To kiss a Queen

One of the strangest things I've read is about how Katherine of Valois, once wife of Henry V, was treated after death:

`The wooden funeral effigy which was carried at her funeral still survives at Westminster Abbey and is on display in the Undercroft Museum. Her tomb originally boasted an alabaster memorial, which was deliberately destroyed during extensions to the abbey in the reign of her grandson, Henry VII. It has been suggested that Henry ordered her memorial to be removed to distance himself from his illegitimate ancestry. At this time, her coffin lid was accidentally raised, revealing her corpse, which for generations became a tourist attraction. In 1669 the diarist Samuel Pepys kissed the long-deceased queen on his birthday:'

"On Shrove Tuesday 1669, I to the Abbey went, and by favour did see the body of Queen Catherine of Valois, and had the upper part of the body in my hands, and I did kiss her mouth, reflecting upon it I did kiss a Queen: and this my birthday and I thirty-six years old and I did kiss a Queen."

— Samuel Pepys

Catherine's remains were not properly re-interred until the reign of Queen Victoria.

Must agree this story ranks up there. And Pepys was 36? Sounds more like a schoolboy dare to me: 

"Bet you a pint, Sammy--" 
"You're on. Who else should I kiss? For a ha'pipe of wine?"

Or is there some chance you (or your parents) are old enough to recall the Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday night TV? The weird Spanish puppeteer with the head in the wooden box:
 
(" 'S right?" 
(" 'S right"),

used to creep me out a lot as a kid. Probably still would, today. 

There was some 19th C. pope who opened several famous tombs to see if the owners were still home.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: HI <hi.dung@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 10:07 AM
Subject: To kiss a Queen


 
One of the strangest things I've read is about how Katherine of Valois, once wife of Henry V, was treated after death:

`The wooden funeral effigy which was carried at her funeral still survives at Westminster Abbey and is on display in the Undercroft Museum. Her tomb originally boasted an alabaster memorial, which was deliberately destroyed during extensions to the abbey in the reign of her grandson, Henry VII. It has been suggested that Henry ordered her memorial to be removed to distance himself from his illegitimate ancestry. At this time, her coffin lid was accidentally raised, revealing her corpse, which for generations became a tourist attraction. In 1669 the diarist Samuel Pepys kissed the long-deceased queen on his birthday:'

"On Shrove Tuesday 1669, I to the Abbey went, and by favour did see the body of Queen Catherine of Valois, and had the upper part of the body in my hands, and I did kiss her mouth, reflecting upon it I did kiss a Queen: and this my birthday and I thirty-six years old and I did kiss a Queen."

 Samuel Pepys

Catherine's remains were not properly re-interred until the reign of Queen Victoria.

Sooner Pepys than me, given possible contagion of disease! Maybe Pepys was under the influence of alcohol at the time. I recall from a different source that Catherine's body was on display. It had taken on a leathery condition to the touch.

'There was some 19th C. pope who opened several famous tombs to see if the owners were still home.'

Opening royal tombs was something of a pastime during the 18th and 19th century: I know that Edward I and Edward IV were both exposed; both were very tall!

Queen Anne (6 February 1665 – 1 August 1714) gave birth or miscarried a staggering seventeen children, none of whom survived her. One of the saddest openings of a tomb was that of Henry VII's crypt where these many coffins had not in every case been stacked, but scattered on the crypt floor. I imagine someone had got bored with these multiple burials, royal or not. Henry VII, his wife Elizabeth of York and King James I's coffins are also there.

It would be interesting to open the alleged prince's bones urn and compare the DNA with that of their supposed sister: Elizabeth of York, both in Westminster Abbey.

Maybe you've had enough of tales from the crypt?


--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Must agree this story ranks up there. And Pepys was 36? Sounds more like a schoolboy dare to me: 
>
> "Bet you a pint, Sammy--" 
> "You're on. Who else should I kiss? For a ha'pipe of wine?"
>
> Or is there some chance you (or your parents) are old enough to recall the Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday night TV? The weird Spanish puppeteer with the head in the wooden box:
>  
> (" 'S right?" 
> (" 'S right"),
>
> used to creep me out a lot as a kid. Probably still would, today. 
>
> There was some 19th C. pope who opened several famous tombs to see if the owners were still home.
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: HI <hi.dung@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 10:07 AM
> Subject: To kiss a Queen
>
>
>  
> One of the strangest things I've read is about how Katherine of Valois, once wife of Henry V, was treated after death:
>
> `The wooden funeral effigy which was carried at her funeral still survives at Westminster Abbey and is on display in the Undercroft Museum. Her tomb originally boasted an alabaster memorial, which was deliberately destroyed during extensions to the abbey in the reign of her grandson, Henry VII. It has been suggested that Henry ordered her memorial to be removed to distance himself from his illegitimate ancestry. At this time, her coffin lid was accidentally raised, revealing her corpse, which for generations became a tourist attraction. In 1669 the diarist Samuel Pepys kissed the long-deceased queen on his birthday:'
>
> "On Shrove Tuesday 1669, I to the Abbey went, and by favour did see the body of Queen Catherine of Valois, and had the upper part of the body in my hands, and I did kiss her mouth, reflecting upon it I did kiss a Queen: and this my birthday and I thirty-six years old and I did kiss a Queen."
>
> â€" Samuel Pepys
>
> Catherine's remains were not properly re-interred until the reign of Queen Victoria.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Wonder if all the original bones in the urn were even human. I'm reminded of the tale of St. Guinefort. Medieval version of a still extant Urban Legend....

The DNA comparison might not require disturbing too many tombs - isn't there a woman in Nova Scotia or somewhere similar with the right mitachondrial DNA for comparison?

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: HI <hi.dung@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: To kiss a Queen


 
Sooner Pepys than me, given possible contagion of disease! Maybe Pepys was under the influence of alcohol at the time. I recall from a different source that Catherine's body was on display. It had taken on a leathery condition to the touch.

'There was some 19th C. pope who opened several famous tombs to see if the owners were still home.'

Opening royal tombs was something of a pastime during the 18th and 19th century: I know that Edward I and Edward IV were both exposed; both were very tall!

Queen Anne (6 February 1665  1 August 1714) gave birth or miscarried a staggering seventeen children, none of whom survived her. One of the saddest openings of a tomb was that of Henry VII's crypt where these many coffins had not in every case been stacked, but scattered on the crypt floor. I imagine someone had got bored with these multiple burials, royal or not. Henry VII, his wife Elizabeth of York and King James I's coffins are also there.

It would be interesting to open the alleged prince's bones urn and compare the DNA with that of their supposed sister: Elizabeth of York, both in Westminster Abbey.

Maybe you've had enough of tales from the crypt?

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Must agree this story ranks up there. And Pepys was 36? Sounds more like a schoolboy dare to me: 
>
> "Bet you a pint, Sammy--" 
> "You're on. Who else should I kiss? For a ha'pipe of wine?"
>
> Or is there some chance you (or your parents) are old enough to recall the Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday night TV? The weird Spanish puppeteer with the head in the wooden box:
>  
> (" 'S right?" 
> (" 'S right"),
>
> used to creep me out a lot as a kid. Probably still would, today. 
>
> There was some 19th C. pope who opened several famous tombs to see if the owners were still home.
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: HI <hi.dung@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 10:07 AM
> Subject: To kiss a Queen
>
>
>  
> One of the strangest things I've read is about how Katherine of Valois, once wife of Henry V, was treated after death:
>
> `The wooden funeral effigy which was carried at her funeral still survives at Westminster Abbey and is on display in the Undercroft Museum. Her tomb originally boasted an alabaster memorial, which was deliberately destroyed during extensions to the abbey in the reign of her grandson, Henry VII. It has been suggested that Henry ordered her memorial to be removed to distance himself from his illegitimate ancestry. At this time, her coffin lid was accidentally raised, revealing her corpse, which for generations became a tourist attraction. In 1669 the diarist Samuel Pepys kissed the long-deceased queen on his birthday:'
>
> "On Shrove Tuesday 1669, I to the Abbey went, and by favour did see the body of Queen Catherine of Valois, and had the upper part of the body in my hands, and I did kiss her mouth, reflecting upon it I did kiss a Queen: and this my birthday and I thirty-six years old and I did kiss a Queen."
>
> â¬" Samuel Pepys
>
> Catherine's remains were not properly re-interred until the reign of Queen Victoria.
>
>
>
>
>
>