Richard Legend

I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.

Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!

L.M.L.,
Janet

People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.

Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.

I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.


--- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@...> wrote:
>
> I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
>
> Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>

Indeed.... As has been pointed out, dog bites man isn't a story; but man bites dog... well, that's a story.

Flo


On Dec 7, 2010, at 10:18 AM, vermeertwo wrote:

> People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.
>
> Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.
>
> I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.
>
> --- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@...> wrote:
> >
> > I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
> >
> > Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
> >
> > L.M.L.,
> > Janet
> >
>
>

Blue Boar Inn, on the south side of HIGH HOLBORN. It is
mentioned in the burial register of St. Andrew's, Holborn (in which
parish it stood), as early as 1616. Richard Duke of York, father
of Edward IV., had for one of his badges of cognisance, " a blewe
Bore, with his tuskes, and his cleis, and his membres of gold." It
was also the badge of the Veres, Earls of Oxford. [See Cannon
Street.]
http://www.archive.org/stream/londonpastpresen01wheauoft/londonpastpresen01wheauoft_djvu.txt

--- On Tue, 12/7/10, vermeertwo <hi.dung@...> wrote:


From: vermeertwo <hi.dung@...>
Subject: Re: Richard Legend
To:
Received: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:18 AM


 



People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.

Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.

I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.

--- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@...> wrote:
>
> I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
>
> Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>

addedum
some very interesting reading via this google book, starting on page 377
Historic devices, badges, and war-cries  By Mrs. Bury Palliser
http://books.google.ca/books?id=LFxBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA360&lpg=PA360&dq=cleis+heraldry&source=bl&ots=KkpxqoI4ap&sig=ZYvRso0TWUNOVDvKYsjzfZl0_8A&hl=en&ei=jmn-TODDBcK3nAe-5Py3Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=cleis%20heraldry&f=false
 


--- On Tue, 12/7/10, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:


From: fayre rose <fayreroze@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Richard Legend
To:
Received: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 11:37 AM


 



Blue Boar Inn, on the south side of HIGH HOLBORN. It is
mentioned in the burial register of St. Andrew's, Holborn (in which
parish it stood), as early as 1616. Richard Duke of York, father
of Edward IV., had for one of his badges of cognisance, " a blewe
Bore, with his tuskes, and his cleis, and his membres of gold." It
was also the badge of the Veres, Earls of Oxford. [See Cannon
Street.]
http://www.archive.org/stream/londonpastpresen01wheauoft/londonpastpresen01wheauoft_djvu.txt

--- On Tue, 12/7/10, vermeertwo <hi.dung@...> wrote:

From: vermeertwo <hi.dung@...>
Subject: Re: Richard Legend
To:
Received: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:18 AM

 

People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.

Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.

I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.

--- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@...> wrote:
>
> I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
>
> Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>

The artist MAY be a master of minutia, or he could have been making an obtuse comment about Bosworth, but I suspect the truth is that he got his badges mixed up. I also doubt Richard, Duke of York flew the Blue Boar standard very often in battle.....

--- In , fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
> Blue Boar Inn, on the south side of HIGH HOLBORN. It is
> mentioned in the burial register of St. Andrew's, Holborn (in which
> parish it stood), as early as 1616. Richard Duke of York, father
> of Edward IV., had for one of his badges of cognisance, " a blewe
> Bore, with his tuskes, and his cleis, and his membres of gold." It
> was also the badge of the Veres, Earls of Oxford. [See Cannon
> Street.]
> http://www.archive.org/stream/londonpastpresen01wheauoft/londonpastpresen01wheauoft_djvu.txt
>
> --- On Tue, 12/7/10, vermeertwo <hi.dung@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: vermeertwo <hi.dung@...>
> Subject: Re: Richard Legend
> To:
> Received: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:18 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.
>
> Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.
>
> I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.
>
> --- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@> wrote:
> >
> > I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
> >
> > Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
> >
> > L.M.L.,
> > Janet
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

What annoys me is the Punchinello face used by Olivier for Richard and the exaggerated hunchback in that picture. There may've been a Blue Boar Inn in Richard's day, but I visited a Blue Boar Inn near Temple Grafton, where Shakespeare was married, and it was stated on a leaflet that it was the White Boar Inn until Richard III lost the battle of Bosworth.

In Leicester, `The original Blue Boar Inn was some 200 yards away on the corner of Highcross Street and Blue Boar Lane. It was demolished in the 1830's and replaced by the Blue Boar in Southgate Street. Legend has it that King Richard III slept at the inn on the eve of his march to Bosworth Field in 1485. Another legend claims that King Richard hid £300 in gold coins in the bedstead and these remained undiscovered for many years until a later publican, Thomas Clarke, found them. He kept the Blue Boar Inn with his wife Agnes until his death in 1603. His wife remained in charge of the Blue Boar Inn until the autumn of 1604 when the fugitive Thomas Harrison sought lodgings at the pub. Folklore has it that during his drinking session he got chatting with the Alice Grimbold, a maid employed by Agnes Clarke, who confided that a stash of gold coins were hidden on the premises. Along with some accomplices he waited until Agnes Clarke and the maid were on their own. The villains grabbed them and tied them up. However, licensee Agnes Clarke put up a struggle and screamed for help. In order to silence her Harrison shoved his fingers down her throat which caused her to choke to death. Leaving the maid shackled up, the thieves made off with almost £500 in gold and silver and a manhunt ensued. They were hunted and caught. Harrison was condemned to death for the murder of Agnes Clarke. During the hearing, the maid Alice Grimbold was convicted of being an accomplice and sentenced to be burned at the stake. More details of these historic pubs to follow.....'

http://www.midlandspubs.co.uk/leicestershire/leicester/southgatestreet.htm

Incidentally, if the 1674 bones were proved to be Edward V, it wouldn't exculpate Buckingham as the murderer.


--- In , "yorkistjoe" <joe.schweninger@...> wrote:
>
> The artist MAY be a master of minutia, or he could have been making an obtuse comment about Bosworth, but I suspect the truth is that he got his badges mixed up. I also doubt Richard, Duke of York flew the Blue Boar standard very often in battle.....
>
> --- In , fayre rose <fayreroze@> wrote:
> >
> > Blue Boar Inn, on the south side of HIGH HOLBORN. It is
> > mentioned in the burial register of St. Andrew's, Holborn (in which
> > parish it stood), as early as 1616. Richard Duke of York, father
> > of Edward IV., had for one of his badges of cognisance, " a blewe
> > Bore, with his tuskes, and his cleis, and his membres of gold." It
> > was also the badge of the Veres, Earls of Oxford. [See Cannon
> > Street.]
> > http://www.archive.org/stream/londonpastpresen01wheauoft/londonpastpresen01wheauoft_djvu.txt
> >
> > --- On Tue, 12/7/10, vermeertwo <hi.dung@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: vermeertwo <hi.dung@>
> > Subject: Re: Richard Legend
> > To:
> > Received: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:18 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.
> >
> > Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.
> >
> > I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.
> >
> > --- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
> > >
> > > Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
> > >
> > > L.M.L.,
> > > Janet
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

personally, i do not like the depiction of richard with regards to article. i believe the blue boar is the artist's mocking of richard. de vere was tudor's commander at bosworth. he may have flown a blue boar banner.
 
but, i do find it interesting that white boar inns became blue boar inns. it causes me to ponder if some of innkeepers/owners altered the colour not so much as to appease or mark the tudor victory, but instead went blue as a subliminal way to continue to show their yorkist support.
 
moreover, the colour blue was a rare and expensive hue. they could have more economically chosen green or red, etc.
 
roslyn

--- On Wed, 12/8/10, vermeertwo <hi.dung@...> wrote:


From: vermeertwo <hi.dung@...>
Subject: Re: Richard Legend
To:
Received: Wednesday, December 8, 2010, 11:12 AM


 



What annoys me is the Punchinello face used by Olivier for Richard and the exaggerated hunchback in that picture. There may've been a Blue Boar Inn in Richard's day, but I visited a Blue Boar Inn near Temple Grafton, where Shakespeare was married, and it was stated on a leaflet that it was the White Boar Inn until Richard III lost the battle of Bosworth.

In Leicester, `The original Blue Boar Inn was some 200 yards away on the corner of Highcross Street and Blue Boar Lane. It was demolished in the 1830's and replaced by the Blue Boar in Southgate Street. Legend has it that King Richard III slept at the inn on the eve of his march to Bosworth Field in 1485. Another legend claims that King Richard hid £300 in gold coins in the bedstead and these remained undiscovered for many years until a later publican, Thomas Clarke, found them. He kept the Blue Boar Inn with his wife Agnes until his death in 1603. His wife remained in charge of the Blue Boar Inn until the autumn of 1604 when the fugitive Thomas Harrison sought lodgings at the pub. Folklore has it that during his drinking session he got chatting with the Alice Grimbold, a maid employed by Agnes Clarke, who confided that a stash of gold coins were hidden on the premises. Along with some accomplices he waited until Agnes Clarke and the maid were on their
own. The villains grabbed them and tied them up. However, licensee Agnes Clarke put up a struggle and screamed for help. In order to silence her Harrison shoved his fingers down her throat which caused her to choke to death. Leaving the maid shackled up, the thieves made off with almost £500 in gold and silver and a manhunt ensued. They were hunted and caught. Harrison was condemned to death for the murder of Agnes Clarke. During the hearing, the maid Alice Grimbold was convicted of being an accomplice and sentenced to be burned at the stake. More details of these historic pubs to follow.....'

http://www.midlandspubs.co.uk/leicestershire/leicester/southgatestreet.htm

Incidentally, if the 1674 bones were proved to be Edward V, it wouldn't exculpate Buckingham as the murderer.

--- In , "yorkistjoe" <joe.schweninger@...> wrote:
>
> The artist MAY be a master of minutia, or he could have been making an obtuse comment about Bosworth, but I suspect the truth is that he got his badges mixed up. I also doubt Richard, Duke of York flew the Blue Boar standard very often in battle.....
>
> --- In , fayre rose <fayreroze@> wrote:
> >
> > Blue Boar Inn, on the south side of HIGH HOLBORN. It is
> > mentioned in the burial register of St. Andrew's, Holborn (in which
> > parish it stood), as early as 1616. Richard Duke of York, father
> > of Edward IV., had for one of his badges of cognisance, " a blewe
> > Bore, with his tuskes, and his cleis, and his membres of gold." It
> > was also the badge of the Veres, Earls of Oxford. [See Cannon
> > Street.]
> > http://www.archive.org/stream/londonpastpresen01wheauoft/londonpastpresen01wheauoft_djvu.txt
> >
> > --- On Tue, 12/7/10, vermeertwo <hi.dung@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: vermeertwo <hi.dung@>
> > Subject: Re: Richard Legend
> > To:
> > Received: Tuesday, December 7, 2010, 10:18 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > People often love to dramatise events, as an example, the Titanic disaster, 1912, has been turned into a romantic tragedy, even though, I'd say, it was more a piece of arrogant, stupid navigation with the ship sailing full speed into an eight mile long ice field, as the two investigations concluded.
> >
> > Shakespeare's Richard III is good theatre with a super evil Richard; a more decent Richard is more prosaic, so not so interesting to the tabloid type mentality.
> >
> > I've read that all those hostelries with Richard III's white boar insignia rapidly painted the boars blue when Richard lost at Bosworth.
> >
> > --- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I followed the link provided by Vermeer2 and imagine my surprise to see Geoff Wheeler credited with that picture. And they have a blue boar - which is the device of the Earls of Oxford.
> > >
> > > Even the people who think Richard III was a villan can't get things right!
> > >
> > > L.M.L.,
> > > Janet
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>