E-petition by the British government to bury Richard in York?

It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772

Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?

Carol

It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
reason not to add your name.

And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.

I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.

*Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.

Best wishes
Christine

On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
>
> Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Best wishes
Christine

Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos

....but there is also no reason why you can't set up a similar petition if you believe that Richard should stay in Leicester or anywhere else in fact.

Regards,

Neil



On 3 Oct 2012, at 20:22, Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...> wrote:

>
> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> reason not to add your name.
>
> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
>
> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
>
> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> >
> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>

Many Ricardians feel he should be returned to York where he himself made plans in 1483.  Surely Richard's final wishes can and should be respected



________________________________
From: Neil Trump <neil.trump@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 

....but there is also no reason why you can't set up a similar petition if you believe that Richard should stay in Leicester or anywhere else in fact.

Regards,

Neil

On 3 Oct 2012, at 20:22, Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> reason not to add your name.
>
> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
>
> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
>
> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> >
> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>

what is the source documentation of what richard's wishes were with regards to his demise/burial place?

--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...> wrote:

From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@...>
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
To: "" <>
Received: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:38 PM
















 









Many Ricardians feel he should be returned to York where he himself made plans in 1483.  Surely Richard's final wishes can and should be respected



________________________________

From: Neil Trump <neil.trump@...>

To: "" <>

Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?





 



....but there is also no reason why you can't set up a similar petition if you believe that Richard should stay in Leicester or anywhere else in fact.



Regards,



Neil



On 3 Oct 2012, at 20:22, Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk> wrote:



>

> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark

> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no

> reason not to add your name.

>

> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British

> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.

>

> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*

> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.

>

> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.

>

> Best wishes

> Christine

>

> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:

> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772

> >

> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?

> >

> > Carol

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Best wishes

> Christine

>

> Christine Headley

> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos

>

>

________________________________
From: Brittany Wynter wrote:



 
Many Ricardians feel he should be returned to York where he himself made plans in 1483.  Surely Richard's final wishes can and should be respected

Well this is one Ricardian who doesn't.  Richard may have hoped to have had a chantry chapel in York for himself, Anne and Edward, but in the event, Anne was buried in Westminster and no one knows for certain where Edward is buried.  Richard has lain in Leicester since the battle, and up until the Reformation, his grave would have been tended by the monks and prayers said over him daily.  In a sense, Leicester has protected his remains ever since Bosworth (albeit in latter years by putting a car park on the site - but what excellent protection in the event).  The Cathedral is only yards from where his grave was.  I think he should be reburied with all honour in Leicester.



________________________________
From: Neil Trump <neil.trump@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 

....but there is also no reason why you can't set up a similar petition if you believe that Richard should stay in Leicester or anywhere else in fact.

Regards,

Neil

On 3 Oct 2012, at 20:22, Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> reason not to add your name.
>
> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
>
> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
>
> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> >
> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>

Could I just note, humbly, that it's possible that Richard's own wishes might have changed, if he saw his memory treated with respect and even affection in Leicester in the ensuing centuries.



Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of fayre rose
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:53 PM
To:
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?





what is the source documentation of what richard's wishes were with regards to his demise/burial place?

--- On Wed, 10/3/12, Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

From: Brittany Wynter <brittania97@... <mailto:brittania97%40yahoo.com> >
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Received: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 7:38 PM



Many Ricardians feel he should be returned to York where he himself made plans in 1483. Surely Richard's final wishes can and should be respected

________________________________

From: Neil Trump <neil.trump@... <mailto:neil.trump%40btinternet.com> >

To: " <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> " < <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >

Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 1:05 PM

Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?



....but there is also no reason why you can't set up a similar petition if you believe that Richard should stay in Leicester or anywhere else in fact.

Regards,

Neil

On 3 Oct 2012, at 20:22, Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>

> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark

> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no

> reason not to add your name.

>

> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British

> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.

>

> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*

> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.

>

> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.

>

> Best wishes

> Christine

>

> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:

> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772

> >

> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?

> >

> > Carol

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> --

> Best wishes

> Christine

>

> Christine Headley

> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos

>

>

Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?


________________________________
From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 

It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
reason not to add your name.

And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.

I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.

*Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.

Best wishes
Christine

On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
>
> Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Best wishes
Christine

Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos

Only if Henry VIII goes with him ....



________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2012, 22:46
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?

________________________________
From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 

It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
reason not to add your name.

And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.

I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.

*Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.

Best wishes
Christine

On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
>
> Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Best wishes
Christine

Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos

Those poor fish1 What did the Thames ever do to you?

--- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>
>  
>
> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> reason not to add your name.
>
> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
>
> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
>
> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> >
> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ooh, you guys, you guys! I have a great idea! [Provided the Grey Friars warrior is Richard III], we can petition to have a state funeral for him and an unceremonious kicking-out of two other monarchs to be specified at a later date! Gain one terrific monarch, lose two worthless chumps. Eh? Eh?

--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Only if Henry VIII goes with him ....
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2012, 22:46
> Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>  
> Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <mailto:christinelheadley%40yahoo.co.uk>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>
>  
>
> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> reason not to add your name.
>
> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
>
> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
>
> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> >
> > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> Christine Headley
> Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ive just heard about the petition to have Henry and Henry Jnr remains cast into the Thames..Goodo....I am all for this and where does one sign...but I am not in agreement with the Thames. Surely there is somewhere else....right out in the Atlantic at the deepest point or Antarctica would be more suitable. But not the lovely River Thames...eileen

--- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Those poor fish1 What did the Thames ever do to you?
>
> --- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@> wrote:
> >
> > Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> > Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> > Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> > reason not to add your name.
> >
> > And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> > government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
> >
> > I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> > trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
> >
> > *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> > >
> > > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> > >
> > > Carol
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Best wishes
> > Christine
> >
> > Christine Headley
> > Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I'm sure it wouldn't be the maddest e-petition out there!

But ultimately doomed.

C

On 04/10/2012 22:46, david rayner wrote:
> Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>
>
>
> It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> reason not to add your name.
>
> And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
>
> I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
>
> *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
>> It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
>>
>> Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
>>
>> Carol
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>


--
Best wishes
Christine

Christine Headley
Butterrow, Stroud, Glos

I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> Ive just heard about the petition to have Henry and Henry Jnr remains cast into the Thames..Goodo....I am all for this and where does one sign...but I am not in agreement with the Thames. Surely there is somewhere else....right out in the Atlantic at the deepest point or Antarctica would be more suitable. But not the lovely River Thames...eileen
>
> --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@> wrote:
> >
> > Those poor fish1 What did the Thames ever do to you?
> >
> > --- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> > > Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> > > Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> > > reason not to add your name.
> > >
> > > And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> > > government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
> > >
> > > I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> > > trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
> > >
> > > *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > > > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> > > >
> > > > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> > > >
> > > > Carol
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best wishes
> > > Christine
> > >
> > > Christine Headley
> > > Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Lol..what about the pointy bit at the top of Mount Everest..leave 'em balancing there....or ...we have a lot of pot holes in my village...The council cannot afford to sort them out apparently.....This would kills two birds with one stone, saving money and being green at the same time...eileen
--- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Ive just heard about the petition to have Henry and Henry Jnr remains cast into the Thames..Goodo....I am all for this and where does one sign...but I am not in agreement with the Thames. Surely there is somewhere else....right out in the Atlantic at the deepest point or Antarctica would be more suitable. But not the lovely River Thames...eileen
> >
> > --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Those poor fish1 What did the Thames ever do to you?
> > >
> > > --- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> > > > Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> > > > Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> > > > reason not to add your name.
> > > >
> > > > And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> > > > government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
> > > >
> > > > I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> > > > trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
> > > >
> > > > *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes
> > > > Christine
> > > >
> > > > On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > > > > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> > > > >
> > > > > Carol
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best wishes
> > > > Christine
> > > >
> > > > Christine Headley
> > > > Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I read this one to the missus*, and she ruffled up her brow and replied, "I don't know... an unstable king makes for an unstable roadway."

* As she could be in seven of fifty states, and possibly more as the U.S. gets its collective head unstuck from its collective other portion of the anatomy, but that takes a while to explain, so "the missus" it is, with hope for the future.

--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
>
> Lol..what about the pointy bit at the top of Mount Everest..leave 'em balancing there....or ...we have a lot of pot holes in my village...The council cannot afford to sort them out apparently.....This would kills two birds with one stone, saving money and being green at the same time...eileen
> --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@> wrote:
> >
> > I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.
> >
> > --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ive just heard about the petition to have Henry and Henry Jnr remains cast into the Thames..Goodo....I am all for this and where does one sign...but I am not in agreement with the Thames. Surely there is somewhere else....right out in the Atlantic at the deepest point or Antarctica would be more suitable. But not the lovely River Thames...eileen
> > >
> > > --- In , "mcjohn_wt_net" <mcjohn@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Those poor fish1 What did the Thames ever do to you?
> > > >
> > > > --- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Does that mean I can start an E-petition to have Henry VII disinterred and thrown in the Thames?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Christine Headley <christinelheadley@>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2012, 20:22
> > > > > Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >  
> > > > >
> > > > > It's as legitimate as any other e-petition. I know nothing about Mark
> > > > > Cousins - he may be a recent convert. If you agree with it, there's no
> > > > > reason not to add your name.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it's not *by* the British government, it's *to* the British
> > > > > government. DCMS is perceived as the recipient.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't somehow expect it to get the 100,000 signatures that can*
> > > > > trigger a debate among MPs, but that doesn't make it not worth signing.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Not even that works if MPs don't want to talk about whatever-it-is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best wishes
> > > > > Christine
> > > > >
> > > > > On 03/10/2012 19:36, justcarol67 wrote:
> > > > > > It seems that Her Majesty[s government, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, is circulating a petition for Richard to be buried in York: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38772
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone know anything about this petition, which so far has only 202 signatures and was created by someone named Mark Cousins? Is this a legitimate petition?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carol
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best wishes
> > > > > Christine
> > > > >
> > > > > Christine Headley
> > > > > Butterrow, Stroud, Glos
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.


Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false




________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 


<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

david rayner wrote:
>
> There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...
<snip URL>

Carol responds:

Thanks for that link. Serves him right for deposing Richard II and blocking the succession of the Mortimer heir. Of course, we'd have to open his tomb to see if the story is true.

Too bad it wasn't the River Soar. I could compose a bit of doggerel for the occasion:

Henry Four is no more.
His bones lie in the River Soar.

Internal rhyme and everything (though the meter is a little rough).

Carol, following her own suggestion about changing the subject line

how very interesting. thank you for sharing!

--- On Sat, 10/6/12, david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
To: "" <>
Received: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 5:17 PM
















 









There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...



http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false



________________________________

From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>

To:

Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48

Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?





 



<mcjohn@...> wrote:

>

> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.



Carol responds:



Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)



Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

Talking of which, did anybody watch the BBC's recent The Hollow Crown?  I mised Henry V and discovered I still don't like Henry IV (play, not the person) so ony watched part 1. I thought Richard II was brilliant apart from the St Sevbastian-like bit at the end.  It is, however, one of my favourites Shakespeare plays.
 
Liz


________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 22:17
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 

<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

Thanks to a dear friend, who recorded them for me, I have these. But haven't had time to view yet.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:47 AM
Subject: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 
Talking of which, did anybody watch the BBC's recent The Hollow Crown?  I mised Henry V and discovered I still don't like Henry IV (play, not the person) so ony watched part 1. I thought Richard II was brilliant apart from the St Sevbastian-like bit at the end.  It is, however, one of my favourites Shakespeare plays.
 
Liz

________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 22:17
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 

<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

I liked the whole sequence, with severe reservations.  Principally, the cuts made to *all* the plays seemed odd and even counter-intuitive.  For instance, 'Richard II' was perhaps the most successful but we lost the whole Duchess of Gloucester sub-plot, which explains why Richard is so compromised in the first place.

I liked the 'Henry V' least, and the 'Henry IVs' were a mixture of inspired moments and missed opportunities.  I'm especially fond of those plays.  They're my favourite Shakespeares behind 'Antony & Cleopatra', and easily as profound, human and humane as anything in 'Hamlet' or 'Lear'.

Jonathan




________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2012, 15:47
Subject: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 
Talking of which, did anybody watch the BBC's recent The Hollow Crown?  I mised Henry V and discovered I still don't like Henry IV (play, not the person) so ony watched part 1. I thought Richard II was brilliant apart from the St Sevbastian-like bit at the end.  It is, however, one of my favourites Shakespeare plays.
 
Liz

________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 22:17
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 

<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

We did Richard II and Antony & Cleopatra for A level.  We did Richard first and every single one of us in the class felt that Antony & Cleopatra suffered badly for being read immediately after - at least in the beginning.  By the end I think we all liked it but it was so different to Richard that it led to a couple of classes devoted purely to the "did Will write them after all?" debate. 



________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2012, 18:10
Subject: Re: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
I liked the whole sequence, with severe reservations.  Principally, the cuts made to *all* the plays seemed odd and even counter-intuitive.  For instance, 'Richard II' was perhaps the most successful but we lost the whole Duchess of Gloucester sub-plot, which explains why Richard is so compromised in the first place.

I liked the 'Henry V' least, and the 'Henry IVs' were a mixture of inspired moments and missed opportunities.  I'm especially fond of those plays.  They're my favourite Shakespeares behind 'Antony & Cleopatra', and easily as profound, human and humane as anything in 'Hamlet' or 'Lear'.

Jonathan

________________________________
From: liz williams <mailto:ferrymansdaughter%40btinternet.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2012, 15:47
Subject: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 
Talking of which, did anybody watch the BBC's recent The Hollow Crown?  I mised Henry V and discovered I still don't like Henry IV (play, not the person) so ony watched part 1. I thought Richard II was brilliant apart from the St Sevbastian-like bit at the end.  It is, however, one of my favourites Shakespeare plays.
 
Liz

________________________________
From: david rayner <mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 22:17
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 

<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

Ben Wishaw who played Richard II [which I also loved] is the new Q in Skyfall!
Paul

On 7 Oct 2012, at 17:02, Judy Thomson wrote:

> Thanks to a dear friend, who recorded them for me, I have these. But haven't had time to view yet.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:47 AM
> Subject: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>
>
> Talking of which, did anybody watch the BBC's recent The Hollow Crown? I mised Henry V and discovered I still don't like Henry IV (play, not the person) so ony watched part 1. I thought Richard II was brilliant apart from the St Sevbastian-like bit at the end. It is, however, one of my favourites Shakespeare plays.
>
> Liz
>
> ________________________________
> From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 22:17
> Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>
> There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...
>
> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false
>
> ________________________________
> From: justcarol67 <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
> Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?
>
>
>
> <mcjohn@...> wrote:
>>
>> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)
>
> Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Henry IV suffered from having different actors playing Henry in Richard II, & the Henry productions. The King seemed to have aged about 40 years between the plays, despite the fact that they're set only 4 years apart. I know he was ill, but...

Haven't got round to watching HV yet.


________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2012, 18:10
Subject: Re: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 
I liked the whole sequence, with severe reservations.  Principally, the cuts made to *all* the plays seemed odd and even counter-intuitive.  For instance, 'Richard II' was perhaps the most successful but we lost the whole Duchess of Gloucester sub-plot, which explains why Richard is so compromised in the first place.

I liked the 'Henry V' least, and the 'Henry IVs' were a mixture of inspired moments and missed opportunities.  I'm especially fond of those plays.  They're my favourite Shakespeares behind 'Antony & Cleopatra', and easily as profound, human and humane as anything in 'Hamlet' or 'Lear'.

Jonathan

________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 7 October 2012, 15:47
Subject: The Hollow Crown - was E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?


 
Talking of which, did anybody watch the BBC's recent The Hollow Crown?  I mised Henry V and discovered I still don't like Henry IV (play, not the person) so ony watched part 1. I thought Richard II was brilliant apart from the St Sevbastian-like bit at the end.  It is, however, one of my favourites Shakespeare plays.
 
Liz

________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 22:17
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 
There's a story that Henry IV is already down there, so they'd be keeping good company...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R80LAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA162&lpg=RA1-PA162&dq=body+of+henry+IV+thames&source=bl&ots=8dhQ3isWMh&sig=4fZdYfryKgVFk30nnlufz_pAVEA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WZ5wUPGVM6m-0QWqs4CwAg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=body%20of%20henry%20IV%20thames&f=false

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 1:48
Subject: Re: E-petition to the British government to bury Richard in York?

 

<mcjohn@...> wrote:
>
> I would like to propose that active volcanoes and the joints of opposing tectonic plates also be considered, along with deserts regularly scoured by strong sand-laden winds and alkali flats.

Carol responds:

Uh oh. We'd better change the subject line for this thread. Otherwise, some new arrival will think that you're proposing, say, the Mariana Trench as a burial place for Richard! (Of course, I know you meant for the Henrys. The La Brea Tar Pits would work for those two if only they were a few thousand miles closer to England.)

Carol, leaving the subject line as it is for the moment so her point will be clear

Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?

Richard G

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that link. Serves him right for deposing Richard II and
> blocking the succession of the Mortimer heir. Of course, we'd have to
> open his tomb to see if the story is true.

There were at least 4 such attempts:

1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.

Brian W.

--- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?
>
> Richard G
>
>

Richard G wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?

Brian responded:
>
> There were at least 4 such attempts:
>
> 1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
> 2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
> 3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
> 4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.
>
Carol asks:

I thought that Edmund Earl of Cambridge, Richard III's paternal grandfather, who was married to Anne Mortimer, sister of the two boys, started a rebellion in support of his young brother-in-law and was executed by Henry IV for treason. Was that one of these rebellions? And can you refresh my memory as to what Owain (sp?) Glyndwr's involvement and the identity of Constance of York?

Carol

RICHARD of Cambridge - the 1415 Southampton plot under Henry V.

----- Original Message -----
From: justcarol67
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: Richard II's successor (The Henrys in the Thames (WAS: Richard in York))



Richard G wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?

Brian responded:
>
> There were at least 4 such attempts:
>
> 1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
> 2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
> 3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
> 4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.
>
Carol asks:

I thought that Edmund Earl of Cambridge, Richard III's paternal grandfather, who was married to Anne Mortimer, sister of the two boys, started a rebellion in support of his young brother-in-law and was executed by Henry IV for treason. Was that one of these rebellions? And can you refresh my memory as to what Owain (sp?) Glyndwr's involvement and the identity of Constance of York?

Carol

I was thinking more of September/October 1399, before Bolingbroke was crowned, or early 1400 after Richard died. By 1403 he was well entrenched on the throne. I suppose the fact that the Mortimer heir was a child, and that his claim was through the female line, would have counted against anyone saying nay to Bolingbroke.

Richard G

--- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> There were at least 4 such attempts:
>
> 1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
> 2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
> 3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
> 4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.
>
> Brian W.
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?
> >
> > Richard G
> >
> >
>

Remember that Bolingbroke originally claimed that his ancestor Edmund Crouchback had been the eldest son, but was set aside due to his deformity. This shows that he very much feared the heir general (Mortimer) being given precedence; and after all the Lancastrians claimed the French throne as heirs general in contravention of the Salic law. 


________________________________
From: Richard <RSG_Corris@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 19:02
Subject: Re: Richard II's successor (The Henrys in the Thames (WAS: Richard in York))


 
I was thinking more of September/October 1399, before Bolingbroke was crowned, or early 1400 after Richard died. By 1403 he was well entrenched on the throne. I suppose the fact that the Mortimer heir was a child, and that his claim was through the female line, would have counted against anyone saying nay to Bolingbroke.

Richard G

--- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> There were at least 4 such attempts:
>
> 1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
> 2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
> 3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
> 4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.
>
> Brian W.
>
> --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?
> >
> > Richard G
> >
> >
>

Carol earlier:
>
> I thought that Edmund Earl of Cambridge, Richard III's paternal grandfather, who was married to Anne Mortimer, sister of the two boys, started a rebellion in support of his young brother-in-law and was executed by Henry IV for treason. Was that one of these rebellions? And can you refresh my memory as to what Owain (sp?) Glyndwr's involvement and the identity of Constance of York?

"Stephen Lark" responded:
>
> RICHARD of Cambridge - the 1415 Southampton plot under Henry V.

Carol again:

Yes, sorry. Richard, not Edmund, and Henry V, not IV. That's what I get for trusting my memory. But you didn't answer my questions. Can you provide any *details*? The Wikipedia entry is skimpy, and Shakespeare (the only printed "source" I have access to for this period) is notoriously unreliable.

By the way, Wikipedia says that Edmund Mortimer, Earl of March, informed Henry of the plot to put *him* (Mortimer) on the throne. Was he saving his own skin at the expense of his fellow conspirators or was he genuinely loyal to Henry? (Obviously, any discussion of historical people's motives has to be based on speculation, but what do you think and why?)

Carol

Richard Earl of Cambridge was executed following the Southampton Plot, which attempted, rather clumsily, to put his bro-in-law, March on the throne.

Glyndwr captured Sir Edmund Mortimer in 1402. Mortimer defected because Bolingbroke refused to ransom him, and thereafter, until Mortimer's death, their common policy was to put either March (Mortimer's nephew) or Mortimer himself on the English throne.

Constance of York was Edmund of Langley's daughter sister to both Edward, 2nd Duke of York and Richard, Earl of Cambridge. (Plug) My novel _Within the Fetterlock_is all about her (/plug)

The situation prior to 1399 is hazy, not least because Bolingbroke deliberately clouded things. It is stated in at least one Chronicle that Roger Mortimer, Earl of March, was declared heir to the throne in Parliament. The author of the Westminster Chronicle, writing circa 1395,states March to be heir in a very matter-of-fact way. On the other hand Ian Mortimer claims that by 1399 Richard II had appointed Edmund of Langley heir, with reversion to Langley's eldest son, Edward. (There is some supporting evidence that Richard intended Edward of York to succeed him.) Of course by this time Roger Mortimer was ded, his son was a young child and Bolingbroke was in exile, effectively attainted.

Brian W.

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> Richard G wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?
>
> Brian responded:
> >
> > There were at least 4 such attempts:
> >
> > 1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
> > 2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
> > 3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
> > 4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.
> >
> Carol asks:
>
> I thought that Edmund Earl of Cambridge, Richard III's paternal grandfather, who was married to Anne Mortimer, sister of the two boys, started a rebellion in support of his young brother-in-law and was executed by Henry IV for treason. Was that one of these rebellions? And can you refresh my memory as to what Owain (sp?) Glyndwr's involvement and the identity of Constance of York?
>
> Carol
>

Yes, Constance was Cambridge's sister while he had been married to Anne, sister of Edmund Mortimer.

T.B.Pugh wrote "Henry V and the Southampton Plot", which is briefly explained here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southampton_Plot
I have borrowed it and recommend it. Pugh is from Wales and explains that extra dimension to the plot. Mortimer probably liked having a head - his title Earl of March passed to his nephew (Edward IV) - but he was connected to the Glyndower rebellion a decade earlier.

----- Original Message -----
From: justcarol67
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: Richard II's successor (The Henrys in the Thames (WAS: Richard in York))




Carol earlier:
>
> I thought that Edmund Earl of Cambridge, Richard III's paternal grandfather, who was married to Anne Mortimer, sister of the two boys, started a rebellion in support of his young brother-in-law and was executed by Henry IV for treason. Was that one of these rebellions? And can you refresh my memory as to what Owain (sp?) Glyndwr's involvement and the identity of Constance of York?

"Stephen Lark" responded:
>
> RICHARD of Cambridge - the 1415 Southampton plot under Henry V.

Carol again:

Yes, sorry. Richard, not Edmund, and Henry V, not IV. That's what I get for trusting my memory. But you didn't answer my questions. Can you provide any *details*? The Wikipedia entry is skimpy, and Shakespeare (the only printed "source" I have access to for this period) is notoriously unreliable.

By the way, Wikipedia says that Edmund Mortimer, Earl of March, informed Henry of the plot to put *him* (Mortimer) on the throne. Was he saving his own skin at the expense of his fellow conspirators or was he genuinely loyal to Henry? (Obviously, any discussion of historical people's motives has to be based on speculation, but what do you think and why?)

Carol

Quite, David. Gaunt was junior to Antwerp, thus Bolingbroke claimed that his maternal ancestor was senior to Edward I. By this, only descendants of Blanche, Duchess of Lancaster in suo jure, could claim to be true Lancastrians.
Henry IV, his full siblings and their descendants fitted this description and their legitimate male line expired in 1471. Gaunt's descendants by his later wives - the Beauforts - could not. Bolingbroke's use of his mother justified the Mortimer descent (part-female line) being of use, although the Langley descent was all-male.
From 1471, the true Lancastrian heirs (through Henry IV's sisters) lived in Portugal.

--- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Remember that Bolingbroke originally claimed that his ancestor Edmund Crouchback had been the eldest son, but was set aside due to his deformity. This shows that he very much feared the heir general (Mortimer) being given precedence; and after all the Lancastrians claimed the French throne as heirs general in contravention of the Salic law. 
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard <RSG_Corris@...>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 19:02
> Subject: Re: Richard II's successor (The Henrys in the Thames (WAS: Richard in York))
>
>
>  
> I was thinking more of September/October 1399, before Bolingbroke was crowned, or early 1400 after Richard died. By 1403 he was well entrenched on the throne. I suppose the fact that the Mortimer heir was a child, and that his claim was through the female line, would have counted against anyone saying nay to Bolingbroke.
>
> Richard G
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > There were at least 4 such attempts:
> >
> > 1. The Percy rising of 1403, which led to the Batle of Shrewsbury.
> > 2. Constance of York's attempted defection to Glyndwr, taking the Mortimer boys with her (Feb. 1405).
> > 3. Following on 2., the tripartite indenture between Northumberland, Glyndwr and Edmund Mortimer which would have divided the realm between them, but given the crown to Edmund Mortimer, the elder, uncle to the two boys who were (due to the failure of attempt #2) still prisoners of Henry IV.
> > 4. The Southampton Plot of 1415.
> >
> > Brian W.
> >
> > --- In , "Richard" <RSG_Corris@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know if there were any contemporary attempts to put Mortimer on the throne after Richard II's death was confirmed, or was it accepted that Bolingbroke's coup d'etat was irreversible ?
> > >
> > > Richard G
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>