The Kings Bed….

Re: King Richard`s Bed&.there are photos and a nice story about the bed used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after the DNA determination.

Are you talking about the bed at Donington Le Heath Manor House
Museum? We accidently stumbled across the place during my 2008 visit.
It's a gorgeous bed but, yeah, it looked rather uncomfortable.

Gilda



On Nov 11, 2012, at 7:23 PM, Carol Darling wrote:

> Re: King Richard`s Bed&.there are photos and a nice story about the
> bed used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the
> inn in which he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was
> modified with a canopy in later years. Underneath the mattress were
> rope suspensions for the mattress, and are believed to be
> originals. Any person who travelled around with his bed, likely had
> back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google. Possibly
> this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
> the DNA determination.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th century.
Marie

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> Re: King Richard`s Bed….there are photos and a nice story about the bed used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after the DNA determination.
>

Hi, Marie -

Ashdown-Hill discusses the bed in a section dealing with the "legends" that
have grown up around Bosworth, some of which, he indicates, may be
completely false while others have some veracity. He talks about Richard
allegedly staying at an inn called the "White Boar," which the owner hastily
switched to the "Blue Boar" after the battle. He says another legend notes
that Richard slept ill in strange beds, and consequently brought and left
his own bed at the inn when he departed for the battlefield, never to
return. He notes that the bed supposedly remained at the inn and a later
owner allegedly in later years found a hoard of Richard's coins in a false
bottom. And that the bed is now on display at Donington-le-Heath Manor
House, Leicestershire. Dr. Ashdown-Hill continues:



"Unfortunately, the Donington bed appears, for the most part, to be a
seventeenth-century construction. Morever, it also differs in detail from an
engraving of Richard III's supposed bed published by John Throsby in 1777.
The differences between the eighteenth-century engraving and the surviving
bed appear greater than can be accounted for by Throsby's report, which
claimed the bed had been lowered by the removal of its feet. It is therefore
questionable whether any part of the Donington bed has any genuine
connection with the king. Moreover, there are other contenders for the rold
of Richard III's bed. Thus, in the final analysis, it is impossible to
ascertain whether any part of the Blue (White) Boar bed story is based upon
fact." (location 1853 of 3953)



I haven't read the footnotes yet to find out what other candidates there are
for Richard's bed. If I get the chance, I'll follow this up when I do.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of mariewalsh2003
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:49 AM
To:
Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..





Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th
century.
Marie

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Darling
<cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress,
and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his
bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google.
Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
the DNA determination.
>

Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in Charlecote House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports to be made from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later that 15th century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they? Eileen

--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Marie -
>
> Ashdown-Hill discusses the bed in a section dealing with the "legends" that
> have grown up around Bosworth, some of which, he indicates, may be
> completely false while others have some veracity. He talks about Richard
> allegedly staying at an inn called the "White Boar," which the owner hastily
> switched to the "Blue Boar" after the battle. He says another legend notes
> that Richard slept ill in strange beds, and consequently brought and left
> his own bed at the inn when he departed for the battlefield, never to
> return. He notes that the bed supposedly remained at the inn and a later
> owner allegedly in later years found a hoard of Richard's coins in a false
> bottom. And that the bed is now on display at Donington-le-Heath Manor
> House, Leicestershire. Dr. Ashdown-Hill continues:
>
>
>
> "Unfortunately, the Donington bed appears, for the most part, to be a
> seventeenth-century construction. Morever, it also differs in detail from an
> engraving of Richard III's supposed bed published by John Throsby in 1777.
> The differences between the eighteenth-century engraving and the surviving
> bed appear greater than can be accounted for by Throsby's report, which
> claimed the bed had been lowered by the removal of its feet. It is therefore
> questionable whether any part of the Donington bed has any genuine
> connection with the king. Moreover, there are other contenders for the rold
> of Richard III's bed. Thus, in the final analysis, it is impossible to
> ascertain whether any part of the Blue (White) Boar bed story is based upon
> fact." (location 1853 of 3953)
>
>
>
> I haven't read the footnotes yet to find out what other candidates there are
> for Richard's bed. If I get the chance, I'll follow this up when I do.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of mariewalsh2003
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:49 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th
> century.
> Marie
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Darling
> <cdarlingart1@> wrote:
> >
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress,
> and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his
> bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google.
> Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
> the DNA determination.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Johanne,

Glad to hear John didn't present the bed as Richard's (that would have been surprising).
I think the problem is that the legend almost certainly arose from the bed rather than the other way around. There is certainly no written evidence of such a legend before the Leicester yarns were picked up.
Marie

--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Marie -
>
> Ashdown-Hill discusses the bed in a section dealing with the "legends" that
> have grown up around Bosworth, some of which, he indicates, may be
> completely false while others have some veracity. He talks about Richard
> allegedly staying at an inn called the "White Boar," which the owner hastily
> switched to the "Blue Boar" after the battle. He says another legend notes
> that Richard slept ill in strange beds, and consequently brought and left
> his own bed at the inn when he departed for the battlefield, never to
> return. He notes that the bed supposedly remained at the inn and a later
> owner allegedly in later years found a hoard of Richard's coins in a false
> bottom. And that the bed is now on display at Donington-le-Heath Manor
> House, Leicestershire. Dr. Ashdown-Hill continues:
>
>
>
> "Unfortunately, the Donington bed appears, for the most part, to be a
> seventeenth-century construction. Morever, it also differs in detail from an
> engraving of Richard III's supposed bed published by John Throsby in 1777.
> The differences between the eighteenth-century engraving and the surviving
> bed appear greater than can be accounted for by Throsby's report, which
> claimed the bed had been lowered by the removal of its feet. It is therefore
> questionable whether any part of the Donington bed has any genuine
> connection with the king. Moreover, there are other contenders for the rold
> of Richard III's bed. Thus, in the final analysis, it is impossible to
> ascertain whether any part of the Blue (White) Boar bed story is based upon
> fact." (location 1853 of 3953)
>
>
>
> I haven't read the footnotes yet to find out what other candidates there are
> for Richard's bed. If I get the chance, I'll follow this up when I do.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of mariewalsh2003
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:49 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th
> century.
> Marie
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Darling
> <cdarlingart1@> wrote:
> >
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress,
> and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his
> bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google.
> Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
> the DNA determination.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This must be the bed that features on Rosemary Suttcliffe's The King's Bed.
The very first novel about Richard that I ever read. Whatever the truth of
the bed, I shall always think fondly of that book.

Karen

From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:41:51 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..






Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in Charlecote
House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports to be made
from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later that 15th
century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they? Eileen

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Johanne Tournier
<jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Marie -
>
> Ashdown-Hill discusses the bed in a section dealing with the "legends" that
> have grown up around Bosworth, some of which, he indicates, may be
> completely false while others have some veracity. He talks about Richard
> allegedly staying at an inn called the "White Boar," which the owner hastily
> switched to the "Blue Boar" after the battle. He says another legend notes
> that Richard slept ill in strange beds, and consequently brought and left
> his own bed at the inn when he departed for the battlefield, never to
> return. He notes that the bed supposedly remained at the inn and a later
> owner allegedly in later years found a hoard of Richard's coins in a false
> bottom. And that the bed is now on display at Donington-le-Heath Manor
> House, Leicestershire. Dr. Ashdown-Hill continues:
>
>
>
> "Unfortunately, the Donington bed appears, for the most part, to be a
> seventeenth-century construction. Morever, it also differs in detail from an
> engraving of Richard III's supposed bed published by John Throsby in 1777.
> The differences between the eighteenth-century engraving and the surviving
> bed appear greater than can be accounted for by Throsby's report, which
> claimed the bed had been lowered by the removal of its feet. It is therefore
> questionable whether any part of the Donington bed has any genuine
> connection with the king. Moreover, there are other contenders for the rold
> of Richard III's bed. Thus, in the final analysis, it is impossible to
> ascertain whether any part of the Blue (White) Boar bed story is based upon
> fact." (location 1853 of 3953)
>
>
>
> I haven't read the footnotes yet to find out what other candidates there are
> for Richard's bed. If I get the chance, I'll follow this up when I do.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mariewalsh2003
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:49 AM
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th
> century.
> Marie
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Darling
> <cdarlingart1@> wrote:
> >
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress,
> and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his
> bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google.
> Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
> the DNA determination.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-)
Paul


On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:

> Re: King Richard`s Bed&.there are photos and a nice story about the bed used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after the DNA determination.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Hi, Paul -

Of course, you're right, but the speculative scenario (i.e. "legend") that
Dr. A-H relates is that Richard spent the night of August 20, 1485, in
Leicester at the (then) White Boar Inn and, leaving his large bed at the
inn, departed Leicester the next day with his forces and then spent the
night before the battle (Aug. 21, 1485) sleeping on his camp bed in his
tent.

It's possible. It's also possible that Richard had more than one bed. Maybe
it's like the American custom of noting "George Washington slept here" w/
regard to certain historic properties.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...

"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
Bale
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:38 PM
To:
Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..

Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a
camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed
has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-) Paul


On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:

> Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the
mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around
with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on
Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or
display, after the DNA determination.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Exactly. But can we do an immediate investigation into the provenance of Richard III's ill-fated smelly chamberpot please?

;) LOL

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-)
> Paul
>
>
> On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed….there are photos and a nice story about the bed used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after the DNA determination.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in Charlecote House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports to be made from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later that 15th century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they? Eileen



The American counterpart is the number of New England inns that claim that George Washington slept there. As some historian said, if Washington slept that much, he wouldn't have had time to fight the Revolutionary War.

Katy

Is that where he shagged some sort?

--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Paul -
>
> Of course, you're right, but the speculative scenario (i.e. "legend") that
> Dr. A-H relates is that Richard spent the night of August 20, 1485, in
> Leicester at the (then) White Boar Inn and, leaving his large bed at the
> inn, departed Leicester the next day with his forces and then spent the
> night before the battle (Aug. 21, 1485) sleeping on his camp bed in his
> tent.
>
> It's possible. It's also possible that Richard had more than one bed. Maybe
> it's like the American custom of noting "George Washington slept here" w/
> regard to certain historic properties.
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
> or jltournier@...
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
> - Jesus of Nazareth
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
> Bale
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:38 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
> Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a
> camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed
> has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-) Paul
>
>
> On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the
> mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around
> with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on
> Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or
> display, after the DNA determination.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

The only problem with this story/legend of Richard spending the night at the White Boar Inn in Leicester is that there was a perfectly good castle there...Eileen

--- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Paul -
>
> Of course, you're right, but the speculative scenario (i.e. "legend") that
> Dr. A-H relates is that Richard spent the night of August 20, 1485, in
> Leicester at the (then) White Boar Inn and, leaving his large bed at the
> inn, departed Leicester the next day with his forces and then spent the
> night before the battle (Aug. 21, 1485) sleeping on his camp bed in his
> tent.
>
> It's possible. It's also possible that Richard had more than one bed. Maybe
> it's like the American custom of noting "George Washington slept here" w/
> regard to certain historic properties.
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
> or jltournier@...
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
> - Jesus of Nazareth
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
> Bale
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:38 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
> Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a
> camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed
> has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-) Paul
>
>
> On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:
>
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the
> mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around
> with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on
> Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or
> display, after the DNA determination.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Johanne,
>
> Glad to hear John didn't present the bed as Richard's (that would have been surprising).
> I think the problem is that the legend almost certainly arose from the bed rather than the other way around. There is certainly no written evidence of such a legend before the Leicester yarns were picked up.
> Marie

Carol responds:

Richard obviously slept somewhere, presumably at an inn in Leicester, before he camped at Bosworth, but I agree with you that there's no substance to this legend. My theory is that the legend of a traveling bed stems from the doubtful testimony of the Croyland Chronicler (which is at best second-hand and probably at least third hand if he got it from Morton) that Richard slept poorly on the night of Bosworth, which was later attributed to fear of divine retribution for his various "crimes." I would love to see the bed myth put to rest, along with the story of his heel striking the bridge and the old crone crying out that his head would strike that same spot--obviously, IMO, a "prophecy" invented after his death. Or rather, I'd love to see both myths (figuratively) thrown into the River Soar.

Carol

Indeed. This is the scenario: Old flat-pack bed in Leicester inn turns out to be full of gold. Speculation begins - must have been somebody rich who couldn't come back for it.......
Marie

--- In , "oregon_katy" <oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in Charlecote House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports to be made from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later that 15th century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they? Eileen
>
>
>
> The American counterpart is the number of New England inns that claim that George Washington slept there. As some historian said, if Washington slept that much, he wouldn't have had time to fight the Revolutionary War.
>
> Katy
>

And it was repaired using parts of the original cross and nails!



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of mariewalsh2003
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 1:34 PM
To:
Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..





Indeed. This is the scenario: Old flat-pack bed in Leicester inn turns out
to be full of gold. Speculation begins - must have been somebody rich who
couldn't come back for it.......
Marie

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "oregon_katy"
<oregon_katy@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "EileenB"
<cherryripe.eileenb@> wrote:
> >
> > Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in
Charlecote House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports
to be made from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later
that 15th century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they?
Eileen
>
>
>
> The American counterpart is the number of New England inns that claim that
George Washington slept there. As some historian said, if Washington slept
that much, he wouldn't have had time to fight the Revolutionary War.
>
> Katy
>

I thought Margaret Campbell Barnes wrote The King's Bed.
 
I remembered reading it when I was a teenager.
 
Helen


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2012 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: Re: The Kings Bed..


 

This must be the bed that features on Rosemary Suttcliffe's The King's Bed.
The very first novel about Richard that I ever read. Whatever the truth of
the bed, I shall always think fondly of that book.

Karen

From: EileenB <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:41:51 -0000
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..

Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in Charlecote
House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports to be made
from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later that 15th
century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they? Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Johanne Tournier
<jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Marie -
>
> Ashdown-Hill discusses the bed in a section dealing with the "legends" that
> have grown up around Bosworth, some of which, he indicates, may be
> completely false while others have some veracity. He talks about Richard
> allegedly staying at an inn called the "White Boar," which the owner hastily
> switched to the "Blue Boar" after the battle. He says another legend notes
> that Richard slept ill in strange beds, and consequently brought and left
> his own bed at the inn when he departed for the battlefield, never to
> return. He notes that the bed supposedly remained at the inn and a later
> owner allegedly in later years found a hoard of Richard's coins in a false
> bottom. And that the bed is now on display at Donington-le-Heath Manor
> House, Leicestershire. Dr. Ashdown-Hill continues:
>
>
>
> "Unfortunately, the Donington bed appears, for the most part, to be a
> seventeenth-century construction. Morever, it also differs in detail from an
> engraving of Richard III's supposed bed published by John Throsby in 1777.
> The differences between the eighteenth-century engraving and the surviving
> bed appear greater than can be accounted for by Throsby's report, which
> claimed the bed had been lowered by the removal of its feet. It is therefore
> questionable whether any part of the Donington bed has any genuine
> connection with the king. Moreover, there are other contenders for the rold
> of Richard III's bed. Thus, in the final analysis, it is impossible to
> ascertain whether any part of the Blue (White) Boar bed story is based upon
> fact." (location 1853 of 3953)
>
>
>
> I haven't read the footnotes yet to find out what other candidates there are
> for Richard's bed. If I get the chance, I'll follow this up when I do.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of mariewalsh2003
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:49 AM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th
> century.
> Marie
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Darling
> <cdarlingart1@> wrote:
> >
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress,
> and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his
> bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google.
> Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
> the DNA determination.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, Margaret Campbell Barnes. Brain freeze, sorry. That It's sitting on a
shelf within arm's reach just makes my mistake worse.

Karen

From: Helen Rowe <sweethelly2003@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:32:44 -0800 (PST)
To: ""
<>
Subject: Re: Re: The Kings Bed..






I thought Margaret Campbell Barnes wrote The King's Bed.

I remembered reading it when I was a teenager.

Helen


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...
<mailto:Ragged_staff%40bigpond.com> >
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 13 November 2012 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: Re: The Kings Bed..




This must be the bed that features on Rosemary Suttcliffe's The King's Bed.
The very first novel about Richard that I ever read. Whatever the truth of
the bed, I shall always think fondly of that book.

Karen

From: EileenB <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:41:51 -0000
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..

Lol...this bed certainly did the rounds....There is a chair in Charlecote
House, a National Trust property in Warwickshire, that purports to be made
from parts of Richard's bed...I thought it looked rather later that 15th
century...but there you go....People love a legend don't they? Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Johanne Tournier
<jltournier60@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Marie -
>
> Ashdown-Hill discusses the bed in a section dealing with the "legends" that
> have grown up around Bosworth, some of which, he indicates, may be
> completely false while others have some veracity. He talks about Richard
> allegedly staying at an inn called the "White Boar," which the owner hastily
> switched to the "Blue Boar" after the battle. He says another legend notes
> that Richard slept ill in strange beds, and consequently brought and left
> his own bed at the inn when he departed for the battlefield, never to
> return. He notes that the bed supposedly remained at the inn and a later
> owner allegedly in later years found a hoard of Richard's coins in a false
> bottom. And that the bed is now on display at Donington-le-Heath Manor
> House, Leicestershire. Dr. Ashdown-Hill continues:
>
>
>
> "Unfortunately, the Donington bed appears, for the most part, to be a
> seventeenth-century construction. Morever, it also differs in detail from an
> engraving of Richard III's supposed bed published by John Throsby in 1777.
> The differences between the eighteenth-century engraving and the surviving
> bed appear greater than can be accounted for by Throsby's report, which
> claimed the bed had been lowered by the removal of its feet. It is therefore
> questionable whether any part of the Donington bed has any genuine
> connection with the king. Moreover, there are other contenders for the rold
> of Richard III's bed. Thus, in the final analysis, it is impossible to
> ascertain whether any part of the Blue (White) Boar bed story is based upon
> fact." (location 1853 of 3953)
>
>
>
> I haven't read the footnotes yet to find out what other candidates there are
> for Richard's bed. If I get the chance, I'll follow this up when I do.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
mariewalsh2003
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:49 AM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I hope John A-H didn't say this was Richard's bed, did he? It's 17th
> century.
> Marie
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Carol Darling
> <cdarlingart1@> wrote:
> >
> > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the mattress,
> and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around with his
> bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on Google.
> Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or display, after
> the DNA determination.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Katy wrote:

"The American counterpart is the number of New England inns that claim that
George Washington slept there. As some historian said, if Washington slept
that much, he wouldn't have had time to fight the Revolutionary War."

Much would depend on WHEN Washington was supposed to have slept in a
particular inn. During his first administration he made a tour of New
England lasting most of the summer. During that tour he would usually spend
the night in an inn rather than at a private home, giving as the reason the
bother his staying would cause the individual and his family.
More importantly, by staying at an inn Washington avoided upsetting all
those he would have by NOT choosing THEIR home as a resting place. Most
higher-up military leaders are fairly good politicians, whether they
acknowledge it or not.
Doug

Maybe the ale was good.

Marion Z
--- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
>
> The only problem with this story/legend of Richard spending the night at the White Boar Inn in Leicester is that there was a perfectly good castle there...Eileen
>
> --- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Paul -
> >
> > Of course, you're right, but the speculative scenario (i.e. "legend") that
> > Dr. A-H relates is that Richard spent the night of August 20, 1485, in
> > Leicester at the (then) White Boar Inn and, leaving his large bed at the
> > inn, departed Leicester the next day with his forces and then spent the
> > night before the battle (Aug. 21, 1485) sleeping on his camp bed in his
> > tent.
> >
> > It's possible. It's also possible that Richard had more than one bed. Maybe
> > it's like the American custom of noting "George Washington slept here" w/
> > regard to certain historic properties.
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> > or jltournier@
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > [mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
> > Bale
> > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:38 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
> >
> > Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a
> > camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed
> > has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-) Paul
> >
> >
> > On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> >
> > > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> > used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> > he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> > later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the
> > mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around
> > with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on
> > Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or
> > display, after the DNA determination.
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
>

Hahaha. Good one.
They should have a " Like" button here like Facebook!

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Nov 13, 2012, at 9:28 AM, "marionziemke" <marionziemke@...> wrote:

>
> Maybe the ale was good.
>
> Marion Z
> --- In , "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
> >
> > The only problem with this story/legend of Richard spending the night at the White Boar Inn in Leicester is that there was a perfectly good castle there...Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Paul -
> > >
> > > Of course, you're right, but the speculative scenario (i.e. "legend") that
> > > Dr. A-H relates is that Richard spent the night of August 20, 1485, in
> > > Leicester at the (then) White Boar Inn and, leaving his large bed at the
> > > inn, departed Leicester the next day with his forces and then spent the
> > > night before the battle (Aug. 21, 1485) sleeping on his camp bed in his
> > > tent.
> > >
> > > It's possible. It's also possible that Richard had more than one bed. Maybe
> > > it's like the American custom of noting "George Washington slept here" w/
> > > regard to certain historic properties.
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Johanne L. Tournier
> > >
> > > Email - jltournier60@
> > > or jltournier@
> > >
> > > "With God, all things are possible."
> > > - Jesus of Nazareth
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> > > [mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
> > > Bale
> > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:38 PM
> > > To:
> > > Subject: Re: The Kings Bed..
> > >
> > > Of course this isn't the bed Richard slept in. He would probably have had a
> > > camp bed that he would have used in his tent. The bed being called his bed
> > > has not survived any tests in terms or age or veracity! :-) Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On 12 Nov 2012, at 00:23, Carol Darling wrote:
> > >
> > > > Re: King Richard`s Bed..there are photos and a nice story about the bed
> > > used by Richard before Bosworth, as well as descriptions of the inn in which
> > > he stayed. The bed remains to this day and was modified with a canopy in
> > > later years. Underneath the mattress were rope suspensions for the
> > > mattress, and are believed to be originals. Any person who travelled around
> > > with his bed, likely had back problems. I believe I remember seeng this on
> > > Google. Possibly this bed can be included in the eventual museum or
> > > display, after the DNA determination.
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
>
>