full-grown man in 1483.
>
> Though he was born out of wedlock, his parents are known. He was
> raised by them and give an excellent education in the best monastic or
> semi-monastic schools, from early childhood.
>
> He had an affinity for languages and though he was famous for his
> brilliance in Latin, he eventually also became fluent in English,
> French, and Classical Greek besides, of course Dutch and German.
>
> He was a Biblical scholar and Catholic to the nth degree.
>
> Leaving aside the fact that Erasmus' whereabouts can be traced back to
> infancy, it's hard to see how one of the York boys could morph into a
> brilliant Catholic scholar with a gift for languages. I don't know
> exactly where Erasmus was in 1485, though I'm sure it wouldn't be hard
> to find out, but a quick bit of online skimming shows that in 1487 he
> was in a monastery near Gouda.
>
> In the Holbein portraits, with his lantern jaw, deep-set eyes, and
> large sharp nose, he doesn't have the Plantagenet look. (Thomas More
> does, though, plus the red hair and blue eyes -- look at his famous
> portrait by Holbein.)
>
> Erasmus as one of Edward IV's sons -- nah.
>
> Nah on John Clement, too. With him, the ages fit even less -- he was
> born in 1500. His parentage and background are also known. His name
> comes up as a possibility because of the idea that the Holbein
> painting of the More household shows one of the Plantagenet boys. John
> Clement (he was the tutor of the More children and later married
> More's adopted daughter Margaret Giggs) does not even appear in the
> pencil sketch on which the original Holbein painting was based, but
> rather was inserted, leaning in through a doorway, in later copies.
> (The original painting was lost in a fire long ago.)
>
> Always interesting to explore these theories and what-ifs, though.
>
> Katy
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3281 - Release Date: 11/26/10
>
history texts I bought over the past two years. Nice to be retired, even
though the reading task I've set myself is maybe a bit too aggressive.
As far as this thread goes, I wonder if Elizabeth of York ever viewed
any of these guys. We can argue that they had changed so much that she
wouldn't recognize them, but I really can't buy that argument. There are
little shibboleths and quirks that can be applied.
On 26/11/2010 11:51 AM, oregon_katy wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, marion cheatham
> <marioncheatham2003@...> wrote:
> >
> > Came across a reference to this book on the net, by Sarah Badders,
> will not add a link because when I went to it, all hell broke out on
> the computer.
> >
> > From what I know she suggests that Erasmus could have been Edward V,
> I had heard in the past of the suggestion that Richard the youngest
> princes could have been Richard of Eastwell, Perkin Warbeck or John
> Clemments, but never of any serious discussion of Edward V living.
>
> I haven't read the book, but I have some opinions. Erasmus was born in
> 1466, most likely. That would make him a full-grown man in 1483.
>
> Though he was born out of wedlock, his parents are known. He was
> raised by them and give an excellent education in the best monastic or
> semi-monastic schools, from early childhood.
>
> He had an affinity for languages and though he was famous for his
> brilliance in Latin, he eventually also became fluent in English,
> French, and Classical Greek besides, of course Dutch and German.
>
> He was a Biblical scholar and Catholic to the nth degree.
>
> Leaving aside the fact that Erasmus' whereabouts can be traced back to
> infancy, it's hard to see how one of the York boys could morph into a
> brilliant Catholic scholar with a gift for languages. I don't know
> exactly where Erasmus was in 1485, though I'm sure it wouldn't be hard
> to find out, but a quick bit of online skimming shows that in 1487 he
> was in a monastery near Gouda.
>
> In the Holbein portraits, with his lantern jaw, deep-set eyes, and
> large sharp nose, he doesn't have the Plantagenet look. (Thomas More
> does, though, plus the red hair and blue eyes -- look at his famous
> portrait by Holbein.)
>
> Erasmus as one of Edward IV's sons -- nah.
>
> Nah on John Clement, too. With him, the ages fit even less -- he was
> born in 1500. His parentage and background are also known. His name
> comes up as a possibility because of the idea that the Holbein
> painting of the More household shows one of the Plantagenet boys. John
> Clement (he was the tutor of the More children and later married
> More's adopted daughter Margaret Giggs) does not even appear in the
> pencil sketch on which the original Holbein painting was based, but
> rather was inserted, leaning in through a doorway, in later copies.
> (The original painting was lost in a fire long ago.)
>
> Always interesting to explore these theories and what-ifs, though.
>
> Katy
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3281 - Release Date: 11/26/10
>
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