A Speculative Fiction Piece: The Forgotten King Who Began the Modern

This is a piece of what-if fiction representing purest fantasy wish
fulfillment on my part. It's in RTF format and should be readable in
any word processor, although it may be necessary to fiddle with the
settings a bit to get it to open. Thank you for the space to post, and
I hope this is entertaining (at least, a little).

Best,
McJohn

I am curious but cannot find it, having looked under Files and Photos. Attachments are automatically blocked.

--- In , McJohn <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> This is a piece of what-if fiction representing purest fantasy wish
> fulfillment on my part. It's in RTF format and should be readable in
> any word processor, although it may be necessary to fiddle with the
> settings a bit to get it to open. Thank you for the space to post, and
> I hope this is entertaining (at least, a little).
>
> Best,
> McJohn
>
>
>
>

I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of us only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section please ?

Richard G

--- In , McJohn <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> This is a piece of what-if fiction representing purest fantasy wish
> fulfillment on my part. It's in RTF format and should be readable in
> any word processor, although it may be necessary to fiddle with the
> settings a bit to get it to open. Thank you for the space to post, and
> I hope this is entertaining (at least, a little).
>
> Best,
> McJohn
>
>
>
>

Aw, shoot. My apologies, I thought that would work. In the files section, please look for:

Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf

--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> I am curious but cannot find it, having looked under Files and Photos. Attachments are automatically blocked.

Beg pardon, yes, sir. It's in Files under this name:

Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf

--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of us only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section please ?
>
> Richard G

Makes an interesting read - but please note that Anthony Woodville, 2nd Earl Rivers, was the brother of Queen Elizabeth, not her son.

Richard G

--- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Beg pardon, yes, sir. It's in Files under this name:
>
> Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of us only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section please ?
> >
> > Richard G
>

Yes, sir, I did manage to mess that up. It seems rude to execute the guy and then get his relationship to the Queen wrong. I'll fix that proto, thank you!

--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> Makes an interesting read - but please note that Anthony Woodville, 2nd Earl Rivers, was the brother of Queen Elizabeth, not her son.
>
> Richard G

Found your essay and am in the process of reading it now. In the second paragraph you ask, "what if virulent European disease had run unchecked throughout the population of the New World?" Well, it did. Just ask the descendents of the Mayans and Aztecs - if you can actually find any. Pissaro, Cortez and the soldiers in their force wiped out millions of Mayans and Aztecs via European diseases - many many more than were ever killed by their weapons. Read the excellent book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Amazing and unbelievable - but true!

I know what you meant but perhaps you need to reword that question.

L.M.L.,
Janet Trimbath

--- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Beg pardon, yes, sir. It's in Files under this name:
>
> Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of us only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section please ?
> >
> > Richard G
>

Actually about the plagues and the indians and the colonizing of America
check out this site

http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=trending_now

To those who saw two posts from me that are not here. I deleted them
because I thought the first few paragraphs were leading into the
speculation to set it up, rather than starting with it at the outset.
Perhaps an introductory paragraph is warranted so that some readers,
like me, who keep fighting the narrative will be able to enjoy the
irony.

Joan
---
This Time--General Fiction Finalist of 2010 Next Generation Indie Book
Awards
Loyalty Binds Me--recommended by Midwest Book reviews
website <http://> -- blog <http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/> --trailer
<http://youtu.be/O49HPSN08NI>
ebooks at Smashwords
<http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/JoanSzechtman>

--- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Found your essay and am in the process of reading it now. In the
second paragraph you ask, "what if virulent European disease had run
unchecked throughout the population of the New World?" Well, it did.
Just ask the descendents of the Mayans and Aztecs - if you can actually
find any. Pissaro, Cortez and the soldiers in their force wiped out
millions of Mayans and Aztecs via European diseases - many many more
than were ever killed by their weapons. Read the excellent book "Guns,
Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Amazing and unbelievable - but true!
>
> I know what you meant but perhaps you need to reword that question.
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet Trimbath
>
> --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" mcjohn@
wrote:
> >
> > Beg pardon, yes, sir. It's in Files under this name:
> >
> > Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf
> >
> > --- In , "Richard"
<RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of us
only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section
please ?
> > >
> > > Richard G
> >
>

The "Shore" bit isn't speculation--thus breaking your invention. Maybe
she should have been exiled to a convent? [:D]

Joan
---
This Time--General Fiction Finalist of 2010 Next Generation Indie Book
Awards
Loyalty Binds Me--recommended by Midwest Book reviews
website <http://> -- blog <http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/> --trailer
<http://youtu.be/O49HPSN08NI>
ebooks at Smashwords
<http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/JoanSzechtman>

--- In , "joanszechtman"
<u2nohoo@...> wrote:
>
> To those who saw two posts from me that are not here. I deleted them
> because I thought the first few paragraphs were leading into the
> speculation to set it up, rather than starting with it at the outset.
> Perhaps an introductory paragraph is warranted so that some readers,
> like me, who keep fighting the narrative will be able to enjoy the
> irony.
>
> Joan
> ---
> This Time--General Fiction Finalist of 2010 Next Generation Indie Book
> Awards
> Loyalty Binds Me--recommended by Midwest Book reviews
> website <http://> -- blog <http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/> --trailer
> <http://youtu.be/O49HPSN08NI>
> ebooks at Smashwords
> <http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/JoanSzechtman>
>
> --- In , "J. T," treenbagh@
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Found your essay and am in the process of reading it now. In the
> second paragraph you ask, "what if virulent European disease had run
> unchecked throughout the population of the New World?" Well, it did.
> Just ask the descendents of the Mayans and Aztecs - if you can
actually
> find any. Pissaro, Cortez and the soldiers in their force wiped out
> millions of Mayans and Aztecs via European diseases - many many more
> than were ever killed by their weapons. Read the excellent book "Guns,
> Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Amazing and unbelievable - but
true!
> >
> > I know what you meant but perhaps you need to reword that question.
> >
> > L.M.L.,
> > Janet Trimbath
> >
> > --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net"
mcjohn@
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Beg pardon, yes, sir. It's in Files under this name:
> > >
> > > Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf
> > >
> > > --- In , "Richard"
> <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of
us
> only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section
> please ?
> > > >
> > > > Richard G
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

Actually if you know anything about the tale of Squanto, he had been
captured and made a slave by the Spanish or Portuguese and by the time he
returned to his village it was wiped out by a plague. Before the colonizing
of the Americas got under way there was a plague of unknown origin that
decimated the Native Americans living there. The white man didn't so much
wipe out the Indians as kill a huge portion of the survivors. For reference
check out
http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=trending_now

Thanks for your note. I hope the point will become apparent as you continue reading.

--- In , "J. T," <treenbagh@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Found your essay and am in the process of reading it now. In the second paragraph you ask, "what if virulent European disease had run unchecked throughout the population of the New World?" Well, it did. Just ask the descendents of the Mayans and Aztecs - if you can actually find any. Pissaro, Cortez and the soldiers in their force wiped out millions of Mayans and Aztecs via European diseases - many many more than were ever killed by their weapons. Read the excellent book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Amazing and unbelievable - but true!
>
> I know what you meant but perhaps you need to reword that question.
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet Trimbath
>
> --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@> wrote:
> >
> > Beg pardon, yes, sir. It's in Files under this name:
> >
> > Ricardvs_III_Ang_Rex.rtf
> >
> > --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I assume you sent the file as an e-mail attachment ? As many of us only read this forum on-line, could you upload it to the Files section please ?
> > >
> > > Richard G
> >
>

It's interesting that you mention this article. That was one of the pieces that got me wondering about what-ifs connected with Richard III in the first place. Cracked has a reputation for age-regressive humor based on body shame, and while that's a big part of their approach, I've been astonished by the knowledge and insight of their writers.

I didn't mention this in detail, although I believe the Cracked article does, but the Iroquois constitution influenced the U.S. Constitution. Part of the undeniably rosy picture in "The Forgotten King" is my dreamy speculation about what the U.S. could have been without the smallpox-assisted genocide of the Native populations and without slavery. It was unlikely ever to happen that separated populations could meet without instantly being tempted to exterminate one another, but that's why this is qualifies as fantasy wish fulfillment.

--- In , Jeffrey Meehan <jeff.uzumaki@...> wrote:
>
> Actually about the plagues and the indians and the colonizing of America
> check out this site
>
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=trending_now
>
>
>
>

Maybe Tom Lynom became one of the ambassadors to the French court and took her with him? She'd have found quite a few sympathetic ears, but probably not a lot of people who would, you know, equip and lead an invasion just because she said Richard was mean to her.

--- In , "joanszechtman" <u2nohoo@...> wrote:
>
> The "Shore" bit isn't speculation--thus breaking your invention. Maybe
> she should have been exiled to a convent? [:D]
>
> Joan
> ---
> This Time--General Fiction Finalist of 2010 Next Generation Indie Book
> Awards
> Loyalty Binds Me--recommended by Midwest Book reviews
> website <http://> -- blog <http://rtoaaa.blogspot.com/> --trailer
> <http://youtu.be/O49HPSN08NI>
> ebooks at Smashwords
> <http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/JoanSzechtman>

I didn't get into huge amounts of detail about the relationship between the Nations and the English, other than to say it was cordial and mutually beneficial. I did have to come up with a hail-mary pass that would explain why the Europeans didn't carve up the continents between them, which was easiest if the Europeans arrived in a place that was already fully populated, beyond any possibility of conquest. (Not that that stopped the Crusaders from trying, but I was trying to appeal to a live-and-let-live attitude I saw strongly in the letter Richard III wrote about Elizabeth Shore.) The only way to keep the Native population in the Americas was to contain the threat of smallpox, which is why the fantasy England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales of "The Forgotten King" discovered smallpox vaccination about 300 years before it actually happened.

--- In , Jeffrey Meehan <jeff.uzumaki@...> wrote:
>
> Actually if you know anything about the tale of Squanto, he had been
> captured and made a slave by the Spanish or Portuguese and by the time he
> returned to his village it was wiped out by a plague. Before the colonizing
> of the Americas got under way there was a plague of unknown origin that
> decimated the Native Americans living there. The white man didn't so much
> wipe out the Indians as kill a huge portion of the survivors. For reference
> check out
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=trending_now
>
>
>
>

I really enjoyed this. I would recommend wider margins to avoid horizontal scrolling.

Actually, only one thing sounded unrealistic - the Tydder being either killed in battle or executed immediately afterwards. From what we know of his life, had Bosworth started to go against him, the weasel would have raced back to France.

--- In , McJohn <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> This is a piece of what-if fiction representing purest fantasy wish
> fulfillment on my part. It's in RTF format and should be readable in
> any word processor, although it may be necessary to fiddle with the
> settings a bit to get it to open. Thank you for the space to post, and
> I hope this is entertaining (at least, a little).
>
> Best,
> McJohn
>
>
>
>

Jenner discovered small pox vaccine by accident; he'd noted cow pox seemed to prevent both diseases. Some cow herd might have stumbled on this earlier.... 

Read "The Dragon Waiting," I believe it was nominated for a Hugo. Read just for fun. Oh, those Byzantines!
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: A Speculative Fiction Piece: The Forgotten King Who Began the Modern World


 
I didn't get into huge amounts of detail about the relationship between the Nations and the English, other than to say it was cordial and mutually beneficial. I did have to come up with a hail-mary pass that would explain why the Europeans didn't carve up the continents between them, which was easiest if the Europeans arrived in a place that was already fully populated, beyond any possibility of conquest. (Not that that stopped the Crusaders from trying, but I was trying to appeal to a live-and-let-live attitude I saw strongly in the letter Richard III wrote about Elizabeth Shore.) The only way to keep the Native population in the Americas was to contain the threat of smallpox, which is why the fantasy England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales of "The Forgotten King" discovered smallpox vaccination about 300 years before it actually happened.

--- In , Jeffrey Meehan <jeff.uzumaki@...> wrote:
>
> Actually if you know anything about the tale of Squanto, he had been
> captured and made a slave by the Spanish or Portuguese and by the time he
> returned to his village it was wiped out by a plague. Before the colonizing
> of the Americas got under way there was a plague of unknown origin that
> decimated the Native Americans living there. The white man didn't so much
> wipe out the Indians as kill a huge portion of the survivors. For reference
> check out
> http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html?wa_user1=2&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=trending_now
>
>
>
>

What do people have against weasels?
 
I heard that weasels are actually quite brave fighters, full frontal attacks and all that. Not an Henry at all!
 
Helen


________________________________
From: stephenmlark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 3 June 2012 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: A Speculative Fiction Piece: The Forgotten King Who Began the Modern World



 

I really enjoyed this. I would recommend wider margins to avoid horizontal scrolling.

Actually, only one thing sounded unrealistic - the Tydder being either killed in battle or executed immediately afterwards. From what we know of his life, had Bosworth started to go against him, the weasel would have raced back to France.

--- In , McJohn <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> This is a piece of what-if fiction representing purest fantasy wish
> fulfillment on my part. It's in RTF format and should be readable in
> any word processor, although it may be necessary to fiddle with the
> settings a bit to get it to open. Thank you for the space to post, and
> I hope this is entertaining (at least, a little).
>
> Best,
> McJohn
>
>
>
>