Bosworth programme

Hello,

I don't know if anyone else remembers the National Portrait Gallery Richard III Exhibition of 1973, curated by Dr Pamela Tudor-Craig, but one of the exhibits was a cannon ball or balls from the Bosworth site.

What I don't recall at this date is where the cannon balls were found - they were relatively small and made of stone - not to mention the processional cross that was described as coming from the battlefield.

For me, this raises questions about the provenance of the items found, but I also wonder about the cannon balls and other small items that the recent excavation found. Do they in fact prove that the battle was fought elsewhere, or simply raise a reasonable doubt about the traditional location?

(With regard to the comments by Tony Robinson, I thought they were a bit inane, but not untypical from a television presenter. But Tudors = Golden Age? I think not!).

I too was irritated by their use of Philippa Gregory who is, after all, a historical novelist not a historian. And they resorted to the 'last charge of the Middle Ages' account whereby Richard spots Tudor and charges with his household cavalry. This is a marvellous image, but like most if not all of the contemporary accounts of the battle, I fear it is unreliable.

Jessica Saunders

In consultation with an archeologist friend, the landing places of the cannon
and shot tend to cross-corroborate much info. While we must await further
revelations, he was kind enough to consult one of the primaries. The disposal of
the silver boar does not prove Richard's whereabouts, but analysis of the entire
site is leaning toward other, more general conclusions.

Let us remain patient a tad longer.
: ) Judy



________________________________
From: casildis <jessica.rydill@...>
To:
Sent: Sat, March 19, 2011 8:15:15 AM
Subject: Bosworth programme


Hello,

I don't know if anyone else remembers the National Portrait Gallery Richard III
Exhibition of 1973, curated by Dr Pamela Tudor-Craig, but one of the exhibits
was a cannon ball or balls from the Bosworth site.

What I don't recall at this date is where the cannon balls were found - they
were relatively small and made of stone - not to mention the processional cross
that was described as coming from the battlefield.

For me, this raises questions about the provenance of the items found, but I
also wonder about the cannon balls and other small items that the recent
excavation found. Do they in fact prove that the battle was fought elsewhere, or
simply raise a reasonable doubt about the traditional location?

(With regard to the comments by Tony Robinson, I thought they were a bit inane,
but not untypical from a television presenter. But Tudors = Golden Age? I think
not!).

I too was irritated by their use of Philippa Gregory who is, after all, a
historical novelist not a historian. And they resorted to the 'last charge of
the Middle Ages' account whereby Richard spots Tudor and charges with his
household cavalry. This is a marvellous image, but like most if not all of the
contemporary accounts of the battle, I fear it is unreliable.

Jessica Saunders

Yes Jessica, I was quite surprised at the reliance on the story that Richard charged because he saw Tudor trying to run off. Especially as I believe Tony Robinson made a programme with Michael Jones when he first published his book on Bosworth. If I remember rightly the programme was mainly about Edward's supposed illegitimacy, but TR must have b een aware of the other part of Michael Jones book regarding the "impregnable pike wall" and Richard charging it. I'm not saying that Michael Jones is absolutely right but that everyone's theories have some merit and we need to to do a much more thorough investigation into all the theories rather than what traditionalist historians have been doing for years, i.e. just repeating the bits they think will make Tudor look good.

Regards

Mary

--- In , "casildis" <jessica.rydill@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I don't know if anyone else remembers the National Portrait Gallery Richard III Exhibition of 1973, curated by Dr Pamela Tudor-Craig, but one of the exhibits was a cannon ball or balls from the Bosworth site.
>
> What I don't recall at this date is where the cannon balls were found - they were relatively small and made of stone - not to mention the processional cross that was described as coming from the battlefield.
>
> For me, this raises questions about the provenance of the items found, but I also wonder about the cannon balls and other small items that the recent excavation found. Do they in fact prove that the battle was fought elsewhere, or simply raise a reasonable doubt about the traditional location?
>
> (With regard to the comments by Tony Robinson, I thought they were a bit inane, but not untypical from a television presenter. But Tudors = Golden Age? I think not!).
>
> I too was irritated by their use of Philippa Gregory who is, after all, a historical novelist not a historian. And they resorted to the 'last charge of the Middle Ages' account whereby Richard spots Tudor and charges with his household cavalry. This is a marvellous image, but like most if not all of the contemporary accounts of the battle, I fear it is unreliable.
>
> Jessica Saunders
>

If I recall correctly the cannon balls found around the Ambien Hill site later were dated to the 17th century skirmish that took place during the Civil War.
Paul


On 19 Mar 2011, at 13:15, casildis wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I don't know if anyone else remembers the National Portrait Gallery Richard III Exhibition of 1973, curated by Dr Pamela Tudor-Craig, but one of the exhibits was a cannon ball or balls from the Bosworth site.
>
> What I don't recall at this date is where the cannon balls were found - they were relatively small and made of stone - not to mention the processional cross that was described as coming from the battlefield.
>
> For me, this raises questions about the provenance of the items found, but I also wonder about the cannon balls and other small items that the recent excavation found. Do they in fact prove that the battle was fought elsewhere, or simply raise a reasonable doubt about the traditional location?
>
> (With regard to the comments by Tony Robinson, I thought they were a bit inane, but not untypical from a television presenter. But Tudors = Golden Age? I think not!).
>
> I too was irritated by their use of Philippa Gregory who is, after all, a historical novelist not a historian. And they resorted to the 'last charge of the Middle Ages' account whereby Richard spots Tudor and charges with his household cavalry. This is a marvellous image, but like most if not all of the contemporary accounts of the battle, I fear it is unreliable.
>
> Jessica Saunders
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

That was my understanding as well, Paul. Those Cavaliers and Roundheads! My
research associate is almost equally interested in this later period, and she
concurs.

Cheers!
Judy



________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Sun, March 20, 2011 7:27:08 AM
Subject: Re: Bosworth programme


If I recall correctly the cannon balls found around the Ambien Hill site later
were dated to the 17th century skirmish that took place during the Civil War.
Paul

On 19 Mar 2011, at 13:15, casildis wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I don't know if anyone else remembers the National Portrait Gallery Richard III
>Exhibition of 1973, curated by Dr Pamela Tudor-Craig, but one of the exhibits
>was a cannon ball or balls from the Bosworth site.
>
> What I don't recall at this date is where the cannon balls were found - they
>were relatively small and made of stone - not to mention the processional cross
>that was described as coming from the battlefield.
>
> For me, this raises questions about the provenance of the items found, but I
>also wonder about the cannon balls and other small items that the recent
>excavation found. Do they in fact prove that the battle was fought elsewhere, or
>simply raise a reasonable doubt about the traditional location?
>
> (With regard to the comments by Tony Robinson, I thought they were a bit inane,
>but not untypical from a television presenter. But Tudors = Golden Age? I think
>not!).
>
> I too was irritated by their use of Philippa Gregory who is, after all, a
>historical novelist not a historian. And they resorted to the 'last charge of
>the Middle Ages' account whereby Richard spots Tudor and charges with his
>household cavalry. This is a marvellous image, but like most if not all of the
>contemporary accounts of the battle, I fear it is unreliable.
>
> Jessica Saunders
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>