Annes marriage thoughts

Thank you Carol, I did read the Paul Kendall first many years ago and mailed a copy to Peter Strauss the American actor, and my other to an old childhood friend who was English descended and has spent several years living in England, visited Middleham&etc&.I didn't know the book to which we were referring was fiction&.glad to hear that. I assumed Anne was happy with Richard, but its also important to put the women of that era into perspective&.of being of their times. They were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love for a particular man. Boy, I`m glad I live now, I spent a childhood in France, living in ancient castle/estates, with no heat and rarely a toilet or bathtub on the floor of our bedrooms. Being and Army brat has never been easy.

>Carol said:

>
>"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that
>most of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their
>romantic love for a particular man.

This also applied to the men they married.

Karen

Karen Clark wrote:
>
> >Carol said:

> >"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love for a particular man."
>
> This also applied to the men they married.
>
> Karen
>
Carol responds:

Just to be clear, I think it must have been Carol Darling who made the comment you're responding to. It definitely wasn't me.

Carol (T)

My apologies! I'll make sure I'm clearer in the future.

Karen

From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:12:54 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts








Karen Clark wrote:
>
> >Carol said:

> >"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most
of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love
for a particular man."
>
> This also applied to the men they married.
>
> Karen
>
Carol responds:

Just to be clear, I think it must have been Carol Darling who made the
comment you're responding to. It definitely wasn't me.

Carol (T)

I still like to think that they cared for each other! They grew up together so were not complete strangers. And if it is true, he did rescue her from the being a kitchen maid.....What is the book that states their marriage to be an unhappy one? Most of the novels I have read treats their marriage and courtship in most romantic lights.....

--- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...> wrote:
>
> My apologies! I'll make sure I'm clearer in the future.
>
> Karen
>
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:12:54 -0000
> To: <>
> Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Karen Clark wrote:
> >
> > >Carol said:
>
> > >"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most
> of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love
> for a particular man."
> >
> > This also applied to the men they married.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> Carol responds:
>
> Just to be clear, I think it must have been Carol Darling who made the
> comment you're responding to. It definitely wasn't me.
>
> Carol (T)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> I still like to think that they cared for each other! They grew up together so were not complete strangers. And if it is true, he did rescue her from the being a kitchen maid.....What is the book that states their marriage to be an unhappy one? Most of the novels I have read treats their marriage and courtship in most romantic lights.....
>

If it's a "non-fiction" book it may be Hicks' 'Anne Neville' in which he mistranslates Rows' 'infelix mariter' (the caption to Richard's image in the version of the Roll written after Bosworth) as 'unhappily married'. Actually it just means 'unfortunate, husband'. If it's fiction-fiction it may be Philippa Gregory, who probably used Hicks' biography as her main source. (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)
Best,
Marie



> --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> >
> > My apologies! I'll make sure I'm clearer in the future.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:12:54 -0000
> > To: <>
> > Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Karen Clark wrote:
> > >
> > > >Carol said:
> >
> > > >"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most
> > of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love
> > for a particular man."
> > >
> > > This also applied to the men they married.
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > Just to be clear, I think it must have been Carol Darling who made the
> > comment you're responding to. It definitely wasn't me.
> >
> > Carol (T)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

<bandyoi@> wrote:
> >
> > I still like to think that they cared for each other! They grew up together so were not complete strangers. And if it is true, he did rescue her from the being a kitchen maid.....What is the book that states their marriage to be an unhappy one? Most of the novels I have read treats their marriage and courtship in most romantic lights.....

Carol responds:

I think that the books mentioned in the original thread were "Blood Sisters" by Sarah Gristwood (fiction) and "England's Queens: The Biography" by Elizabeth Norton (nonfiction). It appears that Norton specializes in the Tudor period, which would automatically prejudice her against Richard. I haven't read either book, but here's a link to the original discussion:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group//message/17097

The story that he found Anne as a kitchen maid and took her to sanctuary at Saint Martin le Grande comes from the Croyland (or Crowland) Chronicle and is certainly true (who could invent it?), but the details are unclear. However, the fact that Richard placed her in sanctuary rather than immediately marrying her speaks well for him and his intentions.

Carol

Don't know why I put a comma between unfortunate and husband. Please mentally erase.
Marie


--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >
> > I still like to think that they cared for each other! They grew up together so were not complete strangers. And if it is true, he did rescue her from the being a kitchen maid.....What is the book that states their marriage to be an unhappy one? Most of the novels I have read treats their marriage and courtship in most romantic lights.....
> >
>
> If it's a "non-fiction" book it may be Hicks' 'Anne Neville' in which he mistranslates Rows' 'infelix mariter' (the caption to Richard's image in the version of the Roll written after Bosworth) as 'unhappily married'. Actually it just means 'unfortunate, husband'. If it's fiction-fiction it may be Philippa Gregory, who probably used Hicks' biography as her main source. (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)
> Best,
> Marie
>
>
>
> > --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> > >
> > > My apologies! I'll make sure I'm clearer in the future.
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > > Reply-To: <>
> > > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:12:54 -0000
> > > To: <>
> > > Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Karen Clark wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Carol said:
> > >
> > > > >"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most
> > > of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love
> > > for a particular man."
> > > >
> > > > This also applied to the men they married.
> > > >
> > > > Karen
> > > >
> > > Carol responds:
> > >
> > > Just to be clear, I think it must have been Carol Darling who made the
> > > comment you're responding to. It definitely wasn't me.
> > >
> > > Carol (T)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Hmm! There were so many things that are inaccurate in her newest book The Kingmaker's Daughter, it isn't even funny!! Specially the part where she shows Richard dallying with his niece!




--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >
> > I still like to think that they cared for each other! They grew up together so were not complete strangers. And if it is true, he did rescue her from the being a kitchen maid.....What is the book that states their marriage to be an unhappy one? Most of the novels I have read treats their marriage and courtship in most romantic lights.....
> >
>
> If it's a "non-fiction" book it may be Hicks' 'Anne Neville' in which he mistranslates Rows' 'infelix mariter' (the caption to Richard's image in the version of the Roll written after Bosworth) as 'unhappily married'. Actually it just means 'unfortunate, husband'. If it's fiction-fiction it may be Philippa Gregory, who probably used Hicks' biography as her main source. (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)
> Best,
> Marie
>
>
>
> > --- In , Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@> wrote:
> > >
> > > My apologies! I'll make sure I'm clearer in the future.
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > > From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@>
> > > Reply-To: <>
> > > Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:12:54 -0000
> > > To: <>
> > > Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Karen Clark wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Carol said:
> > >
> > > > >"[women] were marriage pawns, and I guess had to accept their fate that most
> > > of their marriages were for an important purpose other than their romantic love
> > > for a particular man."
> > > >
> > > > This also applied to the men they married.
> > > >
> > > > Karen
> > > >
> > > Carol responds:
> > >
> > > Just to be clear, I think it must have been Carol Darling who made the
> > > comment you're responding to. It definitely wasn't me.
> > >
> > > Carol (T)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Dear Marie,

> (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of
> weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books
> were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)

She makes me sick. She once introduced herself on the radio with "As
a historian...". No, Philippa, you are *not* a historian, neither is
Alison 'did a BEd with only a little bit of history in it' Weir. Now
just shut up and go away, both of you...

cheers,
Marianne

I was amazed when I first read that Weir said she had "studied history seriously for the first time at teacher training college".  This suggested to me she hadn't even taken an O level.  I did a BEd with History as my main subject (I don't teach though) and wouldn't dream of calling myself  an historian.
 
 
Their conceit is miles bigger than their historical knowledge and yet ,God help us, they are both popular and if you try to tell people how cr*p they are, (especially Gregory)  people think you are jealous!
 
 

________________________________
From: Dr M M Gilchrist <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012, 18:39
Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts


Dear Marie,

> (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of
> weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books
> were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)

She makes me sick. She once introduced herself on the radio with "As
a historian...". No, Philippa, you are *not* a historian, neither is
Alison 'did a BEd with only a little bit of history in it' Weir. Now
just shut up and go away, both of you...

cheers,
Marianne




 

Hear. Hear
Sent from my BlackBerryý smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr M M Gilchrist <[email protected]>
Sender:
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:39:38
To: <>
Reply-To:
Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts

Dear Marie,

> (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of
> weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books
> were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)

She makes me sick. She once introduced herself on the radio with "As
a historian...". No, Philippa, you are *not* a historian, neither is
Alison 'did a BEd with only a little bit of history in it' Weir. Now
just shut up and go away, both of you...

cheers,
Marianne

--- In , Dr M M Gilchrist <docm@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Marie,
>
> > (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of
> > weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books
> > were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)
>
> She makes me sick. She once introduced herself on the radio with "As
> a historian...". No, Philippa, you are *not* a historian, neither is
> Alison 'did a BEd with only a little bit of history in it' Weir. Now
> just shut up and go away, both of you...
>
> cheers,
> Marianne
>
>
>


Ah now, Marianne, funnily enough you have just reminded me of something else she said in her interview. "I can't afford to get it wrong [or words to that effect] because all my readers are historians."
I must say by this time the interviewer was beginning to sound a bit bemused. It gave me a mental image of academics in universities all over the country avidly poring over the latest Philippa Gregory potboiler and nodding sagely.... You've got to laugh, haven't you, or you'd cry?
Best,
Marie

"Hear Hear " Dr Gilchrist.
Best Wishes
Christine



________________________________
From: Dr M M Gilchrist <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012, 18:39
Subject: Re: Annes marriage thoughts


 

Dear Marie,

> (I happened to hear PG on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour a couple of
> weeks ago, and she boasted how historically accurate her books
> were. "I do all the history" she said proudly.)

She makes me sick. She once introduced herself on the radio with "As
a historian...". No, Philippa, you are *not* a historian, neither is
Alison 'did a BEd with only a little bit of history in it' Weir. Now
just shut up and go away, both of you...

cheers,
Marianne

--I cry.......:0(
>
>
>
> Ah now, Marianne, funnily enough you have just reminded me of something else she said in her interview. "I can't afford to get it wrong [or words to that effect] because all my readers are historians."
> I must say by this time the interviewer was beginning to sound a bit bemused. It gave me a mental image of academics in universities all over the country avidly poring over the latest Philippa Gregory potboiler and nodding sagely.... You've got to laugh, haven't you, or you'd cry?
> Best,
> Marie
>

--I cry.......:0(
>
>
>
> Ah now, Marianne, funnily enough you have just reminded me of something else she said in her interview. "I can't afford to get it wrong [or words to that effect] because all my readers are historians."
> I must say by this time the interviewer was beginning to sound a bit bemused. It gave me a mental image of academics in universities all over the country avidly poring over the latest Philippa Gregory potboiler and nodding sagely.... You've got to laugh, haven't you, or you'd cry?
> Best,
> Marie
>