Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
2012-09-17 18:17:47
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
(And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
sense, medically.
best wishes,
Marianne
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
(And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
sense, medically.
best wishes,
Marianne
Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
2012-09-17 19:04:16
Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in, we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
Tanner and Wright started with Westminster and Shrewsbury in their minds and greatly affected their judgement.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr M M Gilchrist
To:
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
(And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
sense, medically.
best wishes,
Marianne
Tanner and Wright started with Westminster and Shrewsbury in their minds and greatly affected their judgement.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr M M Gilchrist
To:
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
(And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
sense, medically.
best wishes,
Marianne
Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
2012-09-17 19:08:28
Marianne,
You sound like my son, who is an archaeologist and a pre-historian!
He too makes fun of my longing for astonishing revelations. Ah well! I suppose the truth is more important, if less exciting.
The Medici Project looks fascinating
--- In , Dr M M Gilchrist <docm@...> wrote:
>
> > Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> > on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
>
> Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
> about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
>
> > The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> > he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> > and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> > Ekaterinburg.
>
> And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
> was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
>
> > And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> > Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
>
> No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
> painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
> cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
> clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
>
> Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
> the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
> walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
> velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
> vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
>
> What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
> lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
> which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
> done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
> http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
> (And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
> some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
> grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
> Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
> It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
> sense, medically.
> best wishes,
> Marianne
>
You sound like my son, who is an archaeologist and a pre-historian!
He too makes fun of my longing for astonishing revelations. Ah well! I suppose the truth is more important, if less exciting.
The Medici Project looks fascinating
--- In , Dr M M Gilchrist <docm@...> wrote:
>
> > Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> > on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
>
> Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
> about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
>
> > The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> > he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> > and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> > Ekaterinburg.
>
> And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
> was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
>
> > And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> > Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
>
> No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
> painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
> cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
> clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
>
> Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
> the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
> walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
> velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
> vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
>
> What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
> lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
> which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
> done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
> http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
> (And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
> some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
> grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
> Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
> It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
> sense, medically.
> best wishes,
> Marianne
>
Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
2012-09-17 19:47:44
What a scream it would be if they turned out to be favoured pet chimps from the menagerie ...
(I don't really think they are by the way but wouldn't it be a hoot)
________________________________
From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 17 September 2012, 19:04
Subject: Re: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in, we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
Tanner and Wright started with Westminster and Shrewsbury in their minds and greatly affected their judgement.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr M M Gilchrist
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
(And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
sense, medically.
best wishes,
Marianne
(I don't really think they are by the way but wouldn't it be a hoot)
________________________________
From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 17 September 2012, 19:04
Subject: Re: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in, we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
Tanner and Wright started with Westminster and Shrewsbury in their minds and greatly affected their judgement.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dr M M Gilchrist
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
(And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
sense, medically.
best wishes,
Marianne
Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
2012-09-17 19:53:20
Well there were some rabbit bones amongst them so anything is likely..
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> What a scream it would be if they turned out to be favoured pet chimps from the menagerie ...
> Â
> (I don't really think they are by the way but wouldn't it be a hoot)
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 17 September 2012, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
>
>
> Â
> Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in, we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
> Tanner and Wright started with Westminster and Shrewsbury in their minds and greatly affected their judgement.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dr M M Gilchrist
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
>
> > Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> > on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
>
> Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
> about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
>
> > The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> > he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> > and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> > Ekaterinburg.
>
> And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
> was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
>
> > And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> > Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
>
> No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
> painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
> cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
> clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
>
> Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
> the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
> walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
> velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
> vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
>
> What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
> lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
> which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
> done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
> http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
> (And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
> some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
> grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
> Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
> It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
> sense, medically.
> best wishes,
> Marianne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> What a scream it would be if they turned out to be favoured pet chimps from the menagerie ...
> Â
> (I don't really think they are by the way but wouldn't it be a hoot)
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 17 September 2012, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
>
>
> Â
> Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in, we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
> Tanner and Wright started with Westminster and Shrewsbury in their minds and greatly affected their judgement.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dr M M Gilchrist
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
>
> > Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> > on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
>
> Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
> about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
>
> > The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> > he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> > and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> > Ekaterinburg.
>
> And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
> was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
>
> > And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> > Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
>
> No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
> painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
> cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
> clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
>
> Re: the bones in Westminster, I suspect they may be too old, given
> the depth where they were found. Another set of bones had been found
> walled up, since lost, which sound more plausible (claims of bits of
> velvet). There's also mention on Wikipedia of some coffins in the
> vault at Windsor, that I hadn't heard about before.
>
> What is really needed is a full-blown Plantagenet Project, along the
> lines of the fantastic Medici Project on palaeopathology in Florence,
> which is investigating illnesses, causes of death & c there. They've
> done some superb work: see this wonderful site!
> http://www.paleopatologia.it/articoli/paleopat.php
> (And for those interested in a UK historical and literary connection,
> some of the people investigated were Henriette-Marie's maternal
> grandparents and other relatives, who inspired 'Women, Beware
> Women'.) There are some interesting spinal deformities there.
> It would be very exciting to get to know these characters in a real
> sense, medically.
> best wishes,
> Marianne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
mtDNA and palaeopathology
2012-09-17 20:13:18
Dear all,
> Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in,
> we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of
> deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
I think I read somewhere there was *yet another* pair of skellies
found once, that turned out to be escaped apes from the menagerie.
> You sound like my son, who is an archaeologist and a pre-historian!
> He too makes fun of my longing for astonishing revelations. Ah
> well! I suppose the truth is more important, if less exciting.
Au contraire, the truth is always more exciting *because it is the
truth*.
> I always wonder why people remember Shakespeare's tale of Richard
> having his
> nephews murdered, while forgetting Shakespeare's tale of King John
> murdering
> his nephew - which is historically more accurate.
Ah yes, Arthur... An aggressive 16-year-old (an adult in his time)
who'd held his own grandmother hostage.
No-one does that to Eleanor...
love,
Marianne
> Not only do we not know which century the 1674 find was buried in,
> we don't really know the quantity, gender, age at death, number of
> deceased or even species. We do know them to be primates of some sort.
I think I read somewhere there was *yet another* pair of skellies
found once, that turned out to be escaped apes from the menagerie.
> You sound like my son, who is an archaeologist and a pre-historian!
> He too makes fun of my longing for astonishing revelations. Ah
> well! I suppose the truth is more important, if less exciting.
Au contraire, the truth is always more exciting *because it is the
truth*.
> I always wonder why people remember Shakespeare's tale of Richard
> having his
> nephews murdered, while forgetting Shakespeare's tale of King John
> murdering
> his nephew - which is historically more accurate.
Ah yes, Arthur... An aggressive 16-year-old (an adult in his time)
who'd held his own grandmother hostage.
No-one does that to Eleanor...
love,
Marianne
OT Shroud of Turin (was RE: mtDNA and palaeopathology)
2012-09-17 23:52:50
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Dr M M
Gilchrist
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:18 PM
To:
Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
[Johanne Tournier] <snip>
[Johanne Tournier] I'll just make this a quickie, since I've just rejoined
due to all the kerfuffle about the remains in Leicester, of course.
Regarding the Shroud, however, I would be so bold as to say that you are
wrong in saying that it is a painted image. The Shroud has been tested and
photographed in detail, and it's pretty certain that it's not a painted
image. I am not right up on all the latest, but my recollection is that the
DNA analysis that declared it medieval was from the "upper left" portion of
the edge of the Shroud - a portion which it's known was held at one time
when the Shroud was periodically put on public display.
For anyone who is interested, check out the website of Barry Schwortz. Mr.
Schwortz was the photographer on a previous Shroud project. And he's Jewish.
But the result of his involvement with the Shroud was that he became a
believer in the legitimacy of the Shroud. His website provides a lot of
information, both pro and con.
http://www.shroud.com
Johanne
(looking forward to positive news about the skeleton being that of the late,
lamented King Richard.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
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[mailto:] On Behalf Of Dr M M
Gilchrist
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 2:18 PM
To:
Subject: Re: mtDNA and palaeopathology
> Whenever DNA has solved an historical problem it's always come down
> on the side that we 'romantics' would not wish.
Speak for yourself, favefauve: some of us are pretty level-headed
about these things. What matters is evidence, above all.
> The boy who died in the Temple prison in Paris WAS the Dauphin, so
> he didn't escape as many believed; Anna Anderson wasn't Anastasia -
> and all the Russian Imperial Family died in the cellar in
> Ekaterinburg.
And it just boggles me that Franziska Schanzkowska's fantasy, which
was full of holes, rumbled on for so long...
> And I know it's not DNA, but didn't everyone hope that the Turin
> Shroud was be dated to 1st century Palestine?
No, because it was never remotely plausible that it might. It's a
painting on fabric that's been through the 16C equivalent of a spin-
cycle: it's known from images of it that the figure painting was
clearer before the nuns washed it after the fire damage.
[Johanne Tournier] <snip>
[Johanne Tournier] I'll just make this a quickie, since I've just rejoined
due to all the kerfuffle about the remains in Leicester, of course.
Regarding the Shroud, however, I would be so bold as to say that you are
wrong in saying that it is a painted image. The Shroud has been tested and
photographed in detail, and it's pretty certain that it's not a painted
image. I am not right up on all the latest, but my recollection is that the
DNA analysis that declared it medieval was from the "upper left" portion of
the edge of the Shroud - a portion which it's known was held at one time
when the Shroud was periodically put on public display.
For anyone who is interested, check out the website of Barry Schwortz. Mr.
Schwortz was the photographer on a previous Shroud project. And he's Jewish.
But the result of his involvement with the Shroud was that he became a
believer in the legitimacy of the Shroud. His website provides a lot of
information, both pro and con.
http://www.shroud.com
Johanne
(looking forward to positive news about the skeleton being that of the late,
lamented King Richard.)
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Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
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