Shakespeare (?)

I have uploaded the 3 files on Richard and Oxford to the Files section. This section of the Forum has items in alphabetical order so you will have to scroll down to the "Rs" to find the 3 attachments. They are titled "Richard and Oxford -1; Richard and Oxford - 2; and Richard and Oxford - 3"

I think Ricardians will enjoy this comparison of their lives.....

L.M.L.,
Janet

Can I just remind people that this thread started as a result of someone mentioning Roland Emmerich's new movie.
Remember folks, Emmerich is the maker of such historically accurate movies as "Independence Day" and "Stargate" and "2012. It is only a movie!
Whoever wrote Shakespeare, more than likely an actor named William Shakespeare, they were all written by the same man, a genius.
Now can we get back to the historical Richard, please?
Paul

On 10 Oct 2011, at 20:44, J. T, wrote:

> I have uploaded the 3 files on Richard and Oxford to the Files section. This section of the Forum has items in alphabetical order so you will have to scroll down to the "Rs" to find the 3 attachments. They are titled "Richard and Oxford -1; Richard and Oxford - 2; and Richard and Oxford - 3"
>
> I think Ricardians will enjoy this comparison of their lives.....
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I'm sorry Paul, maybe you can explain to me why a discussion on who wrote a play about Richard III is not on topic.  I asked the question, not because of the movie exactly, but more because I found the connection between Richard and Oxford interesting. I'm not saying Oxford wrote the plays; just that he had a good reason to make Richard look bad (not just to please Elizabeth). And yes there is no doubt that whoever wrote the plays was brilliant!
Vickie


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare (?)


 
Can I just remind people that this thread started as a result of someone mentioning Roland Emmerich's new movie.
Remember folks, Emmerich is the maker of such historically accurate movies as "Independence Day" and "Stargate" and "2012. It is only a movie!
Whoever wrote Shakespeare, more than likely an actor named William Shakespeare, they were all written by the same man, a genius.
Now can we get back to the historical Richard, please?
Paul

On 10 Oct 2011, at 20:44, J. T, wrote:

> I have uploaded the 3 files on Richard and Oxford to the Files section. This section of the Forum has items in alphabetical order so you will have to scroll down to the "Rs" to find the 3 attachments. They are titled "Richard and Oxford -1; Richard and Oxford - 2; and Richard and Oxford - 3"
>
> I think Ricardians will enjoy this comparison of their lives.....
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

And I mentioned Emmerich's movie simply to state that if an alternative premise to the accepted one concerning Shakespeare can be brought to the screen, it might be time to bring a different perspective from the traditional one concerning Richard III to the screen. There is a persistent view that a more balanced view of Richard wouldn't sell. I don't think that's the case. My statement was not OT.


________________________________
From: Vickie Cook <lolettecook@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:14:44 PM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare (?)


 
I'm sorry Paul, maybe you can explain to me why a discussion on who wrote a play about Richard III is not on topic.  I asked the question, not because of the movie exactly, but more because I found the connection between Richard and Oxford interesting. I'm not saying Oxford wrote the plays; just that he had a good reason to make Richard look bad (not just to please Elizabeth). And yes there is no doubt that whoever wrote the plays was brilliant!
Vickie

________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Shakespeare (?)

 
Can I just remind people that this thread started as a result of someone mentioning Roland Emmerich's new movie.
Remember folks, Emmerich is the maker of such historically accurate movies as "Independence Day" and "Stargate" and "2012. It is only a movie!
Whoever wrote Shakespeare, more than likely an actor named William Shakespeare, they were all written by the same man, a genius.
Now can we get back to the historical Richard, please?
Paul

On 10 Oct 2011, at 20:44, J. T, wrote:

> I have uploaded the 3 files on Richard and Oxford to the Files section. This section of the Forum has items in alphabetical order so you will have to scroll down to the "Rs" to find the 3 attachments. They are titled "Richard and Oxford -1; Richard and Oxford - 2; and Richard and Oxford - 3"
>
> I think Ricardians will enjoy this comparison of their lives.....
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Can I just remind people that this thread started as a result of someone mentioning Roland Emmerich's new movie.
> Remember folks, Emmerich is the maker of such historically accurate movies as "Independence Day" and "Stargate" and "2012. It is only a movie!
> Whoever wrote Shakespeare, more than likely an actor named William Shakespeare, they were all written by the same man, a genius.
> Now can we get back to the historical Richard, please?
> Paul



For what it's worth, in my experience with online groups and forums, nothing kills the spirit of communication and sharing (and, ultimately, the group itself) as much as someone charging in and yelling "Off Topic!"

We've strayed much further off-topic than this in the past, and the group survived, maybe because no one objected to the digression.

Kay

I agree, if the topic goes off at a tangent, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. You can learn a lot from topics going off at a tangent, as much as you can learn from topics that are entirely on topic. Some off-topic discussions do contain relevant points of discussion. That's just the nature of forums and discussion groups.

Sorry to have to add this, but I just thought what I said above might be of note.

Dan

--- In , "oregon_katy" <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Can I just remind people that this thread started as a result of someone mentioning Roland Emmerich's new movie.
> > Remember folks, Emmerich is the maker of such historically accurate movies as "Independence Day" and "Stargate" and "2012. It is only a movie!
> > Whoever wrote Shakespeare, more than likely an actor named William Shakespeare, they were all written by the same man, a genius.
> > Now can we get back to the historical Richard, please?
> > Paul
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, in my experience with online groups and forums, nothing kills the spirit of communication and sharing (and, ultimately, the group itself) as much as someone charging in and yelling "Off Topic!"
>
> We've strayed much further off-topic than this in the past, and the group survived, maybe because no one objected to the digression.
>
> Kay
>

Also, sorry, double post. My thoughts on Shakespeare are that he demonises monarchs such as Macbeth (who was more popular than Duncan's son, when he reigned) and Richard III to create entertainment, and he twists history to make it into a more interesting play, cutting people out, adding people in, messing around with the timeline, and making people different to how they were historically. Also, he wrote from a biased point of view, and used biased history, which makes the plays themselves biased, but still entertaining.

>
> --- In , "oregon_katy" <oregon_katy@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can I just remind people that this thread started as a result of someone mentioning Roland Emmerich's new movie.
> > > Remember folks, Emmerich is the maker of such historically accurate movies as "Independence Day" and "Stargate" and "2012. It is only a movie!
> > > Whoever wrote Shakespeare, more than likely an actor named William Shakespeare, they were all written by the same man, a genius.
> > > Now can we get back to the historical Richard, please?
> > > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> > For what it's worth, in my experience with online groups and forums, nothing kills the spirit of communication and sharing (and, ultimately, the group itself) as much as someone charging in and yelling "Off Topic!"
> >
> > We've strayed much further off-topic than this in the past, and the group survived, maybe because no one objected to the digression.
> >
> > Kay
> >
>

William Barber writes that it "might be time to bring a different perspective from the traditional one concerning Richard III to the screen. There is a persistent view that a more balanced view of Richard wouldn't sell. I don't think that's the case."

I know that's not the case. I notice that Mr. Barber writes from a Canadian email domain, so let me just state that if one draws a horizontal line across England somewhere just south of the Wash, you find that the proportion of Richard III backers rises significantly to the North of that line. A lot of people in the North of England, centred around the city of York, are quite certain that Richard III was a decent man with a clearly demonstrated track record in raising the status of Northerners. (He seems to have placed a special emphasis on helping out migrant market traders - "Dusty feet" is the term his Act uses.) It's barely two weeks since I exchanged notes with a Northerner who is still firmly convinced that passive acceptance of Shakespeare's ogre in the South is one small but persistent factor in the continuing alienation felt in the North of England.

I certainly would not have spent four years writing a play in Shakespeare's English that takes serious issue with WS's dismal rendition, if I thought this "persistent view" could not be chopped to pieces if the right pressure were brought to bear.

Robert Fripp, in Toronto
Author: "Dark Sovereign"
"The tragedy of King Richard the Third
that William Shakespeare should have written"