Texting in Richard's Day

Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.

Hi there - I think I can help on both counts. There's an article by John Armstrong in "Mediaeval History", Vol 1, No 2, 1991, entitled "Some Examples of the Distribution and Speed of News in England at the Time of the Wars of the Roses", available from the Barton Library (non-fiction papers), of which Marie Barnfield is presently custodian.

And on the second count, funnily enough Geoff Wheeler asked me to check out the use of carrier pigeons for him a couple of months ago, so I did a trawl through various sources and found no indication of pigeons being used in Europe at all during the Middle Ages. They were, of course, a staple item of diet, hence all the dovecotes. I did identify extensive use of carrier pigeons in the Middle East from quite an early date, but no indication that it caught on in Europe.
Regards, Annette


----- Original Message -----
From: fairrichard3
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:10 PM
Subject: Texting in Richard's Day



Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.

........... hence the cartoon in that Yorkshire Branch booklet a few years ago, about the troops eating a carrier pigeon.

----- Original Message -----
From: Annette Carson
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Texting in Richard's Day



Hi there - I think I can help on both counts. There's an article by John Armstrong in "Mediaeval History", Vol 1, No 2, 1991, entitled "Some Examples of the Distribution and Speed of News in England at the Time of the Wars of the Roses", available from the Barton Library (non-fiction papers), of which Marie Barnfield is presently custodian.

And on the second count, funnily enough Geoff Wheeler asked me to check out the use of carrier pigeons for him a couple of months ago, so I did a trawl through various sources and found no indication of pigeons being used in Europe at all during the Middle Ages. They were, of course, a staple item of diet, hence all the dovecotes. I did identify extensive use of carrier pigeons in the Middle East from quite an early date, but no indication that it caught on in Europe.
Regards, Annette

----- Original Message -----
From: fairrichard3
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:10 PM
Subject: Texting in Richard's Day

Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.

Hi Annette,

Thank you for the information. Very helpful.
Curious, though, that the use of carrier pigeons was not an adopted practice given the contacts Europe had with the Middle East through trade and the crusades, and not to mention the training of raptors for hunting. Of course, those are different functions. Maybe pigeons were too vulnerable to interception and/or distruction.

for broad distribution of any message, the pulpit was used as well as heralds/town criers to make announcements/proclaimations.
 
hue and cry was also a method to which an outlaw was tracked. it was mandatory that that if one heard a "cry" that that cry be picked up and repeated until the outlaw was tracked/caught.
 
use of waterways and sea travel as well as horse back was also used to "move" information rapidly.
 
roslyn


--- On Wed, 11/2/11, fairrichard3 <fairerichard3@...> wrote:


From: fairrichard3 <fairerichard3@...>
Subject: Texting in Richard's Day
To:
Received: Wednesday, November 2, 2011, 3:10 PM



 



Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.

As in "Blackadder Goes Forth"?
Sheffe




>________________________________
>From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 3:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Texting in Richard's Day
>
>
> 
>........... hence the cartoon in that Yorkshire Branch booklet a few years ago, about the troops eating a carrier pigeon.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Annette Carson
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:26 PM
>Subject: Re: Texting in Richard's Day
>
>Hi there - I think I can help on both counts. There's an article by John Armstrong in "Mediaeval History", Vol 1, No 2, 1991, entitled "Some Examples of the Distribution and Speed of News in England at the Time of the Wars of the Roses", available from the Barton Library (non-fiction papers), of which Marie Barnfield is presently custodian.
>
>And on the second count, funnily enough Geoff Wheeler asked me to check out the use of carrier pigeons for him a couple of months ago, so I did a trawl through various sources and found no indication of pigeons being used in Europe at all during the Middle Ages. They were, of course, a staple item of diet, hence all the dovecotes. I did identify extensive use of carrier pigeons in the Middle East from quite an early date, but no indication that it caught on in Europe.
>Regards, Annette
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: fairrichard3
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:10 PM
>Subject: Texting in Richard's Day
>
>Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
>Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
>Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.
>
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>
>

Ah, Sheffe - goode olde Blackadder!

Incidentally, when this topic first came up, I wondered if the original query involved research for non-fiction or fiction. Clearly, if someone is working on a scholarly piece, there's no wiggle room.

But, if a person were researching with a more speculative result in mind (a novel, maybe?), the old chestnut "absence of evidence does not necessarily mean evidence of absence" would apply. 

In fact, a couple of enterprising young Europeans, familiar with unfamiliar Middle Eastern practice and custom, who then use carrier pigeons for [hmmmm...spying? love letters?], would be rather fun - and definitely not yet done-to-death. The Gothic equivalent of Steam-Punk, maybe? One can't prove that carrier pigeons were never, ever used, only that they were not used frequently enough to be noticed; any persons actually communicating via CP in Europe would be, um, flying well beneath the non-Radar...so to speak. And with such overwhelming rarity, the odd "dropped call," due to Raptor Interference (yielding, say, an indecipherable note, with no context for either What? or Why?) would scarcely rate mention, even among idle Pastons or gossip hungry Milanese ambassadors.

Judy 
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Sheffe <shethra77@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Texting in Richard's Day


 
As in "Blackadder Goes Forth"?
Sheffe

>________________________________
>From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 3:40 PM
>Subject: Re: Texting in Richard's Day
>
>
> 
>........... hence the cartoon in that Yorkshire Branch booklet a few years ago, about the troops eating a carrier pigeon.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Annette Carson
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:26 PM
>Subject: Re: Texting in Richard's Day
>
>Hi there - I think I can help on both counts. There's an article by John Armstrong in "Mediaeval History", Vol 1, No 2, 1991, entitled "Some Examples of the Distribution and Speed of News in England at the Time of the Wars of the Roses", available from the Barton Library (non-fiction papers), of which Marie Barnfield is presently custodian.
>
>And on the second count, funnily enough Geoff Wheeler asked me to check out the use of carrier pigeons for him a couple of months ago, so I did a trawl through various sources and found no indication of pigeons being used in Europe at all during the Middle Ages. They were, of course, a staple item of diet, hence all the dovecotes. I did identify extensive use of carrier pigeons in the Middle East from quite an early date, but no indication that it caught on in Europe.
>Regards, Annette
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: fairrichard3
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:10 PM
>Subject: Texting in Richard's Day
>
>Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
>Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
>Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

rumour travels miles while truth is putting on his shoes.......
Paul

On 3 Nov 2011, at 20:09, fayre rose wrote:

> for broad distribution of any message, the pulpit was used as well as heralds/town criers to make announcements/proclaimations.
>
> hue and cry was also a method to which an outlaw was tracked. it was mandatory that that if one heard a "cry" that that cry be picked up and repeated until the outlaw was tracked/caught.
>
> use of waterways and sea travel as well as horse back was also used to "move" information rapidly.
>
> roslyn
>
>
> --- On Wed, 11/2/11, fairrichard3 <fairerichard3@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: fairrichard3 <fairerichard3@...>
> Subject: Texting in Richard's Day
> To:
> Received: Wednesday, November 2, 2011, 3:10 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings All. Enjoying the postings.
> Would anyone have any sourced information regarding the speed and methods of communication and news dissemination during Richard's era. More specifically, do you have any specific articles (especially journal sources) on the speed at which news/messages could be disseminated in the late fifteenth century? In particular, is there any evidence they used carrier pigeons as well as or instead of riders?
> Any help you may be able to give would be most appreciated. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Thank you all for your wonderful replies. Very helpful, much appreciated.
Mr. Fripp, do you have the sources regarding your recent post:
>... Humphrey Percival, private secretary to the Duke
of Buckingham, posted from Brecon in South Wales to convey information
to Richard at Middleham, in North Yorkshire, "benighted but one night".
Modern couriers can't do much better than that.<
Thank you.

I'd also be interested to know this source ... to the best of my recollection Percival is introduced to considerable effect by Thomas More to give verisimilitude to his theme of Richard and Buckingham hatching early plots together (nicely debunked by Walpole!), although More doesn't claim such miraculous speed from Brecon to Middleham. Indeed, More is more accurate in locating Richard at York at this time, not Middleham, and at Nottingham a few days later.

Neither does More locate Buckingham specifically at Brecon. True, he may have been there, but I'm sure More doesn't say so. I believe he would have moved somewhere closer to the centre of things - as would many interested parties - as soon as he learned that Edward IV was at death's door.

I believe Percival features also in Hall's Union, although it may be simply be an appearance in those chunks lifted wholesale from More. From memory I don't recall any such passage as Robert quotes, so it would be nice to know where it comes from.
Regards, Annette


----- Original Message -----
From: fairrichard3
To:
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 8:45 PM
Subject: Texting in Richard's Day



Thank you all for your wonderful replies. Very helpful, much appreciated.
Mr. Fripp, do you have the sources regarding your recent post:
>... Humphrey Percival, private secretary to the Duke
of Buckingham, posted from Brecon in South Wales to convey information
to Richard at Middleham, in North Yorkshire, "benighted but one night".
Modern couriers can't do much better than that.<
Thank you.