Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 01:54:33
Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and rites:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
Carol (T)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
Carol (T)
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 02:15:09
I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
(whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
Karen
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
rites:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
Carol (T)
(whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
Karen
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
rites:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
Carol (T)
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 03:16:48
Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
--- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>
> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>
> Karen
>
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> To: <>
> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> rites:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>
> Carol (T)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
--- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>
> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>
> Karen
>
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> To: <>
> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> rites:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>
> Carol (T)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 03:55:05
So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.
With my Wellies ready & waiting,
Judy
My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
--- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>
> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>
> Karen
>
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> To: <>
> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> rites:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>
> Carol (T)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
With my Wellies ready & waiting,
Judy
My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
--- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>
> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>
> Karen
>
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> To: <>
> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> rites:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>
> Carol (T)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 10:02:40
You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
(and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
There are several petitions going at the central government website -
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
York.)
It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
the Royal Household.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
>> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
>> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
>> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
>> Reply-To: <>
>> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
>> To: <>
>> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
>> burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
>> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
>> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
>> rites:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>>
>> Carol (T)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
Best wishes
Christine
Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
(and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
There are several petitions going at the central government website -
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
York.)
It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
the Royal Household.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
>> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
>> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
>> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
>> Reply-To: <>
>> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
>> To: <>
>> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
>> burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
>> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
>> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
>> rites:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>>
>> Carol (T)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
Best wishes
Christine
Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 10:33:30
When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Christine Headley
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
(and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
There are several petitions going at the central government website -
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
York.)
It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
the Royal Household.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
>> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
>> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
>> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
>> Reply-To: <>
>> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
>> To: <>
>> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
>> burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
>> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
>> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
>> rites:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>>
>> Carol (T)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
Best wishes
Christine
Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Christine Headley
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
(and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
There are several petitions going at the central government website -
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
York.)
It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
the Royal Household.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
>> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
>> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
>> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
>> Reply-To: <>
>> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
>> To: <>
>> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
>> burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
>> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
>> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
>> rites:
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>>
>> Carol (T)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
Best wishes
Christine
Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 12:49:39
My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christine Headley
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> York.)
>
> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> the Royal Household.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> > Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
> >
> > I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
> >
> > In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
> >
> > --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> >> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> >> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> >> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >>
> >> Karen
> >>
> >> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> >> Reply-To: <>
> >> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> >> To: <>
> >> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> >> burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> >> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> >> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> >> rites:
> >>
> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >>
> >> Carol (T)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christine Headley
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> York.)
>
> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> the Royal Household.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> > Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
> >
> > I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
> >
> > In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
> >
> > --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> >> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> >> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> >> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >>
> >> Karen
> >>
> >> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> >> Reply-To: <>
> >> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> >> To: <>
> >> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> >> burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> >> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> >> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> >> rites:
> >>
> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >>
> >> Carol (T)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 12:56:30
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.Â
>
> With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> Judy
>
> My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.Â
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > rites:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.Â
>
> With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> Judy
>
> My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.Â
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > rites:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 13:00:19
Judy...your message has made my eyes sting with tears.....
That statue is beautiful and moving and it is on the back of my copy of Good King Richard by Jeremy Potter...and most fitting too...
Eileen
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.Â
>
> With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> Judy
>
> My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.Â
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > rites:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
That statue is beautiful and moving and it is on the back of my copy of Good King Richard by Jeremy Potter...and most fitting too...
Eileen
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.Â
>
> With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> Judy
>
> My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.Â
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > rites:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 13:06:27
Thanks for that link Carol...as you say...a dignified and calm interview....eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and rites:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>
> Carol (T)
>
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and rites:
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
>
> Carol (T)
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 14:01:27
Eileen, I recall that day so vividly. My good friend Joy and I also caught the bus out to Bosworth, that afternoon. The whole trip was wonderful. (While in London, I "talked" my way into the British Library. I got to see, up close, that page with the signatures of Richard, Buckingham, and young Edward. Speaking of "little hairs standing up," I was electrified. What doesn't show well in most photos are the delicate bracketing alongside the sigs and mottoes. And Richard's signature was, well, beautiful....)
We couldn't make the trip to the UK in time for the statue's installation, due to work commitments, so we were alone in the gardens (well, as I said, it was raining, also - only the hardcore devotees would stand in the rain; afterwards we had tea in a little shoppe nearby and talked). We gazed up at "his" face and I, too, was weeping. It's a wonder I held the camera straight.
My husband and I were back in the UK in 1983. Haven't been back, since. I hope to meet many of my Forum friends on this upcoming trip. Annette Carson has my personal Email; Annette, I release you to give it to those who want it.... :-)
I feel almost on a "natural high" these days
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Judy...your message has made my eyes sting with tears.....
That statue is beautiful and moving and it is on the back of my copy of Good King Richard by Jeremy Potter...and most fitting too...
Eileen
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.Â
>
> With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> Judy
>
> My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.Â
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > rites:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
We couldn't make the trip to the UK in time for the statue's installation, due to work commitments, so we were alone in the gardens (well, as I said, it was raining, also - only the hardcore devotees would stand in the rain; afterwards we had tea in a little shoppe nearby and talked). We gazed up at "his" face and I, too, was weeping. It's a wonder I held the camera straight.
My husband and I were back in the UK in 1983. Haven't been back, since. I hope to meet many of my Forum friends on this upcoming trip. Annette Carson has my personal Email; Annette, I release you to give it to those who want it.... :-)
I feel almost on a "natural high" these days
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Judy...your message has made my eyes sting with tears.....
That statue is beautiful and moving and it is on the back of my copy of Good King Richard by Jeremy Potter...and most fitting too...
Eileen
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.Â
>
> With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> Judy
>
> My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.Â
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
>
> I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
>
> In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
>
> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > rites:
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 14:19:04
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To:
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 14:38:34
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
--- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
--- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 14:47:51
A lovely day for you and Joy....
Those signatures....What other reason could there be than that the three of them were engaged in some 'doodling'....Edward must have been fairly relaxed at that point which under the circumstances is a fair sign that Richard was working hard to make him feel safe and calm.
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen, I recall that day so vividly. My good friend Joy and I also caught the bus out to Bosworth, that afternoon. The whole trip was wonderful. (While in London, I "talked" my way into the British Library. I got to see, up close, that page with the signatures of Richard, Buckingham, and young Edward. Speaking of "little hairs standing up," I was electrified. What doesn't show well in most photos are the delicate bracketing alongside the sigs and mottoes. And Richard's signature was, well, beautiful....)
>
> We couldn't make the trip to the UK in time for the statue's installation, due to work commitments, so we were alone in the gardens (well, as I said, it was raining, also - only the hardcore devotees would stand in the rain; afterwards we had tea in a little shoppe nearby and talked). We gazed up at "his" face and I, too, was weeping. It's a wonder I held the camera straight.
Sometimes it is a lot nicer to be alone in circumstances like that....especially if your going to turn the old waterworks on...:0)
>
> My husband and I were back in the UK in 1983. Haven't been back, since. I hope to meet many of my Forum friends on this upcoming trip. Annette Carson has my personal Email; Annette, I release you to give it to those who want it.... :-)
>
> I feel almost on a "natural high" these days
Yes...for a few days after the discovery..it was the first thought in my head on waking up...I should imagine its a similar feeling to winning the Lottery...Eileen
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy...your message has made my eyes sting with tears.....
>
> That statue is beautiful and moving and it is on the back of my copy of Good King Richard by Jeremy Potter...and most fitting too...
>
> Eileen
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.ÂÂ
> >
> > With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> > Judy
> >
> > My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
> >
> > I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
> >
> > In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
> >
> > --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > > Reply-To: <>
> > > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > > To: <>
> > > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > > burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > > rites:
> > >
> > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> > >
> > > Carol (T)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Those signatures....What other reason could there be than that the three of them were engaged in some 'doodling'....Edward must have been fairly relaxed at that point which under the circumstances is a fair sign that Richard was working hard to make him feel safe and calm.
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen, I recall that day so vividly. My good friend Joy and I also caught the bus out to Bosworth, that afternoon. The whole trip was wonderful. (While in London, I "talked" my way into the British Library. I got to see, up close, that page with the signatures of Richard, Buckingham, and young Edward. Speaking of "little hairs standing up," I was electrified. What doesn't show well in most photos are the delicate bracketing alongside the sigs and mottoes. And Richard's signature was, well, beautiful....)
>
> We couldn't make the trip to the UK in time for the statue's installation, due to work commitments, so we were alone in the gardens (well, as I said, it was raining, also - only the hardcore devotees would stand in the rain; afterwards we had tea in a little shoppe nearby and talked). We gazed up at "his" face and I, too, was weeping. It's a wonder I held the camera straight.
Sometimes it is a lot nicer to be alone in circumstances like that....especially if your going to turn the old waterworks on...:0)
>
> My husband and I were back in the UK in 1983. Haven't been back, since. I hope to meet many of my Forum friends on this upcoming trip. Annette Carson has my personal Email; Annette, I release you to give it to those who want it.... :-)
>
> I feel almost on a "natural high" these days
Yes...for a few days after the discovery..it was the first thought in my head on waking up...I should imagine its a similar feeling to winning the Lottery...Eileen
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy...your message has made my eyes sting with tears.....
>
> That statue is beautiful and moving and it is on the back of my copy of Good King Richard by Jeremy Potter...and most fitting too...
>
> Eileen
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > So beautifully said, McJohn, and my heartfelt thanks. We've been laughed at, patronized, and put up with for decades - more than half my life, in my case - and it's now my goal to get to England to share this Moment with my fellow wise-fools, even if it means standing outside a church for hours in cold, drenching rain.ÂÂ
> >
> > With my Wellies ready & waiting,
> > Judy
> >
> > My first trip to England, the Butler statue in Leicester, which we'd raised money to help fund, had just been installed. And yes, it was cold. And raining. You can see the droplets on the lens in my photo of Richard silhouetted against a grey sky.ÂÂ
> > ÂÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
> >
> > I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
> >
> > In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
> >
> > --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> > > (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> > > some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> > > of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > > Reply-To: <>
> > > Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> > > To: <>
> > > Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> > > burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> > > Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> > > mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> > > rites:
> > >
> > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> > >
> > > Carol (T)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 14:50:34
> I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings...
Surely that's just admirable tact? The last thing anyone wants is for the whole thing to become a free-for-all, and they must recognise that their voice would be not just one among many but far from the most important when it comes to arriving at any decision. And, to paraphrase the Bishop of Leicester, just as it won't be a primary concern for the new Archbishop of Canterbury, it's surely not at the top of Sentamu's list either.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:38
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
what happens...Eileen
--- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
Surely that's just admirable tact? The last thing anyone wants is for the whole thing to become a free-for-all, and they must recognise that their voice would be not just one among many but far from the most important when it comes to arriving at any decision. And, to paraphrase the Bishop of Leicester, just as it won't be a primary concern for the new Archbishop of Canterbury, it's surely not at the top of Sentamu's list either.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:38
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
what happens...Eileen
--- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:08:52
Your probably right Jonathon....I don't really know what I expect...Just a small acknowledgement that Richard has been found maybe...Surely there is happy medium from the situation becoming a scrum to taking the steps of releasing a few words on the matter. I think I'm probably miffed about the lack of any mention/memorial to Richard in the Minster. Its seems rather cold. But that is just me...take no notice :0)
By the way I found the same think (lack of mention) in Wells Cathedral regarding Bishop Stillington..There was a board up with all the bishops names on commencing from the year dot and a gap where Stillington's name should have been. .It seems if you die out of favour you are completely whitewashed from the history of the place...Eileen
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> > I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings...
>
> Surely that's just admirable tact? The last thing anyone wants is for the whole thing to become a free-for-all, and they must recognise that their voice would be not just one among many but far from the most important when it comes to arriving at any decision. And, to paraphrase the Bishop of Leicester, just as it won't be a primary concern for the new Archbishop of Canterbury, it's surely not at the top of Sentamu's list either.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:38
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
> what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
By the way I found the same think (lack of mention) in Wells Cathedral regarding Bishop Stillington..There was a board up with all the bishops names on commencing from the year dot and a gap where Stillington's name should have been. .It seems if you die out of favour you are completely whitewashed from the history of the place...Eileen
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> > I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings...
>
> Surely that's just admirable tact? The last thing anyone wants is for the whole thing to become a free-for-all, and they must recognise that their voice would be not just one among many but far from the most important when it comes to arriving at any decision. And, to paraphrase the Bishop of Leicester, just as it won't be a primary concern for the new Archbishop of Canterbury, it's surely not at the top of Sentamu's list either.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:38
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
> what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:15:42
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:25:17
I must really stand corrected here as I have to admit I did not know there was such a window in the Minster....I last visited about 15 years ago...I am annoyed with myself missing it as I am always on the lookout for anything connected to Richard or his family and friends ... I would have loved to have seen it....
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:27:44
York Minster has misplaced a couple of Archbishops, including Archbishop
Nevill. Seems rather carelessŠ
Karen
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:08:50 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
Your probably right Jonathon....I don't really know what I expect...Just a
small acknowledgement that Richard has been found maybe...Surely there is
happy medium from the situation becoming a scrum to taking the steps of
releasing a few words on the matter. I think I'm probably miffed about the
lack of any mention/memorial to Richard in the Minster. Its seems rather
cold. But that is just me...take no notice :0)
By the way I found the same think (lack of mention) in Wells Cathedral
regarding Bishop Stillington..There was a board up with all the bishops
names on commencing from the year dot and a gap where Stillington's name
should have been. .It seems if you die out of favour you are completely
whitewashed from the history of the place...Eileen
--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Jonathan Evans
<jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> > I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings...
>
> Surely that's just admirable tact? The last thing anyone wants is for the
whole thing to become a free-for-all, and they must recognise that their voice
would be not just one among many but far from the most important when it comes
to arriving at any decision. And, to paraphrase the Bishop of Leicester, just
as it won't be a primary concern for the new Archbishop of Canterbury, it's
surely not at the top of Sentamu's list either.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:38
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council
taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the
search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines
of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York
Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you
consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest
at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the
possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the
Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a
place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who
would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in
it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times
anyway...It will be interesting to see
> what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Christine Headley
<christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of
good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any
respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him.
There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think
that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is
Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig
to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not
even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help
exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on
the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial
to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue
of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word
"might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Annette Carson" <email@>
wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember
Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to
the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is
remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey
where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all
those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed
for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands
of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Nevill. Seems rather carelessŠ
Karen
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:08:50 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
Your probably right Jonathon....I don't really know what I expect...Just a
small acknowledgement that Richard has been found maybe...Surely there is
happy medium from the situation becoming a scrum to taking the steps of
releasing a few words on the matter. I think I'm probably miffed about the
lack of any mention/memorial to Richard in the Minster. Its seems rather
cold. But that is just me...take no notice :0)
By the way I found the same think (lack of mention) in Wells Cathedral
regarding Bishop Stillington..There was a board up with all the bishops
names on commencing from the year dot and a gap where Stillington's name
should have been. .It seems if you die out of favour you are completely
whitewashed from the history of the place...Eileen
--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Jonathan Evans
<jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> > I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings...
>
> Surely that's just admirable tact? The last thing anyone wants is for the
whole thing to become a free-for-all, and they must recognise that their voice
would be not just one among many but far from the most important when it comes
to arriving at any decision. And, to paraphrase the Bishop of Leicester, just
as it won't be a primary concern for the new Archbishop of Canterbury, it's
surely not at the top of Sentamu's list either.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:38
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council
taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the
search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines
of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York
Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you
consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest
at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the
possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the
Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a
place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who
would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in
it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times
anyway...It will be interesting to see
> what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Christine Headley
<christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of
good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any
respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him.
There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think
that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is
Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig
to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not
even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help
exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on
the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial
to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue
of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word
"might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Annette Carson" <email@>
wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember
Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to
the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is
remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey
where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all
those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed
for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands
of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:29:37
I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
--- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
--- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:32:58
Hi,
I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
best
Marion Z
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
best
Marion Z
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:39:57
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:46:12
I don't think you've caused offence. It's just idle talk - from all of us. :-)
Jonathan
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 15:39
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I
imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to
see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jonathan
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 15:39
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I
imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to
see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:46:37
Christine,
The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
________________________________
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
________________________________
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 15:50:19
Well, the best were if Richard himself had left any clue as where he wished to be laid to rest.
However I feel very evenly about the various options. Be assured I won´t join the competition, I don´t want him here in Germany...our town could do with some living specimen.
best
Marion Z
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
However I feel very evenly about the various options. Be assured I won´t join the competition, I don´t want him here in Germany...our town could do with some living specimen.
best
Marion Z
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 16:10:53
I think the tussle has been engendered outside of this forum, probably by people who don't know what went into the process of finding him. Now we've got petitions, we've got an MP chiming in, and we've got the media sniffing out what they hope will be a public fight. They'll just love it if it involves the villainous king, the church and the royal family! It could get very divisive, and it just seems to me that we of all people could perhaps agree to handle our differences with a light touch.
Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 16:22:02
Annette...I thought that was what I was doing.......? I would rather leave the forum than get into any arguments with anyone...I did find your comment, "....then we can all remain friends"..both unnecessary and puzzling..and to be quite honest I was rather hurt by it.
I can be counted in amongst the most staunchest of Richard's following and the last thing I would want to be is to appear disrespectful....I am aghast that that could be read in any of my messages...Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think the tussle has been engendered outside of this forum, probably by people who don't know what went into the process of finding him. Now we've got petitions, we've got an MP chiming in, and we've got the media sniffing out what they hope will be a public fight. They'll just love it if it involves the villainous king, the church and the royal family! It could get very divisive, and it just seems to me that we of all people could perhaps agree to handle our differences with a light touch.
> Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
>
> --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: EileenB
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> > I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > > Eileen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > > >> Regards, Annette
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > > >> To:
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > > >>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > > >> York.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > > >> the Royal Household.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> Christine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I can be counted in amongst the most staunchest of Richard's following and the last thing I would want to be is to appear disrespectful....I am aghast that that could be read in any of my messages...Eileen
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think the tussle has been engendered outside of this forum, probably by people who don't know what went into the process of finding him. Now we've got petitions, we've got an MP chiming in, and we've got the media sniffing out what they hope will be a public fight. They'll just love it if it involves the villainous king, the church and the royal family! It could get very divisive, and it just seems to me that we of all people could perhaps agree to handle our differences with a light touch.
> Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
>
> --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: EileenB
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> >
> > I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see what happens...Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > > Eileen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > > >> Regards, Annette
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > > >> To:
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > > >>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > > >> York.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > > >> the Royal Household.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> Christine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 16:32:26
Annette,
With all due respect for the good work done by Philippa Langley and the archaelogists, Richard III belongs to the world, not just the society. I mean no disrespect here, but people do have opinions, and surely they have the right to voice their views. Many people donated for the work done and credit can surely be given to all Ricardians. What I am finding is the elitist attitude which is certainly something Richard never did in his time.
Eileen, for the record, I do not find your comments rude but knowledgeable and fair minded.
________________________________
From: Annette Carson <email@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I think the tussle has been engendered outside of this forum, probably by people who don't know what went into the process of finding him. Now we've got petitions, we've got an MP chiming in, and we've got the media sniffing out what they hope will be a public fight. They'll just love it if it involves the villainous king, the church and the royal family! It could get very divisive, and it just seems to me that we of all people could perhaps agree to handle our differences with a light touch.
Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I
imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means
he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
With all due respect for the good work done by Philippa Langley and the archaelogists, Richard III belongs to the world, not just the society. I mean no disrespect here, but people do have opinions, and surely they have the right to voice their views. Many people donated for the work done and credit can surely be given to all Ricardians. What I am finding is the elitist attitude which is certainly something Richard never did in his time.
Eileen, for the record, I do not find your comments rude but knowledgeable and fair minded.
________________________________
From: Annette Carson <email@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I think the tussle has been engendered outside of this forum, probably by people who don't know what went into the process of finding him. Now we've got petitions, we've got an MP chiming in, and we've got the media sniffing out what they hope will be a public fight. They'll just love it if it involves the villainous king, the church and the royal family! It could get very divisive, and it just seems to me that we of all people could perhaps agree to handle our differences with a light touch.
Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Well I apologise if I have caused offence..If I have done so it was not intentional .. .and course I am not in the position to know all the detail/discussion that has gone on behind the scenes.....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I
imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
what happens...Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Christine Headley <christinelheadley@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means
he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 16:58:10
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
[snip]
I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
Serendipity. This is just the right time for planting bare-root rose bushes. Portland is famous as the City of Roses, with the Rose Test Garden a major attraction. Several reknowned rose nurseries are in the nearby countryside.
I'm off to find an heirloom white Yorkist rose
http://www.heirloomroses.com/roses/old-garden-roses.html
to grace my flowerbed in honor of Richard.
Katy
[snip]
I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
Serendipity. This is just the right time for planting bare-root rose bushes. Portland is famous as the City of Roses, with the Rose Test Garden a major attraction. Several reknowned rose nurseries are in the nearby countryside.
I'm off to find an heirloom white Yorkist rose
http://www.heirloomroses.com/roses/old-garden-roses.html
to grace my flowerbed in honor of Richard.
Katy
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:16:45
Annette wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
Carol responds:
Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
Carol responds:
Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:24:42
I think I should have written "officially remembered". Anyway the inscription on the urn is in Latin, so it could be worse!
I was sorry to hear that Bishop Stillington has been written out of history in his own diocese - I didn't know that.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: justcarol67
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Annette wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
Carol responds:
Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
I was sorry to hear that Bishop Stillington has been written out of history in his own diocese - I didn't know that.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: justcarol67
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Annette wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
Carol responds:
Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:35:10
Hello, Thank you I do know that it was initiated by Dorothy Mitchell,s group as I am also a member of that group as well as of Richard 111 Society.
it was not my intention to cause any offense to anyone.
Regards
Christine
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 15:46
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Christine,
The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
________________________________
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that
city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
it was not my intention to cause any offense to anyone.
Regards
Christine
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 15:46
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Christine,
The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
________________________________
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that
city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:46:58
Annette wrote:
>
> I think I should have written "officially remembered". Anyway the inscription on the urn is in Latin, so it could be worse! <snip>
Carol responds:
Oh! I thought you meant that Richard was actually denigrated during religious services, which seemed scandalous and inappropriate. I should have realized that you meant the urn--which is overdue for removal and examination of its contents, hopefully by unbiased scientists aware that More's version of events is fanciful speculation with no bearing whatever on the fate of the "princes" or the identity of the bones. Has the team working on the Leicester skeletons said anything about those other bones? And is anyone working on the female skeleton to see what information can be discovered about her?
Carol
>
> I think I should have written "officially remembered". Anyway the inscription on the urn is in Latin, so it could be worse! <snip>
Carol responds:
Oh! I thought you meant that Richard was actually denigrated during religious services, which seemed scandalous and inappropriate. I should have realized that you meant the urn--which is overdue for removal and examination of its contents, hopefully by unbiased scientists aware that More's version of events is fanciful speculation with no bearing whatever on the fate of the "princes" or the identity of the bones. Has the team working on the Leicester skeletons said anything about those other bones? And is anyone working on the female skeleton to see what information can be discovered about her?
Carol
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:50:16
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>
> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>
> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>
>
>
>Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>
> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>
> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:51:45
Doh...the first part of my message did not show...here it is...Eileen
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
>
>> >Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >
> > Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >
> > Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >
>
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
>
>> >Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >
> > Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >
> > Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 17:55:23
Oh dear...my message looks like Carol wrote it...sorry Carol :0/
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >
> > Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >
> > Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >
>
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >
> > Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >
> > Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 18:06:01
I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Christine,
The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
________________________________
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Christine,
The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
________________________________
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
put up a memorial in York Minster?
There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
Best wishes
Christine
On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
means he has never been forgotten there.
> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> Eileen
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>> Regards, Annette
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Christine Headley
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>
>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>> York.)
>>
>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>> the Royal Household.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Christine
>>
>>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 18:29:17
Has the team working on the Leicester skeletons said anything about those
other bones? And is anyone working on the female skeleton to see what
information can be discovered about her?
Carol
While we were queuing to get into the dig on the 22nd September, the lady
who was keeping us up to date with how long we would be ( who said she was
the head of the curators at Leicester Museum, if I remember correctly), and
answering questions as we waited, said that the female bones were believed
to be those of the foundress of the friary. There has to be a good reason
to have an exhumation order, and some other bones they found were left in
situ from what she said, so presumably they must have some relevant info. As
it was a Greyfriars friary - I would assume the female would have to have
been a benefactress perhaps, who contributed to the founding - I don't know
enough about the history of the place, other than that involved with
Richard.
Karen
other bones? And is anyone working on the female skeleton to see what
information can be discovered about her?
Carol
While we were queuing to get into the dig on the 22nd September, the lady
who was keeping us up to date with how long we would be ( who said she was
the head of the curators at Leicester Museum, if I remember correctly), and
answering questions as we waited, said that the female bones were believed
to be those of the foundress of the friary. There has to be a good reason
to have an exhumation order, and some other bones they found were left in
situ from what she said, so presumably they must have some relevant info. As
it was a Greyfriars friary - I would assume the female would have to have
been a benefactress perhaps, who contributed to the founding - I don't know
enough about the history of the place, other than that involved with
Richard.
Karen
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 18:40:50
Eileen wrote:
>
> Oh dear...my message looks like Carol wrote it...sorry Carol :0/
Carol responds:
No problem, Eileen. But that's why I always label my responses and the posts I'm responding to. Theoretically, everyone can follow the thread that way.
Carol
>
> Oh dear...my message looks like Carol wrote it...sorry Carol :0/
Carol responds:
No problem, Eileen. But that's why I always label my responses and the posts I'm responding to. Theoretically, everyone can follow the thread that way.
Carol
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 18:56:16
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 18:58:58
I was allowed free rein as we were filming the quincentenary celebrations there. Trouble was when I first climbed to the top of the tower I had a dreadful hangover from the night before!! View is fantastic though, even with a fuggy mind!
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 18:05, Judy Thomson wrote:
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
>> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>> Eileen
>>
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>>> Regards, Annette
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Christine Headley
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>>
>>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>>> York.)
>>>
>>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>>> the Royal Household.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Christine
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 18:05, Judy Thomson wrote:
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>> My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
>> Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>> Eileen
>>
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>>> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>>> Regards, Annette
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Christine Headley
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>>> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>>> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>>> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>>> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>>>
>>> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>>> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>>> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>>> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>>> York.)
>>>
>>> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>>> the Royal Household.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Christine
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 19:21:44
Paul..yes....Jesus did indeed get cross about this sort of thing....
Absolutely agree with you re donations...which as I have already said they do at Wells...You are given an envelope...
As it stands now people who really cannot afford these amounts cannot visit...which I think is diabolical. Of course there are concessions for children and over 6os...(If I recall £12 as opposed to £16);.but that really is the thin end of the wedge.
That is a good idea to go in when there is a service...of course not a Royal wedding as you could end up arrested:0) Knowing my luck I would probably end up getting locked in for the night. But seriously...that is a good idea.
Eileen
--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
Absolutely agree with you re donations...which as I have already said they do at Wells...You are given an envelope...
As it stands now people who really cannot afford these amounts cannot visit...which I think is diabolical. Of course there are concessions for children and over 6os...(If I recall £12 as opposed to £16);.but that really is the thin end of the wedge.
That is a good idea to go in when there is a service...of course not a Royal wedding as you could end up arrested:0) Knowing my luck I would probably end up getting locked in for the night. But seriously...that is a good idea.
Eileen
--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 20:15:51
Well said, Paul. It's worse than ironic.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in
the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in
the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 20:18:13
I couldn't agree more about Leicester. They have a road named after him and a school! How cool is that - I wish I had Richard III School on my CV instead of Stafford Girls' High (no matter how great a school it was).
Liz
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 12:49
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he
has never been forgotten there.
Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christine Headley
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> York.)
>
> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> the Royal Household.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> > Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
> >
> > I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
> >
> > In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> >> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> >> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> >> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >>
> >> Karen
> >>
> >> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> >> Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> >> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> >> burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> >> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> >> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> >> rites:
> >>
> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >>
> >> Carol (T)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Liz
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 12:49
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means he
has never been forgotten there.
Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Christine Headley
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
>
>
> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> York.)
>
> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> the Royal Household.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 03:16, mcjohn_wt_net wrote:
> > Pray permit me, as a lifetime resident of a country where being advertised at without cease is the only universal experience, to predict that, should the DNA tests be conclusive, the mudbrawl over the last resting place of the Grey Friars warrior has not yet begun. Those who proclaimed Richard III a vile and indefensible monster up until the very moment of the announcement of the results of the dig will be the first in line to counsel reverence, continuing scholarship, and reinterment in their own chosen venues, with plenty of opportunities for revenue maximization along the way. If the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, his burial place will never, ever, ever be without a nearby kiosk selling tickets and souvenirs.
> >
> > I have a deep respect and admiration for those who appreciated Richard III and battled for the rehabilitation of his reputation before it could possibly have made them one thin dime. Y'all were here when it really made a difference, and I will never forget that. There are plenty of people who believed as fervently as we do and did not have the privilege of living to see this obscure historical disagreement become news all over the world, with the possibility of redressing an enormous disservice done to a guy who just didn't deserve all the hatred. Those of you who have spent your time on the front lines have earned every bit of your excitement and exhilaration, and in that sense, if the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III, it matters less where he's buried than that, after half a millennium, he has well and truly found his way home.
> >
> > In other words, keep the theme park, megacorporatogovernment; all you'll get out of it is money. The real riches are in the hearts of those who kept the faith, and all the money isn't enough to buy your way into that small, elite band.
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> >> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> >> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> >> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
> >>
> >> Karen
> >>
> >> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> >> Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:54:32 -0000
> >> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> Subject: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> >> burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Whether you think that Richard should be buried in Leicester, York, or
> >> Westminster, you'll enjoy this quiet, dignified interview (in which no one
> >> mentions "crimes" or "deformities") regarding Richard's burial place and
> >> rites:
> >>
> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19807027
> >>
> >> Carol (T)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 20:19:53
I can think of far worse places to be locked overnight. Indeed, that notion would make for a great piece of fiction, if handled adroitly. A bit spooky...and very informative.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Paul..yes....Jesus did indeed get cross about this sort of thing....
Absolutely agree with you re donations...which as I have already said they do at Wells...You are given an envelope...
As it stands now people who really cannot afford these amounts cannot visit...which I think is diabolical. Of course there are concessions for children and over 6os...(If I recall £12 as opposed to £16);.but that really is the thin end of the wedge.
That is a good idea to go in when there is a service...of course not a Royal wedding as you could end up arrested:0) Knowing my luck I would probably end up getting locked in for the night. But seriously...that is a good idea.
Eileen
--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be
in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Paul..yes....Jesus did indeed get cross about this sort of thing....
Absolutely agree with you re donations...which as I have already said they do at Wells...You are given an envelope...
As it stands now people who really cannot afford these amounts cannot visit...which I think is diabolical. Of course there are concessions for children and over 6os...(If I recall £12 as opposed to £16);.but that really is the thin end of the wedge.
That is a good idea to go in when there is a service...of course not a Royal wedding as you could end up arrested:0) Knowing my luck I would probably end up getting locked in for the night. But seriously...that is a good idea.
Eileen
--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
>
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be
in the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 20:24:44
Well my preference is definitely Leicester but the important thing is that he is buried in a fitting way and a fitting place. As long as it isn't Westminster Abbey that is the important thing. Much as I love the Abbey, i don't think they deserve him.
________________________________
From: Annette Carson <email@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 15:29
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I
imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
what happens...Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means
he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
________________________________
From: Annette Carson <email@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 15:29
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I think it would be a sad thing if this historic search for Richard degenerated into a tussle for who gets his remains. There are ways of approaching such matters and quietly resolving them in a dignified manner. Philippa Langley followed those routes long before the eventuality of a successful outcome presented itself. In the light of archaeological best practice a procedural document was drawn up which met with the endorsement of all parties, including the royal household. This isn't about money, by the way. Philippa raised the money for this endeavour from many sources, and relatively little of it came from the Leicester taxpayer. This has been a group effort by outstanding people in their field who have a commitment to Richard III, to heritage, to professionalism, and to the highest ideals of learning for its own sake. It has never been the stance of any donor or participant that they should have the right to determine any particular outcome. I
imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical? ... then we can all remain friends.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
I didnt actually mean that York City Council (actually the York council taxpayer)should have been expected to contribute financially towards the search..of course that would not have been fair...I was more thinking on lines of York Minster...but even then not in a financial sense even...I mean more York Minster's deafening silence on the findings and chance of reburial...When you consider the links that Richard had with the Minster they have shown no interest at all in Richard before or after the find...I would hate to think that the possible revenues that would maybe come from having King Richard reburied in the Minster would be the thing that would have them coming forward to offer such a place. But to be honest I don't know how these things would be arrived at. Who would have the final say...and would the Royal Family have some say in it....This is a one-off and there is no precedent...well not in modern times anyway...It will be interesting to see
what happens...Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which means
he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 20:38:54
Paul,
I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major - way of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
Liz
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same
financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major - way of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
Liz
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same
financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 20:52:20
Hi Liz...I wish they could do it in a fairer way, such as donations. Who know they might even raise more money like that as the majority of the visitors are tourists and in a good mood because they are on holiday. Its such a shame if people cannot visit because they would be hard pressed to afford it. I used to visit such a lot when when I was younger and seriously broke all the time. I used to nip over to Westminster Hall as well which was also free. I guess I was very lucky to have had all that close at hand. I used to take my little son with me sometimes too hoping to instil a love of history in him too....It didnt work...eileen
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same
> financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same
> financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 21:02:30
Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be found.
Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be found.
Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 21:13:46
Well they do get donations and quite sizeable ones too from very wealthy people (my brain has gone dead, one extremely wealthy family in particular - American I think) but it isn't enough. When I was working for John there was always the question of which repairs were most urgent and the other stuff has to wait. It's ridiculous to think that, Royal Peculiar or not, they can't get money from the state when so much is wasted. I often think our Governments - regardless of their political persuasion - don't really give a stuff about our heritage.
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:52
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Hi Liz...I wish they could do it in a fairer way, such as donations. Who know they might even raise more money like that as the majority of the visitors are tourists and in a good mood because they are on holiday. Its such a shame if people cannot visit because they would be hard pressed to afford it. I used to visit such a lot when when I was younger and seriously broke all the time. I used to nip over to Westminster Hall as well which was also free. I guess I was very lucky to have had all that close at hand. I used to take my little son with me sometimes too hoping to instil a love of history in him too....It didnt work...eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the
same
> financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:52
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Hi Liz...I wish they could do it in a fairer way, such as donations. Who know they might even raise more money like that as the majority of the visitors are tourists and in a good mood because they are on holiday. Its such a shame if people cannot visit because they would be hard pressed to afford it. I used to visit such a lot when when I was younger and seriously broke all the time. I used to nip over to Westminster Hall as well which was also free. I guess I was very lucky to have had all that close at hand. I used to take my little son with me sometimes too hoping to instil a love of history in him too....It didnt work...eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
> Eileen
> i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
> Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
> Paul
>
> On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the
same
> financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
> >
> > In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
> >
> > Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
> >>
> >> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
> >>
> >> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 21:20:34
The Abbey (and other "Peculiars") should, perhaps, offer something like "subscribership." Plenty of American Anglophiles, including some very wealthy patrons, would line up to make yearly donations in return for, say, a newsletter and gift shoppe discount...and maybe their family name engraved somewhere if the "gift" were substantial enough. Just a wacky thought.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Paul,
I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major - way of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
Liz
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same
financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Paul,
I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major - way of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
Liz
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 18:56
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Eileen
i think I've said before that when I feel like visiting my history in Westminster Abbey I go into a service then while they are singing away sneak into the tombs section so I don't have to pay. It is my history, my abbey, why should I pay for the pleasure of seeing it?
Asking for a donation is one thing, but demanding a toll inside a church is the sort of thing the man they call Jesus is supposed to have gotten rather angry about if I recall?
Paul
On 3 Oct 2012, at 17:50, EileenB wrote:
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in the same
financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
>
> In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
>
> Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>>
>> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>>
>> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Richard Liveth Yet!
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-03 21:33:12
Thanks for that wonderful story, Mary.
When my friend Joy and I visited, we had written ahead, everywhere we hoped to go, setting up whatever we might, well in advance. When I wrote to the Society in York, it was from Dorothy I got a reply, plus a gift of lovely Ricardian notecards. She made all the arrangements, which we insisted upon paying for upfront: a rented car and all entrance fees, etc. Another woman, Joyce, came along for part of the time; sadly, I don't recall her full name. We did so much, during those two days, it felt (in the best of ways) like a week. I too have photos of her.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
found.
Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
When my friend Joy and I visited, we had written ahead, everywhere we hoped to go, setting up whatever we might, well in advance. When I wrote to the Society in York, it was from Dorothy I got a reply, plus a gift of lovely Ricardian notecards. She made all the arrangements, which we insisted upon paying for upfront: a rented car and all entrance fees, etc. Another woman, Joyce, came along for part of the time; sadly, I don't recall her full name. We did so much, during those two days, it felt (in the best of ways) like a week. I too have photos of her.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
found.
Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 00:21:38
Well said. I visited Westminster Abbey as well as Sy Paul's Cathedral this July and was shocked at the way these places were run. These are churches, not theme parks! I also went to St Albans Cathedral which was lovely - no admission charges, you could sit quietly in the pews and contemplate life and if you had a question there is friendly assistance around. And if you feel like it, you can go to the tea room afterwards, where they serve you home-made cake at very reasonable prices. We also visited other churches, for instance Sutton Cheney and Middleham, who surely also need money for their upkeep, but you could just walk in.
As to help, when we were in Westminster Abbey and elderly man broke down possibly from the overcrowding. There was nowhere for him to sit, but on the ground. His equally elderly wife was in hysterics. Fortunately they had a son or so with them, who went to find help. After some time some staff turned up, who after more time managed to find a chair. They eventually carried him out on the chair. I would have thought that, with all the money they make from us tourists, they would have better emergency measures in place and might have a wheelchair or so for cases like this.
As to Richard's eventual resting place (if the remains are indeed his), I'm with Annette. This should not be such a squabble. I just hope they do not decide om Westminster! It's too full of any one who ever was or thought he/she is anything (may I include the Tudors in the latter?) already.
Best regards,
Dorothea
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2012 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in
the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>
> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>
> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>
As to help, when we were in Westminster Abbey and elderly man broke down possibly from the overcrowding. There was nowhere for him to sit, but on the ground. His equally elderly wife was in hysterics. Fortunately they had a son or so with them, who went to find help. After some time some staff turned up, who after more time managed to find a chair. They eventually carried him out on the chair. I would have thought that, with all the money they make from us tourists, they would have better emergency measures in place and might have a wheelchair or so for cases like this.
As to Richard's eventual resting place (if the remains are indeed his), I'm with Annette. This should not be such a squabble. I just hope they do not decide om Westminster! It's too full of any one who ever was or thought he/she is anything (may I include the Tudors in the latter?) already.
Best regards,
Dorothea
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2012 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>Because I am afraid, this will not and has not been changed because it is simply a money spinner, a crowd puller. Can I say that I found, about 5 years ago, the price of getting into my favourite abbey very expensive (£16ish)...Not everyone can find this...but the tourists can.....And on that visit, it was quite crowded around the area of the urn. I mean its pretty lurid isnt it...the bones of two little children murdered on the orders of their uncle...! I was also cross because that that time I was still living in London and I dont think Londoners should have to pay to visit Westminster Abbey. I take the view that the authorities that run the Abbey, whoever they maybe, are a tad greedy These are holy places nor Alton Towers.... At one time in my life, when I visited the Abbey more regularly, I would NEVER have been able to afford this...Is this right? I dont think so. You do not have to pay to visit Tewkesbury Abbey....and they must be in
the same financial condition as other similar places...They have a very busy shop there...which they all have actually...
In the summer I visited the church in Stratford on Avon where Shakespeare is buried. I was not there as a tourist as I shop there regularly but if I have time and I see a church I head for it (and some of the most humble ones are the loveliest)...I was astonished to see a couple of people sitting at a little table taking payment from visitors. Now I know that it probably costs a lot to keep these churches in good repair...but what about the people that want to visit the church just to worship....Have you got to explain to them...? On that occasion I just left.
Although it is written in Latin on the urn, there must be a translation nearby, because I clearly remember standing there quivering with rage...Eileen
>
> Can anyone (the Leicester MP or bishop, the RIII Society, the Duke of Gloucester) protest the public denigration? What a scandalous insult to the best king England ever had!
>
> Carol (You can tell which Carol by the style of my posts, I hope!)
>
Re: Commemoration
2012-10-04 01:09:21
Tee... tau... too late, m' 'fraid. I jus'... jus' kep' thinking of things to toast him for... 's governorhood of the north of England... 's treatment of 's fam'bly... 's Parliament... them pointy-toed shoes he was rockin' in that stained-glass window... jes' oodles o' reasons!
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
[Edit.]
I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical?
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
[Edit.]
I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical?
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 01:10:50
I'm not sure if attachments are stripped from our emails, but here goes.
Gilda
----------
On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:32 AM, marionziemke wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
> best
> Marion Z
Gilda
----------
On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:32 AM, marionziemke wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
> best
> Marion Z
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 01:14:50
Indeed! Some lovely ones, in fact. This particular site has some relevance to several topics under discussion:
http://kingrichardarmitage.rgcwp.com/2012/08/28/badge-of-the-white-boar-by-joe-ann-ricca/york-minster-riiif/
--- In , "marionziemke" <marionziemke@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
> best
> Marion Z
>
> --- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
http://kingrichardarmitage.rgcwp.com/2012/08/28/badge-of-the-white-boar-by-joe-ann-ricca/york-minster-riiif/
--- In , "marionziemke" <marionziemke@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
> best
> Marion Z
>
> --- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@> wrote:
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 01:15:12
>
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:32 AM, marionziemke wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
>> best
>> Marion Z
>
Since it wouldn't let me add it as an attachment, I've put the picture
of the window I took during my last visit in the Photo section at the
group's website. It's under "Yorkminster."
Gilda
> On Oct 3, 2012, at 10:32 AM, marionziemke wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
>> best
>> Marion Z
>
Since it wouldn't let me add it as an attachment, I've put the picture
of the window I took during my last visit in the Photo section at the
group's website. It's under "Yorkminster."
Gilda
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 01:27:31
As Brent Carradine commented in "The Daughter of Time", "What names you English think up for your Elks officials!"
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
Re: Commemoration
2012-10-04 14:41:56
Pricesless...!
--- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Tee... tau... too late, m' 'fraid. I jus'... jus' kep' thinking of things to toast him for... 's governorhood of the north of England... 's treatment of 's fam'bly... 's Parliament... them pointy-toed shoes he was rockin' in that stained-glass window... jes' oodles o' reasons!
>
> --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> [Edit.]
> I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical?
>
--- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Tee... tau... too late, m' 'fraid. I jus'... jus' kep' thinking of things to toast him for... 's governorhood of the north of England... 's treatment of 's fam'bly... 's Parliament... them pointy-toed shoes he was rockin' in that stained-glass window... jes' oodles o' reasons!
>
> --- In , "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> [Edit.]
> I imagine we all have views about our favourite way of commemorating Richard, but may I suggest that we keep them hypothetical?
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 21:03:35
And the "Surveyor of the Fabric" to give him his full title, is really an architect not a surveyor!
________________________________
From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2012, 1:27
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
As Brent Carradine commented in "The Daughter of Time", "What names you English think up for your Elks officials!"
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
________________________________
From: mcjohn_wt_net <mcjohn@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2012, 1:27
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
As Brent Carradine commented in "The Daughter of Time", "What names you English think up for your Elks officials!"
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> Â
> I used to work for the former Surveyor of the Abbey and my understanding is that because it is a Royal Peculiar it doesn't get money from the Church or the State (or the Crown!). The entrance fee is its best - and major -  way  of obtaining funding. I don't like it much either but I think it's preferable to having the Abbey go to rack and ruin.
> Â
> Â
> Liz
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-04 23:58:35
Marion,
We have a cropped picture of the memorial window on top right hand corner of
the home page of the Richard III Society of Canada website:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~richardiii
I took it when I was at York Minster in July 2010. If I recall correctly,
it’s in the east end south aisle, outside St. Stephen’s Chapel. The low
black crescent at the bottom of the photo is the top of the wall memorial to
another person (the name escapes me, but it was no one I’d heard of), below
the window.
Regards,
Tracy
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of marionziemke
Sent: October-03-12 10:33 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
Hi,
I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
best
Marion Z
--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , C HOLMES
<christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of
good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any
respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him.
There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To
think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it
is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled
the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at
Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good
chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is
openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester
Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with
that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word
"might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson"
<email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I
remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white
roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch.
I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution,
except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
We have a cropped picture of the memorial window on top right hand corner of
the home page of the Richard III Society of Canada website:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~richardiii
I took it when I was at York Minster in July 2010. If I recall correctly,
it’s in the east end south aisle, outside St. Stephen’s Chapel. The low
black crescent at the bottom of the photo is the top of the wall memorial to
another person (the name escapes me, but it was no one I’d heard of), below
the window.
Regards,
Tracy
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of marionziemke
Sent: October-03-12 10:33 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
Hi,
I would like to see that! Are there somewhere photos of the window?
best
Marion Z
--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , C HOLMES
<christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of
good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any
respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him.
There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To
think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it
is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled
the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at
Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good
chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is
openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester
Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with
that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word
"might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson"
<email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I
remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white
roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch.
I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution,
except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-05 11:57:52
" In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
released and then went on to Middleham again."
Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
Cheers
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
found.
Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
released and then went on to Middleham again."
Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
Cheers
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
found.
Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Christine,
>
> The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
>
> Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Â
>
> Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> means he has never been forgotten there.
> > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >> Regards, Annette
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Christine Headley
> >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >>
> >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >> York.)
> >>
> >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >> the Royal Household.
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> Christine
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-05 12:17:13
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÂÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÂÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Regards
Mary
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÂÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÂÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Richard in York
2012-10-05 12:26:09
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 16:04:56
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 16:08:08
Thank you Brittany and Jonathan for that......that is exactly the history that I enjoy....all the minutia ...love it....Eileen
--- In , Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...> wrote:
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> Subject: Richard in York
>
>
> Â
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> >
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> > found.
> >
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> > >
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> > >
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > > Christine,
> > >
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > >
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > >
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > > Eileen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > > >> Regards, Annette
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > > >>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > > >> York.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > > >> the Royal Household.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> Christine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...> wrote:
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> Subject: Richard in York
>
>
> Â
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> >
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> > found.
> >
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> > >
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> > >
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > > Christine,
> > >
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > >
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > ÂÂÂ
> > >
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > > Eileen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > > >> Regards, Annette
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > > >>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > > >> York.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > > >> the Royal Household.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> Christine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 16:21:39
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 16:27:07
If anyone gains access and cadges the pertinent material, many of us would be soooo grateful if you'd post it.
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: b.eileen25 <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Thank you Brittany and Jonathan for that......that is exactly the history that I enjoy....all the minutia ...love it....Eileen
--- In , Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...> wrote:
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> Subject: Richard in York
>
>
> Â
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> >
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.ÃÂ Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> > found.
> >
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> > >
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> > >
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > Christine,
> > >
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’â¬aàSimilarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’â¬aàThe society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > >
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > >
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > > Eileen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > > >> Regards, Annette
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > > >>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > > >> York.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > > >> the Royal Household.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> Christine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: b.eileen25 <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Thank you Brittany and Jonathan for that......that is exactly the history that I enjoy....all the minutia ...love it....Eileen
--- In , Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...> wrote:
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> Subject: Richard in York
>
>
> Â
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> >
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.ÃÂ Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> > found.
> >
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> > >
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> > >
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > Christine,
> > >
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’â¬aàSimilarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’â¬aàThe society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > >
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > >
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > > Eileen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > > >> Regards, Annette
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > > >>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > > >> York.)
> > > >>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > > >> the Royal Household.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes
> > > >> Christine
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 17:08:50
contemporary
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 17:35:04
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To:
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To:
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-05 18:04:59
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
This sounds like something a(much) later writer would come up with, in the vein of Washington chopping down the cherry tree, to provide folksy testament to a great man's virtue.
I doubt that Richard traveled alone. Wouldn't he have sent someone back with the message to release the man?
Katy
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
This sounds like something a(much) later writer would come up with, in the vein of Washington chopping down the cherry tree, to provide folksy testament to a great man's virtue.
I doubt that Richard traveled alone. Wouldn't he have sent someone back with the message to release the man?
Katy
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-05 18:20:30
>
> This sounds like something a(much) later writer would come up with, in the vein of Washington chopping down the cherry tree, to provide folksy testament to a great man's virtue.
>
> I doubt that Richard traveled alone. Wouldn't he have sent someone back with the message to release the man?
>
> Katy
>
Well, that's the problem with the paraphrased version of the story. Richard would have to be not only a saint but a saint in urgent need of a time management course. But maybe there 's a kernel of something there, which is why the source is so important. Just sending a messenger back would be equally admirable and more plausible...
Jonathan
> This sounds like something a(much) later writer would come up with, in the vein of Washington chopping down the cherry tree, to provide folksy testament to a great man's virtue.
>
> I doubt that Richard traveled alone. Wouldn't he have sent someone back with the message to release the man?
>
> Katy
>
Well, that's the problem with the paraphrased version of the story. Richard would have to be not only a saint but a saint in urgent need of a time management course. But maybe there 's a kernel of something there, which is why the source is so important. Just sending a messenger back would be equally admirable and more plausible...
Jonathan
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-05 19:11:34
--- In , "Jonathan" <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > This sounds like something a(much) later writer would come up with, in the vein of Washington chopping down the cherry tree, to provide folksy testament to a great man's virtue.
> >
> > I doubt that Richard traveled alone. Wouldn't he have sent someone back with the message to release the man?
> >
> > Katy
> >
>
>
> Well, that's the problem with the paraphrased version of the story. Richard would have to be not only a saint but a saint in urgent need of a time management course. But maybe there 's a kernel of something there, which is why the source is so important. Just sending a messenger back would be equally admirable and more plausible...
>
> Jonathan
I wouldn't doubt that there is a kernel of truth to the story. Sending someone back with orders to release the man sounds like something Richard would do, actually. I was just quibbling with the part that said he personally turned around and rode back.
Katy
>
> >
> > This sounds like something a(much) later writer would come up with, in the vein of Washington chopping down the cherry tree, to provide folksy testament to a great man's virtue.
> >
> > I doubt that Richard traveled alone. Wouldn't he have sent someone back with the message to release the man?
> >
> > Katy
> >
>
>
> Well, that's the problem with the paraphrased version of the story. Richard would have to be not only a saint but a saint in urgent need of a time management course. But maybe there 's a kernel of something there, which is why the source is so important. Just sending a messenger back would be equally admirable and more plausible...
>
> Jonathan
I wouldn't doubt that there is a kernel of truth to the story. Sending someone back with orders to release the man sounds like something Richard would do, actually. I was just quibbling with the part that said he personally turned around and rode back.
Katy
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 20:29:33
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@...> wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@...>
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To:
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To:
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@...> wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@...>
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To:
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To:
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 20:49:29
I have them at home, and if I can get there at a decent hour, I can start
hunting through them tonight.
Maria
ejbronte@...
(Celebrating Diderot's birthday today and Niels Bohr's on October 7!
Richard's in good sun-sign company. As I'm in the same sun-sign boat, I
can "kvell" a little)
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:29 PM, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and
> r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about
> 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@...> wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@...>
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To:
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the
> Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV,
> Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this
> story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House
> Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be
> found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the
> monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of
> abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in
> the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the
> Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes
> referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell',
> which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection
> lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist
> government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To:
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact
> wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all
> the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and
> when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a
> tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember
> that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't
> remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are
> any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans
> <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.ý Does
> anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ý
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the
> Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine
> of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the
> Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke
> of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very
> early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly
> remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode
> all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went
> on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something
> like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this
> could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some
> photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster
> when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster
> in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his
> remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham
> in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we
> stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and
> fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the
> time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of
> him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one
> because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't
> purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while
> Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The
> view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign
> initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III
> Group in York, not the society.ýýý Similarly, the memorial stone in
> Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester
> and was a leading horoculturist.ýýý The society may have contributed to it
> (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by
> Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York
> Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue,
> and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried
> to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would
> expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't
> expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour
> of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
> deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in
> any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about
> him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing.
> To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all
> it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and
> enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at
> Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good
> chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he
> is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey..
> Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those
> concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that
> city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the
> word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette
> Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I
> remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white
> roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch.
> I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution,
> except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless
> you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black
> Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all
> those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website
> -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for
> your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed
> for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the
> hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
hunting through them tonight.
Maria
ejbronte@...
(Celebrating Diderot's birthday today and Niels Bohr's on October 7!
Richard's in good sun-sign company. As I'm in the same sun-sign boat, I
can "kvell" a little)
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:29 PM, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and
> r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about
> 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@...> wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@...>
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To:
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the
> Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV,
> Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this
> story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House
> Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be
> found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the
> monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of
> abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in
> the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the
> Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes
> referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell',
> which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection
> lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist
> government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To:
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact
> wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all
> the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and
> when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a
> tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember
> that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't
> remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are
> any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans
> <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.ý Does
> anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ý
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the
> Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine
> of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the
> Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke
> of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very
> early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly
> remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode
> all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went
> on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something
> like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this
> could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some
> photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster
> when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster
> in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his
> remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham
> in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we
> stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and
> fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the
> time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of
> him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one
> because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't
> purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while
> Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The
> view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign
> initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III
> Group in York, not the society.ýýý Similarly, the memorial stone in
> Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester
> and was a leading horoculturist.ýýý The society may have contributed to it
> (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by
> Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York
> Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > ýýý
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue,
> and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried
> to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would
> expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't
> expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour
> of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
> deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in
> any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about
> him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing.
> To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all
> it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and
> enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at
> Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good
> chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he
> is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey..
> Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those
> concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that
> city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the
> word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette
> Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I
> remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white
> roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch.
> I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution,
> except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless
> you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black
> Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all
> those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website
> -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for
> your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed
> for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the
> hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 21:03:28
Wonderful! Hopefully that date of March 1482 should be a good place to start
(if I've got the reference correct).
Cheers, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria Torres" <ejbronte@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
I have them at home, and if I can get there at a decent hour, I can start
hunting through them tonight.
Maria
ejbronte@...
(Celebrating Diderot's birthday today and Niels Bohr's on October 7!
Richard's in good sun-sign company. As I'm in the same sun-sign boat, I
can "kvell" a little)
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:29 PM, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and
> r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about
> 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@...> wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@...>
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To:
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the
> Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV,
> Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this
> story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House
> Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be
> found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the
> monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place
> of
> abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in
> the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the
> Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes
> referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell',
> which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection
> lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist
> government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To:
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact
> wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all
> the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and
> when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a
> tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember
> that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't
> remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are
> any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans
> <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does
> anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Â
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the
> Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine
> of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the
> Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while
> Duke
> of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very
> early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly
> remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode
> all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went
> on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did
> something
> like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this
> could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some
> photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster
> when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster
> in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found
> his
> remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham
> in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and
> we
> stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and
> fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the
> time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of
> him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one
> because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't
> purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while
> Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The
> view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign
> initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III
> Group in York, not the society.Ã, Similarly, the memorial stone in
> Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester
> and was a leading horoculturist.Ã, The society may have contributed to it
> (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by
> Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York
> Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue,
> and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried
> to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would
> expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't
> expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour
> of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
> deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in
> any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about
> him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no
> memorials....nothing.
> To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After
> all
> it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and
> enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at
> Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good
> chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he
> is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey..
> Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those
> concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that
> city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the
> word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette
> Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I
> remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white
> roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society
> branch.
> I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution,
> except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless
> you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black
> Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all
> those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I
> > > >> know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website
> -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for
> your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed
> for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the
> hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
(if I've got the reference correct).
Cheers, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maria Torres" <ejbronte@...>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
I have them at home, and if I can get there at a decent hour, I can start
hunting through them tonight.
Maria
ejbronte@...
(Celebrating Diderot's birthday today and Niels Bohr's on October 7!
Richard's in good sun-sign company. As I'm in the same sun-sign boat, I
can "kvell" a little)
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 3:29 PM, fayre rose <fayreroze@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and
> r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about
> 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@...> wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@...>
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To:
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the
> Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV,
> Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this
> story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House
> Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be
> found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the
> monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place
> of
> abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in
> the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the
> Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes
> referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell',
> which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection
> lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist
> government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To:
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact
> wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
>
> To: "" <
> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all
> the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and
> when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's
> burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a
> tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember
> that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't
> remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are
> any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans
> <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does
> anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Â
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the
> Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine
> of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the
> Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while
> Duke
> of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York.
> While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he
> lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very
> early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly
> remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode
> all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went
> on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did
> something
> like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this
> could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some
> photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster
> when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster
> in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found
> his
> remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham
> in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and
> we
> stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and
> fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the
> time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of
> him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one
> because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't
> purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while
> Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The
> view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign
> initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III
> Group in York, not the society.Ã, Similarly, the memorial stone in
> Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester
> and was a leading horoculturist.Ã, The society may have contributed to it
> (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by
> Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York
> Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã,Â
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue,
> and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried
> to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would
> expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't
> expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour
> of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not
> deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in
> any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about
> him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no
> memorials....nothing.
> To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After
> all
> it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and
> enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at
> Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good
> chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he
> is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey..
> Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those
> concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that
> city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the
> word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette
> Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I
> remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white
> roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society
> branch.
> I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution,
> except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on
> Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless
> you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black
> Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all
> those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I
> > > >> know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website
> -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for
> your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed
> for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the
> hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 21:53:21
OK, Rose and everyone
I've never heard of these books before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn't) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN's and greatly varying prices. I know I really can't afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
TTFN,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
I've never heard of these books before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn't) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN's and greatly varying prices. I know I really can't afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
TTFN,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 22:18:47
I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> Johanne
Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> eileen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Â
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Johanne
Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> eileen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Â
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society. Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist. The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > ÂÂ
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 22:46:11
That's music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
But I'm sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I'd really enjoy and I can't buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
Johanne
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
I know I really canâ¬"t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> Johanne
Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> eileen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97@...%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98@...%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.Ã Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ã
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’â¬aà Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’â¬aà The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
But I'm sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I'd really enjoy and I can't buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
Johanne
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
I know I really canâ¬"t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> Johanne
Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> eileen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97@...%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98@...%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.Ã Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ã
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’â¬aà Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’â¬aà The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 22:55:09
I cannot help you there Johanne....but Im sure others can....actually I would be very interested to know as well....Eileen
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> That’s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
>
>
>
> But I’m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I’d really enjoy and I can’t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
>
>
>
> Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > Johanne
>
> Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > eileen
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> >
> > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> >
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans
> >
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > It is in the York House Records
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Richard in York
> >
> > Thanks, Mary.
> >
> > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> >
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> >
> > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> >
> > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> >
> > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> >
> > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> >
> > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> >
> > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jonathan
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Â
> >
> > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> >
> > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> >
> > > found.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mary
> >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Judy
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Christine,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÆ'‚Â Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÆ'‚Â The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> >
> > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> >
> > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> >
> > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> >
> > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> >
> > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> >
> > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Best wishes
> >
> > > > Christine
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> >
> > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> >
> > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> >
> > > > > Eileen
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >
> > > > >> Regards, Annette
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> >
> > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >
> > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >
> > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >
> > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >
> > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >
> > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >
> > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >
> > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >
> > > > >> York.)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >
> > > > >> the Royal Household.
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> Best wishes
> >
> > > > >> Christine
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> That’s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
>
>
>
> But I’m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I’d really enjoy and I can’t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
>
>
>
> Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > Johanne
>
> Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > eileen
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> >
> > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> >
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans
> >
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > It is in the York House Records
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Richard in York
> >
> > Thanks, Mary.
> >
> > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> >
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> >
> > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> >
> > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> >
> > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> >
> > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> >
> > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> >
> > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jonathan
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Â
> >
> > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> >
> > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> >
> > > found.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mary
> >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Judy
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Christine,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÆ'‚Â Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÆ'‚Â The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> >
> > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> >
> > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> >
> > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> >
> > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> >
> > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> >
> > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Best wishes
> >
> > > > Christine
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> >
> > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> >
> > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> >
> > > > > Eileen
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >
> > > > >> Regards, Annette
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> >
> > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >
> > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >
> > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >
> > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >
> > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >
> > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >
> > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >
> > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >
> > > > >> York.)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >
> > > > >> the Royal Household.
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> Best wishes
> >
> > > > >> Christine
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 22:56:16
Another pertinent question: Are these books possibly available through loan from the Society? Or might they even be had via regular Inter-library Loan?
If they are mostly needed to answer the one question, borrowing and getting a "feel" for their usefulness might be one route. Then you would know if you really *need* a set...
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: Richard in York
That's music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
But I'm sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I'd really enjoy and I can't buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
Johanne
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
I know I really canâ¬"t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> Johanne
Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> eileen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97@...%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98@...%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.Ã Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ã
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’â¬aà Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’â¬aà The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
If they are mostly needed to answer the one question, borrowing and getting a "feel" for their usefulness might be one route. Then you would know if you really *need* a set...
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: Richard in York
That's music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
But I'm sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I'd really enjoy and I can't buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
Johanne
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
I know I really canâ¬"t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> Johanne
Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> eileen
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
> bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
>
> too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
>
> --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
>
> From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email@...%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
>
>
>
> I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
>
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jonathan Evans
>
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97@...%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
>
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
> It is in the York House Records
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98@...%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
>
> To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
>
> Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
>
> Subject: Richard in York
>
> Thanks, Mary.
>
> It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
>
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
>
> > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
>
> > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
>
> > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
>
> > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
>
> > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
>
> > released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.Ã Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> >
>
> > Cheers
>
> >
>
> > Jonathan
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
>
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ã
>
> > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
>
> > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
>
> > found.
>
> >
>
> > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> >
>
> > Mary
>
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
>
> > >
>
> > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
>
> > >
>
> > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
>
> > >
>
> > > Judy
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Loyaulte me lie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > > Christine,
>
> > >
>
> > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’â¬aà Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’â¬aà The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________
>
> > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
>
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > >
>
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
>
> > >
>
> > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
>
> > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
>
> > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
>
> > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
>
> > >
>
> > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
>
> > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
>
> > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
>
> > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
>
> > >
>
> > > Best wishes
>
> > > Christine
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
>
> > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
>
> > > means he has never been forgotten there.
>
> > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
>
> > > > Eileen
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
>
> > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
>
> > > >> Regards, Annette
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >> From: Christine Headley
>
> > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
>
> > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
>
> > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
>
> > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
>
> > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
>
> > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
>
> > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
>
> > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
>
> > > >> York.)
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
>
> > > >> the Royal Household.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Best wishes
>
> > > >> Christine
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-05 23:55:03
From what I've gathered, the York Records (York City Records, York Civil Records, York Civic Records, York Records--there seem to be a lot of 'em, or at any rate a lot of names) are most useful for detailed scholarly research. They'd mention Richard of Gloucester during his tenure there, but mostly what you'd get is reports on trash removal, the adjudication of Sarah Williams' loose pigs eating the cabbages from Mrs. Smith's gardens, arguments over mayoral selection, military musters, how high the water got during the flood and how many houses it ruined, appeals for whatever to the nobility and the crown, how unpopular the recent tax on rushes was, and the fine of 6d assessed against William Brown and Thomas Roberts for brawling while drunk.
To my highly opinionated and therefore decidedly correct way of thinking, the best of all possible presentations would be to digitize the lot, produce a text version, and toss it all into a searchable database with Web access. Those kinds of projects tend to be extremely expensive, though, and the thought of letting the original books loose to be placed on a scanner bed just gives antiquarians the screaming willies.
--- In , "b.eileen25" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> I cannot help you there Johanne....but Im sure others can....actually I would be very interested to know as well....Eileen
>
> --- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@> wrote:
> >
> > That’s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
> >
> >
> >
> > But I’m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I’d really enjoy and I can’t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
> >
> >
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> >
> >
> > From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > > Johanne
> >
> > Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > > eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > Johanne L. Tournier
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Email - jltournier60@
> > >
> > > or jltournier@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "With God, all things are possible."
> > >
> > > - Jesus of Nazareth
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> > >
> > > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> > >
> > > Regards, Annette
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Jonathan Evans
> > >
> > > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > >
> > > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> > >
> > > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > >
> > > It is in the York House Records
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> > >
> > > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> > >
> > > Subject: Richard in York
> > >
> > > Thanks, Mary.
> > >
> > > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> > >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Mary
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> > >
> > > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> > >
> > > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> > >
> > > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> > >
> > > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> > >
> > > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> > >
> > > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Cheers
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> > >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Â
> > >
> > > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> > >
> > > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> > >
> > > > found.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Regards
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Mary
> > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Judy
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > >
> > > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > > Christine,
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÆ'‚Â Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÆ'‚Â The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > >
> > > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > >
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > >
> > > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > >
> > > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > >
> > > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > >
> > > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > >
> > > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > >
> > > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > > > Christine
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > >
> > > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > >
> > > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > >
> > > > > > Eileen
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >
> > > > > >> Regards, Annette
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >
> > > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >
> > > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >
> > > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >
> > > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >
> > > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >
> > > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >
> > > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >
> > > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >
> > > > > >> York.)
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >
> > > > > >> the Royal Household.
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> Best wishes
> > >
> > > > > >> Christine
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
To my highly opinionated and therefore decidedly correct way of thinking, the best of all possible presentations would be to digitize the lot, produce a text version, and toss it all into a searchable database with Web access. Those kinds of projects tend to be extremely expensive, though, and the thought of letting the original books loose to be placed on a scanner bed just gives antiquarians the screaming willies.
--- In , "b.eileen25" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> I cannot help you there Johanne....but Im sure others can....actually I would be very interested to know as well....Eileen
>
> --- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@> wrote:
> >
> > That’s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
> >
> >
> >
> > But I’m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I’d really enjoy and I can’t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
> >
> >
> >
> > Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
> >
> >
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> >
> >
> > From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > > Johanne
> >
> > Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > > eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > Johanne L. Tournier
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Email - jltournier60@
> > >
> > > or jltournier@
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "With God, all things are possible."
> > >
> > > - Jesus of Nazareth
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> > >
> > > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> > >
> > > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> > >
> > > Regards, Annette
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Jonathan Evans
> > >
> > > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > >
> > > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> > >
> > > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > >
> > > It is in the York House Records
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> > >
> > > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> > >
> > > Subject: Richard in York
> > >
> > > Thanks, Mary.
> > >
> > > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> > >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Mary
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> > >
> > > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> > >
> > > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> > >
> > > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> > >
> > > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> > >
> > > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> > >
> > > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Cheers
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Jonathan
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> > >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Â
> > >
> > > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> > >
> > > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> > >
> > > > found.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Regards
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Mary
> > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Judy
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > >
> > > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > > Christine,
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÆ'‚Â Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÆ'‚Â The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > >
> > > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > >
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > >
> > > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > >
> > > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > >
> > > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > >
> > > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > >
> > > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > >
> > > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > > > Christine
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > >
> > > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > >
> > > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > >
> > > > > > Eileen
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >
> > > > > >> Regards, Annette
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >
> > > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >
> > > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >
> > > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >
> > > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >
> > > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >
> > > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >
> > > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >
> > > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >
> > > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >
> > > > > >> York.)
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >
> > > > > >> the Royal Household.
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >> Best wishes
> > >
> > > > > >> Christine
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > > >>
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-06 00:15:42
They are the surviving minutes of the York city council for the period. They are reference books, then, but there are LOADS of references to Richard. If you're doing any research into Richard they're a must have, but if not, well, it's a lot of money. I got mine years ago really cheaply - slightly water damaged owing to warehouse flood.
Marie
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> That’s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
>
>
>
> But I’m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I’d really enjoy and I can’t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
>
>
>
> Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > Johanne
>
> Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > eileen
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> >
> > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> >
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans
> >
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > It is in the York House Records
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Richard in York
> >
> > Thanks, Mary.
> >
> > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> >
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> >
> > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> >
> > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> >
> > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> >
> > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> >
> > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> >
> > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jonathan
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Â
> >
> > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> >
> > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> >
> > > found.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mary
> >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Judy
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Christine,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÆ'‚Â Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÆ'‚Â The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> >
> > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> >
> > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> >
> > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> >
> > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> >
> > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> >
> > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Best wishes
> >
> > > > Christine
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> >
> > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> >
> > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> >
> > > > > Eileen
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >
> > > > >> Regards, Annette
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> >
> > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >
> > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >
> > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >
> > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >
> > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >
> > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >
> > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >
> > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >
> > > > >> York.)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >
> > > > >> the Royal Household.
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> Best wishes
> >
> > > > >> Christine
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Marie
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> That’s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
>
>
>
> But I’m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies I’d really enjoy and I can’t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
>
>
>
> Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > Johanne
>
> Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > eileen
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> >
> > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> >
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans
> >
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > It is in the York House Records
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Richard in York
> >
> > Thanks, Mary.
> >
> > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> >
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> >
> > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> >
> > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> >
> > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> >
> > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> >
> > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> >
> > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jonathan
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Â
> >
> > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> >
> > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> >
> > > found.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mary
> >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Judy
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > > Christine,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÆ'‚Â Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÆ'‚Â The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> >
> > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> >
> > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> >
> > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> >
> > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> >
> > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> >
> > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Best wishes
> >
> > > > Christine
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> >
> > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> >
> > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> >
> > > > > Eileen
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >
> > > > >> Regards, Annette
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> >
> > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >
> > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >
> > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >
> > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >
> > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >
> > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >
> > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >
> > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >
> > > > >> York.)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >
> > > > >> the Royal Household.
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> Best wishes
> >
> > > > >> Christine
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-06 01:45:01
I have it on excellent authority that the American Branch, RIII Society's lending library does, indeed, have the York records available for perusal, if you're a Member.
As to which of you will queue up first...? "And they're off!" Good luck. ;-)
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
They are the surviving minutes of the York city council for the period. They are reference books, then, but there are LOADS of references to Richard. If you're doing any research into Richard they're a must have, but if not, well, it's a lot of money. I got mine years ago really cheaply - slightly water damaged owing to warehouse flood.
Marie
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Thatâ¬"s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
>
>
>
> But Iâ¬"m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies Iâ¬"d really enjoy and I canâ¬"t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
>
>
>
> Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I really canââ¬â ¢t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > Johanne
>
> Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > eileen
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> >
> > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> >
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans
> >
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > It is in the York House Records
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Richard in York
> >
> > Thanks, Mary.
> >
> > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> >
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> >
> > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> >
> > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> >
> > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> >
> > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> >
> > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> >
> > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.Ã’â¬a Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jonathan
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> >
> > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> >
> > > found.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mary
> >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Judy
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > > Christine,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> >
> > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> >
> > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> >
> > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> >
> > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> >
> > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> >
> > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Best wishes
> >
> > > > Christine
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> >
> > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> >
> > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> >
> > > > > Eileen
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >
> > > > >> Regards, Annette
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> >
> > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >
> > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >
> > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >
> > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >
> > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >
> > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >
> > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >
> > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >
> > > > >> York.)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >
> > > > >> the Royal Household.
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> Best wishes
> >
> > > > >> Christine
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
As to which of you will queue up first...? "And they're off!" Good luck. ;-)
Judy
Loyaulte me lie
________________________________
From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
They are the surviving minutes of the York city council for the period. They are reference books, then, but there are LOADS of references to Richard. If you're doing any research into Richard they're a must have, but if not, well, it's a lot of money. I got mine years ago really cheaply - slightly water damaged owing to warehouse flood.
Marie
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Thatâ¬"s music to my shopaholic ears, Eileen!
>
>
>
> But Iâ¬"m sure there are a lot of Ricardian goodies Iâ¬"d really enjoy and I canâ¬"t buy *everything.* So, please tell me what makes these books really worth having? Are they the kind of thing I would spend a leisurely hour reading in the evening? Or are they strictly reference books? Do they only pertain to the City of York? How much is devoted to Richard?
>
>
>
> Any info you can give me is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 6:19 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Richard in York
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know I really canââ¬â ¢t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
> > Johanne
>
> Johanne...if you want these books you get them and enjoy...If a girl can't treat herself now and again what is the point....
> > eileen
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of fayre rose
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
> >
> > too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
> >
> > --- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
> >
> > From: Annette Carson <email@ <mailto:email@%20%3cmailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
> > Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
> >
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans
> >
> > To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@ <mailto:brittania97@%20%3cmailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
> >
> > Subject: Re: Richard in York
> >
> > It is in the York House Records
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@ <mailto:jmcevans98@%20%3cmailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
> >
> > To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> >
> > Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
> >
> > Subject: Richard in York
> >
> > Thanks, Mary.
> >
> > It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
> >
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Mary
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> >
> > > Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> >
> > > way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> >
> > > off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> >
> > > he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> >
> > > release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> >
> > > released and then went on to Middleham again."
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before.Ã’â¬a Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cheers
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Jonathan
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ________________________________
> >
> > > From: ricard1an <maryfriend@>
> >
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> >
> > > One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> >
> > > found.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Mary
> >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Judy
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > > Christine,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> >
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > ________________________________
> >
> > > > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> >
> > > > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬a
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> >
> > > > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> >
> > > > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> >
> > > > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> >
> > > > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> >
> > > > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> >
> > > > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Best wishes
> >
> > > > Christine
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> >
> > > > means he has never been forgotten there.
> >
> > > > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> >
> > > > > Eileen
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> >
> > > > >> Regards, Annette
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > > >> From: Christine Headley
> >
> > > > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> >
> > > > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> >
> > > > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> >
> > > > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> >
> > > > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> >
> > > > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> >
> > > > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> >
> > > > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> >
> > > > >> York.)
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> >
> > > > >> the Royal Household.
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >> Best wishes
> >
> > > > >> Christine
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
York House Books (WAS: Richard in York)
2012-10-06 02:12:36
Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> I’ve never heard of these books [Atreed's two-volume set] before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn’t) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN’s and greatly varying prices. I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
Carol responds:
I haven't seen the Atreed volumes (unless I consulted them years ago when I had access to a university library), so I may be way off base, but I'm pretty sure that these books are for specialists--or at any rate for people who have already done extensive reading about Richard and his times and are familiar with fifteenth-century English. Before delving into them, I would recommend reading everything that you can get your hands on aimed at the nonspecialist. But if you want to borrow or just examine some of the more specialized books, say York Records or the Harleian manuscripts, your best bet would probably be a university library or a major city library with interlibrary loan. The university where I used to teach allows people not affiliated with the university to buy a library card for $40.00 a year (though they may have raised the price since I last checked), and I suspect that other university libraries charge similar fees. Still, that's better than forking out a lot of money for books that are only partially related to Richard and written in fifteenth-century English.
Just my two cents (I want to say tuppence, but I suppose that term has gone by the wayside).
Carol
>
<snip>
>
> I’ve never heard of these books [Atreed's two-volume set] before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn’t) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN’s and greatly varying prices. I know I really can’t afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
Carol responds:
I haven't seen the Atreed volumes (unless I consulted them years ago when I had access to a university library), so I may be way off base, but I'm pretty sure that these books are for specialists--or at any rate for people who have already done extensive reading about Richard and his times and are familiar with fifteenth-century English. Before delving into them, I would recommend reading everything that you can get your hands on aimed at the nonspecialist. But if you want to borrow or just examine some of the more specialized books, say York Records or the Harleian manuscripts, your best bet would probably be a university library or a major city library with interlibrary loan. The university where I used to teach allows people not affiliated with the university to buy a library card for $40.00 a year (though they may have raised the price since I last checked), and I suspect that other university libraries charge similar fees. Still, that's better than forking out a lot of money for books that are only partially related to Richard and written in fifteenth-century English.
Just my two cents (I want to say tuppence, but I suppose that term has gone by the wayside).
Carol
York House Books (WAS: Richard in York)
2012-10-06 02:25:08
Marie wrote:
>
> They are the surviving minutes of the York city council for the period. They are reference books, then, but there are LOADS of references to Richard. If you're doing any research into Richard they're a must have, but if not, well, it's a lot of money. I got mine years ago really cheaply - slightly water damaged owing to warehouse flood.
Carol responds:
I wonder if anyone has considered extracting just the Ricardian portions, something along the lines of Gairdner's "Letters and Papers Illustrative of the Reigns of Richard III and Henry VII" but up to date, exclusive to York, relating to Richard's dukedom as well as his kingship, and minus Henry.
Just a thought. Maybe it would make a worthwhile dissertation for someone, especially if the papers are annotated from a Ricardian perspective.
Carol
>
> They are the surviving minutes of the York city council for the period. They are reference books, then, but there are LOADS of references to Richard. If you're doing any research into Richard they're a must have, but if not, well, it's a lot of money. I got mine years ago really cheaply - slightly water damaged owing to warehouse flood.
Carol responds:
I wonder if anyone has considered extracting just the Ricardian portions, something along the lines of Gairdner's "Letters and Papers Illustrative of the Reigns of Richard III and Henry VII" but up to date, exclusive to York, relating to Richard's dukedom as well as his kingship, and minus Henry.
Just a thought. Maybe it would make a worthwhile dissertation for someone, especially if the papers are annotated from a Ricardian perspective.
Carol
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-06 04:48:14
i can't tell you why or why not you should purchase your own copy of the books...but i can answer the two different isbn numbers. that is because one is a set of two volumes and the other is volume 1 of 2.
the price range depends upon the mark up. some book sellers list books owned by other booksellers..and then when you "buy" from them they put an additional charge on the book. even the bookworld there are scammers and con artists..sigh.
i wouldn't mind a dollar or two worth of inflated price, but some of these sellers really pump up the price. just use caution when purchasing.
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
Subject: RE: Richard in York
To:
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 4:53 PM
OK, Rose and everyone
I've never heard of these books before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn't) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN's and greatly varying prices. I know I really can't afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
TTFN,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
the price range depends upon the mark up. some book sellers list books owned by other booksellers..and then when you "buy" from them they put an additional charge on the book. even the bookworld there are scammers and con artists..sigh.
i wouldn't mind a dollar or two worth of inflated price, but some of these sellers really pump up the price. just use caution when purchasing.
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
Subject: RE: Richard in York
To:
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 4:53 PM
OK, Rose and everyone
I've never heard of these books before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn't) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN's and greatly varying prices. I know I really can't afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
TTFN,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Richard in York
2012-10-06 05:43:22
Dear Rose and Everyone -
Middle of the night here but just wanted to send a thank you off for all the good info about these books. I have very little experience reading writing of the period and am definitely a generalist at this point. Some have mentioned academic libraries - well as it happens I am currently a graduate student at Acadia University in Wolfville, so I wouldn't have to pay anything extra - unless they charge for going outside my area of study.
So it looks like these chummies are not for me at present at least. Again, thanks for everyone's perspective.
Johanne
-----Original Message-----
From: fayre rose
Sent: 6 Oct 2012 03:48:17 GMT
To:
Subject: RE: Richard in York
i can't tell you why or why not you should purchase your own copy of the books...but i can answer the two different isbn numbers. that is because one is a set of two volumes and the other is volume 1 of 2.
the price range depends upon the mark up. some book sellers list books owned by other booksellers..and then when you "buy" from them they put an additional charge on the book. even the bookworld there are scammers and con artists..sigh.
i wouldn't mind a dollar or two worth of inflated price, but some of these sellers really pump up the price. just use caution when purchasing.
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
Subject: RE: Richard in York
To:
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 4:53 PM
OK, Rose and everyone
I've never heard of these books before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn't) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN's and greatly varying prices. I know I really can't afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
TTFN,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Middle of the night here but just wanted to send a thank you off for all the good info about these books. I have very little experience reading writing of the period and am definitely a generalist at this point. Some have mentioned academic libraries - well as it happens I am currently a graduate student at Acadia University in Wolfville, so I wouldn't have to pay anything extra - unless they charge for going outside my area of study.
So it looks like these chummies are not for me at present at least. Again, thanks for everyone's perspective.
Johanne
-----Original Message-----
From: fayre rose
Sent: 6 Oct 2012 03:48:17 GMT
To:
Subject: RE: Richard in York
i can't tell you why or why not you should purchase your own copy of the books...but i can answer the two different isbn numbers. that is because one is a set of two volumes and the other is volume 1 of 2.
the price range depends upon the mark up. some book sellers list books owned by other booksellers..and then when you "buy" from them they put an additional charge on the book. even the bookworld there are scammers and con artists..sigh.
i wouldn't mind a dollar or two worth of inflated price, but some of these sellers really pump up the price. just use caution when purchasing.
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
Subject: RE: Richard in York
To:
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 4:53 PM
OK, Rose and everyone
I've never heard of these books before. Please convince me why I should (or shouldn't) get the two-volume set for my library, and how to distinguish the various versions that appear on bookfinder.com with two different ISBN's and greatly varying prices. I know I really can't afford the two-volume set, but if it were worth it, I would try to buy it anyway and try to find room on my shelves. (sheepish grin)
TTFN,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:29 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Richard in York
bookfinder.com has attreed's two vol set 1461-1490 reigns of e4, e5 and r3 listed at 95$ cdn. this includes almost 12$ in shipping costs. so about 50 brit pounds and the books are yours.
too bad my birthday and christmas are both in dec..sigh
--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> > wrote:
From: Annette Carson <email@... <mailto:email%40annettecarson.plus.com> >
Subject: Re: Richard in York
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Received: Friday, October 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have the Davies edition of the York Records ("Extracts from the Municipal Records of the City of York during the Reigns of Edward IV, Edward V and Richard III") - I don't know if this is meant, but if so this story isn't in there. However, there is an edition entitled "York House Books" edited by Attreed which is beyond my pocket, so maybe it can be found there. A footnote on page 125 of the Davies edition states that the monastery of the Augustinian Friars 'was, very probably, his usual place of abode during his frequent visits to York'. This relates to a reference in the minutes to a deputation visiting the Duke of Gloucester at the Augustine Friars in March 1482. A few days later there are minutes referring to offenders being punished for 'ringing of the common bell', which Davies suggests demonstrates 'a spirit of discontent or disaffection lurking in the city, even at this advanced period of the Yorkist government'. If anyone has a copy of
Attreed, perhaps it is worth looking at her notes for the same incident?
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Evans
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: Richard in York
Yes, that was mentioned earlier. I was wondering more about the exact wording and when it was added. Was it contemporaneous, or local tradition?
Jonathan
________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 16:04
Subject: Re: Richard in York
It is in the York House Records
________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@... <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> >
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 4:26 AM
Subject: Richard in York
Thanks, Mary.
It's such a human story and - as human stories are sorely missed for all the participants in this story - it would be lovely to pin down where and when it was first recorded so we can make as guess as to its authenticity.
Jonathan
________________________________
From: ricard1an <mailto:maryfriend%40waitrose.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 5 October 2012, 12:17
Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
Jonathon, while my local R3 Branch was on a visit to York we were given a tour of York by Dorothy Mitchell of The Friends of Richard 111. I remember that she said it was in the York Records but other than that I don't remember her saying anything else. I just remember the story. If there are any members of the Friends on this Forum they may have more information.
Regards
Mary
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> " In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of
> Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long
> way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set
> off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way
> he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his
> release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was
> released and then went on to Middleham again."
>
>
> Fascinating story, and not one that I remember hearing before. Does anyone know what kind of provenance it has?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ricard1an <maryfriend@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 21:02
> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
>
>
> Â
> Judy, I met Dorothy several times when we had branch visits to York.
> One time she gave us a tour of York including the Minster and the Augustinian Friary/or would it be Priory. It was excellent, she was a mine of information. I remember one thing that she told us while at the Augustinians. In the York records there is an record of Richard, while Duke of Gloucester, arriving in York quite late. He had been riding for a long way and was tired. He always stayed with the Augustinians while in York. While asleep he was woken by a drunk making a noise outside. Apparently he lost his temper and had the man arrested. The next morning he set off very early for Middleham. When they had travelled quite a long way he suddenly remembered about the drunk and how he had not ordered his release. He rode all the way back to York to ensure that the man was released and then went on to Middleham again. Dorothy's comment was would a man, who did something like that, kill his nephews. I don't know where in the York records this could be
> found.
>
> Dorothy was a very loyal Ricardian and a lovely lady. I have some photographs of the weekend that there was a special service at the Minster when Dorothy and the Friends of Richard 111 gave a chalice to the Minster in Richard's memory. She would have been so pleased that they had found his remains, if indeed they have.
>
> Regards
>
> Mary
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > I knew Dorothy Mitchell. She accompanied my friend and me to Middleham in 1980. Great lady. We had a wonderful couple of days in Yorkshire, and we stayed in touch for a while 'til I was involved in an auto accident and fell down on my end of the correspondence.
> >
> > There was a young man from Australia who joined us for part of the time. Edgar "Something." Lovely lad...I've often wondered what became of him. He had a beautifully embroidered Boar Badge, and he mailed me one because the shoppes were closed when we got back to York, and I couldn't purchase one for myself....
> >
> > I'll never forget us climbing (illicitly) on a pile of rubble, while Dorothy stood "Look Out" for official persons who might chastise us. The view was worth the danger.
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > Christine,
> >
> > The memorial window in York Minster was a fund raising campaign initiated by the late Dorothy Mitchell from the friends of the Richard III Group in York, not the society.ÃÂ Similarly, the memorial stone in Leicester Cathedral was started by Dorothy Cooke, who lived in Leicester and was a leading horoculturist.ÃÂ The society may have contributed to it (dont know who all the donors were), but do know that was spearheaded by Dorothy Cooke.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 7:15 AM
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Yes the Richard 111 Society paid for the memorial window in York Minster
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 14:19
> > Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Leicester University and, I would have thought, the City Council are
> > primarily interested in the Greyfriars. And who paid for the statue, and
> > the memorial in the cathedral? Has the Richard III Society ever tried to
> > put up a memorial in York Minster?
> >
> > There are restrictions on local government spending which I would expect
> > to make York City Council and North Yorkshire think twice about
> > contributing to archaeology so far from home; indeed, I wouldn't expect
> > the archaeologists to bother asking. It hardly counts as 'localism'.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 12:49, EileenB wrote:
> > > My tuppenceworth is let the good people of Leicester have the honour of good King Richard's last burial place in their cathedral. York does not deserve him...they have said not a dickybird nor contributed one iota in any respect towards the finding of Richard or had a kind word to say about him. There are no plaques in York Minster to him...no memorials....nothing. To think that they might gain financially now is beyond the pale. After all it is Leicester Council and taxpayers have contributed financially and enabled the dig to take place whereas those authorities (and the Queen) at Westminster will not even let the few bones be examined with a very good chance that this might help exonerate King Richard from the crime that he is openly blamed (the wording on the blasted urn) for in the Abbey.. Leicester Cathedral already has a memorial to him...God Bless those concerned with that...and there is a very fine statue of him in that city....which
> > means he has never been forgotten there.
> > > Please note my mention in the above sentence re the bones of the word "might"....not would...but might.
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Annette Carson" <email@> wrote:
> > >> When last I visited Leicester Cathedral, there was no charge. I remember Richard's memorial tablet was adorned with two wreaths of white roses, thanks to the ministrations of the local Richard III Society branch. I don't think he is remembered at any other major religious institution, except at Westminster Abbey where he is publicly denigrated.
> > >> Regards, Annette
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Christine Headley
> > >> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:02 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> You already have to pay to get into many English cathedrals unless you
> > >> want to attend a service. You pay to see Henry IV and the Black Prince
> > >> (and Cardinal Morton) at Canterbury, Edward II at Gloucester, all those
> > >> at Westminster. I don't know about York Minster or Leicester (I know
> > >> nothing about Leicester, so that could be a learning opportunity).
> > >>
> > >> There are several petitions going at the central government website -
> > >> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - regarding Richard's last resting
> > >> place, but it asks whether you are a UK resident and later on for your
> > >> postcode, and I don't know what happens to foreigners. (I've signed for
> > >> York.)
> > >>
> > >> It was made clear at the Society AGM that the matter is in the hands of
> > >> the Royal Household.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes
> > >> Christine
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-09 17:51:03
Karen wrote:
I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
(whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
Me: I agree with you K
I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
(whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
Me: I agree with you K
Re: Bishop of Leicester on Richard's burial service (video)
2012-10-09 18:02:15
I agree however the circus has opened and it is highly unlikely that R3 will be quietly put back to rest now multi national media are involved
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Pamela Furmidge <pamela.furmidge@...> wrote:
>
>
> Karen wrote:
>
>
>
> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>
> Me: I agree with you K
>
>
>
>
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 9, 2012, at 12:51 PM, Pamela Furmidge <pamela.furmidge@...> wrote:
>
>
> Karen wrote:
>
>
>
> I think he makes a compelling case for Leicester, and a quiet reburial
> (whether it's Richard or someone else). I'd hate to see this turned into
> some kind of circus, with the remains moved somewhere else because a bunch
> of loud voices insist on knowing where he should be buried.
>
> Me: I agree with you K
>
>
>
>
Richard III on Amazon
As an Amazon Associate, We earn from qualifying purchases.