Sir Francis Lovell

Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident&..

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
>


Lowell didn't desert Richard. He was sent by Richard, before the battle, to lead a contingent to intercept Tudor at Milford. Unfortunately, the intelligence specified the wrong Milford.

Katy

Carol Darling wrote:
>
> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
>
Carol (T) responds:

There's no historical evidence that Francis Lovell deserted Richard at Bosworth. He either survived the battle or didn't arrive from the coastlands that Richard had sent him to guard in time to fight. Either way, he was declared a traitor by Henry VII. Along with other men loyal to Richard, including Richard's nephew, John, Earl of Lincoln (who was not in the battle, I suspect because Richard wanted him safe), Lovell made his way to Richard's sister, Margaret, dowager duchess of Burgundy, who helped Lovell and Lincoln back the imposter Lambert Simnel and financed the ill-fated Battle of Stoke (the *real* last battle of the Wars of the Roses) against the Tudor usurper. John of Lincoln was killed in that battle, but Lovell survived again--only to disappear from history. Some historians think that he drowned along with his horse trying to flee from Tudor; others think that he somehow starved to death in his own cellar.

I don't generally recommend Wikipedia, but this article will tell you what you need to know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lovell,_1st_Viscount_Lovell

Also see the short biography at http://www.richardiii.net/ww%20hu%20to%20ne.htm

Some novel writers try to turn Francis Lovell into a villain, but the historical record shows that he was loyal to Richard and opposed Henry VII even after Bosworth.

Carol (T)

Carol Darling wrote:
>
> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
>
Carol adds:

I forgot to mention that "No wonder he deserted Richard at Bosworth" was Judy's humorously ironic comment on what may be the worst Ricardian novel ever, "On the Trail of Richard III." Lovell's desertion is the product of that author's demented imagination, not a statement of historical fact (or Judy's real view).

Right, Judy?

Carol (T)

Carol
we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
Paul

On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:

> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident&..
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Carol
> we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> Paul
>
> On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell


 
I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Carol
> we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> Paul
>
> On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident&..
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

It must have been very easy to disappear one self in the 15th century....No NI numbers, no cameras, no Sun Newspaper to track you down....What could possibly go wrong?
Eileen
--- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol
> > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > Paul
> >
> > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> >
> > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell


 
It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.

________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell


 
I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Carol
> we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> Paul
>
> On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident&..
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Correct. Not my view at all. I was so taken aback, I laughed...wickedly.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Viscount Lovell (Was: Sir Francis Lovell(


 
Carol Darling wrote:
>
> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident&..
>
Carol adds:

I forgot to mention that "No wonder he deserted Richard at Bosworth" was Judy's humorously ironic comment on what may be the worst Ricardian novel ever, "On the Trail of Richard III." Lovell's desertion is the product of that author's demented imagination, not a statement of historical fact (or Judy's real view).

Right, Judy?

Carol (T)

I hope he did....He must have survived for the offer to have been made. Eileen

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol
> > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > Paul
> >
> > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> >
> > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Why on earth would anyone try and turn him into a villain?  I shall restrain my outrage (because Francis has always been my favourite of Richard's followers) but there isn't once ounce of anything historical to suggest such a thing.  (Silly me, I know history has nothing to do with it but I just don't understand how people even think of making that leap)


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:05
Subject: Re: Viscount Lovell (Was: Sir Francis Lovell)

 
Carol Darling wrote:
>
> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident&..
>
Carol (T) responds:

There's no historical evidence that Francis Lovell deserted Richard at Bosworth. He either survived the battle or didn't arrive from the coastlands that Richard had sent him to guard in time to fight. Either way, he was declared a traitor by Henry VII. Along with other men loyal to Richard, including Richard's nephew, John, Earl of Lincoln (who was not in the battle, I suspect because Richard wanted him safe), Lovell made his way to Richard's sister, Margaret, dowager duchess of Burgundy, who helped Lovell and Lincoln back the imposter Lambert Simnel and financed the ill-fated Battle of Stoke (the *real* last battle of the Wars of the Roses) against the Tudor usurper. John of Lincoln was killed in that battle, but Lovell survived again--only to disappear from history. Some historians think that he drowned along with his horse trying to flee from Tudor; others think that he somehow starved to death in his own cellar.

I don't generally recommend Wikipedia, but this article will tell you what you need to know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lovell,_1st_Viscount_Lovell

Also see the short biography at http://www.richardiii.net/ww%20hu%20to%20ne.htm

Some novel writers try to turn Francis Lovell into a villain, but the historical record shows that he was loyal to Richard and opposed Henry VII even after Bosworth.

Carol (T)

I'm intrigued by Lovell, though I'm not going to get to him for a while.
He's a great illustration of the political divisions in some families and
the tensions in some women's loyalties. In among the Paston letters, we have
one from Alice Fitzhugh, urging John Paston (III, iirc) to find Lovell,
who's rumoured to be in the vicinity of Ely and do all he can to help him;
and a letter from Alice's sister Margaret, countess of Oxford, urging Paston
to find Lovell and turn him in.

Karen

From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:05:15 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: Viscount Lovell (Was: Sir Francis
Lovell)






Carol Darling wrote:
>
> Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at
Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead
is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all
clear for the rest of us, about this incident?..
>
Carol (T) responds:

There's no historical evidence that Francis Lovell deserted Richard at
Bosworth. He either survived the battle or didn't arrive from the coastlands
that Richard had sent him to guard in time to fight. Either way, he was
declared a traitor by Henry VII. Along with other men loyal to Richard,
including Richard's nephew, John, Earl of Lincoln (who was not in the
battle, I suspect because Richard wanted him safe), Lovell made his way to
Richard's sister, Margaret, dowager duchess of Burgundy, who helped Lovell
and Lincoln back the imposter Lambert Simnel and financed the ill-fated
Battle of Stoke (the *real* last battle of the Wars of the Roses) against
the Tudor usurper. John of Lincoln was killed in that battle, but Lovell
survived again--only to disappear from history. Some historians think that
he drowned along with his horse trying to flee from Tudor; others think that
he somehow starved to death in his own cellar.

I don't generally recommend Wikipedia, but this article will tell you what
you need to know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Lovell,_1st_Viscount_Lovell

Also see the short biography at
http://www.richardiii.net/ww%20hu%20to%20ne.htm

Some novel writers try to turn Francis Lovell into a villain, but the
historical record shows that he was loyal to Richard and opposed Henry VII
even after Bosworth.

Carol (T)

If he'd managed to do that, I think he'd possibly have sent for his wife.
Maybe, when I finally unearth the Fitzhugh Papers (a girl can dream!) I'll
find a letter from Francis to his wife, telling her that all is well. My
imagination fills that hypothetical box will all sorts of lovely things.

Karen

From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:25:15 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell






I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his
escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from
the malice of old Weasle. Eileen

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
<paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Carol
> we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have
ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought
of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> Paul
>
> On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at
Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead
is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all
clear for the rest of us, about this incident?..
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

I'm kinda betting on it, Eileen ;-)

Judy

 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell


 
I hope he did....He must have survived for the offer to have been made. Eileen

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol
> > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > Paul
> >
> > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> >
> > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident⬦..
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

1488 was the year that James III was overthrown and killed - so was the Lovell "safe conduct" offer before or after Sauchieburn? If before, it may have lost it's validity.

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol
> > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > Paul
> >
> > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> >
> > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I, for one, don't know. Good point, Stephen.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: stephenmlark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell


 
1488 was the year that James III was overthrown and killed - so was the Lovell "safe conduct" offer before or after Sauchieburn? If before, it may have lost it's validity.

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
>
>
>  
> I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Carol
> > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > Paul
> >
> > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> >
> > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident⬦..
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

It was just after - 19th June.
Marie

--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> 1488 was the year that James III was overthrown and killed - so was the Lovell "safe conduct" offer before or after Sauchieburn? If before, it may have lost it's validity.
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....
> >
> > Judy
> >  
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: david rayner <theblackprussian@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
> >
> >
> >  
> > It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> > Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
> >
> >
> >  
> > I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carol
> > > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> > >
> > > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incident…..
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Dear Marie,

> It was just after - 19th June.


So it was from James IV...

best wishes,
Marianne

So it came from James IV - important.

----- Original Message -----
From: mariewalsh2003
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell



It was just after - 19th June.
Marie

--- In , "stephenmlark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> 1488 was the year that James III was overthrown and killed - so was the Lovell "safe conduct" offer before or after Sauchieburn? If before, it may have lost it's validity.
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, all we know of Scotland is the king there offered him a safe haven. There's no proof he actually accepted the offer....
> >
> > Judy
> > Â
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: david rayner <theblackprussian@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 3:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
> >
> >
> > Â
> > It's fairly well reported that he was living in Scotland in 1488, but nobody seems to know when he died.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 26 October 2012, 21:25
> > Subject: Re: Sir Francis Lovell
> >
> >
> > Â
> > I would love to know that Francis Lovell, and his horse, did make his escape at Stoke and lived out the rest of his days in a safe place away from the malice of old Weasle. Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Carol
> > > we are not certain Lovell made it to Bosworth in time. He certainly would have ridden with Richard in his final charge, had he been there, and the very thought of him deserting him is unthinkable.
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> > >
> > > > Could someone give details that Francis Lovell actually deserted Richard at Bosworth. Leaving the field when the battle had turned and your friend is dead is one thing, deserting while your friend is alive is another. Please make all clear for the rest of us, about this incidentâ?¦..
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> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
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