FW: Interesting story from News24
FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 15:44:54
Hi, All -
I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
click on the link to go to the website.
Johanne
From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
jltournier60@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
To: ; jltournier60@...
Subject: Interesting story from News24
<http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
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<http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
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Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
<http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
believe they are close to making an identification.
Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
in battle.
"The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
Inaccurate maps
"Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
battle in 1485.
However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
river.
For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
to have been buried.
The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
"Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
Simple grave
After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
grave.
"We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
human bio-archaeology at the university.
"It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
said.
Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
"He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
"However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
found the right individual."
Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
along the female line.
Reputation
While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
children.
Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
"Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
"I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
ever know for sure one way or the other."
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
<http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
<http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
refer-a-friend
I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
click on the link to go to the website.
Johanne
From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
jltournier60@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
To: ; jltournier60@...
Subject: Interesting story from News24
<http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
<http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
<http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
<http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
<http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
believe they are close to making an identification.
Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
in battle.
"The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
Inaccurate maps
"Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
battle in 1485.
However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
river.
For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
to have been buried.
The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
"Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
Simple grave
After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
grave.
"We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
human bio-archaeology at the university.
"It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
said.
Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
"He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
"However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
found the right individual."
Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
along the female line.
Reputation
While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
children.
Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
"Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
"I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
ever know for sure one way or the other."
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
<http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
<http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
refer-a-friend
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 17:14:04
Thanks for that link Joanne...interesting....whew...I don't know if I am ready to see any photos yet...I am in two minds...I expect I will...but it will be like seeing the remains of an old friend....silly really..just me. I expect eventually there will be books and articles written which will have photos. And of course I will want to read everything I can on this subject. Wow....Eileen
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@...
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: ; jltournier60@...
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@...
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: ; jltournier60@...
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 17:26:57
This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester. Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Johanne Tournier
To:
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
Hi, All -
I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
click on the link to go to the website.
Johanne
From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
jltournier60@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
To: ; jltournier60@...
Subject: Interesting story from News24
<http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
<http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
<http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
<http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
<http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
believe they are close to making an identification.
Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
in battle.
"The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
Inaccurate maps
"Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
battle in 1485.
However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
river.
For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
to have been buried.
The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
"Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
Simple grave
After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
grave.
"We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
human bio-archaeology at the university.
"It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
said.
Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
"He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
"However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
found the right individual."
Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
along the female line.
Reputation
While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
children.
Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
"Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
"I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
ever know for sure one way or the other."
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
<http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
<http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
refer-a-friend
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Johanne Tournier
To:
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
Hi, All -
I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
click on the link to go to the website.
Johanne
From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
jltournier60@...
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
To: ; jltournier60@...
Subject: Interesting story from News24
<http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
<http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
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<http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
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Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
<http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
believe they are close to making an identification.
Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
in battle.
"The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
Inaccurate maps
"Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
battle in 1485.
However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
river.
For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
to have been buried.
The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
"Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
Simple grave
After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
grave.
"We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
human bio-archaeology at the university.
"It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
said.
Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
"He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
"However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
found the right individual."
Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
along the female line.
Reputation
While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
children.
Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
"Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
"I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
ever know for sure one way or the other."
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
<http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
<http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
refer-a-friend
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 17:38:27
Crickey....this is so sad......
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester. Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Johanne Tournier
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
> From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@...
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: ; jltournier60@...
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , "Annette Carson" <email@...> wrote:
>
> This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester. Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> Regards, Annette
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Johanne Tournier
> To:
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
> From: feedback@... [mailto:feedback@...] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@...
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: ; jltournier60@...
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 17:47:03
Thank you, Annette -
I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
bones those are.)
I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
To:
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Johanne Tournier
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
Hi, All -
I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
click on the link to go to the website.
Johanne
From: feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
[mailto:feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@...
<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
Subject: Interesting story from News24
<http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
<http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
<http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
<http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
<http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
believe they are close to making an identification.
Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
in battle.
"The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
Inaccurate maps
"Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
battle in 1485.
However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
river.
For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
to have been buried.
The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
"Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
Simple grave
After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
grave.
"We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
human bio-archaeology at the university.
"It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
said.
Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
"He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
"However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
found the right individual."
Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
along the female line.
Reputation
While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
children.
Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
"Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
"I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
ever know for sure one way or the other."
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
<http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
<http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
refer-a-friend
I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
bones those are.)
I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
To:
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
Regards, Annette
----- Original Message -----
From: Johanne Tournier
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
Hi, All -
I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
click on the link to go to the website.
Johanne
From: feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
[mailto:feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@...
<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
Subject: Interesting story from News24
<http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
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Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
<http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
believe they are close to making an identification.
Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
in battle.
"The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
Inaccurate maps
"Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
battle in 1485.
However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
river.
For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
to have been buried.
The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
"Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
Simple grave
After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
grave.
"We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
human bio-archaeology at the university.
"It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
said.
Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
"He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
"However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
found the right individual."
Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
along the female line.
Reputation
While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
children.
Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
"Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
"I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
ever know for sure one way or the other."
<http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
<http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
<http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
refer-a-friend
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 17:56:27
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Annette -
>
>
>
> I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
> the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
> misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
> bones those are.)
>
>
>
> I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
> and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
> honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
> that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
> necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
>
>
> This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
> Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
> one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Johanne Tournier
> To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
> From: feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
> [mailto:feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@...
> <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Annette -
>
>
>
> I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
> the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
> misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
> bones those are.)
>
>
>
> I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
> and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
> honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
> that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
> necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
>
>
> This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
> Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
> one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Johanne Tournier
> To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
> From: feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
> [mailto:feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@...
> <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 18:51:05
Eileen you are not the only one who bursts into tears about some of the things that happened to Richard, I think many of Richard's supporters do even if they won't admit it
God Bless Richard and Family
Christine
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 17:56
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Annette -
>
>
>
> I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
> the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
> misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
> bones those are.)
>
>
>
> I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
> and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
> honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
> that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
> necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
>
>
> This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
> Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
> one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Johanne Tournier
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
> From: feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
> [mailto:feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@...
> <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com/> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za/> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com/>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com/> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
God Bless Richard and Family
Christine
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 17:56
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you, Annette -
>
>
>
> I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
> the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
> misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
> bones those are.)
>
>
>
> I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
> and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
> honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
> that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
> necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
>
>
>
> This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
> Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
> one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> Regards, Annette
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Johanne Tournier
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Hi, All -
>
> I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> click on the link to go to the website.
>
> Johanne
>
> From: feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
> [mailto:feedback@... <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
> jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@...
> <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> Subject: Interesting story from News24
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
>
> News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> <http://www.fin24.com/> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za/> Lifestyle
> Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com/>
> isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com/> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
>
> Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
>
> Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
>
> 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
>
> London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
>
> More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> believe they are close to making an identification.
>
> Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> in battle.
>
> "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
>
> The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
>
> Inaccurate maps
>
> "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
>
> Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> battle in 1485.
>
> However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> river.
>
> For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> to have been buried.
>
> The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
>
> "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
>
> When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
>
> Simple grave
>
> After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> grave.
>
> "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> human bio-archaeology at the university.
>
> "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> said.
>
> Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
>
> "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
>
> "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> found the right individual."
>
> Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> along the female line.
>
> Reputation
>
> While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> children.
>
> Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
>
> "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
>
> "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> ever know for sure one way or the other."
>
> <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
>
> <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
>
> <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> refer-a-friend
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 19:00:55
And God bless you too Christine...for your remembrance of Richard and his family...I was in Waterstones today browsing...two new books out touching on this period....still the same old same old....Thank God for both the Forum and the Society....We are a minority but we grow....Eileen
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen you are not the only one who bursts into tears about some of the things that happened to Richard, I think many of Richard's supporters do even if they won't admit it
>
> God Bless Richard and Family
> Christine
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 17:56
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
> Â
>
> Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
>
> Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving him beneath a carpark.
>
> In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Annette -
> >
> >
> >
> > I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
> > the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
> > misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
> > bones those are.)
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
> > and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
> > honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
> > that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
> > necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
> >
> >
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
> > Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
> > one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Johanne Tournier
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> > Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
> >
> > Hi, All -
> >
> > I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> > yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> > they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> > interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> > click on the link to go to the website.
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > From: feedback@ <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
> > [mailto:feedback@ <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
> > jltournier60@ <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@
> > <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Interesting story from News24
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
> >
> > News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> > <http://www.fin24.com/> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za/> Lifestyle
> > Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> > <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> > <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com/>
> > isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com/> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> > Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
> >
> > Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> > <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
> >
> > Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> > study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> > drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> > 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
> >
> > 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
> >
> > London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> > see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> > Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
> >
> > More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> > by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> > believe they are close to making an identification.
> >
> > Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> > tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> > could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> > in battle.
> >
> > "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> > the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> > moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
> >
> > The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
> >
> > Inaccurate maps
> >
> > "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> > fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
> >
> > Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> > the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> > battle in 1485.
> >
> > However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> > dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> > river.
> >
> > For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> > but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> > after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> > to have been buried.
> >
> > The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> > masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
> >
> > "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> > actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> > University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
> >
> > When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> > what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
> >
> > Simple grave
> >
> > After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> > the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> > grave.
> >
> > "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> > after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> > human bio-archaeology at the university.
> >
> > "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> > said.
> >
> > Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> > injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
> >
> > "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> > know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
> >
> > "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> > have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> > found the right individual."
> >
> > Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> > because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> > along the female line.
> >
> > Reputation
> >
> > While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> > only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> > children.
> >
> > Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> > king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> > a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
> >
> > "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> > doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> > portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
> >
> > "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> > ever know for sure one way or the other."
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> > 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> > this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> > refer-a-friend
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Eileen you are not the only one who bursts into tears about some of the things that happened to Richard, I think many of Richard's supporters do even if they won't admit it
>
> God Bless Richard and Family
> Christine
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 17:56
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
> Â
>
> Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
>
> Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving him beneath a carpark.
>
> In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Annette -
> >
> >
> >
> > I did wonder about that, but the article certainly implied that that was
> > the skeleton that had been unearthed. I apologize for unintentionally
> > misleading or upsetting anyone here. (And I can't help but wonder whose
> > bones those are.)
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree though with Carol and Eileen about a mixed desire to see the bones
> > and sadness at the idea of seeing them exposed. But I think it's one way to
> > honour him and be part of the process of laying him to rest in the manner
> > that he deserves. In other words, looking at the pictures does not
> > necessarily have to reflect a ghoulish impulse.
> >
> >
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Annette Carson
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:27 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This photograph is not, repeat NOT from the Greyfriars dig at Leicester.
> > Obviously the article would like readers to think it is. Rest assured, no
> > one will ever see our friend from the Greyfriars in this state.
> > Regards, Annette
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Johanne Tournier
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:44 PM
> > Subject: FW: Interesting story from News24
> >
> > Hi, All -
> >
> > I sent the below article from the News24 website, but it hasn't shown up
> > yet through the list, so here goes one more time! I notice that, unusually,
> > they sent most if not all of the text of the article - but if you are
> > interested in seeing a photo of the bones of the warrior knight, please
> > click on the link to go to the website.
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > From: feedback@ <mailto:feedback%40news24.com>
> > [mailto:feedback@ <mailto:feedback%40news24.com> ] On Behalf Of
> > jltournier60@ <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:48 AM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ; jltournier60@
> > <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Interesting story from News24
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/images/news24_topbanner.jpg>
> >
> > News Opinion <http://www.news24.com/Opinions> Business
> > <http://www.fin24.com/> Sport <http://www.sport24.co.za/> Lifestyle
> > Multimedia <http://www.news24.com/Multimedia> Special Reports
> > <http://www.news24.com/SpecialReports> MyNews
> > <http://www.news24.com/MyNews24> Afrikaans <http://afrikaans.news24.com/>
> > isiZulu <http://isizulu.news24.com/> Jobs <http://www.news24.com/Jobs/>
> > Property <http://www.news24.com/Property/>
> >
> > Sent By: Johanne Tournier has sent you a link to a story on
> > <http://www.news24.com/> News24.com
> >
> > Message:Hi, All - This article has a photgraph of the bones laid out for
> > study, the first picture I've seen of the actual bones (as opposed to a
> > drawing or artist's conception, that is). Johanne
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> > 1015> Bones hold clue to King Richard III
> >
> > 2012/10/15 09:42:47 AM
> >
> > London - Archaeologists and one hopeful relative are anxiously waiting to
> > see if a skeleton dug up from a hole in a car park in the English city of
> > Leicester is the remains of the much-maligned King Richard III.
> >
> > More than five centuries after he was killed in the Battle of Bosworth Field
> > by the armies of Henry Tudor, who later became King Henry VII, scientists
> > believe they are close to making an identification.
> >
> > Michael Ibsen, 55, a 17th generation nephew of the king, will have his DNA
> > tested against the remains found in the humblest of settings, but which
> > could just prove to be the burial place of the last English monarch to fall
> > in battle.
> >
> > "The only line that they were able to follow through to current times was
> > the line that leads to my mother," said Ibsen, who was born in Canada and
> > moved to London 27 years ago where he works as a carpenter.
> >
> > The DNA testing is expected to be completed by December at the earliest.
> >
> > Inaccurate maps
> >
> > "Obviously it would be a great disappointment if there is no DNA match, but
> > fingers crossed. We'll wait and see," he added.
> >
> > Experts have long thought that Richard III was laid to rest in Leicester in
> > the church of the Franciscan Friary, or Greyfriars, after he was killed in
> > battle in 1485.
> >
> > However, stories dating to the 17th Century said that Richard's remains were
> > dug up after the friary was dissolved and were then tossed into a local
> > river.
> >
> > For years, inaccurate maps and conflicting local legends obscured the trail,
> > but this year archaeologists were finally able to narrow down the search
> > after they found clues to the location of the church where Richard is said
> > to have been buried.
> >
> > The cloisters leading to the middle of the church was one giveaway, while a
> > masonry bench indicated a chapter house.
> >
> > "Many people hadn't really thought too much about whether the remains could
> > actually still be here after all," said Richard Buckley, co-director of
> > University of Leicester's Archaeological Services.
> >
> > When Buckley's team descended into the trenches under the car park's tarmac,
> > what they found was beyond their wildest dreams.
> >
> > Simple grave
> >
> > After only three weeks on site, a short stint compared to most excavations,
> > the archaeologists found the bones of an adult man lying in a plain, simple
> > grave.
> >
> > "We can tell from the state of the skeleton that the burial was made shortly
> > after death, and the body was not moved later," said Jo Appleby, lecturer in
> > human bio-archaeology at the university.
> >
> > "It seems to have been a careful burial, but not an elaborate one," she
> > said.
> >
> > Scientists have already established that the skeleton showed at least two
> > injuries on the skull, a wound on the back and curvature of the spine.
> >
> > "He has what seems to be injuries consistent with a death in battle which we
> > know is what happened to Richard," Appleby said.
> >
> > "However it's a burial in a medieval church, and medieval churches usually
> > have multiple burials in them so it is always possible that we have not
> > found the right individual."
> >
> > Time has been of the essence in solving the puzzle surrounding Richard,
> > because the mitochondrial DNA that will be used for testing is only passed
> > along the female line.
> >
> > Reputation
> >
> > While Ibsen and his brother have the DNA link desired by archaeologists,
> > only their sister could pass it on to an 18th generation, and she has no
> > children.
> >
> > Michael Ibsen hopes that identification of the king's remains could help the
> > king to rehabilitate his reputation. After all, Shakespeare portrayed him as
> > a power-obsessed hunchback who murdered his nephews to steal the crown.
> >
> > "Let's face it, one would rather be related to somebody who is famous for
> > doing nice things rather than being a barbaric murderer, which is how he is
> > portrayed in Shakespeare," Ibsen said.
> >
> > "I personally think he has been badly portrayed, but I don't think we'll
> > ever know for sure one way or the other."
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Bones-hold-clue-to-King-Richard-III-2012
> > 1015> Click here to read the rest of the story...
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/images/subscribe.png>
> >
> > <http://www.news24.com/Newsletters/Signup> Click here to find out about
> > this and other News24 newsletters, or <http://www.news24.com/>
> > refer-a-friend
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-15 21:00:42
Hi, Eileen -
I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply about
Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here - do
care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of caring
deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here on
earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
Take care,
Johanne
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
To:
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have
always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is
crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been
dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply about
Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here - do
care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of caring
deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here on
earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
Take care,
Johanne
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
To:
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have
always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is
crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been
dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-16 10:18:25
Hi Johanne, thank you for this message to Eileen, I too believe in the after life and that Richard is happy with his family.
I am also sure he is with us in our work for him.
I feel he has been with me a long time and he is welcome in my life and home anytime.
God Bless Richard and Family
Best Wishes
Christine
________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 21:00
Subject: RE: FW: Interesting story from News24
Hi, Eileen -
I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply about
Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here - do
care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of caring
deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here on
earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
Take care,
Johanne
From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have
always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is
crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been
dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
I am also sure he is with us in our work for him.
I feel he has been with me a long time and he is welcome in my life and home anytime.
God Bless Richard and Family
Best Wishes
Christine
________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 21:00
Subject: RE: FW: Interesting story from News24
Hi, Eileen -
I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply about
Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here - do
care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of caring
deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here on
earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
Take care,
Johanne
From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have
always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is
crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
him beneath a carpark.
In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been
dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-16 13:02:17
Yes....a beautiful message...thank you Johanne...
I'm another one here that believes that death is not an ending......I am also a great believer in Karma...and as my dad taught me....God pays debts without money.
Eileen
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Johanne, thank you for this message to Eileen, I too believe in the after life and that Richard is happy with his family.
> I am also sure he is with us in our work for him.
> I feel he has been with me a long time and he is welcome in my life and home anytime.
> God Bless Richard and Family
> Best Wishes
> Christine
> Â
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 21:00
> Subject: RE: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
> Â
>
> Hi, Eileen -
>
> I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply about
> Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here - do
> care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
> historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of caring
> deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
> believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here on
> earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
> all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
>
> Take care,
>
> Johanne
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
>
> Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have
> always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is
> crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
> him beneath a carpark.
>
> In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been
> dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm another one here that believes that death is not an ending......I am also a great believer in Karma...and as my dad taught me....God pays debts without money.
Eileen
--- In , C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Johanne, thank you for this message to Eileen, I too believe in the after life and that Richard is happy with his family.
> I am also sure he is with us in our work for him.
> I feel he has been with me a long time and he is welcome in my life and home anytime.
> God Bless Richard and Family
> Best Wishes
> Christine
> Â
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 21:00
> Subject: RE: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
> Â
>
> Hi, Eileen -
>
> I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply about
> Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here - do
> care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
> historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of caring
> deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
> believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here on
> earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
> all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
>
> Take care,
>
> Johanne
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
>
> Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I have
> always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This is
> crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
> him beneath a carpark.
>
> In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has been
> dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
2012-10-16 13:25:51
Yes, indeed, Eileen and my appreciation to both you and Christine Holmes for
sharing. I know that death is not an ending, and I know that all of us wish
peace to Richard and his loved ones. I hope by doing our small parts we may
be able to help to bring that about. It is nice to know that many people
here, regardless of their specific beliefs, or lack of them, are still
engaged in Richard’s story and hoping that at last it will have a good
ending. We are all united in that.
TTFN (:-))
Johanne
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:02 AM
To:
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Yes....a beautiful message...thank you Johanne...
I'm another one here that believes that death is not an ending......I am
also a great believer in Karma...and as my dad taught me....God pays debts
without money.
Eileen
--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , C HOLMES
<christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Johanne, thank you for this message to Eileen, I too believe in the
after life and that Richard is happy with his family.
> I am also sure he is with us in our work for him.
> I feel he has been with me a long time and he is welcome in my life and
home anytime.
> God Bless Richard and Family
> Best Wishes
> Christine
> Â
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 21:00
> Subject: RE: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
> Â
>
> Hi, Eileen -
>
> I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply
about
> Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here -
do
> care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
> historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of
caring
> deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
> believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here
on
> earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
> all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
>
> Take care,
>
> Johanne
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
EileenB
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
>
> Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I
have
> always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This
is
> crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
> him beneath a carpark.
>
> In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has
been
> dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
sharing. I know that death is not an ending, and I know that all of us wish
peace to Richard and his loved ones. I hope by doing our small parts we may
be able to help to bring that about. It is nice to know that many people
here, regardless of their specific beliefs, or lack of them, are still
engaged in Richard’s story and hoping that at last it will have a good
ending. We are all united in that.
TTFN (:-))
Johanne
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 9:02 AM
To:
Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
Yes....a beautiful message...thank you Johanne...
I'm another one here that believes that death is not an ending......I am
also a great believer in Karma...and as my dad taught me....God pays debts
without money.
Eileen
--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , C HOLMES
<christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Johanne, thank you for this message to Eileen, I too believe in the
after life and that Richard is happy with his family.
> I am also sure he is with us in our work for him.
> I feel he has been with me a long time and he is welcome in my life and
home anytime.
> God Bless Richard and Family
> Best Wishes
> Christine
> Â
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, 15 October 2012, 21:00
> Subject: RE: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
>
> Â
>
> Hi, Eileen -
>
> I certainly don't think you need to apologize because you feel deeply
about
> Richard. I think it is wonderful that people like you - and others here -
do
> care so much about his story, about the truth, and about rectifying a
> historic injustice. I think that feeling pain and sadness is part of
caring
> deeply about tragic events. Does it matter? I believe in the afterlife. I
> believe that Richard's spirit is aware of things that are happening here
on
> earth and that he appreciates that even today some people do care. Perhaps
> all these events will help him truly "rest in peace" at last.
>
> Take care,
>
> Johanne
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
EileenB
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 1:56 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: FW: Interesting story from News24
>
> Thank you both Annette and Johanne...
>
> Johanne...I dont want you to think that you have upset me....because I
have
> always been and will always be upset about what happened to Richard. This
is
> crunch time. This is unavoidable...painful but far far better than leaving
> him beneath a carpark.
>
> In any case...what is wrong with me...? in tears about someone who has
been
> dead for more than 500 years!....I need to get a grip..and fast...Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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