"Loved" or "Needed"...
"Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-06 18:39:04
To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-06 18:43:53
I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-06 19:00:27
"I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen"
Hi Eileen
That's not actually incompatible with what I'm saying. It's more I'm trying to avoid modern conceptions of the terms, which I don't think entirely work in a top-down society. Monarchs had duties to subjects, as subjects had to monarchs. And if you got that right, there would be harmony in the body politic and, yes, you would be loved.
(Also, of course, the term "love" could be used in rather more of a formal sense than is the case today.)
Jonathan
Hi Eileen
That's not actually incompatible with what I'm saying. It's more I'm trying to avoid modern conceptions of the terms, which I don't think entirely work in a top-down society. Monarchs had duties to subjects, as subjects had to monarchs. And if you got that right, there would be harmony in the body politic and, yes, you would be loved.
(Also, of course, the term "love" could be used in rather more of a formal sense than is the case today.)
Jonathan
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-06 22:16:47
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
Carol responds:
That remark was made by, of all people, John Rous:
"This King Richard was praiseworthy for his building, as at Westminster, Nottingham, Warwick, York, and Middleham, and many other places, which can be viewed. He founded a noble chantry for a hundred priests in the Cathedral of York, and another at Middleham. He founded another in the church of St. Mary of Barking, by the Tower of London, and endowed the Queen's College at Cambridge with 500 marks annual rent. The money which was offered him by the peoples of London, Gloucester, and Worcester he declined with thanks, affirming that he would rather have their love than their treasure". - John Rous, 1486
If the date here is correct, Rous made this remark after Richard's death, before he turned timeserver for Henry Tudor. it comes from the Richard III Foundation:
http://www.richard111.com/what_history_has_to_say_about_ri.htm
The remark is very similar to one by the bishop Thomas Langton, who remained faithful and was apparently at Bosworth (so much for Richard's not having mass before battle if that's true), "He contents the people where he goes best that ever did prince, for many a poor man that hath suffered wrong many days have been relieved and helped by him and his commands now in his progress. And in many great cities and towns were great sums of money given him which all he hath refused. On my truth I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his." Admittedly, this statement doesn't mention love, but coming from such a different source, it corroborates Rous's remark (made, of course, before Rous started printing nonsense about Richard's monstrous birth).
Elsewhere, (pre-timeserver) Rous says, "The most mighty Prince Richard…all avarice set aside ruled his subjects in his realm full commendably, punishing offenders of his laws, especially extortioners and oppressors of his commons, and cherishing those that were virtuous, by the which discreet guiding he got great thanks of God and love of all his subjects, rich and poor, and great praise of the people of all other lands about him." - The Rous Roll (What a contrast to Rous's later and much less believable depiction.)
If anyone wants to take this topic further, we might talk about "love" in the context of the obligation of a medieval king or noble and his people or followers (noblesse oblige) and what he expected in return. In this context, Richard's letters are particularly interesting. Rather surprisingly, a number of them appear (in modern English) on Wikiquote:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England
There's one quotation about Richard's "selfishness" (Michael Hicks, of course), but the other quotes *about* Richard are from favorable sources (Annette, Bertram Fields, Kendall).
Carol
>
> I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
Carol responds:
That remark was made by, of all people, John Rous:
"This King Richard was praiseworthy for his building, as at Westminster, Nottingham, Warwick, York, and Middleham, and many other places, which can be viewed. He founded a noble chantry for a hundred priests in the Cathedral of York, and another at Middleham. He founded another in the church of St. Mary of Barking, by the Tower of London, and endowed the Queen's College at Cambridge with 500 marks annual rent. The money which was offered him by the peoples of London, Gloucester, and Worcester he declined with thanks, affirming that he would rather have their love than their treasure". - John Rous, 1486
If the date here is correct, Rous made this remark after Richard's death, before he turned timeserver for Henry Tudor. it comes from the Richard III Foundation:
http://www.richard111.com/what_history_has_to_say_about_ri.htm
The remark is very similar to one by the bishop Thomas Langton, who remained faithful and was apparently at Bosworth (so much for Richard's not having mass before battle if that's true), "He contents the people where he goes best that ever did prince, for many a poor man that hath suffered wrong many days have been relieved and helped by him and his commands now in his progress. And in many great cities and towns were great sums of money given him which all he hath refused. On my truth I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his." Admittedly, this statement doesn't mention love, but coming from such a different source, it corroborates Rous's remark (made, of course, before Rous started printing nonsense about Richard's monstrous birth).
Elsewhere, (pre-timeserver) Rous says, "The most mighty Prince Richard…all avarice set aside ruled his subjects in his realm full commendably, punishing offenders of his laws, especially extortioners and oppressors of his commons, and cherishing those that were virtuous, by the which discreet guiding he got great thanks of God and love of all his subjects, rich and poor, and great praise of the people of all other lands about him." - The Rous Roll (What a contrast to Rous's later and much less believable depiction.)
If anyone wants to take this topic further, we might talk about "love" in the context of the obligation of a medieval king or noble and his people or followers (noblesse oblige) and what he expected in return. In this context, Richard's letters are particularly interesting. Rather surprisingly, a number of them appear (in modern English) on Wikiquote:
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England
There's one quotation about Richard's "selfishness" (Michael Hicks, of course), but the other quotes *about* Richard are from favorable sources (Annette, Bertram Fields, Kendall).
Carol
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-07 02:22:22
Hmm...methinks I need to study the mind of the medieval male a little more. Have you any suggestions for sources? At the moment I'm wondering how he reconciled killing with a God who order his subjects not to kill.
/start joke
Unfortunately, since Richard was a devoted Catholic, I doubt he'd respond to a request for an interview if I planned a seance. Darn it.
/end joke
~Wednesday
PS. I'm stunned at the seeming lack of arrogance in the prayer he adapted for himself.
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
/start joke
Unfortunately, since Richard was a devoted Catholic, I doubt he'd respond to a request for an interview if I planned a seance. Darn it.
/end joke
~Wednesday
PS. I'm stunned at the seeming lack of arrogance in the prayer he adapted for himself.
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-07 17:52:05
Thanks Carol...a good link. Its nice to have all Richard's quotes in once place...
Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
>
> Carol responds:
>
> That remark was made by, of all people, John Rous:
>
> "This King Richard was praiseworthy for his building, as at Westminster, Nottingham, Warwick, York, and Middleham, and many other places, which can be viewed. He founded a noble chantry for a hundred priests in the Cathedral of York, and another at Middleham. He founded another in the church of St. Mary of Barking, by the Tower of London, and endowed the Queen's College at Cambridge with 500 marks annual rent. The money which was offered him by the peoples of London, Gloucester, and Worcester he declined with thanks, affirming that he would rather have their love than their treasure". - John Rous, 1486
>
> If the date here is correct, Rous made this remark after Richard's death, before he turned timeserver for Henry Tudor. it comes from the Richard III Foundation:
>
> http://www.richard111.com/what_history_has_to_say_about_ri.htm
>
> The remark is very similar to one by the bishop Thomas Langton, who remained faithful and was apparently at Bosworth (so much for Richard's not having mass before battle if that's true), "He contents the people where he goes best that ever did prince, for many a poor man that hath suffered wrong many days have been relieved and helped by him and his commands now in his progress. And in many great cities and towns were great sums of money given him which all he hath refused. On my truth I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his." Admittedly, this statement doesn't mention love, but coming from such a different source, it corroborates Rous's remark (made, of course, before Rous started printing nonsense about Richard's monstrous birth).
>
> Elsewhere, (pre-timeserver) Rous says, "The most mighty Prince Richard…all avarice set aside ruled his subjects in his realm full commendably, punishing offenders of his laws, especially extortioners and oppressors of his commons, and cherishing those that were virtuous, by the which discreet guiding he got great thanks of God and love of all his subjects, rich and poor, and great praise of the people of all other lands about him." - The Rous Roll (What a contrast to Rous's later and much less believable depiction.)
>
> If anyone wants to take this topic further, we might talk about "love" in the context of the obligation of a medieval king or noble and his people or followers (noblesse oblige) and what he expected in return. In this context, Richard's letters are particularly interesting. Rather surprisingly, a number of them appear (in modern English) on Wikiquote:
>
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England
>
> There's one quotation about Richard's "selfishness" (Michael Hicks, of course), but the other quotes *about* Richard are from favorable sources (Annette, Bertram Fields, Kendall).
>
> Carol
>
Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
>
> Carol responds:
>
> That remark was made by, of all people, John Rous:
>
> "This King Richard was praiseworthy for his building, as at Westminster, Nottingham, Warwick, York, and Middleham, and many other places, which can be viewed. He founded a noble chantry for a hundred priests in the Cathedral of York, and another at Middleham. He founded another in the church of St. Mary of Barking, by the Tower of London, and endowed the Queen's College at Cambridge with 500 marks annual rent. The money which was offered him by the peoples of London, Gloucester, and Worcester he declined with thanks, affirming that he would rather have their love than their treasure". - John Rous, 1486
>
> If the date here is correct, Rous made this remark after Richard's death, before he turned timeserver for Henry Tudor. it comes from the Richard III Foundation:
>
> http://www.richard111.com/what_history_has_to_say_about_ri.htm
>
> The remark is very similar to one by the bishop Thomas Langton, who remained faithful and was apparently at Bosworth (so much for Richard's not having mass before battle if that's true), "He contents the people where he goes best that ever did prince, for many a poor man that hath suffered wrong many days have been relieved and helped by him and his commands now in his progress. And in many great cities and towns were great sums of money given him which all he hath refused. On my truth I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his." Admittedly, this statement doesn't mention love, but coming from such a different source, it corroborates Rous's remark (made, of course, before Rous started printing nonsense about Richard's monstrous birth).
>
> Elsewhere, (pre-timeserver) Rous says, "The most mighty Prince Richard…all avarice set aside ruled his subjects in his realm full commendably, punishing offenders of his laws, especially extortioners and oppressors of his commons, and cherishing those that were virtuous, by the which discreet guiding he got great thanks of God and love of all his subjects, rich and poor, and great praise of the people of all other lands about him." - The Rous Roll (What a contrast to Rous's later and much less believable depiction.)
>
> If anyone wants to take this topic further, we might talk about "love" in the context of the obligation of a medieval king or noble and his people or followers (noblesse oblige) and what he expected in return. In this context, Richard's letters are particularly interesting. Rather surprisingly, a number of them appear (in modern English) on Wikiquote:
>
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England
>
> There's one quotation about Richard's "selfishness" (Michael Hicks, of course), but the other quotes *about* Richard are from favorable sources (Annette, Bertram Fields, Kendall).
>
> Carol
>
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-07 18:00:59
Thanks for the quotes!
Now reading his physical attributes, it seems most people called him good looking but short. How short is short??
My husband is 5' 9" and considered short in US.....
Ishita Bandyo
Ishita Bandyo Contemporary Fine Art
www.ishitabandyo.com
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Latest post: Okay, power back! Hot water shower never seemed so heavenly! Now I have to make up for a week of not painting.......
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________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
Thanks Carol...a good link. Its nice to have all Richard's quotes in once place...
Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
>
> Carol responds:
>
> That remark was made by, of all people, John Rous:
>
> "This King Richard was praiseworthy for his building, as at Westminster, Nottingham, Warwick, York, and Middleham, and many other places, which can be viewed. He founded a noble chantry for a hundred priests in the Cathedral of York, and another at Middleham. He founded another in the church of St. Mary of Barking, by the Tower of London, and endowed the Queen's College at Cambridge with 500 marks annual rent. The money which was offered him by the peoples of London, Gloucester, and Worcester he declined with thanks, affirming that he would rather have their love than their treasure". - John Rous, 1486
>
> If the date here is correct, Rous made this remark after Richard's death, before he turned timeserver for Henry Tudor. it comes from the Richard III Foundation:
>
> http://www.richard111.com/what_history_has_to_say_about_ri.htm
>
> The remark is very similar to one by the bishop Thomas Langton, who remained faithful and was apparently at Bosworth (so much for Richard's not having mass before battle if that's true), "He contents the people where he goes best that ever did prince, for many a poor man that hath suffered wrong many days have been relieved and helped by him and his commands now in his progress. And in many great cities and towns were great sums of money given him which all he hath refused. On my truth I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his." Admittedly, this statement doesn't mention love, but coming from such a different source, it corroborates Rous's remark (made, of course, before Rous started printing nonsense about Richard's monstrous birth).
>
> Elsewhere, (pre-timeserver) Rous says, "The most mighty Prince Richard&all avarice set aside ruled his subjects in his realm full commendably, punishing offenders of his laws, especially extortioners and oppressors of his commons, and cherishing those that were virtuous, by the which discreet guiding he got great thanks of God and love of all his subjects, rich and poor, and great praise of the people of all other lands about him." - The Rous Roll (What a contrast to Rous's later and much less believable depiction.)
>
> If anyone wants to take this topic further, we might talk about "love" in the context of the obligation of a medieval king or noble and his people or followers (noblesse oblige) and what he expected in return. In this context, Richard's letters are particularly interesting. Rather surprisingly, a number of them appear (in modern English) on Wikiquote:
>
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England
>
> There's one quotation about Richard's "selfishness" (Michael Hicks, of course), but the other quotes *about* Richard are from favorable sources (Annette, Bertram Fields, Kendall).
>
> Carol
>
Now reading his physical attributes, it seems most people called him good looking but short. How short is short??
My husband is 5' 9" and considered short in US.....
Ishita Bandyo
Ishita Bandyo Contemporary Fine Art
www.ishitabandyo.com
Latest post: Okay, power back! Hot water shower never seemed so heavenly! Now I have to make up for a week of not painting.......
Like · Comment · Share Ishita Bandyo Fine Arts page on Facebook Like
Get this email app!
Designed with WiseStamp - Get yours
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2012 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
Thanks Carol...a good link. Its nice to have all Richard's quotes in once place...
Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > I had the impression that Richard did indeed care that he had the love of his subjects. It was something like somewhere...I think York...offered him a gift of money or similar and he turned it down saying something on the lines that he would rather have their love...Eileen
>
> Carol responds:
>
> That remark was made by, of all people, John Rous:
>
> "This King Richard was praiseworthy for his building, as at Westminster, Nottingham, Warwick, York, and Middleham, and many other places, which can be viewed. He founded a noble chantry for a hundred priests in the Cathedral of York, and another at Middleham. He founded another in the church of St. Mary of Barking, by the Tower of London, and endowed the Queen's College at Cambridge with 500 marks annual rent. The money which was offered him by the peoples of London, Gloucester, and Worcester he declined with thanks, affirming that he would rather have their love than their treasure". - John Rous, 1486
>
> If the date here is correct, Rous made this remark after Richard's death, before he turned timeserver for Henry Tudor. it comes from the Richard III Foundation:
>
> http://www.richard111.com/what_history_has_to_say_about_ri.htm
>
> The remark is very similar to one by the bishop Thomas Langton, who remained faithful and was apparently at Bosworth (so much for Richard's not having mass before battle if that's true), "He contents the people where he goes best that ever did prince, for many a poor man that hath suffered wrong many days have been relieved and helped by him and his commands now in his progress. And in many great cities and towns were great sums of money given him which all he hath refused. On my truth I never liked the conditions of any prince so well as his." Admittedly, this statement doesn't mention love, but coming from such a different source, it corroborates Rous's remark (made, of course, before Rous started printing nonsense about Richard's monstrous birth).
>
> Elsewhere, (pre-timeserver) Rous says, "The most mighty Prince Richard&all avarice set aside ruled his subjects in his realm full commendably, punishing offenders of his laws, especially extortioners and oppressors of his commons, and cherishing those that were virtuous, by the which discreet guiding he got great thanks of God and love of all his subjects, rich and poor, and great praise of the people of all other lands about him." - The Rous Roll (What a contrast to Rous's later and much less believable depiction.)
>
> If anyone wants to take this topic further, we might talk about "love" in the context of the obligation of a medieval king or noble and his people or followers (noblesse oblige) and what he expected in return. In this context, Richard's letters are particularly interesting. Rather surprisingly, a number of them appear (in modern English) on Wikiquote:
>
> http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England
>
> There's one quotation about Richard's "selfishness" (Michael Hicks, of course), but the other quotes *about* Richard are from favorable sources (Annette, Bertram Fields, Kendall).
>
> Carol
>
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-07 19:50:22
You'd probably need to look at the doctrine of the Just War. Also, I'm sure it did bother a lot of people that they had killed, but if you live in a dangerous and violent age it surely doesn't seem as horrific as it would to one of us if we sudddenly found we'd murdered someone. Not surprising, perhaps, that there was so much prayer and penance going on.
Marie
--- In , "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm...methinks I need to study the mind of the medieval male a little more. Have you any suggestions for sources? At the moment I'm wondering how he reconciled killing with a God who order his subjects not to kill.
>
> /start joke
> Unfortunately, since Richard was a devoted Catholic, I doubt he'd respond to a request for an interview if I planned a seance. Darn it.
> /end joke
>
> ~Wednesday
>
> PS. I'm stunned at the seeming lack of arrogance in the prayer he adapted for himself.
>
>
> --- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
>
Marie
--- In , "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm...methinks I need to study the mind of the medieval male a little more. Have you any suggestions for sources? At the moment I'm wondering how he reconciled killing with a God who order his subjects not to kill.
>
> /start joke
> Unfortunately, since Richard was a devoted Catholic, I doubt he'd respond to a request for an interview if I planned a seance. Darn it.
> /end joke
>
> ~Wednesday
>
> PS. I'm stunned at the seeming lack of arrogance in the prayer he adapted for himself.
>
>
> --- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@> wrote:
> >
> > To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-07 20:43:35
Eileen wrote:
>
> Thanks Carol...a good link. Its nice to have all Richard's quotes in once place...
Carol responds:
You're welcome, Eileen. It's not quite all his quotes--for example, the letter to his mother isn't there, and neither is the famous one about Thomas Lynom and Mistress Shore--but it's good to know that at least some of the letters are easily accessible.
Carol
>
> Thanks Carol...a good link. Its nice to have all Richard's quotes in once place...
Carol responds:
You're welcome, Eileen. It's not quite all his quotes--for example, the letter to his mother isn't there, and neither is the famous one about Thomas Lynom and Mistress Shore--but it's good to know that at least some of the letters are easily accessible.
Carol
Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
2012-11-07 20:53:08
Perhaps he read Greek and understood that the Ten Commandments are woefully translated into English.
Then, the Commandment "Thou shall not kill" becomes "You shall not commit murder".
"There is no God but me" becomes "You shall worship no other God but me, for I am a jealous God."
Or perhaps the Bible pre King James had the correct translation?
________________________________
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2012, 2:22
Subject: Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
Hmm...methinks I need to study the mind of the medieval male a little more. Have you any suggestions for sources? At the moment I'm wondering how he reconciled killing with a God who order his subjects not to kill.
/start joke
Unfortunately, since Richard was a devoted Catholic, I doubt he'd respond to a request for an interview if I planned a seance. Darn it.
/end joke
~Wednesday
PS. I'm stunned at the seeming lack of arrogance in the prayer he adapted for himself.
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
Then, the Commandment "Thou shall not kill" becomes "You shall not commit murder".
"There is no God but me" becomes "You shall worship no other God but me, for I am a jealous God."
Or perhaps the Bible pre King James had the correct translation?
________________________________
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 7 November 2012, 2:22
Subject: Re: "Loved" or "Needed"...
Hmm...methinks I need to study the mind of the medieval male a little more. Have you any suggestions for sources? At the moment I'm wondering how he reconciled killing with a God who order his subjects not to kill.
/start joke
Unfortunately, since Richard was a devoted Catholic, I doubt he'd respond to a request for an interview if I planned a seance. Darn it.
/end joke
~Wednesday
PS. I'm stunned at the seeming lack of arrogance in the prayer he adapted for himself.
--- In , Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:
>
> To add to what I wrote earlier, I suspect Richard would have looked blankly at you if you asked the question. His primary relationship would be with God, and if he looked after that, his relationship with his subjects would look after itself. That's not to say that he wouldn't prefer being cheered to being booed, but it's important to remember that a 15th century mindset is very different from a 21st century one, even if the raw emotions remain the same.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
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