The three Queen Elizabeths
The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 16:53:24
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
Richard
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 19:02:50
My name is quite similar in that respect - there was the Count of Blois who became King in 1135, then Bishop Gardiner (Simon Ward on "The Tudors") - and nobody else famous until about 100 years ago.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 4:53 PM
Subject: The three Queen Elizabeths
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 4:53 PM
Subject: The three Queen Elizabeths
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 20:19:57
Interesting point - especially to me since my name is Elizabeth!
________________________________
From: Richard <RSG_Corris@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011 16:53:22
Subject: The three Queen Elizabeths
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed
by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century
or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and
Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word
? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
________________________________
From: Richard <RSG_Corris@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011 16:53:22
Subject: The three Queen Elizabeths
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed
by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century
or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and
Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word
? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 20:40:54
It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth, William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of Suffolk; and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
>
> Richard
>
As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
>
> Richard
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 20:49:03
Hi, Susan.
Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
Best wishes,
Judy
________________________________
From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of Suffolk;
and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed
>by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century
>or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and
>Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
>may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
>before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word
>? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
>how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
>
>
> Richard
>
Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
Best wishes,
Judy
________________________________
From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of Suffolk;
and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed
>by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century
>or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and
>Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
>may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
>before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word
>? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
>how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
>
>
> Richard
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 20:56:40
You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it here previously):
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Susan.
>
> Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
>
> Best wishes,
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
> William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
> fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
> Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of Suffolk;
> and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
>
> As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
> Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed
> >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century
> >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and
> >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
> >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
> >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word
> >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
> >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> >
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Susan.
>
> Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
>
> Best wishes,
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
> William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
> fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
> Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of Suffolk;
> and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
>
> As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
> Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed
> >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century
> >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and
> >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
> >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
> >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word
> >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
> >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> >
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 21:20:24
"The name was particularly
popular in the Middle Ages, notably after the canonization of Elisabeth,
Duchess of Thuringia around 1230.
Dictionary
of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4"
from http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Elizabeth-name-meaning.ashx
Sheffe
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Richard <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
From: Richard <RSG_Corris@...>
Subject: The three Queen Elizabeths
To:
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 11:53 AM
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
popular in the Middle Ages, notably after the canonization of Elisabeth,
Duchess of Thuringia around 1230.
Dictionary
of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4"
from http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Elizabeth-name-meaning.ashx
Sheffe
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Richard <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
From: Richard <RSG_Corris@...>
Subject: The three Queen Elizabeths
To:
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 11:53 AM
England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
Richard
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 21:26:12
Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My personal
fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing a book,
also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
Judy
________________________________
From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it
here previously):
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Susan.
>
> Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
>
> Best wishes,
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
>
> William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
>
> fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
> Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of
>Suffolk;
>
> and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
>
> As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
> Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter)
>followed
>
> >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a
>century
>
> >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York
>and
>
> >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
>
> >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
> >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the
>word
>
> >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
>
> >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> >
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing a book,
also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
Judy
________________________________
From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it
here previously):
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Susan.
>
> Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
>
> Best wishes,
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
>
> William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
>
> fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
> Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of
>Suffolk;
>
> and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
>
> As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
> Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter)
>followed
>
> >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a
>century
>
> >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York
>and
>
> >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
>
> >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
> >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the
>word
>
> >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
>
> >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> >
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 21:40:55
Good to have you here, Judy! I'm a writer myself. Those of us who write books set in this period should be grateful to have the occasional Frideswide in a sea of Elizabeths, Margarets, and Katherines. I would love an excuse to put Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester's daughter Antigone in a novel.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan <shigginbotham2@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan <shigginbotham2@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter Elizabeth,
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In the
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to the
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-08 21:54:24
That's wonderful! Did she, you know, act up?
: ) Judy
________________________________
From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 3:40:48 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
Good to have you here, Judy! I'm a writer myself. Those of us who write books
set in this period should be grateful to have the occasional Frideswide in a sea
of Elizabeths, Margarets, and Katherines. I would love an excuse to put
Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester's daughter Antigone in a novel.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan <shigginbotham2@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter
>Elizabeth,
>
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In
>the
>
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
>
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to
>the
>
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York
>
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and
>there
>
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens.
>But
>
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy,
>and
>
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
: ) Judy
________________________________
From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 3:40:48 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
Good to have you here, Judy! I'm a writer myself. Those of us who write books
set in this period should be grateful to have the occasional Frideswide in a sea
of Elizabeths, Margarets, and Katherines. I would love an excuse to put
Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester's daughter Antigone in a novel.
Susan Higginbotham
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan <shigginbotham2@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan <shigginbotham2@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter
>Elizabeth,
>
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember offhand). In
>the
>
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford; Elizabeth
>
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my index to
>the
>
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York
>
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and
>there
>
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens.
>But
>
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy,
>and
>
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-09 01:27:03
Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
interesting and useful.
Behind the Name has this etymology
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
"From Ελισαβετ
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elis\
abet> (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
×ֱלִיש×Ö¶×`Ö·×¢
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E\
%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22> ('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in the
New Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians, this
name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
12th century by Saint <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in honour
of the saint, though the form Isabel
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provençal and
Spanish) was more common."
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My
personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing
a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan shigginbotham2@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward
I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter
Elizabeth,
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
offhand). In the
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford;
Elizabeth
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess
of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
index to the
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators
were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard"
<RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course
of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
Elizabeth of York
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
Woodville, and there
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
Queens. But
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
aristocracy, and
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
interesting and useful.
Behind the Name has this etymology
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
"From Ελισαβετ
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elis\
abet> (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
×ֱלִיש×Ö¶×`Ö·×¢
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E\
%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22> ('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in the
New Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians, this
name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
12th century by Saint <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in honour
of the saint, though the form Isabel
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provençal and
Spanish) was more common."
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My
personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing
a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan shigginbotham2@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward
I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter
Elizabeth,
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
offhand). In the
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford;
Elizabeth
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess
of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
index to the
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators
were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard"
<RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course
of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
Elizabeth of York
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
Woodville, and there
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
Queens. But
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
aristocracy, and
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-09 01:41:55
--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
>
> Richard
>
Carol responds:
I would venture to guess that quite a number of girls were named after St. Elizabeth, mother of John the Baptist, particularly if they were born on her feast day, November 5 (or had a mother or godmother named Elizabeth). It was a common name for the same reason that Mary, Anne, James, and John were (also Edward after the Saxon king Edward the Confessor was canonized).
Carol, who thinks that a reliance on biblical first names is one reason that we keep encountering the same first names in English history
>
> England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and daughter) followed by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course of a century or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth Woodville, and there may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the Queens. But before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both senses of the word ? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin aristocracy, and how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
>
> Richard
>
Carol responds:
I would venture to guess that quite a number of girls were named after St. Elizabeth, mother of John the Baptist, particularly if they were born on her feast day, November 5 (or had a mother or godmother named Elizabeth). It was a common name for the same reason that Mary, Anne, James, and John were (also Edward after the Saxon king Edward the Confessor was canonized).
Carol, who thinks that a reliance on biblical first names is one reason that we keep encountering the same first names in English history
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-09 18:16:20
Hi, Joan!
Since it was your book (and subsequent friendship) that precipitated my joining
this Forum et al., I thank you "as heartily as is to me possible," !
[This Time is a marvelous entry to the Ricardian experience--more accurate, by
far, than Daughter of Time, which was my entry in the '70s, after I watched
Olivier on PBS and had a weird, provocative dream about a "different Richard." A
work colleague lent me Daughter, and the rest was, well, history.
[I give Joan's book 5 Stars on the Thomson Scale. Joan was as meticulous in her
research as an historical scholar, and I, for one, really appreciate such due
diligence and care. I intend to pre-order her next book....]
Love, Judy T.
________________________________
From: joanszechtman <u2nohoo@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:27:00 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
interesting and useful.
Behind the Name has this etymology
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
"From ˜M‚ý*>ÿ
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elisabet>
(Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
—ôÇg¬ˆ„g@è
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22>
('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in the
New Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians, this
name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
12th century by Saint <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in honour
of the saint, though the form Isabel
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provenðl and
Spanish) was more common."
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My
personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing
a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan shigginbotham2@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward
I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter
Elizabeth,
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
offhand). In the
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford;
Elizabeth
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess
of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
index to the
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators
were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard"
<RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course
of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
Elizabeth of York
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
Woodville, and there
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
Queens. But
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
aristocracy, and
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Since it was your book (and subsequent friendship) that precipitated my joining
this Forum et al., I thank you "as heartily as is to me possible," !
[This Time is a marvelous entry to the Ricardian experience--more accurate, by
far, than Daughter of Time, which was my entry in the '70s, after I watched
Olivier on PBS and had a weird, provocative dream about a "different Richard." A
work colleague lent me Daughter, and the rest was, well, history.
[I give Joan's book 5 Stars on the Thomson Scale. Joan was as meticulous in her
research as an historical scholar, and I, for one, really appreciate such due
diligence and care. I intend to pre-order her next book....]
Love, Judy T.
________________________________
From: joanszechtman <u2nohoo@...>
To:
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:27:00 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
interesting and useful.
Behind the Name has this etymology
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
"From ˜M‚ý*>ÿ
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elisabet>
(Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
—ôÇg¬ˆ„g@è
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22>
('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in the
New Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians, this
name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
12th century by Saint <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in honour
of the saint, though the form Isabel
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provenðl and
Spanish) was more common."
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names. My
personal
> fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
>
> I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm writing
a book,
> also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
>
> Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Susan shigginbotham2@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
mentioned it
> here previously):
>
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
>
> Susan Higginbotham
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Susan.
> >
> > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes. Edward
I had a
> > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
Gilbert de
> > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's daughter
Elizabeth,
> >
> > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
daughter
> > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
offhand). In the
> >
> > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of Oxford;
Elizabeth
> > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth, Duchess
of
> >Suffolk;
> >
> > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> >
> > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
index to the
>
> > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the testators
were
> > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
mentioned.
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , "Richard"
<RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
daughter)
> >followed
> >
> > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the course
of a
> >century
> >
> > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
Elizabeth of York
> >and
> >
> > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
Woodville, and there
> >
> > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
Queens. But
>
> > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
senses of the
> >word
> >
> > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
aristocracy, and
> >
> > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-09 19:24:28
Thank you Judy. Although, I have to say that new information about
Richard III and those times has come to light since Tey wrote "Daughter
of Time" in 1951 (?). Let's not forget how many people still believe the
tower bones are those of the princes despite evidence garnered
subsequent to the bones' examination in 1933 that challenges this
assumption. As writers and Ricardians, I think it's our obligation to
try to be as accurate as possible. That doesn't mean our speculations
and interpretations won't vary, but they should work with what is known.
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Joan!
>
> Since it was your book (and subsequent friendship) that precipitated
my joining
> this Forum et al., I thank you "as heartily as is to me possible," !
>
> [This Time is a marvelous entry to the Ricardian experience--more
accurate, by
> far, than Daughter of Time, which was my entry in the '70s, after I
watched
> Olivier on PBS and had a weird, provocative dream about a "different
Richard." A
> work colleague lent me Daughter, and the rest was, well, history.
>
> [I give Joan's book 5 Stars on the Thomson Scale. Joan was as
meticulous in her
> research as an historical scholar, and I, for one, really appreciate
such due
> diligence and care. I intend to pre-order her next book....]
>
> Love, Judy T.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: joanszechtman u2nohoo@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:27:00 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
> interesting and useful.
>
> Behind the Name has this etymology
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
>
> "From 螘ä½å–‚蟽伪尾è"šèŸ¿
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elis\
abet>
> (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
> è®—ç›´è¯‡æ‰§è®¬ç –è®ˆä¾„è§å€æ³¨
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E\
%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22>
> ('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
> perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
> Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
> where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in
the
> New Testament
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
> where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians,
this
> name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
> 12th century by Saint
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
> Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
> to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in
honour
> of the saint, though the form Isabel
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provené°l and
> Spanish) was more common."
>
> Joan
> ---
> author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
> 2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
> website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
> blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
> ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names.
My
> personal
> > fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
> >
> > I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm
writing
> a book,
> > also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
> >
> > Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
> mentioned it
> > here previously):
> >
> > http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson
> > judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Susan.
> > >
> > > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Judy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: The three Queen
Elizabeths
> > >
> > >
> > > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes.
Edward
> I had a
> > > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
> Gilbert de
> > > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's
daughter
> Elizabeth,
> > >
> > > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
> daughter
> > > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
> offhand). In the
> > >
> > > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of
Oxford;
> Elizabeth
> > > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth,
Duchess
> of
> > >Suffolk;
> > >
> > > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> > >
> > > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
> index to the
> >
> > > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the
testators
> were
> > > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
> mentioned.
> > >
> > > Susan Higginbotham
> > >
> > > --- In , "Richard"
> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
> daughter)
> > >followed
> > >
> > > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the
course
> of a
> > >century
> > >
> > > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
> Elizabeth of York
> > >and
> > >
> > > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
> Woodville, and there
> > >
> > > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
> Queens. But
> >
> > > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
> senses of the
> > >word
> > >
> > > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
> aristocracy, and
> > >
> > > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Richard III and those times has come to light since Tey wrote "Daughter
of Time" in 1951 (?). Let's not forget how many people still believe the
tower bones are those of the princes despite evidence garnered
subsequent to the bones' examination in 1933 that challenges this
assumption. As writers and Ricardians, I think it's our obligation to
try to be as accurate as possible. That doesn't mean our speculations
and interpretations won't vary, but they should work with what is known.
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Joan!
>
> Since it was your book (and subsequent friendship) that precipitated
my joining
> this Forum et al., I thank you "as heartily as is to me possible," !
>
> [This Time is a marvelous entry to the Ricardian experience--more
accurate, by
> far, than Daughter of Time, which was my entry in the '70s, after I
watched
> Olivier on PBS and had a weird, provocative dream about a "different
Richard." A
> work colleague lent me Daughter, and the rest was, well, history.
>
> [I give Joan's book 5 Stars on the Thomson Scale. Joan was as
meticulous in her
> research as an historical scholar, and I, for one, really appreciate
such due
> diligence and care. I intend to pre-order her next book....]
>
> Love, Judy T.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: joanszechtman u2nohoo@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:27:00 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
> interesting and useful.
>
> Behind the Name has this etymology
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
>
> "From 螘ä½å–‚蟽伪尾è"šèŸ¿
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elis\
abet>
> (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
> è®—ç›´è¯‡æ‰§è®¬ç –è®ˆä¾„è§å€æ³¨
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E\
%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22>
> ('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
> perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
> Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
> where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in
the
> New Testament
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
> where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians,
this
> name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
> 12th century by Saint
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
> Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
> to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in
honour
> of the saint, though the form Isabel
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provené°l and
> Spanish) was more common."
>
> Joan
> ---
> author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
> 2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
> website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
> blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
> ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names.
My
> personal
> > fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
> >
> > I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm
writing
> a book,
> > also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
> >
> > Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
> mentioned it
> > here previously):
> >
> > http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson
> > judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Susan.
> > >
> > > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Judy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: The three Queen
Elizabeths
> > >
> > >
> > > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes.
Edward
> I had a
> > > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
> Gilbert de
> > > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's
daughter
> Elizabeth,
> > >
> > > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
> daughter
> > > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
> offhand). In the
> > >
> > > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of
Oxford;
> Elizabeth
> > > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth,
Duchess
> of
> > >Suffolk;
> > >
> > > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> > >
> > > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
> index to the
> >
> > > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the
testators
> were
> > > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
> mentioned.
> > >
> > > Susan Higginbotham
> > >
> > > --- In , "Richard"
> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
> daughter)
> > >followed
> > >
> > > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the
course
> of a
> > >century
> > >
> > > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
> Elizabeth of York
> > >and
> > >
> > > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
> Woodville, and there
> > >
> > > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
> Queens. But
> >
> > > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
> senses of the
> > >word
> > >
> > > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
> aristocracy, and
> > >
> > > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
2011-03-09 20:22:30
I'd intended to make clear that Daughter of Time was based on old info, but I
seem to have edited that out, in the interest of brevity.
Originally I wrote "we've learned a lot since the '70s, making Daughter somewhat
obsolete," but my sentences clunked along, and I wanted to include mention of my
co-worker, who recently passed away. Diane Van Staveran brought in the book on a
Tuesday morning, after I told her on Monday about my weird dream. This was/is
very important to me, and I wish I recalled the exact date in 1978. Sorry this
event took precedence : (
[I'd hoped the diff in time between my original entre and a much more recent
book would sorta speak for itself, as in: This is all I had to start with; you
guys are so fortunate, now. But I guess it was unclear. Diane sent me on to
Kendall, my first serious "history," as I imply with the denouement to that
paragraph : )
________________________________
From: joanszechtman <u2nohoo@...>
To:
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 1:24:21 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
Thank you Judy. Although, I have to say that new information about
Richard III and those times has come to light since Tey wrote "Daughter
of Time" in 1951 (?). Let's not forget how many people still believe the
tower bones are those of the princes despite evidence garnered
subsequent to the bones' examination in 1933 that challenges this
assumption. As writers and Ricardians, I think it's our obligation to
try to be as accurate as possible. That doesn't mean our speculations
and interpretations won't vary, but they should work with what is known.
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Joan!
>
> Since it was your book (and subsequent friendship) that precipitated
my joining
> this Forum et al., I thank you "as heartily as is to me possible," !
>
> [This Time is a marvelous entry to the Ricardian experience--more
accurate, by
> far, than Daughter of Time, which was my entry in the '70s, after I
watched
> Olivier on PBS and had a weird, provocative dream about a "different
Richard." A
> work colleague lent me Daughter, and the rest was, well, history.
>
> [I give Joan's book 5 Stars on the Thomson Scale. Joan was as
meticulous in her
> research as an historical scholar, and I, for one, really appreciate
such due
> diligence and care. I intend to pre-order her next book....]
>
> Love, Judy T.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: joanszechtman u2nohoo@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:27:00 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
> interesting and useful.
>
> Behind the Name has this etymology
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
>
> "From è~Üä½ýåèx½ä¼ªå°¾è"aèx¿
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elisabet>
> (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
> è®ç:´è¯!æ0§è®¬ç è®Æä¾ è§åý¬æ³¨
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22>
> ('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
> perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
> Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
> where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in
the
> New Testament
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
> where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians,
this
> name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
> 12th century by Saint
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
> Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
> to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in
honour
> of the saint, though the form Isabel
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provenéý°l and
> Spanish) was more common."
>
> Joan
> ---
> author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
> 2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
> website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
> blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
> ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names.
My
> personal
> > fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
> >
> > I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm
writing
> a book,
> > also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
> >
> > Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
> mentioned it
> > here previously):
> >
> > http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson
> > judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Susan.
> > >
> > > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Judy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: The three Queen
Elizabeths
> > >
> > >
> > > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes.
Edward
> I had a
> > > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
> Gilbert de
> > > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's
daughter
> Elizabeth,
> > >
> > > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
> daughter
> > > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
> offhand). In the
> > >
> > > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of
Oxford;
> Elizabeth
> > > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth,
Duchess
> of
> > >Suffolk;
> > >
> > > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> > >
> > > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
> index to the
> >
> > > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the
testators
> were
> > > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
> mentioned.
> > >
> > > Susan Higginbotham
> > >
> > > --- In , "Richard"
> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
> daughter)
> > >followed
> > >
> > > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the
course
> of a
> > >century
> > >
> > > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
> Elizabeth of York
> > >and
> > >
> > > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
> Woodville, and there
> > >
> > > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
> Queens. But
> >
> > > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
> senses of the
> > >word
> > >
> > > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
> aristocracy, and
> > >
> > > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
seem to have edited that out, in the interest of brevity.
Originally I wrote "we've learned a lot since the '70s, making Daughter somewhat
obsolete," but my sentences clunked along, and I wanted to include mention of my
co-worker, who recently passed away. Diane Van Staveran brought in the book on a
Tuesday morning, after I told her on Monday about my weird dream. This was/is
very important to me, and I wish I recalled the exact date in 1978. Sorry this
event took precedence : (
[I'd hoped the diff in time between my original entre and a much more recent
book would sorta speak for itself, as in: This is all I had to start with; you
guys are so fortunate, now. But I guess it was unclear. Diane sent me on to
Kendall, my first serious "history," as I imply with the denouement to that
paragraph : )
________________________________
From: joanszechtman <u2nohoo@...>
To:
Sent: Wed, March 9, 2011 1:24:21 PM
Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
Thank you Judy. Although, I have to say that new information about
Richard III and those times has come to light since Tey wrote "Daughter
of Time" in 1951 (?). Let's not forget how many people still believe the
tower bones are those of the princes despite evidence garnered
subsequent to the bones' examination in 1933 that challenges this
assumption. As writers and Ricardians, I think it's our obligation to
try to be as accurate as possible. That doesn't mean our speculations
and interpretations won't vary, but they should work with what is known.
Joan
---
author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Joan!
>
> Since it was your book (and subsequent friendship) that precipitated
my joining
> this Forum et al., I thank you "as heartily as is to me possible," !
>
> [This Time is a marvelous entry to the Ricardian experience--more
accurate, by
> far, than Daughter of Time, which was my entry in the '70s, after I
watched
> Olivier on PBS and had a weird, provocative dream about a "different
Richard." A
> work colleague lent me Daughter, and the rest was, well, history.
>
> [I give Joan's book 5 Stars on the Thomson Scale. Joan was as
meticulous in her
> research as an historical scholar, and I, for one, really appreciate
such due
> diligence and care. I intend to pre-order her next book....]
>
> Love, Judy T.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: joanszechtman u2nohoo@...
> To:
> Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:27:00 PM
> Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
>
>
> Shout out to Judy--welcome! I hope you find this discussion group
> interesting and useful.
>
> Behind the Name has this etymology
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/elizabeth> for Elizabeth:
>
> "From è~Üä½ýåèx½ä¼ªå°¾è"aèx¿
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=GR&target=Elisabet>
> (Elisabet), the Greek form of the Hebrew name
> è®ç:´è¯!æ0§è®¬ç è®Æä¾ è§åý¬æ³¨
>
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=HB&target=%27E%5E%5Eliys%5Ee%5Eba%5E%22>
> ('Elisheva') meaning "my God is an oath" or
> perhaps "my God is abundance". The Hebrew form appears in the Old
> Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>
> where Elisheba is the wife of Aaron, while the Greek form appears in
the
> New Testament
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/new_testament>
> where Elizabeth is the mother of John the Baptist.Among Christians,
this
> name was originally more common in Eastern Europe. It was borne in the
> 12th century by Saint
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/saint>
> Elizabeth of Hungary, a daughter of King Andrew II who used her wealth
> to help the poor. In medieval England it was occasionally used in
honour
> of the saint, though the form Isabel
> <http://www.behindthename.com/name/isabel> (from Provenéý°l and
> Spanish) was more common."
>
> Joan
> ---
> author of This Time, a novel about Richard III in the 21st-century
> 2010 Next Generation Indie Book Awards General Fiction Finalist
> website: http://www.joanszechtman.com/
> blog: http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/
> ebook: http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/3935
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson
> judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> >
> > Thanks! I was just weighing in on the general discussion of names.
My
> personal
> > fave is Lovell's sister, Frideswide.
> >
> > I'm a newbie, referred by a writer friend in the Society; I'm
writing
> a book,
> > also...like some other people here, I imagine : )
> >
> > Enjoy following mostly, but every now and then....
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > To:
> > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:56:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: The three Queen Elizabeths
> >
> >
> > You might also find this site helpful (apologies if someone has
> mentioned it
> > here previously):
> >
> > http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/english.shtml
> >
> > Susan Higginbotham
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson
> > judygerard.thomson@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Susan.
> > >
> > > Excellent answer. Wills are very good sources for names.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Judy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Susan shigginbotham2@
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 2:40:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: The three Queen
Elizabeths
> > >
> > >
> > > It was a quite common name among the royal and noble classes.
Edward
> I had a
> > > daughter named Elizabeth. In the fourteenth century, there were
> Gilbert de
> > > Clare's daughter Elizabeth, Hugh le Despenser the younger's
daughter
> Elizabeth,
> > >
> > > William de Montacute's daughter Elizabeth, and John of Gaunt's
> daughter
> > > Elizabeth by Blanche of Lancaster (to name the ones I remember
> offhand). In the
> > >
> > > fifteenth century, there were Elizabeth Howard, Countess of
Oxford;
> Elizabeth
> > > Berkeley, Countess of Warwick; Edward IV's sister Elizabeth,
Duchess
> of
> > >Suffolk;
> > >
> > > and Elizabeth Talbot, Duchess of Norfolk.
> > >
> > > As for Elizabeths from the gentry on down, in flipping through my
> index to the
> >
> > > Society's Logge Register of PCC Wills, where a lot of the
testators
> were
> > > tradesmen, gentlemen, and esquires, I see quite a few Elizabeths
> mentioned.
> > >
> > > Susan Higginbotham
> > >
> > > --- In , "Richard"
> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > England had two Queen Consorts called Elizabeth (mother and
> daughter)
> > >followed
> > >
> > > >by a Queen Regnant called Elizabeth (grandaughter) over the
course
> of a
> > >century
> > >
> > > >or so, over four generations of direct descent. Presumably
> Elizabeth of York
> > >and
> > >
> > > >Elizabeth Tudor received their names because of Elizabeth
> Woodville, and there
> > >
> > > >may well have been many commoners named after one or other of the
> Queens. But
> >
> > > >before Elizabeth Woodville, how common was the name - in both
> senses of the
> > >word
> > >
> > > >? Was it a name in use in the still essentially French-origin
> aristocracy, and
> > >
> > > >how widespread was it among the lower classes ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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