just a thought

i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.

which lead to the question...
who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?

e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?

i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.

roslyn

Lovell, Scrope for starters?


________________________________
From: fayreroze <fayreroze@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
Subject: just a thought


 
i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.

which lead to the question...
who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?

e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?

i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.

roslyn

And...Richard Ratcliffe....

--- In , Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@...> wrote:
>
> Lovell, Scrope for starters?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: fayreroze <fayreroze@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> Subject: just a thought
>
>
>  
> i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
>
> which lead to the question...
> who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
>
> e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
>
> i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
>
> roslyn
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
 
i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
 
Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
 
 
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
Subject: Re: just a thought


 
And...Richard Ratcliffe....

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@...> wrote:
>
> Lovell, Scrope for starters?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: fayreroze <fayreroze@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> Subject: just a thought
>
>
>  
> i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
>
> which lead to the question...
> who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
>
> e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
>
> i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
>
> roslyn
>
>
>
>
>
>

I thought they... Richard and Lovell...were together as youngsters at Middleham....

Was Catesby a turncoat/traitor? His Will suggests so as he implies he thought he was going to get pardoned..... Another mystery....Eileen

--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
>  
> i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
>  
> Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
>  
>  
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>
>  
> And...Richard Ratcliffe....
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> >
> > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > Subject: just a thought
> >
> >
> >  
> > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> >
> > which lead to the question...
> > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> >
> > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> >
> > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> >
> > roslyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

There's a book I read a couple of years ago, can't remember who by or what it is called, which suggests that Catesby rose to power because he told Richard that Hastings had known about Eleanor Butler all along.  I can't remember the detail at all but there is also something in it which suggests Catesby didn't think he was for the chop if Tudor took over.



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 20:14
Subject: Re: just a thought


 
I thought they... Richard and Lovell...were together as youngsters at Middleham....

Was Catesby a turncoat/traitor? His Will suggests so as he implies he thought he was going to get pardoned..... Another mystery....Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
>  
> i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
>  
> Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
>  
>  
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>
>  
> And...Richard Ratcliffe....
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> >
> > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > Subject: just a thought
> >
> >
> > à
> > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> >
> > which lead to the question...
> > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> >
> > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> >
> > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> >
> > roslyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hmmm..that could be possible I suppose...Edward might have told Hastings on one of their 'boy's nights out' when he had a drunk too much...Poor Eleanor....

It was the Stanleys that done for him apparently..no change there then..more slippery than a barrel of eels..In his Will he asks them to "pray for my soul as ye have not for my body which I entrusted to you".....He was at the Council meeting when Hastings for arrested....I wonder what he was up to...Going off on a tangent here a bit but I can never quite understand the criticism leveled at Richard for having Hastings executed....Clearly he was up to no good...Richard would not have had him executed for nought would he?...Its suggested Hastings was involved in an assassination plot....honestly..nothing would surprise me. Eileen
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> There's a book I read a couple of years ago, can't remember who by or what it is called, which suggests that Catesby rose to power because he told Richard that Hastings had known about Eleanor Butler all along.  I can't remember the detail at all but there is also something in it which suggests Catesby didn't think he was for the chop if Tudor took over.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 20:14
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>
>  
> I thought they... Richard and Lovell...were together as youngsters at Middleham....
>
> Was Catesby a turncoat/traitor? His Will suggests so as he implies he thought he was going to get pardoned..... Another mystery....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
> >  
> > i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
> >  
> > Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
> >  
> >  
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> > Subject: Re: just a thought
> >
> >
> >  
> > And...Richard Ratcliffe....
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > > Subject: just a thought
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> > >
> > > which lead to the question...
> > > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> > >
> > > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> > >
> > > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> > >
> > > roslyn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

for h7 he was popped from pillar to post for much of his youth. i think you'd have to check french/brittany archives to find out who he was associated with. his wardship was with his uncle jasper until age 7 or so, and then on to the earl of pembroke, william herbet then to Walter Devereux, baron ferrers of chartley. herbert had been married to walter's daughter anne. i suppose he got custody of h7 when herbert died. so maybe looking around those households could give an indication of who h7's childhood friends were.
 
lovell, if i correctly recall was a ward of proud cis's after her husband's death. i actually just checked my notes. he was a ward of warwick and was raised with richard and anne. lovell's wife anne fitzhugh was a first cousin of anne neville, wife of r3.
 
so lovell would have been a life long friend.  
 
not sure when ratcliffe came into contact with richard.
catesby was associated with hastings.

--- On Fri, 8/17/12, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:


From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
Subject: Re: just a thought
To: "" <>
Received: Friday, August 17, 2012, 10:58 AM



 





Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
 
i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
 
Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
 
 
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
Subject: Re: just a thought

 
And...Richard Ratcliffe....

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@...> wrote:
>
> Lovell, Scrope for starters?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: fayreroze <fayreroze@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> Subject: just a thought
>
>
>  
> i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
>
> which lead to the question...
> who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
>
> e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
>
> i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
>
> roslyn
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ive always like the sound of Lovell....with Richard right to the finish....I would like to think he did make his escape from Bosworth. I live within easy reach of Minster Lovell and go there quite often. It is absolutely beautiful...and peaceful....I hope the story of him dying locked in a secret room there and starving to death is just a myth. Eileen

--- In , fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> for h7 he was popped from pillar to post for much of his youth. i think you'd have to check french/brittany archives to find out who he was associated with. his wardship was with his uncle jasper until age 7 or so, and then on to the earl of pembroke, william herbet then to Walter Devereux, baron ferrers of chartley. herbert had been married to walter's daughter anne. i suppose he got custody of h7 when herbert died. so maybe looking around those households could give an indication of who h7's childhood friends were.
>  
> lovell, if i correctly recall was a ward of proud cis's after her husband's death. i actually just checked my notes. he was a ward of warwick and was raised with richard and anne. lovell's wife anne fitzhugh was a first cousin of anne neville, wife of r3.
>  
> so lovell would have been a life long friend.  
>  
> not sure when ratcliffe came into contact with richard.
> catesby was associated with hastings.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/17/12, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
> Subject: Re: just a thought
> To: "" <>
> Received: Friday, August 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
>  
> i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
>  
> Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
>  
>  
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>  
> And...Richard Ratcliffe....
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> >
> > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > Subject: just a thought
> >
> >
> >  
> > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> >
> > which lead to the question...
> > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> >
> > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> >
> > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> >
> > roslyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Totally agree about Lovell.  I've never been to Minster Lovell, I should really.  Actually to be honest, I've not been to that many of the places associated with Richard.  I didn't have a car for many years and don't have one again now.   
 
I must do a list and start plotting a route for when I do get another one.


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 22:08
Subject: Re: just a thought


 
Ive always like the sound of Lovell....with Richard right to the finish....I would like to think he did make his escape from Bosworth. I live within easy reach of Minster Lovell and go there quite often. It is absolutely beautiful...and peaceful....I hope the story of him dying locked in a secret room there and starving to death is just a myth. Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> for h7 he was popped from pillar to post for much of his youth. i think you'd have to check french/brittany archives to find out who he was associated with. his wardship was with his uncle jasper until age 7 or so, and then on to the earl of pembroke, william herbet then to Walter Devereux, baron ferrers of chartley. herbert had been married to walter's daughter anne. i suppose he got custody of h7 when herbert died. so maybe looking around those households could give an indication of who h7's childhood friends were.
>  
> lovell, if i correctly recall was a ward of proud cis's after her husband's death. i actually just checked my notes. he was a ward of warwick and was raised with richard and anne. lovell's wife anne fitzhugh was a first cousin of anne neville, wife of r3.
>  
> so lovell would have been a life long friend.  
>  
> not sure when ratcliffe came into contact with richard.
> catesby was associated with hastings.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/17/12, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
> Subject: Re: just a thought
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, August 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
>  
> i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
>  
> Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
>  
>  
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>  
> And...Richard Ratcliffe....
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> >
> > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > Subject: just a thought
> >
> >
> > à
> > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> >
> > which lead to the question...
> > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> >
> > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> >
> > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> >
> > roslyn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:08 PM, EileenB wrote:

> Ive always like the sound of Lovell....with Richard right to the
> finish....I would like to think he did make his escape from
> Bosworth. I live within easy reach of Minster Lovell and go there
> quite often. It is absolutely beautiful...and peaceful....

**Except for a couple with their unruly kids, I thought it a wonderful
place.

> I hope the story of him dying locked in a secret room there and
> starving to death is just a myth. Eileen

**From what I've read, it certainly seems to be.

Gilda

Hi Gilda...that is so annoying...I had my visit to Ludlow Castle ruined because of others bad behaviour.....

Im glad you think on the same lines that Lovell did not end up starved to death at Minster Lovell....I dont know why people make this stuff up do you.....?
Eileen


--- In , Gilda Felt <gildaevf@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:08 PM, EileenB wrote:
>
> > Ive always like the sound of Lovell....with Richard right to the
> > finish....I would like to think he did make his escape from
> > Bosworth. I live within easy reach of Minster Lovell and go there
> > quite often. It is absolutely beautiful...and peaceful....
>
> **Except for a couple with their unruly kids, I thought it a wonderful
> place.
>
> > I hope the story of him dying locked in a secret room there and
> > starving to death is just a myth. Eileen
>
> **From what I've read, it certainly seems to be.
>
> Gilda
>

Liz...some Ricardian places are indeed difficult to get to without a car....and they're pretty far flung as well....It can get quite expensive as well if you have to include b&b....Ive noticed the Richard lll Society gets some good trips organised and the booking forms are in the Ricardian Bulletin....
Of course it depends on whether the pick up points are easy to get to from where you are....
Heat wave tomorrow...or so they say...dont hold your breath...Eileen

--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Totally agree about Lovell.  I've never been to Minster Lovell, I should really.  Actually to be honest, I've not been to that many of the places associated with Richard.  I didn't have a car for many years and don't have one again now.   
>  
> I must do a list and start plotting a route for when I do get another one.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 22:08
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>
>  
> Ive always like the sound of Lovell....with Richard right to the finish....I would like to think he did make his escape from Bosworth. I live within easy reach of Minster Lovell and go there quite often. It is absolutely beautiful...and peaceful....I hope the story of him dying locked in a secret room there and starving to death is just a myth. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, fayre rose <fayreroze@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > for h7 he was popped from pillar to post for much of his youth. i think you'd have to check french/brittany archives to find out who he was associated with. his wardship was with his uncle jasper until age 7 or so, and then on to the earl of pembroke, william herbet then to Walter Devereux, baron ferrers of chartley. herbert had been married to walter's daughter anne. i suppose he got custody of h7 when herbert died. so maybe looking around those households could give an indication of who h7's childhood friends were.
> >  
> > lovell, if i correctly recall was a ward of proud cis's after her husband's death. i actually just checked my notes. he was a ward of warwick and was raised with richard and anne. lovell's wife anne fitzhugh was a first cousin of anne neville, wife of r3.
> >  
> > so lovell would have been a life long friend.  
> >  
> > not sure when ratcliffe came into contact with richard.
> > catesby was associated with hastings.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/17/12, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@>
> > Subject: Re: just a thought
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, August 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds right to me.  Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
> >  
> > i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
> >  
> > Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
> >  
> >  
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> > Subject: Re: just a thought
> >
> >  
> > And...Richard Ratcliffe....
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > > Subject: just a thought
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> > >
> > > which lead to the question...
> > > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> > >
> > > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> > >
> > > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> > >
> > > roslyn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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Well it's BOILING here in Colchester!



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2012, 15:26
Subject: Re: just a thought


 
Liz...some Ricardian places are indeed difficult to get to without a car....and they're pretty far flung as well....It can get quite expensive as well if you have to include b&b....Ive noticed the Richard lll Society gets some good trips organised and the booking forms are in the Ricardian Bulletin....
Of course it depends on whether the pick up points are easy to get to from where you are....
Heat wave tomorrow...or so they say...dont hold your breath...Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Totally agree about Lovell.  I've never been to Minster Lovell, I should really.  Actually to be honest, I've not been to that many of the places associated with Richard.  I didn't have a car for many years and don't have one again now.   
>  
> I must do a list and start plotting a route for when I do get another one.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 22:08
> Subject: Re: just a thought
>
>
>  
> Ive always like the sound of Lovell....with Richard right to the finish....I would like to think he did make his escape from Bosworth. I live within easy reach of Minster Lovell and go there quite often. It is absolutely beautiful...and peaceful....I hope the story of him dying locked in a secret room there and starving to death is just a myth. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, fayre rose <fayreroze@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > for h7 he was popped from pillar to post for much of his youth. i think you'd have to check french/brittany archives to find out who he was associated with. his wardship was with his uncle jasper until age 7 or so, and then on toàthe earl of pembroke, william herbet thenàto Walter Devereux, baron ferrers of chartley.àherbert had been married to walter's daughter anne. i suppose he got custody of h7 when herbert died. so maybe looking around those households could give an indication of who h7's childhood friends were.
> > à
> > lovell, if i correctly recall was a ward of proud cis's after her husband's death. i actually just checked my notes. he was a ward of warwick and was raised with richard and anne.àlovell's wife anne fitzhugh was a first cousin of anne neville, wife of r3.
> > à
> > so lovell would have been a life long friend. à
> > à
> > not sure when ratcliffe came into contact with richard.
> > catesby was associated with hastings.
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/17/12, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@>
> > Subject: Re: just a thought
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, August 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > à
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds right to me.à Catesby was a late arrival wasn't he?
> > à
> > i always had the impression - and may be totally wrong on this - that Richard and Francis Lovell were childdhood friends.
> > à
> > Anyone know who Henry Tudor's best mate was at school? :-)
> > à
> > à
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012, 15:18
> > Subject: Re: just a thought
> >
> > à
> > And...Richard Ratcliffe....
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Edward Shine <blancsanglier1452@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Lovell, Scrope for starters?
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: fayreroze <fayreroze@>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:44 PM
> > > Subject: just a thought
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > > i was watching a brief bio/tribute given by kevin spacey for jack lemmon. i got to thinking..hmmm spacey would be good as hastings, and then pooh-poohed the idea quite quickly. john and/or thomas howard then popped into my head.
> > >
> > > which lead to the question...
> > > who were richard's close friends prior to the events of 1483?
> > >
> > > e4 had hastings, but who did richard pal around with on social occassions? who were the members of the councils who advised him in may/june of 1483?
> > >
> > > i know i can look much of this up, but thought this might be a good topic for discussion.
> > >
> > > roslyn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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