The word "sympathy" in Richard's English

Joan asks if she can use the word "sympathy" in the Ricardian period. "Sympathy" is not used until 1579 in English, when it is used with its original Latin spelling, after Pliny. You might try "fellow-feeling" or "amity naturall".

I hope one of those work for you,

Robert

Just so, Robert. Joan's situation is slightly different, insofar as she's going to/fro between 21st C. and 15th C., with a twist. I suggested the use of the Latin, which goes back much farther than Pliny via the Greek: Symbos and Pathos (think symbiotic and pathetic...). These people were better informed than we sometimes think...

Cheers,
Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: rspfripp <r_fripp@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:14 PM
Subject: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English


 
Joan asks if she can use the word "sympathy" in the Ricardian period. "Sympathy" is not used until 1579 in English, when it is used with its original Latin spelling, after Pliny. You might try "fellow-feeling" or "amity naturall".

I hope one of those work for you,

Robert

i so agree, judy. the word sympathy was first "recorded" in the mid 1500's. this does not mean it could not have been in use prior to that time. printing was still in it's infancy. written records, especially of the "common" person are few and far between. the use of sympathy would have seldom have been used in the more easily found offical records.
 
as i stated in my prior post, the word was used in france prior to english recordings of it. but it was used in medical/alchemical or occult writings.
 
richard would have been no stranger to either latin or french, as these were the chosen languages of the elite/nobility.
 
nonetheless, joan found a interesting way to cope with a word that may or may not have been used by richard.
 
roslyn

--- On Wed, 2/22/12, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:


From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
Subject: Re: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English
To: "" <>
Received: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:09 AM



 



Just so, Robert. Joan's situation is slightly different, insofar as she's going to/fro between 21st C. and 15th C., with a twist. I suggested the use of the Latin, which goes back much farther than Pliny via the Greek: Symbos and Pathos (think symbiotic and pathetic...). These people were better informed than we sometimes think...

Cheers,
Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: rspfripp <r_fripp@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:14 PM
Subject: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English


 
Joan asks if she can use the word "sympathy" in the Ricardian period. "Sympathy" is not used until 1579 in English, when it is used with its original Latin spelling, after Pliny. You might try "fellow-feeling" or "amity naturall".

I hope one of those work for you,

Robert

Yes, Roslyn, and brava to Joan!

Her situation isn't as clear cut as the average historical novel, and some modern readers appreciate the efforts, while others get annoyed (as in: Oh, goodness gracious - just say "sympathy"!) I have been driven to the sword's edge of madness by the arcane; we've got to cut some slack (we're neither of us writing for the OED!)

An example: how many medieval books have you read where the man dons his "jerkin"? But the actual word came from the Lowlands, and wasn't in print in England 'til the early 16th C.

Was it Chaucer or Caxton's edition of Chaucer where he complains about Eggs. In some places, it was "egges" or "eggis" but it was "eyeren" or some such, elsewhere. A choice was made, and now we've got Eggs.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: fayre rose <fayreroze@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English


 
i so agree, judy. the word sympathy was first "recorded" in the mid 1500's. this does not mean it could not have been in use prior to that time. printing was still in it's infancy. written records, especially of the "common" person are few and far between. the use of sympathy would have seldom have been used in the more easily found offical records.
 
as i stated in my prior post, the word was used in france prior to english recordings of it. but it was used in medical/alchemical or occult writings.
 
richard would have been no stranger to either latin or french, as these were the chosen languages of the elite/nobility.
 
nonetheless, joan found a interesting way to cope with a word that may or may not have been used by richard.
 
roslyn

--- On Wed, 2/22/12, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
Subject: Re: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English
To: "" <>
Received: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 8:09 AM

 

Just so, Robert. Joan's situation is slightly different, insofar as she's going to/fro between 21st C. and 15th C., with a twist. I suggested the use of the Latin, which goes back much farther than Pliny via the Greek: Symbos and Pathos (think symbiotic and pathetic...). These people were better informed than we sometimes think...

Cheers,
Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: rspfripp <r_fripp@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 10:14 PM
Subject: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English

 
Joan asks if she can use the word "sympathy" in the Ricardian period. "Sympathy" is not used until 1579 in English, when it is used with its original Latin spelling, after Pliny. You might try "fellow-feeling" or "amity naturall".

I hope one of those work for you,

Robert

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, Roslyn, and brava to Joan!
>
> Her situation isn't as clear cut as the average historical novel, and some modern readers appreciate the efforts, while others get annoyed (as in: Oh, goodness gracious - just say "sympathy"!) I have been driven to the sword's edge of madness by the arcane; we've got to cut some slack (we're neither of us writing for the OED!)
>
> An example: how many medieval books have you read where the man dons his "jerkin"? But the actual word came from the Lowlands, and wasn't in print in England 'til the early 16th C.



I can sympathize (since I live in the 21st century) -- I once had a character singing Danny Boy in 1882. Fortunately I discovered that those words were not put to the ancient melody till 1913, so I changed it to have him whistling the tune, Londonderry Aire.

Katy

By amusing coincidence, I just wrote a set of lyrics for the Londonderry Aire for exactly this sort of reason!
 : )

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: oregon_katy <oregon_katy@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: The word "sympathy" in Richard's English


 


--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, Roslyn, and brava to Joan!
>
> Her situation isn't as clear cut as the average historical novel, and some modern readers appreciate the efforts, while others get annoyed (as in: Oh, goodness gracious - just say "sympathy"!) I have been driven to the sword's edge of madness by the arcane; we've got to cut some slack (we're neither of us writing for the OED!)
>
> An example: how many medieval books have you read where the man dons his "jerkin"? But the actual word came from the Lowlands, and wasn't in print in England 'til the early 16th C.

I can sympathize (since I live in the 21st century) -- I once had a character singing Danny Boy in 1882. Fortunately I discovered that those words were not put to the ancient melody till 1913, so I changed it to have him whistling the tune, Londonderry Aire.

Katy