Richards appearance

I remember Richard being referred to as: The Little Saracen" I believe Richard is descended from Pedro the Cruel, way back, carrying Latin genetics&etc&its interesting in large families to see ancestor`s genetics showing up.

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> I remember Richard being referred to as: The Little Saracen" I believe Richard is descended from Pedro the Cruel, way back, carrying Latin genetics…etc…its interesting in large families to see ancestor`s genetics showing up.
>
Carol (T) responds:

If I recall correctly, neither the Yorkists nor the Lancastrians were descended from John of Gaunt's second wife, Constance of Castile, daughter of Pedro the Cruel. Richard's descent was through Gaunt's mistress/third wife, Katherine Swynford. And, of course, his descent would have been identical to that of his brothers and sisters (assuming Edward's legitimacy), so any "Latin" (Spanish?) ancestry would be shared and would date back six or seven generations to Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I, who died in 1290. I don't know about her coloring, but Richard's contemporary, Isabella of Castile, was blond.) Any dark coloration in Richard's line would more likely trace to the Mortimer ancestors of Richard's (and Edward's and George's) paternal grandmother.

In any case, as I said in an earlier post, Richard appears from his portraits to have been brown-haired and gray- or blue-eyed.

Carol (T)

As for Richard as "the little Saracen," I've never heard the phrase, even in Tudor sources. Can you recall where you heard it?

Just Carol reading your post about Richard not being descended from Pedro the Cruel, it occurred to me could Richard have inherited his colouring from Gwladys y Ddu daughter of Llewyllyn ap Iorweth. She married one of the Mortimers after having been widowed. Her first husband was Reginald de Braos. Edward and Richard's Mortimer descent is through Gwladys. Apparently she got her name Gwladys the Black because she had black hair. Just a thought but obviously it would be even further back than Eleanor of Castile, late 12th century not sure when she was born but I think Llewyllyn married Joanna around 1195 and Gwladys was already born ( child of his concubine). The dates will be in Sharon Penman's "Here Be Dragons".


--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Richard being referred to as: The Little Saracen" I believe Richard is descended from Pedro the Cruel, way back, carrying Latin genetics…etc…its interesting in large families to see ancestor`s genetics showing up.
> >
> Carol (T) responds:
>
> If I recall correctly, neither the Yorkists nor the Lancastrians were descended from John of Gaunt's second wife, Constance of Castile, daughter of Pedro the Cruel. Richard's descent was through Gaunt's mistress/third wife, Katherine Swynford. And, of course, his descent would have been identical to that of his brothers and sisters (assuming Edward's legitimacy), so any "Latin" (Spanish?) ancestry would be shared and would date back six or seven generations to Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I, who died in 1290. I don't know about her coloring, but Richard's contemporary, Isabella of Castile, was blond.) Any dark coloration in Richard's line would more likely trace to the Mortimer ancestors of Richard's (and Edward's and George's) paternal grandmother.
>
> In any case, as I said in an earlier post, Richard appears from his portraits to have been brown-haired and gray- or blue-eyed.
>
> Carol (T)
>
> As for Richard as "the little Saracen," I've never heard the phrase, even in Tudor sources. Can you recall where you heard it?
>

Actually, Pedro and his father, Alfonso XI, were described as light skinned
and fair-haired (and short). They were descendants from the House of
Burgundy, incidentally.

Maria
ejbronte@...


On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:

> I remember Richard being referred to as: The Little Saracen" I believe
> Richard is descended from Pedro the Cruel, way back, carrying Latin
> geneticsýetcýits interesting in large families to see ancestor`s genetics
> showing up.
>
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