BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen

http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/

What'd ya think?

Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.

My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.

Brian W.

--- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

> And the armour looks way too early.

Armour's almost always wrong in TV productions - I assume because (a) chain mail and a cuirass is a lot cheaper than full plate and (b) it's generally hired from stock, so the aesthetic becomes self-perpetuating.  A friend of mine was tangentially involved in the recent BBC 'Henry V' and - leaving aside the fact that costume and armour was generally wrong - he mentioned that principals got the "real" stuff and the further away you were from the camera, you ended up with rubber and even wool (which may work for mail, but it's difficult to knit a suit of 15th century gothic!).
Jonathan

P.S.  Meant to add I read 'Alianore Audley' the other week and loved it.



________________________________
From: Brian <wainwright.brian@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.

My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.

Brian W.

--- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors'  Hilary



________________________________
From: Brian <wainwright.brian@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 

Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.

My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.

Brian W.

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

I love Alianore too Brian! It's surprising how some reviewers tried to take it seriously. Hilary



________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 10:27
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 

> And the armour looks way too early.

Armour's almost always wrong in TV productions - I assume because (a) chain mail and a cuirass is a lot cheaper than full plate and (b) it's generally hired from stock, so the aesthetic becomes self-perpetuating.  A friend of mine was tangentially involved in the recent BBC 'Henry V' and - leaving aside the fact that costume and armour was generally wrong - he mentioned that principals got the "real" stuff and the further away you were from the camera, you ended up with rubber and even wool (which may work for mail, but it's difficult to knit a suit of 15th century gothic!).
Jonathan

P.S.  Meant to add I read 'Alianore Audley' the other week and loved it.

________________________________
From: Brian <mailto:wainwright.brian%40googlemail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.

My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.

Brian W.

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
Paul


On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:

> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>
>
> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>
> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>
> Brian W.
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>
>> What'd ya think?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Would she have carried orb and sceptre? If so, there was more to
medieval queenship than I had suspected!

Best wishes
Christine

On 23/11/2012 08:57, Brian wrote:
> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>
> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>
> Brian W.
>
>

I was a simple crowning I seem to recall. No sceptres, orbs, batons or any other regalia.
Paul

On 23 Nov 2012, at 11:14, Christine Headley wrote:

>
> Would she have carried orb and sceptre? If so, there was more to
> medieval queenship than I had suspected!
>
> Best wishes
> Christine
>
> On 23/11/2012 08:57, Brian wrote:
>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>
>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>
>> Brian W.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.

I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.

Marie


--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> Paul
>
>
> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@...>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >
> > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >
> > Brian W.
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>
> >> What'd ya think?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Who is the greater fool: the fool or the fool who follows?! (OBWAN)
But seriously, who wants to keep her in a feckin' living?

--- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

MMMMMM...

...knee-length STOCKINGS....

>>>rolls tongue up off floor<<<

--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>
> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>
> Marie
>
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > >
> > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > >
> > > Brian W.
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > >>
> > >> What'd ya think?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>

Behave!  How naughty can you get?  :-) 



________________________________
From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 20:29
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen

 
MMMMMM...

...knee-length STOCKINGS....

>>>rolls tongue up off floor<<<

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>
> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>
> Marie
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > >
> > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > >
> > > Brian W.
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > >>
> > >> What'd ya think?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>

Is it not a similar situation with those people that hike their phone bills up to vote for XFactor contestants which is rigged in anyway....Eileen

--- In , "blancsanglier1452" <blancsanglier1452@...> wrote:
>
> Who is the greater fool: the fool or the fool who follows?! (OBWAN)
> But seriously, who wants to keep her in a feckin' living?
>
> --- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >
> > What'd ya think?
> >
>

MacBeth was followed on the throne of Scotland by his adopted/stepson Lulach the Fool.


________________________________
From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 20:24
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Who is the greater fool: the fool or the fool who follows?! (OBWAN)
But seriously, who wants to keep her in a feckin' living?

--- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

Just be grateful the men don't all have full beards. 

Not impressed with Elizabeth. Edward could have had the pick of Europe's royal princesses and he chose this lady?


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 11:10
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
Paul

On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:

> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>
>
> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>
> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>
> Brian W.
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>>
>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>
>> What'd ya think?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Lulach lived in a Scotland where tanistry prevailed over primogeniture. So did the Roman Emperors of C1 and C2, the earlier ones being already related.

Under English common law, adoption precludes the inheritance of a title or crown. Goodness alone knows what it would make of surrogacy, egg/ sperm donation, IVF as these have not been tested. It can cope with legitimisation when both parents were free to marry at the time of birth and has always allowed this.

----- Original Message -----
From: david rayner
To:
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen



MacBeth was followed on the throne of Scotland by his adopted/stepson Lulach the Fool.

________________________________
From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 20:24
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen



Who is the greater fool: the fool or the fool who follows?! (OBWAN)
But seriously, who wants to keep her in a feckin' living?

--- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>
> What'd ya think?
>

Elizabeth looks a stifle wooden to me.......I wanna see Dickon!!!!

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Nov 23, 2012, at 4:13 PM, david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

> Just be grateful the men don't all have full beards.
>
> Not impressed with Elizabeth. Edward could have had the pick of Europe's royal princesses and he chose this lady?
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 11:10
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>
> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> Paul
>
> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@...>
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >
> > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >
> > Brian W.
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@...> wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>
> >> What'd ya think?
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>

Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)

As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.

Brian W



--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
>
> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>
> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>
> Marie
>
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > >
> > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > >
> > > Brian W.
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > >>
> > >> What'd ya think?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>

Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen

--- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>
> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>
> Brian W
>
>
>
> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >
> > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >
> > Marie
> >
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > >
> > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > >
> > > > Brian W.
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > >>
> > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> >
>

...so that's where Obi-Wan got it from...!!! Cheers David ;)

--- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> MacBeth was followed on the throne of Scotland by his adopted/stepson Lulach the Fool.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 20:24
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> Who is the greater fool: the fool or the fool who follows?! (OBWAN)
> But seriously, who wants to keep her in a feckin' living?
>
> --- In , "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >
> > What'd ya think?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes, and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.

For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.

Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read "modern") features to their attire,,,,

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen

--- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>
> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>
> Brian W
>
>
>
> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >
> > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >
> > Marie
> >
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > >
> > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > >
> > > > Brian W.
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > >>
> > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> >
>

This is what I feared Judy...although what could be more flattering to a woman than the Burgundian style gowns and beautiful hennins with their graceful veils of the period...sigh...Eileen


> Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read "modern") features to their attire,,,,
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >
> > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > >
> > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian W.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, not every actor or actress wants to look "weird." On the other hand, some are very accommodating and actually encourage the designers to make them look "real" as possible. Malkovich, when he played the Earl of Rochester, was - to his credit - willing to endure all sorts of tight-fitting and unflattering bits. (What I chiefly remember from The Libertine were the yards and yards of orange silk; beautiful stuff but it put me off orange for a while.)

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
This is what I feared Judy...although what could be more flattering to a woman than the Burgundian style gowns and beautiful hennins with their graceful veils of the period...sigh...Eileen

> Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read "modern") features to their attire,,,,
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >
> > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > >
> > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian W.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Those hennins, however, often require a shaved forehead and eyebrows, with liberal application of white facial makeup to be really authentic. 

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
This is what I feared Judy...although what could be more flattering to a woman than the Burgundian style gowns and beautiful hennins with their graceful veils of the period...sigh...Eileen

> Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read "modern") features to their attire,,,,
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >
> > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > >
> > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian W.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Also, the silhouette was big bellied and wide-hipped, with tiny bosom; think of a "C" shape, with the headdress curving back to form the top of that letter.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
This is what I feared Judy...although what could be more flattering to a woman than the Burgundian style gowns and beautiful hennins with their graceful veils of the period...sigh...Eileen

> Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read "modern") features to their attire,,,,
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >
> > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > >
> > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian W.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.

I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.

Karen

From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
To: ""
<>
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen






In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.

For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
(rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.

Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
"modern") features to their attire,,,,

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...
<mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
Queen



Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
science? Its a shame..Eileen

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
<wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a
lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting
proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see
medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead
like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat,
and she was Low Church C of E.)
>
> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least
at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage
alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>
> Brian W
>
>
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors -
the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet
in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >
> > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters
just weren't sexy enough.
> >
> > Marie
> >
> >
> > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
<paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as
they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This
looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have
carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation.
Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > >
> > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this
series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might
have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > >
> > > > Brian W.
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
<bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > >>
> > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> >
>

All through human history, various garments have been worn that "tamed" the body to conform to certain notions of beauty. Usually women (but sometimes men) have been variously cinched and bound, and these garments dictated the way people stood, sat, walked, danced. If everyone in a film or play wore strictly accurate clothes, we'd note their movements to be stiff and "wooden" in many instances.

A similar sensibility applies to language (though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too). If people spoke as they really did, we'd barely understand some of it, or else think them pompous-sounding. Even silly. So it's always a balancing act, and tough to get right: a tone which strikes us as "in period," yet modern enough, we don't miss out on meaning.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.

I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.

Karen

From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
To: ""
<>
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen

In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.

For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
(rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.

Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
"modern") features to their attire,,,,

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...
<mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
Queen


Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
science? Its a shame..Eileen

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
<wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>
> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a
lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting
proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see
medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead
like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat,
and she was Low Church C of E.)
>
> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least
at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage
alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>
> Brian W
>
>
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors -
the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet
in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >
> > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters
just weren't sexy enough.
> >
> > Marie
> >
> >
> > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
<paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as
they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This
looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have
carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation.
Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > >
> > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this
series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might
have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > >
> > > > Brian W.
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
<bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > >>
> > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> >
>

...H'mmm.

...My brother's got a cockney brother...

I'll warn him!!!

;)

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

(though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
>
> I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
>
> Karen
>
> From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> To: ""
> <>
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> White Queen
>
> In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
>
> For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
>
> Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> "modern") features to their attire,,,,
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...
> <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> Queen
>
>
> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a
> lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting
> proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see
> medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead
> like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat,
> and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least
> at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage
> alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors -
> the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet
> in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >
> > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters
> just weren't sexy enough.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as
> they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This
> looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> White Queen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have
> carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation.
> Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > >
> > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this
> series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might
> have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian W.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
> n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, I'm assuming in Karen's example, the combo would have been impossible (like giving Clarence a Cockney accent in the Shakespeare play - where would he have acquired it?)

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
...H'mmm.

...My brother's got a cockney brother...

I'll warn him!!!

;)

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

(though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
>
> I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
>
> Karen
>
> From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
> Reply-To: <>
> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> To: ""
> <>
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> White Queen
>
> In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
>
> For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
>
> Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> "modern") features to their attire,,,,
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...
> <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> Queen
>
>
> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a
> lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting
> proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see
> medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead
> like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat,
> and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least
> at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage
> alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors -
> the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet
> in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >
> > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters
> just weren't sexy enough.
> > >
> > > Marie
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as
> they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This
> looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > To:
> <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> White Queen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have
> carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation.
> Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > >
> > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this
> series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might
> have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian W.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
> n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

...RADA?

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm assuming in Karen's example, the combo would have been impossible (like giving Clarence a Cockney accent in the Shakespeare play - where would he have acquired it?)
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> ...H'mmm.
>
> ...My brother's got a cockney brother...
>
> I'll warn him!!!
>
> ;)
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> (though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
> >
> > Judy
> >  
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >
> >
> >  
> > It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> > inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> > applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> > reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> > wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> > wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> > angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> > altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> > found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> > husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
> >
> > I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@>
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> > To: ""
> > <>
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> > White Queen
> >
> > In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> > all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> > and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
> >
> > For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> > accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> > (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> > redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> > sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
> >
> > Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> > "modern") features to their attire,,,,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@
> > <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> > To:
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> > Queen
> >
> >
> > Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> > costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> > to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> > science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >
> > --- In
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> > <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a
> > lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting
> > proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> > idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see
> > medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead
> > like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat,
> > and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >
> > > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> > memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> > queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least
> > at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> > crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage
> > alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >
> > > Brian W
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors -
> > the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet
> > in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> > skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters
> > just weren't sexy enough.
> > > >
> > > > Marie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as
> > they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This
> > looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > > To:
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> > White Queen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have
> > carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation.
> > Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this
> > series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> > weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might
> > have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian W.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> > <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
> > n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

With Anthony LaPaglia (the Cockney with the Mancunian sister in question)
I'm pretty sure it was NIDA. Same thing, really, just in a different
hemisphere.

Karen

From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:52:21 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen






...RADA?

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm assuming in Karen's example, the combo would have been impossible
(like giving Clarence a Cockney accent in the Shakespeare play - where would he
have acquired it?)
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
Queen
>
>
> Â
> ...H'mmm.
>
> ...My brother's got a cockney brother...
>
> I'll warn him!!!
>
> ;)
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> (though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
> >
> > Judy
> > ÂÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@>
> > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen
> >
> >
> > ÂÂ
> > It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> > inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> > applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> > reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> > wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> > wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> > angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> > altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> > found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> > husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
> >
> > I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@>
> > Reply-To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> > To: "
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> "
> > <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> > White Queen
> >
> > In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> > all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> > and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
> >
> > For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> > accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> > (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> > redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> > sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
> >
> > Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> > "modern") features to their attire,,,,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@
> > <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> > Queen
> >
> >
> > Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> > costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> > to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> > science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >
> > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> > <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors
where a
> > lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance
meeting
> > proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> > idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to
see
> > medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen
dead
> > like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a
hat,
> > and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >
> > > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> > memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> > queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at
least
> > at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> > crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by
marriage
> > alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >
> > > Brian W
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003
<no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The
Tudors -
> > the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and
velvet
> > in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> > skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with
garters
> > just weren't sexy enough.
> > > >
> > > > Marie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But
as
> > they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department.
This
> > looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from
PG's
> > White Queen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would
have
> > carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her
Coronation.
> > Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of
this
> > series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> > weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it
might
> > have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian W.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> > <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> >
http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
> > n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I had a cockney brother once. But he moved back up north, so he's all right now.


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 24 November 2012, 16:58
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
With Anthony LaPaglia (the Cockney with the Mancunian sister in question)
I'm pretty sure it was NIDA. Same thing, really, just in a different
hemisphere.

Karen

From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:52:21 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen

...RADA?

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm assuming in Karen's example, the combo would have been impossible
(like giving Clarence a Cockney accent in the Shakespeare play - where would he
have acquired it?)
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
Queen
>
>
> Â
> ...H'mmm.
>
> ...My brother's got a cockney brother...
>
> I'll warn him!!!
>
> ;)
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> (though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@>
> > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> > inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> > applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> > reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> > wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> > wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> > angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> > altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> > found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> > husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
> >
> > I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@>
> > Reply-To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> > To: "
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> "
> > <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> > White Queen
> >
> > In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> > all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> > and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
> >
> > For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> > accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> > (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> > redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> > sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
> >
> > Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> > "modern") features to their attire,,,,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@
> > <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> > Queen
> >
> >
> > Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> > costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> > to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> > science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >
> > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> > <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors
where a
> > lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance
meeting
> > proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> > idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to
see
> > medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen
dead
> > like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a
hat,
> > and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >
> > > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> > memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> > queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at
least
> > at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> > crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by
marriage
> > alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >
> > > Brian W
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003
<no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The
Tudors -
> > the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and
velvet
> > in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> > skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with
garters
> > just weren't sexy enough.
> > > >
> > > > Marie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But
as
> > they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department.
This
> > looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from
PG's
> > White Queen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would
have
> > carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her
Coronation.
> > Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of
this
> > series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> > weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it
might
> > have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian W.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> > <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> >
http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-productio
> > n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

My husband is almost a Cockney. If we ever make that trip to the UK, I shall
have a hard time getting him north of Watford.

Karen

From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 00:02:16 +0000 (GMT)
To: ""
<>
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen






I had a cockney brother once. But he moved back up north, so he's all right
now.

________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...
<mailto:Ragged_staff%40bigpond.com> >
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 24 November 2012, 16:58
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen



With Anthony LaPaglia (the Cockney with the Mancunian sister in question)
I'm pretty sure it was NIDA. Same thing, really, just in a different
hemisphere.

Karen

From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...
<mailto:blancsanglier1452%40yahoo.com> >
Reply-To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:52:21 -0000
To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen

...RADA?

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm assuming in Karen's example, the combo would have been impossible
(like giving Clarence a Cockney accent in the Shakespeare play - where would
he
have acquired it?)
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
Queen
>
>
> Â
> ...H'mmm.
>
> ...My brother's got a cockney brother...
>
> I'll warn him!!!
>
> ;)
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> (though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@>
> > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> > inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> > applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> > reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> > wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> > wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> > angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> > altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> > found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> > husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
> >
> > I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@>
> > Reply-To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> > To: "
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> "
> > <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> > White Queen
> >
> > In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> > all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> > and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
> >
> > For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> > accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> > (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> > redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> > sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
> >
> > Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> > "modern") features to their attire,,,,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@
> > <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> > Queen
> >
> >
> > Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> > costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> > to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> > science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >
> > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> > <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors
where a
> > lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance
meeting
> > proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> > idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to
see
> > medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen
dead
> > like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a
hat,
> > and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >
> > > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> > memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> > queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at
least
> > at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> > crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by
marriage
> > alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >
> > > Brian W
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003
<no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The
Tudors -
> > the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and
velvet
> > in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> > skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with
garters
> > just weren't sexy enough.
> > > >
> > > > Marie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But
as
> > they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department.
This
> > looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > > To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from
PG's
> > White Queen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would
have
> > carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her
Coronation.
> > Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of
this
> > series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> > weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it
might
> > have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian W.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> > <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> >
http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-produ
ctio
> > n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I maintain that the best historical films are made not by us Brits, but by he French. To prove my point I just watched a French film about the last days of Louis XI, Richard's enemy. The accuracy of the settings and costumes was amazing, particularly the casting of the king and his eldest daughter, Anne, the lady who stood up in the French assembly in 1484 and accused Richard of killing his nephews. She at the time was Regent for her young brother, and had close cousins desperate to get hold of power, and in one case, the crown. She looked so much like the portraits it sent a shiver down my spine. Showing from time to time on French channel TV5Monde which now broadcasts through Sky with English subtitles if your French isn't up to it!
Paul

On 24 Nov 2012, at 09:31, Brian wrote:

> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>
> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>
> Brian W
>
>
>
> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>
>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>
>> Marie
>>
>>
>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>
>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>
>>>> Brian W.
>>>>
>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>
>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
Paul

On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:

> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>>
>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>
>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>
>> Brian W
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>
>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>
>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

What's north of Watford?  Watford Gap (English joke)
 
 
Someone I used to work with once said she was going "up north" for a wedding - it was in Stevenage!


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 0:07
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen

 
My husband is almost a Cockney. If we ever make that trip to the UK, I shall
have a hard time getting him north of Watford.

Karen

From: david rayner <mailto:theblackprussian%40yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 00:02:16 +0000 (GMT)
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen

I had a cockney brother once. But he moved back up north, so he's all right
now.

________________________________
From: Karen Clark <mailto:Ragged_staff%40bigpond.com
<mailto:Ragged_staff%40bigpond.com> >
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 24 November 2012, 16:58
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen


With Anthony LaPaglia (the Cockney with the Mancunian sister in question)
I'm pretty sure it was NIDA. Same thing, really, just in a different
hemisphere.

Karen

From: blancsanglier1452 <mailto:blancsanglier1452%40yahoo.com
<mailto:blancsanglier1452%40yahoo.com> >
Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:52:21 -0000
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen

...RADA?

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm assuming in Karen's example, the combo would have been impossible
(like giving Clarence a Cockney accent in the Shakespeare play - where would
he
have acquired it?)
>
> Judy
> Â
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: blancsanglier1452 <blancsanglier1452@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
Queen
>
>
> Â
> ...H'mmm.
>
> ...My brother's got a cockney brother...
>
> I'll warn him!!!
>
> ;)
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Judy Thomson
<judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
>
> (though someone having a Cockney brother would bother me, too
> >
> > Judy
> > ÃÂ
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
White Queen
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > It's interesting that things that cause some people angst and grief (eg
> > inaccurate costumes) don't bother others at all. I'm sure the reverse
> > applies as well. As Judy says, there are probably some very practical
> > reasons for some of it. As I'm fashion blind (in any era) I probably
> > wouldn't notice it unless it was glaringly wrong. And, I guess, the things I
> > wouldn't notice might be glaringly wrong to others! The stuff that causes me
> > angst and grief is often to do with language, and that passes some people by
> > altogether. In Frasier, for example, Daphne (who's a Mancunian) suddenly
> > found herself with a vaguely Cockney brother. "Why does it matter?" my
> > husband said. I just stared at him in disbelief.
> >
> > I am happy to be guided, and learn, the importance of getting clothes right.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@>
> > Reply-To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 06:43:05 -0800 (PST)
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> "
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
> > Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's
> > White Queen
> >
> > In all my years of costuming, I tried to making the details correct. By in
> > all fairness to the designers, they are subject to their director's wishes,
> > and sometimes these are connected to other considerations.
> >
> > For example, when I was a green girl, I dressed a character in a very
> > accurate 1830s gown, complete with great puffy sleeves. But the director
> > (rightfully) complained you couldn't see subtle arm movements, and I had to
> > redo the design with a much more fitted sleeve, reserving the pouf for the
> > sleeve caps only. Quite wrong, but it was what was needed.
> >
> > Designers are also often instructed to give characters more flattering (read
> > "modern") features to their attire,,,,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@
> > <mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com> >
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White
> > Queen
> >
> >
> > Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the
> > costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around
> > to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket
> > science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian"
> > <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors
where a
> > lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance
meeting
> > proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no
> > idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to
see
> > medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen
dead
> > like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a
hat,
> > and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >
> > > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my
> > memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval
> > queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at
least
> > at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being
> > crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by
marriage
> > alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >
> > > Brian W
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , mariewalsh2003
<no_reply@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The
Tudors -
> > the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and
velvet
> > in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their
> > skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with
garters
> > just weren't sexy enough.
> > > >
> > > > Marie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Paul Trevor Bale
> > <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But
as
> > they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > > > Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department.
This
> > looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > > > > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from
PG's
> > White Queen
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would
have
> > carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her
Coronation.
> > Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of
this
> > series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the
> > weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it
might
> > have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brian W.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi"
> > <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> >
http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-produ
ctio
> > n-of-the-white-queen/
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What'd ya think?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

What's it called?
 
Liz


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 10:56
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen

 
I maintain that the best historical films are made not by us Brits, but by he French. To prove my point I just watched a French film about the last days of Louis XI, Richard's enemy. The accuracy of the settings and costumes was amazing, particularly the casting of the king and his eldest daughter, Anne, the lady who stood up in the French assembly in 1484 and accused Richard of killing his nephews. She at the time was Regent for her young brother, and had close cousins desperate to get hold of power, and in one case, the crown. She looked so much like the portraits it sent a shiver down my spine. Showing from time to time on French channel TV5Monde which now broadcasts through Sky with English subtitles if your French isn't up to it!
Paul

On 24 Nov 2012, at 09:31, Brian wrote:

> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>
> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>
> Brian W
>
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>
>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>
>> Marie
>>
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>
>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>
>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>
>>>> Brian W.
>>>>
>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>
>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

I saw those costumes from the TV show, close up. Nuts and bolts, etc. It inspired me later to create stuff from castoffs for the children's theatre, the best project being our Climate Change show, where everything was made from recycled bits (imagine a coral reef made from old knitted scarves, hats, and gloves...) and the kids loved it!

But I've also been on the doormat end of productions, where directors have deliberately changed authentic designs to suit other theatrical "needs" (which have included actor vanity).

Judy 
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
Paul

On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:

> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>
> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@...> wrote:
>>
>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>
>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>
>> Brian W
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>
>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>> To:
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>
>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Can we get it in Netflix?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Nov 25, 2012, at 6:53 AM, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:

> What's it called?
>
> Liz
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 10:56
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
> I maintain that the best historical films are made not by us Brits, but by he French. To prove my point I just watched a French film about the last days of Louis XI, Richard's enemy. The accuracy of the settings and costumes was amazing, particularly the casting of the king and his eldest daughter, Anne, the lady who stood up in the French assembly in 1484 and accused Richard of killing his nephews. She at the time was Regent for her young brother, and had close cousins desperate to get hold of power, and in one case, the crown. She looked so much like the portraits it sent a shiver down my spine. Showing from time to time on French channel TV5Monde which now broadcasts through Sky with English subtitles if your French isn't up to it!
> Paul
>
> On 24 Nov 2012, at 09:31, Brian wrote:
>
> > Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >
> > As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >
> > Brian W
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >>
> >> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >>
> >> Marie
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> >>> Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> >>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> >>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >>>>
> >>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brian W.
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What'd ya think?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>

Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> Paul
>
> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
>
> > Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >
> > --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >>
> >> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >>
> >> Brian W
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >>>
> >>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >>>
> >>> Marie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> >>>> Paul
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> >>>>> To:
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> >>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brian W.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What'd ya think?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Eileen wrote:
>
> This is what I feared Judy...although what could be more flattering to a woman than the Burgundian style gowns and beautiful hennins with their graceful veils of the period...sigh...Eileen

Carol responds:

Then, again, they plucked their forehead hair so that it wouldn't show under the hennin. Ouch.

Carol

Oddly enough "Louis XI - le pouvoir fracassé"
Paul

On 25 Nov 2012, at 11:53, liz williams wrote:

> What's it called?
>
> Liz
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 10:56
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
> I maintain that the best historical films are made not by us Brits, but by he French. To prove my point I just watched a French film about the last days of Louis XI, Richard's enemy. The accuracy of the settings and costumes was amazing, particularly the casting of the king and his eldest daughter, Anne, the lady who stood up in the French assembly in 1484 and accused Richard of killing his nephews. She at the time was Regent for her young brother, and had close cousins desperate to get hold of power, and in one case, the crown. She looked so much like the portraits it sent a shiver down my spine. Showing from time to time on French channel TV5Monde which now broadcasts through Sky with English subtitles if your French isn't up to it!
> Paul
>
> On 24 Nov 2012, at 09:31, Brian wrote:
>
>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>
>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>
>> Brian W
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>
>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>
>>> Marie
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>
>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Doubt it but don't know for sure.
Paul

On 25 Nov 2012, at 17:27, Richard Yahoo wrote:

> Can we get it in Netflix?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Nov 25, 2012, at 6:53 AM, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>> What's it called?
>>
>> Liz
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 10:56
>> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>
>>
>> I maintain that the best historical films are made not by us Brits, but by he French. To prove my point I just watched a French film about the last days of Louis XI, Richard's enemy. The accuracy of the settings and costumes was amazing, particularly the casting of the king and his eldest daughter, Anne, the lady who stood up in the French assembly in 1484 and accused Richard of killing his nephews. She at the time was Regent for her young brother, and had close cousins desperate to get hold of power, and in one case, the crown. She looked so much like the portraits it sent a shiver down my spine. Showing from time to time on French channel TV5Monde which now broadcasts through Sky with English subtitles if your French isn't up to it!
>> Paul
>>
>> On 24 Nov 2012, at 09:31, Brian wrote:
>>
>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>>
>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>>
>>> Brian W
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>>
>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>>
>>>> Marie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
Great actor.
Paul


On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:

> Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>>
>> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
>> Paul
>>
>> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>>>
>>> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>>>
>>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Yes, one of the great ironies of film making was his role in Advise and Consent...

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
Great actor.
Paul

On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:

> Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>>
>> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
>> Paul
>>
>> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>>>
>>> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>>>
>>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

There was a great bunch of actors at that time. What characters. Was it Charles or Robert Newton uttered the immortal lines...in Richard lll...on arriving on the stage drunk and getting heckled by a member of the audience "If you think Im drunk wait until you see the Duke of Clarence"....priceless. Of course the language used was more colourful than that...Ah... They dont make 'em like that any more....Eileen

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> Great actor.
> Paul
>
>
> On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:
>
> > Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>
> >> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >>>
> >>> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >>>>
> >>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brian W
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> >>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> >>>>>>> To:
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brian W.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

I don't know but I think it must have been Robert Newton since he was a renowned lush.  Terrible shame, he was a wonderful actor.  



________________________________
From: EileenB <b.eileen25@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 19:39
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen

 
There was a great bunch of actors at that time. What characters. Was it Charles or Robert Newton uttered the immortal lines...in Richard lll...on arriving on the stage drunk and getting heckled by a member of the audience "If you think Im drunk wait until you see the Duke of Clarence"....priceless. Of course the language used was more colourful than that...Ah... They dont make 'em like that any more....Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
> Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> Great actor.
> Paul
>
>
> On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:
>
> > Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>
> >> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >>>
> >>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >>>>
> >>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brian W
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> >>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> >>>>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brian W.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

I loved Robert Newton...I remember him as the evil Bill Sykes in Oliver Twist...He beat poor Nancy to death...What was the dog's name...? Eileen

--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know but I think it must have been Robert Newton since he was a renowned lush.  Terrible shame, he was a wonderful actor.  
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <b.eileen25@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 19:39
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>  
> There was a great bunch of actors at that time. What characters. Was it Charles or Robert Newton uttered the immortal lines...in Richard lll...on arriving on the stage drunk and getting heckled by a member of the audience "If you think Im drunk wait until you see the Duke of Clarence"....priceless. Of course the language used was more colourful than that...Ah... They dont make 'em like that any more....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> > Great actor.
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Brian W
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Marie
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > >>>>>> Paul
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > >>>>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Brian W.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Bullseye. 



________________________________
From: EileenB <b.eileen25@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 20:51
Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen

 
I loved Robert Newton...I remember him as the evil Bill Sykes in Oliver Twist...He beat poor Nancy to death...What was the dog's name...? Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know but I think it must have been Robert Newton since he was a renowned lush.  Terrible shame, he was a wonderful actor.  
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <b.eileen25@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 19:39
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>  
> There was a great bunch of actors at that time. What characters. Was it Charles or Robert Newton uttered the immortal lines...in Richard lll...on arriving on the stage drunk and getting heckled by a member of the audience "If you think Im drunk wait until you see the Duke of Clarence"....priceless. Of course the language used was more colourful than that...Ah... They dont make 'em like that any more....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >
> > Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> > Great actor.
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> > >> Paul
> > >>
> > >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Brian W
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Marie
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > >>>>>> Paul
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > >>>>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Brian W.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Charles Laughton as Henry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmaaXBv56n8



BBC version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ9YsF86hv4&feature=fvwrel


Some poor acting from the support cast.  Nice to see the future Mrs Meldrew correctly portrayed as a redhead.


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 19:21
Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen


 
Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
Great actor.
Paul

On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:

> Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>>
>> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
>> Paul
>>
>> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
>>>
>>> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
>>>>
>>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
>>>>
>>>> Brian W
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Correct! I watched that film with my dad....:0)
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> Bullseye. 
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB <b.eileen25@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 20:51
> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>  
> I loved Robert Newton...I remember him as the evil Bill Sykes in Oliver Twist...He beat poor Nancy to death...What was the dog's name...? Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know but I think it must have been Robert Newton since he was a renowned lush.  Terrible shame, he was a wonderful actor.  
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB <b.eileen25@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 19:39
> > Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >
> >  
> > There was a great bunch of actors at that time. What characters. Was it Charles or Robert Newton uttered the immortal lines...in Richard lll...on arriving on the stage drunk and getting heckled by a member of the audience "If you think Im drunk wait until you see the Duke of Clarence"....priceless. Of course the language used was more colourful than that...Ah... They dont make 'em like that any more....Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> > > Great actor.
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> > > >> Paul
> > > >>
> > > >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Brian W
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Marie
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> > > >>>>>> Paul
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> ________________________________
> > > >>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> > > >>>>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Brian W.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
> > > >>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ------------------------------------
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

David...thank you for posting the link to the film. Love the French executioner....! :0)
Eileen


--- In , david rayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Charles Laughton as Henry:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmaaXBv56n8
>
>
>
> BBC version:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ9YsF86hv4&feature=fvwrel
>
>
> Some poor acting from the support cast.  Nice to see the future Mrs Meldrew correctly portrayed as a redhead.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 26 November 2012, 19:21
> Subject: Re: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
>
>
>  
> Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> Great actor.
> Paul
>
> On 25 Nov 2012, at 22:14, EileenB wrote:
>
> > Hi Paul...I remember this series very well. It was altogether excellent. I thought Keith Mitchell an excellent Henry. Of course they were different times...and I think Henry came over as fairly affable...you know the Bluff King Hal kind of thing. My favourite King Hal has to be the Charles Laughton one....He was married to the actress that played Anne of Cleaves. Oh those were the days.....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>
> >> When I was a baby Eileen, I worked on the film version of Henry VIII and his 6 Wives with Keith Michell, who had done such a great job in the tv version [yes I had to bite my tongue a lot, but work was work]. It had a bigger budget than the tv series, but I remember the costume designer saying how for the tv he had used anything he could find that looked right, including bottle tops for jewellery, and now he had a bigger budget he could use plastic instead! Both sets, tv and film, were accurate in their detail, so it shows it doesn't cost a fortune to get it right.
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> On 24 Nov 2012, at 11:04, EileenB wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Brian...but why is it so hard for the costume designers to get the costumes correct. I cannot understand it..There is plenty of stuff around to guide them...paintings, church monuments etc., .It is not rocket science? Its a shame..Eileen
> >>>
> >>> --- In , "Brian" <wainwright.brian@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Couldn't agree more Marie. I recall one particular scene in the Tudors where a lady was on her way to Mass(!) with nothing on her head, and a chance meeting proved she had *nothing* underneath her dress. This proved the people had no idea of either costume or social rules. It's quite common though in films to see medieval ladies in bare feet, wearing just shoes. They'd not have been seen dead like that! (And even my grandmother would not have gone to church without a hat, and she was Low Church C of E.)
> >>>>
> >>>> As to the orb and sceptre thing, I am not 100% percent sure, now that my memory has gone to pot, but I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of medieval queens kitted out with them. They did share their husbands' 'regality' at least at the religious/mystical level - indeed that was the point of them being crowned. They were no longer just the King's wife (which they were by marriage alone) but an annointed Queen, which is (or was) a distinct office.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brian W
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You know what really used to irritate me about the costumes in The Tudors - the lack of sufficient linen undergarments. All that unwashable silk and velvet in direct contact with bodily secretions.... They'd have been very smelly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also seem to recall ladies knocking off their shoes and lifting their skirts to reveal bare legs. I suppose knee-length stockings held up with garters just weren't sexy enough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Maybe they re using the Tudors costumes with a little adaptation. But as they weren't authentic anyway....
> >>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 23 Nov 2012, at 10:27, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At least The Borgias did quite well in the men's hair department. This looks like another 'Tudors' Hilary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>> From: Brian <wainwright.brian@>
> >>>>>>> To:
> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 23 November 2012, 8:57
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC releases stills from PG's White Queen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Doesn't look very 15th century. And I doubt whether Elizabeth would have carried what looks like a 19th Century Field Marshal's baton at her Coronation. Orb and Sceptre were more traditional.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My hopes for the appearance (let alone the historical accuracy) of this series are low. The 'look' sugests to me the producers have no idea of the weight of medieval noble clothing. What Elizabeth is wearing looks like it might have come off the peg @ M&S. And the armour looks way too early.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Brian W.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "bandyoi" <bandyoi@> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.philippagregory.com/2012/11/the-bbc-release-images-from-the-production-of-the-white-queen/
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> What'd ya think?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>

Paul Trevor Bale wrote:

"Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein
herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
Great actor."

Was Gertrude Lawrence in that as well? Or am I thinking of when Laughton
starred in "Rembrandt"?
Doug

Gertie in the gay bars? :-)
Who knows,
Yes, she was in Rembrandt, possibly Laughton's best ever performance, and a box office disaster.
Paul

On 26 Nov 2012, at 18:22, Douglas Eugene Stamate wrote:

>
> Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> "Charlie was indeed married to Elas Lanchester, the Bride of Frankenstein
> herself. But Charlie often popped down the gay bars of LA!
> Great actor."
>
> Was Gertrude Lawrence in that as well? Or am I thinking of when Laughton
> starred in "Rembrandt"?
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Paul Trevor Bale wrote:

"Gertie in the gay bars? :-)
Who knows,"

Perhaps Sir Noel?

"Yes, she was in Rembrandt, possibly Laughton's best ever performance, and a
box office disaster."

Thanks, I thought perhaps she might have been one of Henry's other wives.
Doug