Amor from the period of R3

I have seen the funeral display of the Black Prince and wonder if this is typical finery of royalty warn in battle during this period.
What would R3 have warn during Bosworth and do we know if any of his armor has survived over the years.
If he was such a high value target why did his royal guard/ knights allow him to be taken, all other contempary battles do not mention
the leaders directly engaging in battle rather taking overall leadership from a vantage point.richard3 was neither new in battle nor had an untrained army, only so much can be allowed by disloyalty, though at the battle of Wakefield some of his knights were either very stupid or naive allowing themselves to fall into a scissor attack cutting off any chance of retreat back to the castle.

It always struck me how terribly wrong it was for an active King to personally engage in hand to hand, to the death combat, along side his fellow army members. I understand he was surrounded for the most part by the men of his household who also died along side him. But Henry was not engaged in actual combat, was he? I know Richard was a trained field warrior, but perhaps he took this "former job" too far, and didn't actually have to fight to die. Seems so sadly archaic&what are the thoughts of other Forum members&..

He actually wasn't alone in taking the job seriously: Charle the Bold took
command and died in battle; so did James IV of Scotland at Flodden. More
fortunate was Fernando of Aragon (born just a few months before Richard),
as well as his father Juan II of Aragon.

Maria
ejbronte@...


On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:

> It always struck me how terribly wrong it was for an active King to
> personally engage in hand to hand, to the death combat, along side his
> fellow army members. I understand he was surrounded for the most part by
> the men of his household who also died along side him. But Henry was not
> engaged in actual combat, was he? I know Richard was a trained field
> warrior, but perhaps he took this "former job" too far, and didn't
> actually have to fight to die. Seems so sadly archaicýwhat are the
> thoughts of other Forum membersý..
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

The armour on display in Canterbury Cathedral are copies...although they do have some of the actual stuff.....Whether this would have been the type worn in battle I do not know..I did have the pleasure of living in Canterbury for 4 years....absolutely loved the place.

But George...Richard was not at the battle of Wakefield...that was his father Richard Duke of York and Edmund his older brother...both sadly killed....
Eileen



--- In , "gbutterf1" <gbutterf1@...> wrote:
>
> I have seen the funeral display of the Black Prince and wonder if this is typical finery of royalty warn in battle during this period.
> What would R3 have warn during Bosworth and do we know if any of his armor has survived over the years.
> If he was such a high value target why did his royal guard/ knights allow him to be taken, all other contempary battles do not mention
> the leaders directly engaging in battle rather taking overall leadership from a vantage point.richard3 was neither new in battle nor had an untrained army, only so much can be allowed by disloyalty, though at the battle of Wakefield some of his knights were either very stupid or naive allowing themselves to fall into a scissor attack cutting off any chance of retreat back to the castle.
>

Carol...probably have to take into consideration Richard's state of mind at the time of Bosworth. He had recently lost his wife and shortly before that his small son....maybe he just reached the stage where he was going to sort out the Tudor threat once and for all....
My understanding is he spotted Henry, in the distance, and that was that...the last heroic charge...nearly accomplished it too....but for the Stanleys treachery and Northumberland standing by doing nothing...something he paid dearly for a few years later.

Tudor even had one of the Stanley brothers executed later as well...That is gratitude for you...Eileen

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> It always struck me how terribly wrong it was for an active King to personally engage in hand to hand, to the death combat, along side his fellow army members. I understand he was surrounded for the most part by the men of his household who also died along side him. But Henry was not engaged in actual combat, was he? I know Richard was a trained field warrior, but perhaps he took this "former job" too far, and didn't actually have to fight to die. Seems so sadly archaic…what are the thoughts of other Forum members…..
>

Both facts I am aware of however my question was what was worn, and
that some of Richards knights had a prior history of stupidity ( given 20/20 hindsight)
Has any of r3s armor survived and what do contempary accounts say would be warn
Wakefield was given as an example of battle tactics or in this and Bosworth lack of them
Not as a attribute to Richard 3
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> The armour on display in Canterbury Cathedral are copies...although they do have some of the actual stuff.....Whether this would have been the type worn in battle I do not know..I did have the pleasure of living in Canterbury for 4 years....absolutely loved the place.
>
> But George...Richard was not at the battle of Wakefield...that was his father Richard Duke of York and Edmund his older brother...both sadly killed....
> Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , "gbutterf1" <gbutterf1@> wrote:
> >
> > I have seen the funeral display of the Black Prince and wonder if this is typical finery of royalty warn in battle during this period.
> > What would R3 have warn during Bosworth and do we know if any of his armor has survived over the years.
> > If he was such a high value target why did his royal guard/ knights allow him to be taken, all other contempary battles do not mention
> > the leaders directly engaging in battle rather taking overall leadership from a vantage point.richard3 was neither new in battle nor had an untrained army, only so much can be allowed by disloyalty, though at the battle of Wakefield some of his knights were either very stupid or naive allowing themselves to fall into a scissor attack cutting off any chance of retreat back to the castle.
> >
>

Crecy was in 1346, so fashions in armour must have changed, not least
because weapons did. Edward the Black Prince was born in 1330 and died
in 1376.

Best wishes
Christine

On 14/10/2012 22:02, EileenB wrote:
> The armour on display in Canterbury Cathedral are copies...although they do have some of the actual stuff.....Whether this would have been the type worn in battle I do not know..I did have the pleasure of living in Canterbury for 4 years....absolutely loved the place.
>
> But George...Richard was not at the battle of Wakefield...that was his father Richard Duke of York and Edmund his older brother...both sadly killed....
> Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , "gbutterf1" <gbutterf1@...> wrote:
>> I have seen the funeral display of the Black Prince and wonder if this is typical finery of royalty warn in battle during this period.
>> What would R3 have warn during Bosworth and do we know if any of his armor has survived over the years.
>> If he was such a high value target why did his royal guard/ knights allow him to be taken, all other contempary battles do not mention
>> the leaders directly engaging in battle rather taking overall leadership from a vantage point.richard3 was neither new in battle nor had an untrained army, only so much can be allowed by disloyalty, though at the battle of Wakefield some of his knights were either very stupid or naive allowing themselves to fall into a scissor attack cutting off any chance of retreat back to the castle.