Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace"

I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.

Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?

(I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)

By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!

Carol

As someone who never finished the earlier book....

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:07 PM
Subject: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace"


 
I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.

Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?

(I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)

By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!

Carol

If you really want to cringe, try On the Trail of Richard by Ollie (I think Kukla should have co-authored it, frankly). I loaded it to my Kindle and kept reading, hoping things would improve. Spoiler Alert: Richard may be awful, but Francis Lovell is the REAL villain. Why, no wonder he deserted Richard at Bosworth!

Though I suppose the book deserves one award: For most use of the word "wickedly" per chapter - everybody does everything (smile. laugh, look) wickedly. It's like watching The Ten Commandments and counting how many times someone says: "Moses, Moses."

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:07 PM
Subject: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace"


 
I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.

Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?

(I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)

By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!

Carol

Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.
>
> Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?
>
> (I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)
>
> By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!
>
> Carol
>

Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> If you really want to cringe, try On the Trail of Richard by Ollie (I think Kukla should have co-authored it, frankly). I loaded it to my Kindle and kept reading, hoping things would improve. Spoiler Alert: Richard may be awful, but Francis Lovell is the REAL villain. Why, no wonder he deserted Richard at Bosworth!
>
> Though I suppose the book deserves one award: For most use of the word "wickedly" per chapter - everybody does everything (smile. laugh, look) wickedly. It's like watching The Ten Commandments and counting how many times someone says: "Moses, Moses."

Carol responds:

Yes, I mentioned that book in another post. I got as far as the narrator's dream of Richard's ghost returning to describe his murder of brother George and sent it back to Kindle for a refund. I also posted a review of this bit of trash on Amazon.

Carol, profoundly hoping that the author isn't a member of this forum!

"EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen

Carol responds:

Blush! That's what I get for writing from memory. It's by Peter A. Hancock. I was thinking of "Royal Blood," which is on my "to read" list, along with John Ashdown-Hill's "Eleanor, the Secret Queen." So far, all Mr. Hancock has done is establish a chronology, but since he states that Rivers, Vaughn, and Grey were executed without trial (and suspects that Hastings saw the orders and rejoiced), my hopes aren't terribly high.

By the way, Eileen, are you a Thomas Campion fan? I think of the line "till 'Cherry-ripe' themselves do cry" every time I read your posts.

Carol

ROFL, Judy!



Gotta get *On the Trail of Richard* just for the laughs! If he had a mustache, he'd be twirling it! LOL!



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Judy Thomson
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 4:19 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace"





If you really want to cringe, try On the Trail of Richard by Ollie (I think Kukla should have co-authored it, frankly). I loaded it to my Kindle and kept reading, hoping things would improve. Spoiler Alert: Richard may be awful, but Francis Lovell is the REAL villain. Why, no wonder he deserted Richard at Bosworth!

Though I suppose the book deserves one award: For most use of the word "wickedly" per chapter - everybody does everything (smile. laugh, look) wickedly. It's like watching The Ten Commandments and counting how many times someone says: "Moses, Moses."

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@... <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com> >
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:07 PM
Subject: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace"



I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.

Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?

(I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)

By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!

Carol

Oh.....for one moment there I was hopeful of a new book by Mr Fields. You will enjoy Royal Blood as will you Dr Ashdown-Hill's Eleanor the Secret Queen. I was flabbergasted when I found out how noble Eleanor's blood line was...her grandfather was Richard Beauchamp Earl of Warwick...amazing and quite a sad life towards the end....Although I suppose there is always the (tiny) chance that she ended the relationship with Edward rather than being betrayed by him......Yikes....Edward does seem to have been very ungallant towards women. Look like he tried it with the wrong woman with La Woodville....

Off Topic.. Lol...Cherry is my nickname before I was one hour old...as I had a red nose the Doc said call her Cherry....It has stuck..all these flipping years..My real name is Eugenia....just ugh...!
Eileen ...who chose to go by her middle name...

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Blush! That's what I get for writing from memory. It's by Peter A. Hancock. I was thinking of "Royal Blood," which is on my "to read" list, along with John Ashdown-Hill's "Eleanor, the Secret Queen." So far, all Mr. Hancock has done is establish a chronology, but since he states that Rivers, Vaughn, and Grey were executed without trial (and suspects that Hastings saw the orders and rejoiced), my hopes aren't terribly high.
>
> By the way, Eileen, are you a Thomas Campion fan? I think of the line "till 'Cherry-ripe' themselves do cry" every time I read your posts.
>
> Carol
>

Could be worse Rudolph comes to mind :-) hopefully all well now

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 26, 2012, at 3:56 PM, "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:

> Oh.....for one moment there I was hopeful of a new book by Mr Fields. You will enjoy Royal Blood as will you Dr Ashdown-Hill's Eleanor the Secret Queen. I was flabbergasted when I found out how noble Eleanor's blood line was...her grandfather was Richard Beauchamp Earl of Warwick...amazing and quite a sad life towards the end....Although I suppose there is always the (tiny) chance that she ended the relationship with Edward rather than being betrayed by him......Yikes....Edward does seem to have been very ungallant towards women. Look like he tried it with the wrong woman with La Woodville....
>
> Off Topic.. Lol...Cherry is my nickname before I was one hour old...as I had a red nose the Doc said call her Cherry....It has stuck..all these flipping years..My real name is Eugenia....just ugh...!
> Eileen ...who chose to go by her middle name...
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
> >
> > "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
> >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > Blush! That's what I get for writing from memory. It's by Peter A. Hancock. I was thinking of "Royal Blood," which is on my "to read" list, along with John Ashdown-Hill's "Eleanor, the Secret Queen." So far, all Mr. Hancock has done is establish a chronology, but since he states that Rivers, Vaughn, and Grey were executed without trial (and suspects that Hastings saw the orders and rejoiced), my hopes aren't terribly high.
> >
> > By the way, Eileen, are you a Thomas Campion fan? I think of the line "till 'Cherry-ripe' themselves do cry" every time I read your posts.
> >
> > Carol
> >
>
>

Lol...thank you George....Yep...thankfully the red nose effect did not last too long and only reappears if I am really but really cold...brrrrrrr Eileen

--- In , George Butterfield <gbutterf1@...> wrote:
>
> Could be worse Rudolph comes to mind :-) hopefully all well now
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 26, 2012, at 3:56 PM, "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> > Oh.....for one moment there I was hopeful of a new book by Mr Fields. You will enjoy Royal Blood as will you Dr Ashdown-Hill's Eleanor the Secret Queen. I was flabbergasted when I found out how noble Eleanor's blood line was...her grandfather was Richard Beauchamp Earl of Warwick...amazing and quite a sad life towards the end....Although I suppose there is always the (tiny) chance that she ended the relationship with Edward rather than being betrayed by him......Yikes....Edward does seem to have been very ungallant towards women. Look like he tried it with the wrong woman with La Woodville....
> >
> > Off Topic.. Lol...Cherry is my nickname before I was one hour old...as I had a red nose the Doc said call her Cherry....It has stuck..all these flipping years..My real name is Eugenia....just ugh...!
> > Eileen ...who chose to go by her middle name...
> >
> > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> > >
> > > "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
> > >
> > > Carol responds:
> > >
> > > Blush! That's what I get for writing from memory. It's by Peter A. Hancock. I was thinking of "Royal Blood," which is on my "to read" list, along with John Ashdown-Hill's "Eleanor, the Secret Queen." So far, all Mr. Hancock has done is establish a chronology, but since he states that Rivers, Vaughn, and Grey were executed without trial (and suspects that Hastings saw the orders and rejoiced), my hopes aren't terribly high.
> > >
> > > By the way, Eileen, are you a Thomas Campion fan? I think of the line "till 'Cherry-ripe' themselves do cry" every time I read your posts.
> > >
> > > Carol
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

Oh, I wish I'd read your review.... 

Can one actually get a Kindle refund? I think I ought to have been paid to read that book. I've been sweating over writing a novel for way over a year, and the one spot of good news was realizing: If THIS junk got published, my stuff will sound like Joyce Carol Oates by comparison!

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: "On the Trail of Richard III" (Was: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace")


 
Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> If you really want to cringe, try On the Trail of Richard by Ollie (I think Kukla should have co-authored it, frankly). I loaded it to my Kindle and kept reading, hoping things would improve. Spoiler Alert: Richard may be awful, but Francis Lovell is the REAL villain. Why, no wonder he deserted Richard at Bosworth!
>
> Though I suppose the book deserves one award: For most use of the word "wickedly" per chapter - everybody does everything (smile. laugh, look) wickedly. It's like watching The Ten Commandments and counting how many times someone says: "Moses, Moses."

Carol responds:

Yes, I mentioned that book in another post. I got as far as the narrator's dream of Richard's ghost returning to describe his murder of brother George and sent it back to Kindle for a refund. I also posted a review of this bit of trash on Amazon.

Carol, profoundly hoping that the author isn't a member of this forum!

Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> Oh, I wish I'd read your review.... 
>
> Can one actually get a Kindle refund? I think I ought to have been paid to read that book. I've been sweating over writing a novel for way over a year, and the one spot of good news was realizing: If THIS junk got published, my stuff will sound like Joyce Carol Oates by comparison!

Carol responds:

Hi, Judy. Yes, it's quite easy to get a refund on a Kindle book (which Amazon removes from your Kindle), but there's a seven-day time limit. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200144510

By the way, I'm guessing that the book was self-published. It certainly was never copyedited or proofread! Here's a link to my review (it's the fourth one down):

http://www.amazon.com/Trail-King-Richard-III-ebook/product-reviews/B004P8K562/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

In case that doesn't work, I'll just copy and paste it here:

"1.0 out of 5 stars Feeble attempt at Ricardian fiction, October 21, 2012

"By DrCarol

"This book is so full of errors, from dangling modifiers and typos to myths and legends presented as fact, that I stopped reading it halfway through. The main character has piles of books about Richard III (ranging from the scholarly Rosemary Horrox to the biased and error-filled Alison Weir) but doesn't read them, relying instead on her intuition and dreams of a very unhistorical Richard. I suppose this book is intended as the antithesis of Josephine Tey's "Daughter of Time," and it's true that Tey's book contains some inaccuracies, but at least it's fun to read and works as a journey of intellectual discovery. This book starts out with an essentially Shakespearean view of Richard (minus the hunchback and withered arm, mercifully) but instead of progressing toward a revelation of the real Richard, goes farther into fantasy. The reader who wants to know more about Richard should look elsewhere. I know of only one good novel about Richard III, "The Sunne in Splendour" by Sharon Kay Penman, which would make a fine antidote to "The Search for Richard III." But for a balanced view, read the revisionist biography of Richard by Paul Murray Kendall and the traditionalist biography by Charles Ross. These contrasting books are both scholarly but readable works by reputable authors with none of the nonsense that abounds in this disappointing travesty.

"Now, how do I get a refund for a Kindle book?"

Carol

Well said. Unfortunately, I waited too long for the refund. Ah, well.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: "On the Trail of Richard III" (Was: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace")


 
Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> Oh, I wish I'd read your review.... 
>
> Can one actually get a Kindle refund? I think I ought to have been paid to read that book. I've been sweating over writing a novel for way over a year, and the one spot of good news was realizing: If THIS junk got published, my stuff will sound like Joyce Carol Oates by comparison!

Carol responds:

Hi, Judy. Yes, it's quite easy to get a refund on a Kindle book (which Amazon removes from your Kindle), but there's a seven-day time limit. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200144510

By the way, I'm guessing that the book was self-published. It certainly was never copyedited or proofread! Here's a link to my review (it's the fourth one down):

http://www.amazon.com/Trail-King-Richard-III-ebook/product-reviews/B004P8K562/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

In case that doesn't work, I'll just copy and paste it here:

"1.0 out of 5 stars Feeble attempt at Ricardian fiction, October 21, 2012

"By DrCarol

"This book is so full of errors, from dangling modifiers and typos to myths and legends presented as fact, that I stopped reading it halfway through. The main character has piles of books about Richard III (ranging from the scholarly Rosemary Horrox to the biased and error-filled Alison Weir) but doesn't read them, relying instead on her intuition and dreams of a very unhistorical Richard. I suppose this book is intended as the antithesis of Josephine Tey's "Daughter of Time," and it's true that Tey's book contains some inaccuracies, but at least it's fun to read and works as a journey of intellectual discovery. This book starts out with an essentially Shakespearean view of Richard (minus the hunchback and withered arm, mercifully) but instead of progressing toward a revelation of the real Richard, goes farther into fantasy. The reader who wants to know more about Richard should look elsewhere. I know of only one good novel about Richard III, "The Sunne
in Splendour" by Sharon Kay Penman, which would make a fine antidote to "The Search for Richard III." But for a balanced view, read the revisionist biography of Richard by Paul Murray Kendall and the traditionalist biography by Charles Ross. These contrasting books are both scholarly but readable works by reputable authors with none of the nonsense that abounds in this disappointing travesty.

"Now, how do I get a refund for a Kindle book?"

Carol

Hi Eileen
There is a book by Bertram Fields, published 2005, called Players that you might enjoy. It is not about Richard but about the search for who wrote Shakespeare. Another fascinating mystery. There are some references to Richard and to the play included.
Elaine

--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >
> > I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.
> >
> > Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?
> >
> > (I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)
> >
> > By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!
> >
> > Carol
> >
>

Thank you Elaine...I will have a search on Amazon....

Did you get my email thanking you for emailing me the article and copy of your letter....?

Eileen



--- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Eileen
> There is a book by Bertram Fields, published 2005, called Players that you might enjoy. It is not about Richard but about the search for who wrote Shakespeare. Another fascinating mystery. There are some references to Richard and to the play included.
> Elaine
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.
> > >
> > > Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?
> > >
> > > (I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)
> > >
> > > By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!
> > >
> > > Carol
> > >
> >
>

Oh I think Eugenia is great!   It doesn't really go with  Eileen though does it?



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 20:56
Subject: Re: "Murder in the Tower" (Was: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace")

 
Oh.....for one moment there I was hopeful of a new book by Mr Fields. You will enjoy Royal Blood as will you Dr Ashdown-Hill's Eleanor the Secret Queen. I was flabbergasted when I found out how noble Eleanor's blood line was...her grandfather was Richard Beauchamp Earl of Warwick...amazing and quite a sad life towards the end....Although I suppose there is always the (tiny) chance that she ended the relationship with Edward rather than being betrayed by him......Yikes....Edward does seem to have been very ungallant towards women. Look like he tried it with the wrong woman with La Woodville....

Off Topic.. Lol...Cherry is my nickname before I was one hour old...as I had a red nose the Doc said call her Cherry....It has stuck..all these flipping years..My real name is Eugenia....just ugh...!
Eileen ...who chose to go by her middle name...

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
> "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Blush! That's what I get for writing from memory. It's by Peter A. Hancock. I was thinking of "Royal Blood," which is on my "to read" list, along with John Ashdown-Hill's "Eleanor, the Secret Queen." So far, all Mr. Hancock has done is establish a chronology, but since he states that Rivers, Vaughn, and Grey were executed without trial (and suspects that Hastings saw the orders and rejoiced), my hopes aren't terribly high.
>
> By the way, Eileen, are you a Thomas Campion fan? I think of the line "till 'Cherry-ripe' themselves do cry" every time I read your posts.
>
> Carol
>

Hi
Yes, I did. Will reply offline.
Elaine

--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you Elaine...I will have a search on Amazon....
>
> Did you get my email thanking you for emailing me the article and copy of your letter....?
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Eileen
> > There is a book by Bertram Fields, published 2005, called Players that you might enjoy. It is not about Richard but about the search for who wrote Shakespeare. Another fascinating mystery. There are some references to Richard and to the play included.
> > Elaine
> >
> > --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.
> > > >
> > > > Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?
> > > >
> > > > (I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)
> > > >
> > > > By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!
> > > >
> > > > Carol
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Off Topic..Liz..No...it was a nightmare growing up in South London in the 1950s with a blooming French name....I blame my dad...He obviously had ideas above his station...I dont know who thought of the middle name..Eileen...someone told me it was Irish....I hate it...just found it preferable to a name none of my schoolmates...or teachers come to think of it... could pronounce....But Ive always been called Cherry by family...My husband doesnt call me anything...except when he is annoyed with me....hahahahahah Eileen

--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Oh I think Eugenia is great!   It doesn't really go with  Eileen though does it?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 20:56
> Subject: Re: "Murder in the Tower" (Was: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace")
>
>  
> Oh.....for one moment there I was hopeful of a new book by Mr Fields. You will enjoy Royal Blood as will you Dr Ashdown-Hill's Eleanor the Secret Queen. I was flabbergasted when I found out how noble Eleanor's blood line was...her grandfather was Richard Beauchamp Earl of Warwick...amazing and quite a sad life towards the end....Although I suppose there is always the (tiny) chance that she ended the relationship with Edward rather than being betrayed by him......Yikes....Edward does seem to have been very ungallant towards women. Look like he tried it with the wrong woman with La Woodville....
>
> Off Topic.. Lol...Cherry is my nickname before I was one hour old...as I had a red nose the Doc said call her Cherry....It has stuck..all these flipping years..My real name is Eugenia....just ugh...!
> Eileen ...who chose to go by her middle name...
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >
> > "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
> >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > Blush! That's what I get for writing from memory. It's by Peter A. Hancock. I was thinking of "Royal Blood," which is on my "to read" list, along with John Ashdown-Hill's "Eleanor, the Secret Queen." So far, all Mr. Hancock has done is establish a chronology, but since he states that Rivers, Vaughn, and Grey were executed without trial (and suspects that Hastings saw the orders and rejoiced), my hopes aren't terribly high.
> >
> > By the way, Eileen, are you a Thomas Campion fan? I think of the line "till 'Cherry-ripe' themselves do cry" every time I read your posts.
> >
> > Carol
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I struggled through Lady of the Roses. But I'm quite thankful I did as it
galvanised me to get serious with the various attempts I'd made to write a
novel about the Nevills. Some clouds do have silver linings.

Karen

From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:10:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: ""
<>
Subject: Re: Rose of York series: "Fall from
Grace"






As someone who never finished the earlier book....

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@... <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com> >
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 2:07 PM
Subject: Rose of York series: "Fall from Grace"



I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very
cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly
because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her
story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has
a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several
points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his
own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown.
I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.

Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower"
mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should
I save the $3.00 for something better?

(I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very
different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)

By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on
Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try
that next!

Carol

Hi, I read all three books of the series and was not taken with them. According to the book Anne played match maker between Richard and Bess and Richard fell in love with Bess because she looked like Anne. Oh, the club foot thing was strange if nothing else........

--- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Yes, I did. Will reply offline.
> Elaine
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you Elaine...I will have a search on Amazon....
> >
> > Did you get my email thanking you for emailing me the article and copy of your letter....?
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Eileen
> > > There is a book by Bertram Fields, published 2005, called Players that you might enjoy. It is not about Richard but about the search for who wrote Shakespeare. Another fascinating mystery. There are some references to Richard and to the play included.
> > > Elaine
> > >
> > > --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carol....forgive me but are you sure Murder in the Tower is by Bertram Fields? I know Bertram Field's wrote Royal Blood, thoroughly recommended....If Mr Fields has indeed written another book I would rush to buy it....Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've read the first two books in the Rose of York series (available very cheap on Kindle) and am wondering whether I should read the third, chiefly because Sandra Worth brings some very odd and unhistorical elements into her story: Richard is left-handed, Anne is a vegetarian, and Francis Lovell has a club foot, to name a few. I disagree with her interpretation on several points, but the most disturbing to me are her views that Richard feared his own illegitimacy and that his mother disapproved of his assuming the crown. I also don't like his view of little Richard of York as just a Woodville.
> > > > >
> > > > > Without giving away details like her solution to the "Princes in the Tower" mystery (I think I know already), does anyone recommend this book or should I save the $3.00 for something better?
> > > > >
> > > > > (I'm also reading Bertram Field's "Murder in the Tower," obviously a very different matter, but I won't discuss that now.)
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, Joan, I found a very favorable review of "Loyalty Binds Me" on Goodreads" at http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/384063679 Maybe I'll try that next!
> > > > >
> > > > > Carol
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi, all!

> According to the book Anne played match maker between Richard and
> Bess and Richard fell in love with Bess because she looked like Anne.

*Bess looks like Elizabeth Woodville*.
That's enough to give Richard nightmares.
Compare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElizabethWoodville.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
File:Elizabeth_of_York_from_Kings_and_Queens_of_England.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3429/3379899901_ee12103a05_m.jpg
Same rounded little face...

best wishes,
Marianne

It looks as if Bess was a bit plumpier than her mother..perhaps she indulged in comfort eating :0)..although of course La Woodville could have put on weight later on in life...in the portrait of her she appears quite young...late 20s early 30s...Eileen



--- In , Dr M M Gilchrist <docm@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, all!
>
> > According to the book Anne played match maker between Richard and
> > Bess and Richard fell in love with Bess because she looked like Anne.
>
> *Bess looks like Elizabeth Woodville*.
> That's enough to give Richard nightmares.
> Compare:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElizabethWoodville.JPG
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> File:Elizabeth_of_York_from_Kings_and_Queens_of_England.jpg
> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3429/3379899901_ee12103a05_m.jpg
> Same rounded little face...
>
> best wishes,
> Marianne
>
>
>

The Privy Purse Expenses suggest she got through an awful lot of Llanthony cheese
Marie

--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> It looks as if Bess was a bit plumpier than her mother..perhaps she indulged in comfort eating :0)..although of course La Woodville could have put on weight later on in life...in the portrait of her she appears quite young...late 20s early 30s...Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , Dr M M Gilchrist <docm@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, all!
> >
> > > According to the book Anne played match maker between Richard and
> > > Bess and Richard fell in love with Bess because she looked like Anne.
> >
> > *Bess looks like Elizabeth Woodville*.
> > That's enough to give Richard nightmares.
> > Compare:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElizabethWoodville.JPG
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> > File:Elizabeth_of_York_from_Kings_and_Queens_of_England.jpg
> > http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3429/3379899901_ee12103a05_m.jpg
> > Same rounded little face...
> >
> > best wishes,
> > Marianne
> >
> >
> >
>

"bandyoi" wrote:
>
>
> Hi, I read all three books of the series and was not taken with them. According to the book Anne played match maker between Richard and Bess and Richard fell in love with Bess because she looked like Anne. Oh, the club foot thing was strange if nothing else........

Carol responds:

Thanks, Ishita. I'll save my money for something worth reading!

By the way, I wonder if Sandra Worth got the idea that Richard was left-handed from the National Gallery portrait, where he's playing with one of the rings on his right hand (instead of placing a wedding ring on his left hand, as he appears to be doing in the Society of Antiquities version).

Carol