Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Rather interesting

Thank you! Yes, I'm on tudor talk also. I'm the person who stands up for
Thomas More whenever someone calls him a coward or worse LOL.
I do'nt know about handwriting from this period, it all looks the same to me,
cramped together and hard to read LOL. But then again, so is my handwriting
LOL.

-Victoria
"Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin of pretty ones."-Oscar
Wilde

Hey, speaking of Thomas More, I have seen two
explations of why his manuscript breaks off before it
is done. Both speak well for Thomas More. Well,
reasonably well.

One is that Thomas More DID write it, but he came to
the conclusion that the things he was learning did not
support the sort of book he was required to write. So
he just kind of dropped it. Later the unfinished
manuscript turned up among his papers.

The other, in that 1893 EHR article, is a very good
argument that Thomas More did not write it. For one
thing, there were apparently copies of the work around
before More could have written them. The theory is
that More was copying it, which is why the manuscript
he had was in his own writing, but he did not finish
copying it. In those days it was common for people to
hand copy their own books.

Dora



--- hockeygirl1016@... wrote:
> Thank you! Yes, I'm on tudor talk also. I'm the
> person who stands up for
> Thomas More whenever someone calls him a coward or
> worse LOL.
> I do'nt know about handwriting from this period, it
> all looks the same to me,
> cramped together and hard to read LOL. But then
> again, so is my handwriting
> LOL.
>
> -Victoria
> "Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin
> of pretty ones."-Oscar
> Wilde
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

The first sounds like the theory that most people look at. He just gave up
with writing it because he never intended for it to be published. I'm looking
for his work A Dialogue of Comfort Against Tribulation, the one he wrote in
the tower. Anyone know of an online version of it?

-Victoria
"Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin of pretty ones."-Oscar
Wilde

My local university library has "Dialogue Against
Comfort". But the catalogue says it is 1331 pages.
It would cost $50 to zerox! And big money to mail.
It looks as though it has been republished several
times recently, and the libraries have seven copies,
though most are for some reason on various sorts of
in-library reserve. You should be able to order a new
copy from amazon.com or something for less than that.

It looks as if it would also be quite a transcription
project, I don't think I've ever seen anything
available on teh Internet that is that long!

Of course, I'm not clear on whether More himself wrote
all 1331 pages.

Do you actually need the entire book?

Dora


--- hockeygirl1016@... wrote:
> The first sounds like the theory that most people
> look at. He just gave up
> with writing it because he never intended for it to
> be published. I'm looking
> for his work A Dialogue of Comfort Against
> Tribulation, the one he wrote in
> the tower. Anyone know of an online version of it?
>
> -Victoria
> "Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin
> of pretty ones."-Oscar
> Wilde
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

I'm just curious about it. I keep hearing how it's one of his most profound
writings and it sounds really captivating. My library doesn't have it :(, but
I'm going to check out some other ones. Thanks anyway

-Victoria
"Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin of pretty ones."-Oscar
Wilde

Don't everyone laugh at once. I bet there are people
on this list who are right up on the answer to this
one!

OK, I'll feel better if you laugh.

My mother and I are having a debate. It turns out
that Rohl et al (wrote Purple Genes, 1998) interviewed
one of the doctors who diagnosed and treated Prince
William of Gloucester in 1968-70 for variegate
porphyria. They learned the details, the clinical
test results, everything.

But my mother insists that "Gloucester" is pronounced
"Glooster". It is proving a little hard to converse
about it. She says, "Don't you dare call it
Gloucester, Young Lady."

Hmm, I guess maybe it was a mistake to fix that gray
hair. :)

Richard (our Richard, not the current Duke of
Gloucester) was the Duke of Gloucester, and he is
referred to simply as "Gloucester" half the time.

I am sure that people on this list know exactly how to
pronounce "Gloucester". Though probably half of us
haven't heard it pronounced more than I have.

I came across a dictionary pronunciation guide for
"Gloucester" in my web searches on the current family
today - I seem to clearly remember FOUR syllables.

My mother insists it is "Glooster", and that that
isn't a matter of regional accent, as she insists that
Gloucester, Massachusetts, is pronounced "Glooster"
too. And also that Worcester is proncounced Wooster.
Now that we know how "rooster" was originally spelled.
"Rochester". (evil grin)

You'd think that with all that corresponding with
people on teh Worcester County list about common
ancestors in Massachusetts I'd be right up on how to
proncounce it, but I've only ever conversed with them
in writing so of course I've never heard them
proncounce it.

OK, how do you pronounce Gloucester?

Yours,
Dora

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

I got that slightly wrong. My mother insists that
Worcester is "Wooster", but "Gloucester" is "Gloster".

Come to think of it, I have seen the name "Gloster"
spelled "Gloster" many a time - in childhood books and
nursery rhymes. Like the doctor from Gloster or
something. I have never been sure it was a real
place!

Dora

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

At 06:45 PM 1/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
>My local university library has "Dialogue Against
>Comfort". But the catalogue says it is 1331 pages.
>It would cost $50 to zerox!

Yale University Press brought out the complete works of Sir Thomas More
over the course of a couple of decades, and they're considered the
definitive edition. They're also widely available in university libraries,
although I suspect they tend to be on permanent reserve as part of seminar
collections. Victoria might try requesting them via interlibrary loan, or
consulting a university library near her.

--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

At 07:12 PM 1/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I got that slightly wrong. My mother insists that
>Worcester is "Wooster", but "Gloucester" is "Gloster".
>

Pay attention to your mother. She's a wise woman.

Worcester is Wooster
Gloucester is Gloster
Leicester is Lester
And Fotheringhay is....a beautiful church.

--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

Hi Dora,

Being as how I am English (wink) I would say that we pronounce Gloucester

"Gloster"

Not Glooster.

There are other ticklesome examples for instance certain people pronounce
Circencester "Cicester"

All best

Jessica

I think I found a copy at another library, thanks!

-Victoria
"Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin of pretty ones."-Oscar
Wilde

Hey Richard was ticked off at Buckingham. Maybe as he was writing he thought
about Buckingham again and started writing really big to express his rage
lol.

-Victoria
"Crying is the refuge of plain women, but the ruin of pretty ones."-Oscar
Wilde

Dora Smith28/01/2003 4:02tiggernut24@...

> how do you pronounce Gloucester?
simply GLOSS-STIR
Paul

Laura Blanchard28/01/2003 4:26lblanchard@...

> Worcester is Wooster
well actually I'd say wuss-stir
> Gloucester is Gloster
and gloss-stir as I said in another post

and I am mere English!
Paul

Jessica Rydill28/01/2003 12:10la@...

> There are other ticklesome examples for instance certain people pronounce
> Circencester "Cicester"
and my favourite Yorkshire village Appletreewick which is said APTWICK for
some reason!
Paul

At 08:16 PM 1/28/03 +0100, you wrote:
>Laura Blanchard28/01/2003 4:26lblanchard@...
>
>> Worcester is Wooster
>well actually I'd say wuss-stir

That was oo as in took, not oo as in oops, as I mentioned elsewhere.

>> Gloucester is Gloster
>and gloss-stir as I said in another post

Where is the schwa when we need it??? When I took singers' diction, a long
time ago, I learned specific symbols , as opposed to letters, for sounds.
Thus, Worcester would have been rendered as w-short 00 - s, accent mark to
indicate syllable stress, schwa, r.

>and I am mere English!
>Paul
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

A beautiful church.

OK.

I know enough to leave that one alone.

Dora

--- Laura Blanchard <lblanchard@...> wrote:
> At 07:12 PM 1/27/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> >I got that slightly wrong. My mother insists that
> >Worcester is "Wooster", but "Gloucester" is
> "Gloster".
> >
>
> Pay attention to your mother. She's a wise woman.
>
> Worcester is Wooster
> Gloucester is Gloster
> Leicester is Lester
> And Fotheringhay is....a beautiful church.
>
> --
> Laura Blanchard
> lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area
> Consortium of Special
> Collections Libraries
> lblanchard@... (all other mail)
> Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Laura, one question; of all the people I would have
expected to be in Britain, it would probably be you,
but I believe you're a librarian in the US. Exactly
where are these things proncounced this way?

Dora

>
> Worcester is Wooster
> Gloucester is Gloster
> Leicester is Lester
> And Fotheringhay is....a beautiful church.
>
> --
> Laura Blanchard
> lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area
> Consortium of Special
> Collections Libraries
> lblanchard@... (all other mail)
> Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Jessica:

Whea aboots in England aw you? Seriously, in much of
England, that is how people talk; also in some
isolated parts of Massachusetts, North Carolina, and
the Louisiana Bayou, and it is hardly the standard
pronunciation of those words.

Since the dictionary said it was pronounced the way it
is spelled, it must have once in some place have been
pronounced the way it is spelled or it would never
have been spelled that way, and the fact that r's
appeared to leave Massachusetts (where I guess people
are conentratedly inbred descendants of very early
English settlers) and migrated to Texas, they must
have actually been pwonounced somewhea's.

I am wondering how big a role regional dialect is
playing hea. What region of England do you live in?

Dora

--- Jessica Rydill <la@...> wrote:
> Hi Dora,
>
> Being as how I am English (wink) I would say that we
> pronounce Gloucester
>
> "Gloster"
>
> Not Glooster.
>
> There are other ticklesome examples for instance
> certain people pronounce
> Circencester "Cicester"
>
> All best
>
> Jessica
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

At 06:02 AM 1/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
>Laura, one question; of all the people I would have
>expected to be in Britain, it would probably be you,
>but I believe you're a librarian in the US. Exactly
>where are these things proncounced this way?
>

Wherever learned and literate people gather (*grin*). But I live in
Philadelphia, one of the western suburbs of London (*grin again*).

--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

Paul:

Whereabouts in England are you? This could be a
dialectical or regional variation that got inherited
by Massachusetts. Sure and not all the English
speaking world can't pronounce an "r"!

Dora

--- "P.T.Bale" <paultrevor@...> wrote:
> Laura Blanchard28/01/2003
> 4:26lblanchard@...
>
> > Worcester is Wooster
> well actually I'd say wuss-stir
> > Gloucester is Gloster
> and gloss-stir as I said in another post
>
> and I am mere English!
> Paul
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

That is actually easy to figure out. Yorkshire is
quite distinctively and notoriously a part of England
where they don't pronounce the letter "r". It is the
source of all them "ah"'s in the American South.

Yorkshire dialect also concatenates words like it is
going out of style.

Ah you in Yorkshire?

How do they pronounce the word Yorkshire, anyhow?

Dora

--- "P.T.Bale" <paultrevor@...> wrote:
> Jessica Rydill28/01/2003
> 12:10la@...
>
> > There are other ticklesome examples for instance
> certain people pronounce
> > Circencester "Cicester"
> and my favourite Yorkshire village Appletreewick
> which is said APTWICK for
> some reason!
> Paul
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Hi Dora,

Well, medear, I live in Bath where they do talk a bit like this...

But in fact I suffer from received pronunciation and sound quite "posh" ie I
don't have a regional accent.

I haven't noticed missing "r"s much though oddly I do sometimes find I say w
instead of r, I got this from my mother who was born in Hampshire
(Portsmouth).

Gloucester is not far north of Bath. In Shakespeare's Richard III, if you
follow the scansion, it is certainly pronounced Gloster.

But back in the 15th century I'm not so sure. There is that charming
preface by Caxton in which he complains about the different dialects in
England. I think he said something like "no man understands other". Now
Chaucer...not sure of myself here...but presumably he wrote courtly dialect
though he could write local if he wanted to eg the Clerkes of Oxenforde in
the Miller's Tale.

In...a poem...(sorry!) there is a line that goes:

"The Duke of Gloucester, that noble prince
Young of age and victorious in battle"

I can't remember the exact spelling but it is contemporary and I have a
feeling the scansion of that suggests a 2-syllable rendition of Gloucester
(though it is spelt otherwise). So it would be Gloster. I have even seen
it spelled Gloster somewhere.

Cheers

Jessica

>
> Whea aboots in England aw you? Seriously, in much of
> England, that is how people talk; also in some
> isolated parts of Massachusetts, North Carolina, and
> the Louisiana Bayou, and it is hardly the standard
> pronunciation of those words.
>
> Since the dictionary said it was pronounced the way it
> is spelled, it must have once in some place have been
> pronounced the way it is spelled or it would never
> have been spelled that way, and the fact that r's
> appeared to leave Massachusetts (where I guess people
> are conentratedly inbred descendants of very early
> English settlers) and migrated to Texas, they must
> have actually been pwonounced somewhea's.
>
> I am wondering how big a role regional dialect is
> playing hea. What region of England do you live in?
>
> Dora

My boss just informed me that Worcester is not
pronounced wooster, it is pronounced "worchester" like
the sauce.

I called my housemate's mother, who just acted in the
play Richard III, and he told me that "Gloucester" is
proncounced "Glowster". As in "ouch". Not gloster.

He told me the reason why is the same as the reason
why Worcester sauce is pronounced, "Worstechir" sauce.
For Worcestershire sauce.

Yours,
Dora

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

I talked to the church chef. He comes to us from a
career as a chef in some of Austin's better
restaurants.

He said worcestershire sauce is "worstechir" sauce.

I checked with my boss; she said, worchester sauce.
But then she began tripping over the word and told me
how she learned how to pronounce it, is an old
southern joke that the name originiated when an old
gentleman in a restaurant said "whatchishere sauce?"

I said, "You'd never call it "woostershire sauce". He
said, Worcester, is pronounced Wooster or more
correctly Wister - but it's REALLY pronounced
"wuister", which readily turns into wister.

I saw the suggestion that I try a scholarly source.
Didn't get a chance to check it yet. But I already
have a dictionary answer. Gloucester, is pronounced,
"Gloucester". Hence I think the answer to why so
many people are insisting these words are pronounced a
different way is most likley not in the dictionary.
Dora

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Actually it isn't as someone who hails from Yorkshire - it is a vast area
incorporating numerous major cities and vast tracts of countryside (actually
consists of 4 and a bit counties these days). I can assure you the "r" is
pronounced. Regional accents in the UK vary a great deal - a person from
rural North Yorkshire would speak very differently to someone who lived in
central Leeds or Sheffield. It depends on age, background, education,
whether a person has always lived in a certain area etc, is affected by
television and radio programmes over a period of years.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@...>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: How do you pronounce "Gloucester",
as in Richard, Duke of Gloucester?


> That is actually easy to figure out. Yorkshire is
> quite distinctively and notoriously a part of England
> where they don't pronounce the letter "r". It is the
> source of all them "ah"'s in the American South.
>
> Yorkshire dialect also concatenates words like it is
> going out of style.
>
> Ah you in Yorkshire?
>
> How do they pronounce the word Yorkshire, anyhow?
>
> Dora
>
> --- "P.T.Bale" <paultrevor@...> wrote:
> > Jessica Rydill28/01/2003
> > 12:10la@...
> >
> > > There are other ticklesome examples for instance
> > certain people pronounce
> > > Circencester "Cicester"
> > and my favourite Yorkshire village Appletreewick
> > which is said APTWICK for
> > some reason!
> > Paul
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Western suburb of London?

My father's family are from immediately south of
Philadelphia, and two entire groups of them were among
the people who founded Germantown.

Pennsylvania has a unique dialect that went to
Appalachia and followed a trail that ends in Texas,
along with the lines of migration of my father's
ancestors. The fact that I now live in Texas is
coincidence. This dialect is said to be Pennsylvania
Dutch, but many of its features are Scottish.
Pennsylvania was as far as I know settled mostly by
Scotch-Irish and German people, though there were also
a large group of Anglo-Irish Quakers. An example is
"warsh" for wash. This is an example given in the
silly science story about American regional dialect
and r's. That is a Scottish word for wash.

In what way is Philadelphia a western suburb of
London?

Dora



--- Laura Blanchard <lblanchard@...> wrote:
> At 06:02 AM 1/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >Laura, one question; of all the people I would have
> >expected to be in Britain, it would probably be
> you,
> >but I believe you're a librarian in the US.
> Exactly
> >where are these things proncounced this way?
> >
>
> Wherever learned and literate people gather
> (*grin*). But I live in
> Philadelphia, one of the western suburbs of London
> (*grin again*).
>
> --
> Laura Blanchard
> lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area
> Consortium of Special
> Collections Libraries
> lblanchard@... (all other mail)
> Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

At 10:37 AM 1/30/03 -0800, you wrote:
>Western suburb of London?

At one time Philadelphia was the largest English speaking city in the
world, with the except of London. Meaning it was bigger than York, bigger
than Bristol, bigger than Birmingham, etc.

>My father's family are from immediately south of
>Philadelphia, and two entire groups of them were among
>the people who founded Germantown.
>
>Pennsylvania has a unique dialect that went to
>Appalachia and followed a trail that ends in Texas,
>along with the lines of migration of my father's
>ancestors. The fact that I now live in Texas is
>coincidence. This dialect is said to be Pennsylvania
>Dutch, but many of its features are Scottish.
>Pennsylvania was as far as I know

If you mean Pennsylvania German, it's definitely a variant of low German.
Quite a few of my ancestors spoke it. There was a large influx of German
settlers in Pennsylvania, dating from the seventeenth century founding of
Germantown, and the country's first abolitionist proclamation took place
there, just half a block from where my father was born. Much of the
countryside of Pennsylvania looks more German than English. A fair number
of the Quakers were not Anglo-Irish at all -- my Quaker ancestors, for
example, come from Great Moorsholm, Skelton-in-Cleveland.



settled mostly by
>Scotch-Irish and German people, though there were also
>a large group of Anglo-Irish Quakers. An example is
>"warsh" for wash. This is an example given in the
>silly science story about American regional dialect
>and r's. That is a Scottish word for wash.
>
>In what way is Philadelphia a western suburb of
>London?
>

It's a metaphor, Dora, describing the close cultural ties between London
and Philadelphia in the eighteenth century.

--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

Dora Smith30/01/2003 18:31tiggernut24@...

> My boss just informed me that Worcester is not
> pronounced wooster, it is pronounced "worchester" like
> the sauce.
well he's wrong and right at the same time as it is said the same as the
sauce which is pronounced wuss stir!
Paul

>
> At one time Philadelphia was the largest English
> speaking city in the
> world, with the except of London. Meaning it was
> bigger than York, bigger
> than Bristol, bigger than Birmingham, etc.

My father grew up in Philadelphia, the son of a rising
bank executive; I guess he just never kept track of
that! He always hated snobbery.

>
> If you mean Pennsylvania German, it's definitely a
> variant of low German.
> Quite a few of my ancestors spoke it. There was a
> large influx of German
> settlers in Pennsylvania, dating from the
> seventeenth century founding of
> Germantown, and the country's first abolitionist
> proclamation took place
> there, just half a block from where my father was
> born. Much of the
> countryside of Pennsylvania looks more German than
> English. A fair number
> of the Quakers were not Anglo-Irish at all -- my
> Quaker ancestors, for
> example, come from Great Moorsholm,
> Skelton-in-Cleveland.
>
Boy, I thought never thought a librarian in
Philadelphia would have roots there! (grin)
>
> It's a metaphor, Dora, describing the close cultural
> ties between London
> and Philadelphia in the eighteenth century.

Oh, OK.

Dora


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

At 06:36 AM 1/31/03 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>> At one time Philadelphia was the largest English
>> speaking city in the
>> world, with the except of London. Meaning it was
>> bigger than York, bigger
>> than Bristol, bigger than Birmingham, etc.
>
>My father grew up in Philadelphia, the son of a rising
>bank executive; I guess he just never kept track of
>that! He always hated snobbery.
>

If your father was alive in the later eighteenth and earlier nineteenth
centuries, which is when this was true, you're older than I thought!


--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

Not quite. Sorry. Since you aren't that old, and I
was supposed to have known of the cultural link, I
didn't know my father needed to be that old.

Nevertheless he managed to grow up in Philadelphia and
his parents live there for twenty years before he was
born, without learning of the cultural link you speak
of.

Dora

--- Laura Blanchard <lblanchard@...> wrote:
> At 06:36 AM 1/31/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >>
> >> At one time Philadelphia was the largest English
> >> speaking city in the
> >> world, with the except of London. Meaning it was
> >> bigger than York, bigger
> >> than Bristol, bigger than Birmingham, etc.
> >
> >My father grew up in Philadelphia, the son of a
> rising
> >bank executive; I guess he just never kept track of
> >that! He always hated snobbery.
> >
>
> If your father was alive in the later eighteenth and
> earlier nineteenth
> centuries, which is when this was true, you're older
> than I thought!
>
>
> --
> Laura Blanchard
> lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area
> Consortium of Special
> Collections Libraries
> lblanchard@... (all other mail)
> Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com