Richard's baptismal records

Does anyone know if the record of Richard's baptism is extant? I know that Edward's and Edmund's are, so why not Richard's? I'd be curious to know how soon after his birth it occurred and who his godparents were.

Carol, who, unsurprisingly, can't find any info on the subject on the Internet

Carol,

Just a guess, but these records may be extant at a church at or near
Fotheringhay....

Family "history" said my husband's grandmother was born in Aberdeen, Scotland;
turns out, we had to visit little Stone Haven to find the real records.

I'm CCing to a pro researcher, who may have further suggestions (?) which I can
post to you.

But no promises, mia amica ; )

Judy



________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:02:36 AM
Subject: Richard's baptismal records


Does anyone know if the record of Richard's baptism is extant? I know that
Edward's and Edmund's are, so why not Richard's? I'd be curious to know how soon
after his birth it occurred and who his godparents were.

Carol, who, unsurprisingly, can't find any info on the subject on the Internet

We have info on Edward and Edmund's baptisms from the Rouen records - Edmund, of course, was baptised in the cathedral.
There are no baptism registers as such from this period (Henry VIII got that started as a snooping exercise), so unless a baptism happened to have been noted in a surviving cathedral register, or in a more general source (as a social occasion) we won't know about it. Fotheringhay was a fairly isolated place and Richard would surely have been baptised either in the castle chapel or in the collegiate church. But York was in sort of dishonourable retirement at the time and so it would have been a quiet family affair.
It would be nice to know who his godparents were, though, wouldn't it? If we ever find the lost original dispensation for Richard and Anne's marriage that would at least tell us whether either the
Earl or Countess of Warwick were amongst them since that would have created an impediment to Richard and Anne's marriage.
Marie

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Carol,
>
> Just a guess, but these records may be extant at a church at or near
> Fotheringhay....
>
> Family "history" said my husband's grandmother was born in Aberdeen, Scotland;
> turns out, we had to visit little Stone Haven to find the real records.
>
> I'm CCing to a pro researcher, who may have further suggestions (?) which I can
> post to you.
>
> But no promises, mia amica ; )
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:02:36 AM
> Subject: Richard's baptismal records
>
>
> Does anyone know if the record of Richard's baptism is extant? I know that
> Edward's and Edmund's are, so why not Richard's? I'd be curious to know how soon
> after his birth it occurred and who his godparents were.
>
> Carol, who, unsurprisingly, can't find any info on the subject on the Internet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Marie wrote:
>
> We have info on Edward and Edmund's baptisms from the Rouen records - Edmund, of course, was baptised in the cathedral. There are no baptism registers as such from this period (Henry VIII got that started as a snooping exercise), so unless a baptism happened to have been noted in a surviving cathedral register, or in a more general source (as a social occasion) we won't know about it. Fotheringhay was a fairly isolated place and Richard would surely have been baptised either in the castle chapel or in the collegiate church. But York was in sort of dishonourable retirement at the time and so it would have been a quiet family affair.
> It would be nice to know who his godparents were, though, wouldn't it? If we ever find the lost original dispensation for Richard and Anne's marriage that would at least tell us whether either the Earl or Countess of Warwick were amongst them since that would have created an impediment to Richard and Anne's marriage.

Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol,
> >
> > Just a guess, but these records may be extant at a church at or near Fotheringhay....
<snip>
> > I'm CCing to a pro researcher, who may have further suggestions (?) which I can post to you.
> >
> > But no promises, mia amica ; )

Carol responds to both:

Thanks, both of you. I guess we can cancel the pro researcher request. Sigh! So much for the advantages of having been born in England as opposed to Rouen (or Dublin, like George).

Just out of curiosity, do we know the godparents of either Edward or Edmund?

Carol, hoping that the missing papal dispensation will turn up

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> Marie wrote:
> >
> > We have info on Edward and Edmund's baptisms from the Rouen records - Edmund, of course, was baptised in the cathedral. There are no baptism registers as such from this period (Henry VIII got that started as a snooping exercise), so unless a baptism happened to have been noted in a surviving cathedral register, or in a more general source (as a social occasion) we won't know about it. Fotheringhay was a fairly isolated place and Richard would surely have been baptised either in the castle chapel or in the collegiate church. But York was in sort of dishonourable retirement at the time and so it would have been a quiet family affair.
> > It would be nice to know who his godparents were, though, wouldn't it? If we ever find the lost original dispensation for Richard and Anne's marriage that would at least tell us whether either the Earl or Countess of Warwick were amongst them since that would have created an impediment to Richard and Anne's marriage.
>
> Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carol,
> > >
> > > Just a guess, but these records may be extant at a church at or near Fotheringhay....
> <snip>
> > > I'm CCing to a pro researcher, who may have further suggestions (?) which I can post to you.
> > >
> > > But no promises, mia amica ; )
>
> Carol responds to both:
>
> Thanks, both of you. I guess we can cancel the pro researcher request. Sigh! So much for the advantages of having been born in England as opposed to Rouen (or Dublin, like George).
>
> Just out of curiosity, do we know the godparents of either Edward or Edmund?
>
> Carol, hoping that the missing papal dispensation will turn up

Edward's godparents were "Thomas, Lord Scales, and Elizabeth, Lady Say, sister of Lord Sudeley and wife, at that time, of Sir John Montgomery...." (Scofield, Edward IV, Vol 1, p. 1).
I'm pretty sure that Edmund's godparents are also recorded, but at the moment I can't think where the information is. I'll post again if I find it.
Marie



>

--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Edward's godparents were "Thomas, Lord Scales, and Elizabeth, Lady Say, sister of Lord Sudeley and wife, at that time, of Sir John Montgomery...." (Scofield, Edward IV, Vol 1, p. 1).
> I'm pretty sure that Edmund's godparents are also recorded, but at the moment I can't think where the information is. I'll post again if I find it.
> Marie


What connection or relationship were Lord Scales and Lady Say to the Duke and Duchess of York? Why do you suppose they were chosen as baby Edward's godparents? Do they figure in his later life?

Katy

Alas! So much was lost under the Tudors.... Polydore Vergil was accused by the
provosts of Oxford and Cambrigge of swiping wagonloads of manuscripts, letters,
and other documents. Other places made similar complaints, all for naught.

Many other "papers" vanished at the dissolution of the monasteries....

Judy Thomson



________________________________
From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 4:50:03 PM
Subject: Re: Richard's baptismal records


We have info on Edward and Edmund's baptisms from the Rouen records - Edmund, of
course, was baptised in the cathedral.
There are no baptism registers as such from this period (Henry VIII got that
started as a snooping exercise), so unless a baptism happened to have been noted
in a surviving cathedral register, or in a more general source (as a social
occasion) we won't know about it. Fotheringhay was a fairly isolated place and
Richard would surely have been baptised either in the castle chapel or in the
collegiate church. But York was in sort of dishonourable retirement at the time
and so it would have been a quiet family affair.

It would be nice to know who his godparents were, though, wouldn't it? If we
ever find the lost original dispensation for Richard and Anne's marriage that
would at least tell us whether either the

Earl or Countess of Warwick were amongst them since that would have created an
impediment to Richard and Anne's marriage.

Marie

--- In , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Carol,
>
> Just a guess, but these records may be extant at a church at or near
> Fotheringhay....
>
> Family "history" said my husband's grandmother was born in Aberdeen, Scotland;

> turns out, we had to visit little Stone Haven to find the real records.
>
> I'm CCing to a pro researcher, who may have further suggestions (?) which I can
>
> post to you.
>
> But no promises, mia amica ; )
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sat, March 12, 2011 11:02:36 AM
> Subject: Richard's baptismal records
>
>
> Does anyone know if the record of Richard's baptism is extant? I know that
> Edward's and Edmund's are, so why not Richard's? I'd be curious to know how
>soon
>
> after his birth it occurred and who his godparents were.
>
> Carol, who, unsurprisingly, can't find any info on the subject on the Internet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Marie wrote:
> >
> > Edward's godparents were "Thomas, Lord Scales, and Elizabeth, Lady Say, sister of Lord Sudeley and wife, at that time, of Sir John Montgomery...." (Scofield, Edward IV, Vol 1, p. 1).
>
Katy
> What connection or relationship were Lord Scales and Lady Say to the Duke and Duchess of York? Why do you suppose they were chosen as baby Edward's godparents? Do they figure in his later life?
>
Ann:

Lady Say's brother would, then, have been the Ralph, Lord Sudeley who was Eleanor Talbot's father-in-law?

L.P.H.,

Ann