Re: [Richard III Society Forum] Re: Margaret of York, Richard III's

Malines and "in her last few years" Binche. pg 190 in the Weightman.

Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: <mrslpickering@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Margaret of York, Richard III's
sister


Hi Nate/Laura

<Sorry to interrupt the Catesby festivities,>

Not at all...I'm glad of the opportunity to stop
wondering about old Wm's non-knighthood <g>.

Laura's right - Ms Weightman's book on the
"Diabolical Duchess" is definitely the place to look.
I'm away from it at the moment, but I've
a vague notion she set up Court at either
Malines or Mechelen (sp?) but I'll double-check
and get back ASAP as I'm not sure of
either the places or the timeframe
(ie. whether it was pre-or post-Bosworth)
on that.

Regards - Lorraine




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Hi Charlie, Nate & All

<Malines and "in her last few years" Binche. pg 190
in the Weightman.>

Many thanks for the above ref. And Malines is also mentioned earlier
on in Weightman on p113:

"..the dowager [Margaret] removed her court further north to Malines
in Brabant which was to become her principal residence during the 26
yrs of her widowhood".

Now that was a *lot* easier than sorting out Catesby! :)

Regards - Lorraine

<I've a vague notion she set up Court at either
Malines or Mechelen (sp?) but I'll double-check
and get back ASAP>

>
> <I've a vague notion she set up Court at either
> Malines or Mechelen (sp?) but I'll double-check
> and get back ASAP>

Yes, it seems that the two are the same place. Northern Belgium in
the Antwerp province. Or Mechlin, I've seen it printed. Now I'll
haveto find that book, for there's virtually nothing online.

I guess that would make Margaret Dowager Duchess of Burgundy? Then
there's Mary, her step-daughter, who I think got around to marrying
Maximilian I, yes? It seems Margaret was safe in Flanders while
Charles VIII was tearing apart Italy.

Thanks, all! This is very helpful. Interesting that Margaret and
Mary are both known as Burgundians when Burgundy as we know it had
ceased to exist!

Nate

Nate

Margaret of Burgundy was indeed Dowager Duchess of Burgundy after her
husband's death. Her stepdaughter, Mary, married Archduke Maximilian
of Austria, later Emperor, and they had two children. Mary, sole
heiress to Burgundy and so Duchess in her own right, died falling
from a horse in January 1482, whereupon her son, Philip 'the
Handsome' became Duke of Burgundy, with Maximilian as regent.

I haven't got the dates to hand, but in the late 1490s, Philip, now
adult, married Juana, daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain,
and elder sister of Catherine of Aragon. The son of this marriage was
the Emperor Charles V. Juana nominally succeeded her mother as Queen
of Castile in 1504, but she was already showing signs of mental
instability and became completely deranged after Philip's premature
death in (?)1507. Thereafter, Juana was confined in a Spanish castle
until her death in the 1560s, during which time first her father,
Ferdinand, then her son Charles V, and finally her grandson Philip II
ruled Spain in her name.

How is the libretto going?

Ann


--- In , "natusm
<nvenice2@a...>" <nvenice2@a...> wrote:
>
> >
> > <I've a vague notion she set up Court at either
> > Malines or Mechelen (sp?) but I'll double-check
> > and get back ASAP>
>
> Yes, it seems that the two are the same place. Northern Belgium in
> the Antwerp province. Or Mechlin, I've seen it printed. Now I'll
> haveto find that book, for there's virtually nothing online.
>
> I guess that would make Margaret Dowager Duchess of Burgundy? Then
> there's Mary, her step-daughter, who I think got around to marrying
> Maximilian I, yes? It seems Margaret was safe in Flanders while
> Charles VIII was tearing apart Italy.
>
> Thanks, all! This is very helpful. Interesting that Margaret and
> Mary are both known as Burgundians when Burgundy as we know it had
> ceased to exist!
>
> Nate

Curioser and curioser!

And, correct me if I'm very wrong, it was this same mad Juana that
old, widowed Henry Tudor was promised to in his dotage. Or so I've
heard (yes, I can't get away from the man. I must be driving you all
crazy!)

Thanks, Ann! I'm just finishing one of my most complicated scenes
which portrays the growing conspiracy of the Yorkist exiles previous
to the Battle of Stoke. Lovell, Stafford, Lincoln, Suffolk, and
finally Margaret, surrounded by her Rose Maidens. Sounds straight
out of Parsifal! I think I imprinted on all Verdi's conspiracy
scenes growing up, for I sure have an affinity for them! Anyway, Act
I should be done soon and thank God! It's about time!

Oh, yes! Anyone know what happened to the Duke of Suffolk, John of
Lincoln and Edmund of Suffolk's father? Was he pro-Ricardian? How
did he deal with Henry Tudor? Did he support his sons in the Simnel
rising? I assume his wife Elizabeth died before Bosworth. He's like
a loose thread.

Expect more off-topic, incidental questions, I'm afraid! Thanks
again so much for the information, Ann et al!

Nate





--- In , aelyon2001
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Nate
>
> Margaret of Burgundy was indeed Dowager Duchess of Burgundy after
her
> husband's death. Her stepdaughter, Mary, married Archduke
Maximilian
> of Austria, later Emperor, and they had two children. Mary, sole
> heiress to Burgundy and so Duchess in her own right, died falling
> from a horse in January 1482, whereupon her son, Philip 'the
> Handsome' became Duke of Burgundy, with Maximilian as regent.
>
> I haven't got the dates to hand, but in the late 1490s, Philip, now
> adult, married Juana, daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain,
> and elder sister of Catherine of Aragon. The son of this marriage
was
> the Emperor Charles V. Juana nominally succeeded her mother as
Queen
> of Castile in 1504, but she was already showing signs of mental
> instability and became completely deranged after Philip's premature
> death in (?)1507. Thereafter, Juana was confined in a Spanish
castle
> until her death in the 1560s, during which time first her father,
> Ferdinand, then her son Charles V, and finally her grandson Philip
II
> ruled Spain in her name.
>
> How is the libretto going?
>
> Ann
>
>
> --- In , "natusm
> <nvenice2@a...>" <nvenice2@a...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > <I've a vague notion she set up Court at either
> > > Malines or Mechelen (sp?) but I'll double-check
> > > and get back ASAP>
> >
> > Yes, it seems that the two are the same place. Northern Belgium
in
> > the Antwerp province. Or Mechlin, I've seen it printed. Now
I'll
> > haveto find that book, for there's virtually nothing online.
> >
> > I guess that would make Margaret Dowager Duchess of Burgundy?
Then
> > there's Mary, her step-daughter, who I think got around to
marrying
> > Maximilian I, yes? It seems Margaret was safe in Flanders while
> > Charles VIII was tearing apart Italy.
> >
> > Thanks, all! This is very helpful. Interesting that Margaret
and
> > Mary are both known as Burgundians when Burgundy as we know it
had
> > ceased to exist!
> >
> > Nate

I believe R3's sister Elizabeth was still living after Bosworth,
Nate, but I'm not sure about her husband, but now I think
about it, and without checking, I can't recall him
having any opinions on Richard's accession, or
about Henry Tudor - or of Lincoln first making some
sort of accom with the Tudor regime (he was on
H&'s Coincil, IIRC) then John's subsequent desertion of Henry's
Court for the Lovell-assisted mini-rebellions in
the north, and the later more serious plots and
Battle of Stoke, either.

Regards - Lorraine

< Oh, yes! Anyone know what happened to the Duke of Suffolk, John of
> Lincoln and Edmund of Suffolk's father? Was he pro-Ricardian? How
> did he deal with Henry Tudor? Did he support his sons in the
Simnel rising? I assume his wife Elizabeth died before Bosworth.
He's like a loose thread.>

At 05:49 PM 2/8/03 -0000, you wrote:
Lovell, Stafford, Lincoln, Suffolk, and
>finally Margaret, surrounded by her Rose Maidens. Sounds straight
>out of Parsifal! I think I imprinted on all Verdi's conspiracy
>scenes

????

sorry, not following this. Parsifal is Wagner and I don't see the
connection with "Verdi conspiracy scenes," although that may be because I
just came back from a performance of Traviata, which is a little weak on
conspiracy scenes.
The ending of Traviata is a bit like the ending of Shakespeare's Richard
III for me -- I know exactly how it's going to end, but every time I hope
the outcome will be different.


--
Laura Blanchard
lblancha@... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
Collections Libraries
lblanchard@... (all other mail)
Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

Sorry, Laura. Rose Maidens sounded to me very much like the Flower
Maidens in Parsifal.

Traviata is actually unlike most of Verdi's operas in that it's quite
unpolitical. Which is why, great as it is, I'm less interested in
it. Give me I Vespri Siciliani, Un Ballo in Maschera, or Don Carlo
any day. I guess that's why I'm writing about Henry Tudor...

Apologies! Terribly off-topic! Pray continue...


--- In , Laura Blanchard
<lblanchard@r...> wrote:
> At 05:49 PM 2/8/03 -0000, you wrote:
> Lovell, Stafford, Lincoln, Suffolk, and
> >finally Margaret, surrounded by her Rose Maidens. Sounds straight
> >out of Parsifal! I think I imprinted on all Verdi's conspiracy
> >scenes
>
> ????
>
> sorry, not following this. Parsifal is Wagner and I don't see the
> connection with "Verdi conspiracy scenes," although that may be
because I
> just came back from a performance of Traviata, which is a little
weak on
> conspiracy scenes.
> The ending of Traviata is a bit like the ending of Shakespeare's
Richard
> III for me -- I know exactly how it's going to end, but every time
I hope
> the outcome will be different.
>
>
> --
> Laura Blanchard
> lblancha@p... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
> Collections Libraries
> lblanchard@r... (all other mail)
> Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

Nate

I don't know anything much about the Duke of Suffolk, but that is as
much as anything because he is not recorded as doing anything
significant, apart, of course, from fathering a large family.

According to J.J. Scarisbrick (Henry VIII, 1968)pp.83-84, Henry VIII
did indeed briefly consider marrying Juana 'la Loca', sister of
Catherine of Aragon, but this was in 1514 and mainly as an act of
revenge against their father, Ferdinand of Aragon, who had failed to
support Henry in his campaign in France the previous. I'd be
surprised if Henry seriously considered marrying Juana in his dotage,
since she was a good deal older than he was and so well past child-
bearing age at that time.

I'm looking forward to hearing your opera! Especially if the music is
Verdian in style. How long is it likely to be before it reaches the
stage?

Ann

--- In , "natusm
<nvenice2@a...>" <nvenice2@a...> wrote:
> Sorry, Laura. Rose Maidens sounded to me very much like the Flower
> Maidens in Parsifal.
>
> Traviata is actually unlike most of Verdi's operas in that it's
quite
> unpolitical. Which is why, great as it is, I'm less interested in
> it. Give me I Vespri Siciliani, Un Ballo in Maschera, or Don Carlo
> any day. I guess that's why I'm writing about Henry Tudor...
>
> Apologies! Terribly off-topic! Pray continue...
>
>
> --- In , Laura Blanchard
> <lblanchard@r...> wrote:
> > At 05:49 PM 2/8/03 -0000, you wrote:
> > Lovell, Stafford, Lincoln, Suffolk, and
> > >finally Margaret, surrounded by her Rose Maidens. Sounds
straight
> > >out of Parsifal! I think I imprinted on all Verdi's conspiracy
> > >scenes
> >
> > ????
> >
> > sorry, not following this. Parsifal is Wagner and I don't see the
> > connection with "Verdi conspiracy scenes," although that may be
> because I
> > just came back from a performance of Traviata, which is a little
> weak on
> > conspiracy scenes.
> > The ending of Traviata is a bit like the ending of Shakespeare's
> Richard
> > III for me -- I know exactly how it's going to end, but every
time
> I hope
> > the outcome will be different.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Laura Blanchard
> > lblancha@p... (Philadelphia Area Consortium of Special
> > Collections Libraries
> > lblanchard@r... (all other mail)
> > Home office: 215-985-1445 voice, -1446 fax
> > http://pobox.upenn.edu/~lblancha

More digging later, Nate, and I see in the bios in
Sutton/Hammond's book on R3's Coronation that John de la
Pole, Duke of Suffolkdied 1491/2, buried at Wingfield.
He was Steward at E4's Coronation and carried the sceptres at the
Coronations for Eliz Wydeville, R3, H7 and Eliz of York. Had a
(dissolved) child marriage to Margaret Beaufort. Fought for the
Yorkist side at St Albans & Towton. Accompanied E4 etc. to France
in 1475 and supplied men and weapons there.

His missus did indeed survive Bosworth - and outlived him.
She died 1503/4 (info from the same source as above).

Regards - Lorraine

< Oh, yes! Anyone know what happened to the Duke of Suffolk, John of
> Lincoln and Edmund of Suffolk's father? Was he pro-Ricardian? How
> did he deal with Henry Tudor? Did he support his sons in the
Simnel
> rising? I assume his wife Elizabeth died before Bosworth. He's
like
> a loose thread.
>>

Wow! Thank you, Lorraine. I just had no idea what the de la Pole
parents were up to, especially under the Tudor regime. I'm quite
surprised that old Henry didn't arrest them, confiscate their estates
or worse after the Simnel rising. Fascinating!

Ann, I was actually asking if Henry Tudor, not Henry VIII, was
intended for Juana. Were they both or was Henry Tudor not even in the
mix? She was quite a character, it seems!

The libretto is going well and I expect Act I to be finished soon
soon soon, though not before many more annoying questions from yours
truly. I have no composer as yet, but some theaters and opera
companies here in NYC that may be interested. But who knows? "Anna
Bolena" or "Rex" this ain't!

Thank you again!

Nate



--- In , "mrslpickering
<mrslpickering@y...>" <mrslpickering@y...> wrote:
> More digging later, Nate, and I see in the bios in
> Sutton/Hammond's book on R3's Coronation that John de la
> Pole, Duke of Suffolkdied 1491/2, buried at Wingfield.
> He was Steward at E4's Coronation and carried the sceptres at the
> Coronations for Eliz Wydeville, R3, H7 and Eliz of York. Had a
> (dissolved) child marriage to Margaret Beaufort. Fought for the
> Yorkist side at St Albans & Towton. Accompanied E4 etc. to France
> in 1475 and supplied men and weapons there.
>
> His missus did indeed survive Bosworth - and outlived him.
> She died 1503/4 (info from the same source as above).
>
> Regards - Lorraine
>
> < Oh, yes! Anyone know what happened to the Duke of Suffolk, John
of
> > Lincoln and Edmund of Suffolk's father? Was he pro-Ricardian?
How
> > did he deal with Henry Tudor? Did he support his sons in the
> Simnel
> > rising? I assume his wife Elizabeth died before Bosworth. He's
> like
> > a loose thread.
> >>

Nate

Henry VII certainly considered marrying Catherine of Aragon himself
after both were widowed (in 1502 and 1503 respectively). I'll see
what S.B. Chrimes has to say about Juana when I get home. Of course,
Juana was married to Philip of Burgundy until his death around 1507
and Henry himself died in 1509, so not much time to cook up a match.
Not impossible, since there was no concept of waiting a decent
interval in those days.

I'm interested to hear about the mechanics of writing an opera. You
have obviously set out on the libretto without a composer, but is it
always the libretto that comes first?

And what inspired you to take Henry Tudor as a subject?

Laura, I know I'm going off topic here.

Ann


--- In , "natusm
<nvenice2@a...>" <nvenice2@a...> wrote:
> Wow! Thank you, Lorraine. I just had no idea what the de la Pole
> parents were up to, especially under the Tudor regime. I'm quite
> surprised that old Henry didn't arrest them, confiscate their
estates
> or worse after the Simnel rising. Fascinating!
>
> Ann, I was actually asking if Henry Tudor, not Henry VIII, was
> intended for Juana. Were they both or was Henry Tudor not even in
the
> mix? She was quite a character, it seems!
>
> The libretto is going well and I expect Act I to be finished soon
> soon soon, though not before many more annoying questions from
yours
> truly. I have no composer as yet, but some theaters and opera
> companies here in NYC that may be interested. But who
knows? "Anna
> Bolena" or "Rex" this ain't!
>
> Thank you again!
>
> Nate
>
>
>
> --- In , "mrslpickering
> <mrslpickering@y...>" <mrslpickering@y...> wrote:
> > More digging later, Nate, and I see in the bios in
> > Sutton/Hammond's book on R3's Coronation that John de la
> > Pole, Duke of Suffolkdied 1491/2, buried at Wingfield.
> > He was Steward at E4's Coronation and carried the sceptres at the
> > Coronations for Eliz Wydeville, R3, H7 and Eliz of York. Had a
> > (dissolved) child marriage to Margaret Beaufort. Fought for the
> > Yorkist side at St Albans & Towton. Accompanied E4 etc. to France
> > in 1475 and supplied men and weapons there.
> >
> > His missus did indeed survive Bosworth - and outlived him.
> > She died 1503/4 (info from the same source as above).
> >
> > Regards - Lorraine
> >
> > < Oh, yes! Anyone know what happened to the Duke of Suffolk,
John
> of
> > > Lincoln and Edmund of Suffolk's father? Was he pro-Ricardian?
> How
> > > did he deal with Henry Tudor? Did he support his sons in the
> > Simnel
> > > rising? I assume his wife Elizabeth died before Bosworth.
He's
> > like
> > > a loose thread.
> > >>

Hi Nate

Yes, it is rather fascinating what accomodations these people came to.
Lincoln even spent some time at H7's Court as a member of the
Council, which might seem a bit unbelievable to some of our Ricardian
colleagues, who see things in black and white terms. After all,
there was always the option of pleading sickness or estate management
problems to avoid Court if you really wanted to - many nobles did
this in 'tricky' situations (cf. Thos. Stanley in 1485, or Archbishop
Bourchier, perhaps, in 1483).

Then there's some, like Lincoln, that just carried on as usual.
Bishop Alcock is a good example here. Tutor to young E5 he served
under R3, accompanied him on progress (after an apparently very brief
arrest at the time of the Stony Stratford coup), and even accepted
the Chancellorship in the summer of 1485 after Russell was 'retired'
from that office.

There are many reasons why this should have happened. I'd like to
think that even in those days I wouldn't have gone anywhere near
anyone I disapproved of morally, like I needn't nowadays, however,
the main difference is nowadays I'm not dependent on anyone else and
can (thankfully) pick and choose my company and clients.

This is why I sympathise with Elizabeth Wydeville and can understand
a little as to WHY she made her accommodations with Richard. She may
have known her younger boys were alive during his reign (as I believe
they were), but the bottom line is Richard HAD been part of the
decision-making cabal that had executed her brother and another son.

However, the really tricky accommodation for me is the one Cecily
Neville made with the Tudor regime.

Richard's mum may have been a virtual recluse at Berkhampstead by
then and no doubt was pious and forgiving, but did she really HAVE to
leave items for H7 and a prayer book for Margaret Beaufort in her
Will??????? (it survives in the PRO in London, IIRC).

Now I confess THAT really does stick in my craw. Blimey, the man
killed her last remaining son AND killed off her family's direct hold
on the throne! I know they were strange times, but there's stoic and
then there's just plain inexpicable, if not downright inexusable... :(

And just in case this info hasn't sunk in yet, these weren't the
conventional requests for prayers and exhortations
to administer the will's bequests as executors or mediators, such as
that asked of Richard by Rivers in *his* Will, or asked of the
Stanleys in Catesby's Will, these items were *personal* objects
(Tudor was given gold cups, for instance, IIRC) given as GIFTS by
Cecily to these two people.

yep, they didn't even need to TAKE them like they took Richard's
things from his tent at Bosworth, where Margaret ending up with such
a personal thing as his prayer book/Book of Hours post-Bosworth
(thought to be spoils of war, just as the Stanley tent hangings that
were still adorning the Stanley family home 200 yrs later), which was
later bequeathed to Eliz Scrope.

Weird how folks react when push comes to shove, ain't it?

Regards - Lorraine



--- In , "natusm
<nvenice2@a...>" <nvenice2@a...> wrote:
> Wow! Thank you, Lorraine. I just had no idea what the de la Pole
> parents were up to, especially under the Tudor regime. I'm quite
> surprised that old Henry didn't arrest them, confiscate their
estates
> or worse after the Simnel rising. Fascinating!
>
> Ann, I was actually asking if Henry Tudor, not Henry VIII, was
> intended for Juana. Were they both or was Henry Tudor not even in
the
> mix? She was quite a character, it seems!
>
> The libretto is going well and I expect Act I to be finished soon
> soon soon, though not before many more annoying questions from
yours
> truly. I have no composer as yet, but some theaters and opera
> companies here in NYC that may be interested. But who
knows? "Anna
> Bolena" or "Rex" this ain't!
>
> Thank you again!
>
> Nate
>
>
>
> --- In , "mrslpickering
> <mrslpickering@y...>" <mrslpickering@y...> wrote:
> > More digging later, Nate, and I see in the bios in
> > Sutton/Hammond's book on R3's Coronation that John de la
> > Pole, Duke of Suffolkdied 1491/2, buried at Wingfield.
> > He was Steward at E4's Coronation and carried the sceptres at the
> > Coronations for Eliz Wydeville, R3, H7 and Eliz of York. Had a
> > (dissolved) child marriage to Margaret Beaufort. Fought for the
> > Yorkist side at St Albans & Towton. Accompanied E4 etc. to France
> > in 1475 and supplied men and weapons there.
> >
> > His missus did indeed survive Bosworth - and outlived him.
> > She died 1503/4 (info from the same source as above).
> >
> > Regards - Lorraine
> >
> > < Oh, yes! Anyone know what happened to the Duke of Suffolk,
John
> of
> > > Lincoln and Edmund of Suffolk's father? Was he pro-Ricardian?
> How
> > > did he deal with Henry Tudor? Did he support his sons in the
> > Simnel
> > > rising? I assume his wife Elizabeth died before Bosworth.
He's
> > like
> > > a loose thread.
> > >>

Dear Ann,

Actually, I'm a theater/opera director and I was involved in three
separate productions of Richard III in and post-college. After
seeing a blond, bluff, heroic (but boring) Richmond (Henry Tudor) in
a performance with Stacy Keach, I went at the same character from a
different way for the production I co-directed. I suggested he be
cool, more calculating, and in fact we had Richmond send in assassins
to finish Richard off (I was younger then...) The more research I
did about the era in general, the more fascinated I became with the
colorless Henry. I got so wrapped up in Henry that I began seeing
him as the perfect anti-hero rather than Richard. Today, the
play "Richard III" hardly interests me at all; I find the reality
infinitely more attractive. This is not to say that I don't take
some liberties with the libretto, but I don't eulogize Richard and I
don't demonize Henry.

However, to be true to the content means that the humor is very
ironic, sarcastic and cutting. Even his love duet with Elizabeth
where he woos her is not free from the taint of his calculation (he
*needs* her!) But I'm hoping I can leaven the heavier scenes with
lighter fare, including stage time for the women in a male-dominated
world.

As for which comes first, I think with Hammerstein and Gilbert the
libretto came first and they went from there. I follow Hammerstein's
example in creating really awful music to hang my words on. But I'm
sure other famous composers start with music first. I expect that my
job would be a lot easier with a talented and knowlegeable
collaborator.

Sorry to inundate you with all this. How self-indulgent of me! But
it does get me working....

Nate

>
> I'm interested to hear about the mechanics of writing an opera. You
> have obviously set out on the libretto without a composer, but is
it
> always the libretto that comes first?
>
> And what inspired you to take Henry Tudor as a subject?
>
> Laura, I know I'm going off topic here.
>
> Ann
>
>

Nate

Not self-indulgent at all.

I agree with you entirely that Henry Tudor was a thoroughly
calculating individual, and, no, I can't imagine him becoming
sufficiently fond of anybody for the calculation to be put aside.
Lots of room for irony there.

Ann


--- In , "natusm
<nvenice2@a...>" <nvenice2@a...> wrote:
> Dear Ann,
>
> Actually, I'm a theater/opera director and I was involved in three
> separate productions of Richard III in and post-college. After
> seeing a blond, bluff, heroic (but boring) Richmond (Henry Tudor)
in
> a performance with Stacy Keach, I went at the same character from a
> different way for the production I co-directed. I suggested he be
> cool, more calculating, and in fact we had Richmond send in
assassins
> to finish Richard off (I was younger then...) The more research I
> did about the era in general, the more fascinated I became with the
> colorless Henry. I got so wrapped up in Henry that I began seeing
> him as the perfect anti-hero rather than Richard. Today, the
> play "Richard III" hardly interests me at all; I find the reality
> infinitely more attractive. This is not to say that I don't take
> some liberties with the libretto, but I don't eulogize Richard and
I
> don't demonize Henry.
>
> However, to be true to the content means that the humor is very
> ironic, sarcastic and cutting. Even his love duet with Elizabeth
> where he woos her is not free from the taint of his calculation (he
> *needs* her!) But I'm hoping I can leaven the heavier scenes with
> lighter fare, including stage time for the women in a male-
dominated
> world.
>
> As for which comes first, I think with Hammerstein and Gilbert the
> libretto came first and they went from there. I follow
Hammerstein's
> example in creating really awful music to hang my words on. But
I'm
> sure other famous composers start with music first. I expect that
my
> job would be a lot easier with a talented and knowlegeable
> collaborator.
>
> Sorry to inundate you with all this. How self-indulgent of me!
But
> it does get me working....
>
> Nate
>
> >
> > I'm interested to hear about the mechanics of writing an opera.
You
> > have obviously set out on the libretto without a composer, but is
> it
> > always the libretto that comes first?
> >
> > And what inspired you to take Henry Tudor as a subject?
> >
> > Laura, I know I'm going off topic here.
> >
> > Ann
> >
> >