ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks

The media are distributing the Society's press release...let's hope they don't get "creative" with it.

BBC News coverage (2 hours old):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-20957190

Asking for the media not to be too creative is a bit like asking the Tudors for a unbiased history
G

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 9, 2013, at 12:17 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:

> The media are distributing the Society's press release...let's hope they don't get "creative" with it.
>
> BBC News coverage (2 hours old):
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-20957190
>
>

I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening

I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

Col

--- In , carole jenkins wrote:
>
> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>
>
>

May well be something in the Channel 4 contract about the programme having the "reveal".
Paul

On 9 Jan 2013, at 19:43, carole jenkins wrote:

> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

How can we mortals, this side of the pond watch the BBC unveiling?! I am feeling a left out.......

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:

> May well be something in the Channel 4 contract about the programme having the "reveal".
> Paul
>
> On 9 Jan 2013, at 19:43, carole jenkins wrote:
>
> > I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>

I have Direct TV with BBC America that has live`ish News so you can also get the iPad/Phone/etc application and see what happens. It will not be as good as live but pretty close!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/


George
On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...> wrote:

> How can we mortals, this side of the pond watch the BBC unveiling?! I am feeling a left out.......
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
>> May well be something in the Channel 4 contract about the programme having the "reveal".
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9 Jan 2013, at 19:43, carole jenkins wrote:
>>
>>> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

I will take "close"!!




________________________________
From: George Butterfield <gbutterf1@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks


 
I have Direct TV with BBC America that has live`ish News so you can also get the iPad/Phone/etc application and see what happens. It will not be as good as live but pretty close!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/

George
On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:55 PM, Richard Yahoo bandyoi@...> wrote:

> How can we mortals, this side of the pond watch the BBC unveiling?! I am feeling a left out.......
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
>> May well be something in the Channel 4 contract about the programme having the "reveal".
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9 Jan 2013, at 19:43, carole jenkins wrote:
>>
>>> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

I'd imagine the society has a wealthy patron funding the expensive stuff through the society.

I'd also imagine the society informs its wealthy patron of all results far ahead of the gentry or the unprivileged masses. Historically, the inner circle is always what it is.

I don't mind the delays as long as they tell us something, someday. At least those of you in the UK know the BBC will come through for you. Those of us across the Pond are at the mercy (non-existent) of BBC America that probably won't run the documentary at the same time the UK sees it. We will likely have to wait months due to international distribution agreements.

/end whinging -- for now/
~Weds

--- In , colyngbourne wrote:
>
> I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

A lurker here, briefly unlurking!

The BBC is not the channel responsible for showing the documentary here
in the UK; it will be broadcast on channel 4, as far as I am aware.

The BBC have a daily magazine type programme on in the evening called
The One Show, which last night aired a short piece about the dig, and
announced that the results would available during the first week of February.

I have always believed throughout this process that it is the
University if Leicester who are controlling the release of information.
They are the first the release information, in my experience, via their
Twitter feed.

Yes, the suspense is agony... but from the information released early
on, I am confident they have found Richard :)

Jen



I'd imagine the society has a wealthy patron funding the expensive
stuff through the society.

I'd also imagine the society informs its wealthy patron of all results
far ahead of the gentry or the unprivileged masses. Historically, the
inner circle is always what it is.

I don't mind the delays as long as they tell us something, someday. At
least those of you in the UK know the BBC will come through for you.
Those of us across the Pond are at the mercy (non-existent) of BBC
America that probably won't run the documentary at the same time the UK
sees it. We will likely have to wait months due to international
distribution agreements.

/end whinging -- for now/
~Weds

--- In , colyngbourne wrote:
>
> I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the
> little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether
> it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent
> on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in
> the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend
> this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they
> know publicly.

Hi Just a bit about the facial reconstruction. No we as members were not asked about spending the funds on this facial reconstruction. We would probably agreed but were not asked. In my opinion the committee members should have consulted.
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine


________________________________
From: Jen <jenny@...>
To: ; wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2013, 7:12
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks


 

A lurker here, briefly unlurking!

The BBC is not the channel responsible for showing the documentary here
in the UK; it will be broadcast on channel 4, as far as I am aware.

The BBC have a daily magazine type programme on in the evening called
The One Show, which last night aired a short piece about the dig, and
announced that the results would available during the first week of February.

I have always believed throughout this process that it is the
University if Leicester who are controlling the release of information.
They are the first the release information, in my experience, via their
Twitter feed.

Yes, the suspense is agony... but from the information released early
on, I am confident they have found Richard :)

Jen

I'd imagine the society has a wealthy patron funding the expensive
stuff through the society.

I'd also imagine the society informs its wealthy patron of all results
far ahead of the gentry or the unprivileged masses. Historically, the
inner circle is always what it is.

I don't mind the delays as long as they tell us something, someday. At
least those of you in the UK know the BBC will come through for you.
Those of us across the Pond are at the mercy (non-existent) of BBC
America that probably won't run the documentary at the same time the UK
sees it. We will likely have to wait months due to international
distribution agreements.

/end whinging -- for now/
~Weds

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne wrote:
>
> I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the
> little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether
> it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent
> on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in
> the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend
> this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they
> know publicly.

Not the BBC Ishita but Channel 4.
Paul

On 9 Jan 2013, at 20:55, Richard Yahoo wrote:

> How can we mortals, this side of the pond watch the BBC unveiling?! I am feeling a left out.......
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:41 PM, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:
>
>> May well be something in the Channel 4 contract about the programme having the "reveal".
>> Paul
>>
>> On 9 Jan 2013, at 19:43, carole jenkins wrote:
>>
>>> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Hi,
 I don't know where you get the idea that wealthy patrons fund things for the society. For instance the dig was about to be stopped and the members of Richard's Army ie members of society and others raised the £10,000 by individual payments.
For the committee to use funds In my opinion they should at least consult branch committee's.
Regards
Christine
 


________________________________
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013, 23:24
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks


 

I'd imagine the society has a wealthy patron funding the expensive stuff through the society.

I'd also imagine the society informs its wealthy patron of all results far ahead of the gentry or the unprivileged masses. Historically, the inner circle is always what it is.

I don't mind the delays as long as they tell us something, someday. At least those of you in the UK know the BBC will come through for you. Those of us across the Pond are at the mercy (non-existent) of BBC America that probably won't run the documentary at the same time the UK sees it. We will likely have to wait months due to international distribution agreements.

/end whinging -- for now/
~Weds

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne wrote:
>
> I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

Hi I totally agree, we or I as a member of the society are not happy to being kept in the dark about just what is going on, some of us are loosing trust in those who are making the decisions and not letting us know what is the truth about matters.
In my opinion for what it is worth they have known for some time it's Richard. ( Though I am sure it is)
One or two  are wondering if they will say it's Richard anyway to recoup and make money, as it seems that all some people are interested in.Sounds awful this but all the goings on with media etc is getting me down. Richard must be disgusted with some of the goings on.
 
God Bless Richard
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine
 


________________________________
From: colyngbourne <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013, 20:27
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks


 

I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

Col

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, carole jenkins wrote:
>
> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>
>
>

________________________________
C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:



 
Hi I totally agree, we or I as a member of the society are not happy to being kept in the dark about just what is going on, some of us are loosing trust in those who are making the decisions and not letting us know what is the truth about matters.
In my opinion for what it is worth they have known for some time it's Richard. ( Though I am sure it is)
One or two  are wondering if they will say it's Richard anyway to recoup and make money, as it seems that all some people are interested in.Sounds awful this but all the goings on with media etc is getting me down. Richard must be disgusted with some of the goings on.
 
God Bless Richard
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine

Me:
Richard has waited 500 years to be rediscovered, so what is a few weeks in that context?  Unfortunately, it seems this is a no-win situation for the Society.  What would have been the response if as soon as the remains had been found, it shouted the news  across all the media only to be accused of jumping the gun before the results were in and that there was no proof?  That would have done nothing for its credibility.
As there is a TV documentary being made at the same time, I guess there are contractual points about who will reveal what.  In that case, the Society, or anyone else for that matter can't 'go public' until the documentary has either aired or is about to be aired that day.
In addition, the scientific tests have taken a very long time.  I heard someone from Leicester University saying that the bone scans take an extremely long time per bone as the machine only moves a few fractions of a mm and it takes up to 8 hours per bone.  
I am sure no one wants things to be only half done.  We all complain about the almost cursory examination of the bones in Westminster Abbey.  Do we want the current scientific investigation into the Greyfriars Warrior to be as brief?

 


________________________________
From: colyngbourne [email protected]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013, 20:27
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks


 

I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

Col

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, carole jenkins wrote:
>
> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>
>
>

I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
This is my last word on this.
regards
Loyaulte me Lie.
Christine


________________________________
From: Pamela Furmidge <pamela.furmidge@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2013, 10:27
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks


 



________________________________
C HOLMES mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:

 
Hi I totally agree, we or I as a member of the society are not happy to being kept in the dark about just what is going on, some of us are loosing trust in those who are making the decisions and not letting us know what is the truth about matters.
In my opinion for what it is worth they have known for some time it's Richard. ( Though I am sure it is)
One or two  are wondering if they will say it's Richard anyway to recoup and make money, as it seems that all some people are interested in.Sounds awful this but all the goings on with media etc is getting me down. Richard must be disgusted with some of the goings on.
 
God Bless Richard
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine

Me:
Richard has waited 500 years to be rediscovered, so what is a few weeks in that context?  Unfortunately, it seems this is a no-win situation for the Society.  What would have been the response if as soon as the remains had been found, it shouted the news  across all the media only to be accused of jumping the gun before the results were in and that there was no proof?  That would have done nothing for its credibility.
As there is a TV documentary being made at the same time, I guess there are contractual points about who will reveal what.  In that case, the Society, or anyone else for that matter can't 'go public' until the documentary has either aired or is about to be aired that day.
In addition, the scientific tests have taken a very long time.  I heard someone from Leicester University saying that the bone scans take an extremely long time per bone as the machine only moves a few fractions of a mm and it takes up to 8 hours per bone.  
I am sure no one wants things to be only half done.  We all complain about the almost cursory examination of the bones in Westminster Abbey.  Do we want the current scientific investigation into the Greyfriars Warrior to be as brief?

 

________________________________
From: colyngbourne mailto:no_reply%40yahoogroups.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013, 20:27
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks

 

I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him? Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period? If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

Col

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, carole jenkins wrote:
>
> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why this is happening
>
>
>

Hi, Christine, Carol & All 



While I agree with you in being a bit frustrated at the continual delays in the Big Announcement, I don't think there is *any way* that they would fudge the results for the purpose of financial gain. Firstly, although one suspects this will benefit the Leicester area, I question that there would be any great inflow of cash as a result of the discovery. There wouldn't be much point in conniving in that direction, when there's no proof that the discovery will result in a positive cash flow. Secondly, and most importantly, the testing and identification is not in the hands of the Society but in the hands of the archaeological/forensic team led by Richard Buckley of the University of Leicester. He is a highly respected historical archaeologist. I feel sure that there would be no hanky panky on his part or by anyone else on the team, and I am sure that the results of the excavation will be subject to a report to a peer-reviewed journal in due course. At least I hope that it will. But in any case, it is certain that if things aren't handled in accordance with the standards of the profession, Dr. Buckley's reputation and the University's would suffer greatly.



I am pretty sure the Greyfriars Warrior is Richard. If it's not . . . well, then who is it? I believe that the team had the names of seven people who had likely been interred in the Greyfriars Priory before they commenced the excavation. That was how they were able to identify the remains of the disarticulated female skeleton as one of the founders of the Priory. So they probably have a pretty good idea of the identity and dates for any remains they might have found, and the five characteristics they identified back in September certainly make it more likely than not that the Greyfriars Warrior is Our King. Given the unusually specific characteristics, which fit what is known is known or what was reputed about Richard, it is very likely that it is Our Guy and if for some reason the DNA doesn't match up, there may be a valid reason relating to questionable mother-daughter relationships somewhere in the past, rather than that it is not the remains of the Last Plantagenet King.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne

(Always ready to helpfully contribute her two farthings.)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of C HOLMES
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 6:09 AM
To:
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks





Hi I totally agree, we or I as a member of the society are not happy to being kept in the dark about just what is going on, some of us are loosing trust in those who are making the decisions and not letting us know what is the truth about matters.
In my opinion for what it is worth they have known for some time it's Richard. ( Though I am sure it is)
One or two are wondering if they will say it's Richard anyway to recoup and make money, as it seems that all some people are interested in.Sounds awful this but all the goings on with media etc is getting me down. Richard must be disgusted with some of the goings on.

God Bless Richard
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine


___

I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.

For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.

If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?

It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.

~Weds


--- In , C HOLMES wrote:
>
> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> This is my last word on this.
> regards
> Loyaulte me Lie.
> Christine

Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more. 

 wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>  wrote:

 
I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.

For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.

If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?

It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.

~Weds

--- In , C HOLMES wrote:
>
> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> This is my last word on this.
> regards
> Loyaulte me Lie.
> Christine

While I'd be disappointed if it isn't Richard they've found, a facial
reconstruction of a 15th century 'random man' would still be of huge
interest. I'd hate to see him abandoned like so much detritus if he turns
out not to be Richard.

Karen

From: colyngbourne <[email protected]>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2013 20:27:46 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig:
Conclusions to be revealed in weeks






I agree, Carole. How come the Society has committed funds (out of the little
it has) to a facial reconstruction if they are not sure whether it is him?
Would Society members be content that their funds are spent on the facial
reconstruction of a random man buried in Greyfriars in the medieval period?
If the Society members who have elected to spend this money, do know that
it's Richard, they should announce that they know publicly.

Col

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , carole jenkins wrote:
>
> I've just watched Dan Snow on the One Show.Now he is saying that it will be
February before we know anything.It's so infuriating, first it was twelve weeks
then December, then early January now February.Surely they could at least tell
us why and stop treating us like children.It's becoming a media
presentation,like pandora's box.Can't someone who IS in the know exlpain why
this is happening
>
>
>

Me too.
I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
Paul

On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:

> Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
>
> wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
>
> For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
>
> If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
>
> It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In , C HOLMES wrote:
>>
>> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
>> This is my last word on this.
>> regards
>> Loyaulte me Lie.
>> Christine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Exactly!!!!! Hilary

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> Me too.
> I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
> The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
> Paul
>
> On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:
>
> > Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
> >
> > wednesday_mc wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
> >
> > For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
> >
> > If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
> >
> > It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In , C HOLMES wrote:
> >>
> >> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> >> This is my last word on this.
> >> regards
> >> Loyaulte me Lie.
> >> Christine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Hi, Paul -

Was that comment by Neil Trump on this Forum? Can you give me a reference to
it? I'd like to read the comment in context before giving an assessment.
But, given that I am not a medievalist myself but a generalist who is in
Richard's camp, I am inclined to support your statement. I really get a
thrill of reading the comments about "King Richard's Army" providing the
funds to complete last Summer's excavation, for example.



Thanks, Paul.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Paul Trevor
Bale
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:43 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig:
Conclusions to be revealed in weeks





Me too.
I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality
rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a
single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And
if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that
could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for
the truth!
Paul

On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:

> Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
>
> wednesday_mc wednesday.mac@... <mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> >
wrote:
>
>
> I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more
visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs,
books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I
consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also
inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer
curiosity, which can only be to the good.
>
> For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture
"star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having
his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to
the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about
and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
>
> If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs
open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that
means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest,
then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It
works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked
uncle?
>
> It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will
continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , C HOLMES wrote:
>>
>> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of
consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information
about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
>> This is my last word on this.
>> regards
>> Loyaulte me Lie.
>> Christine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Paul,
 
I am confused, I'm not aware of making any statement regarding quality and quantitiy
 
Neil

From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 10:42
Subject: Re: Re: ARTICLE: Richard III dig: Conclusions to be revealed in weeks

 
Me too.
I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
Paul

On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:

> Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
>
> wednesday_mc mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
>
> For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
>
> If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
>
> It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, C HOLMES wrote:
>>
>> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
>> This is my last word on this.
>> regards
>> Loyaulte me Lie.
>> Christine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

a battle need foot soldiers as much as generals! I will be very sad if I am summarily dismissed as being " quantity"! I might not be an expert but no less enthusiastic!

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:42 AM, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:

> Me too.
> I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
> The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
> Paul
>
> On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:
>
> > Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
> >
> > wednesday_mc wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
> >
> > For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
> >
> > If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
> >
> > It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In , C HOLMES wrote:
> >>
> >> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> >> This is my last word on this.
> >> regards
> >> Loyaulte me Lie.
> >> Christine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>

I agree with you, Richard! I may be a daft woman but the fight to right Richard's reputation is open to all people. Maire
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> a battle need foot soldiers as much as generals! I will be very sad if I am summarily dismissed as being " quantity"! I might not be an expert but no less enthusiastic!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:42 AM, Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> > Me too.
> > I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
> > The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
> > Paul
> >
> > On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:
> >
> > > Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
> > >
> > > wednesday_mc wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
> > >
> > > For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
> > >
> > > If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
> > >
> > > It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
> > >
> > > ~Weds
> > >
> > > --- In , C HOLMES wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> > >> This is my last word on this.
> > >> regards
> > >> Loyaulte me Lie.
> > >> Christine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

Marie, I am Ishita. For life of my I don't know how my id became Richard. Not that I mind particularly:)

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:15 AM, "mairemulholland" <mairemulholland@...> wrote:

> I agree with you, Richard! I may be a daft woman but the fight to right Richard's reputation is open to all people. Maire
> --- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
> >
> > a battle need foot soldiers as much as generals! I will be very sad if I am summarily dismissed as being " quantity"! I might not be an expert but no less enthusiastic!
> >
> > Ishita Bandyo
> > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:42 AM, Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
> >
> > > Me too.
> > > I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
> > > The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
> > > >
> > > > wednesday_mc wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
> > > >
> > > > For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
> > > >
> > > > If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
> > > >
> > > > It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
> > > >
> > > > ~Weds
> > > >
> > > > --- In , C HOLMES wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> > > >> This is my last word on this.
> > > >> regards
> > > >> Loyaulte me Lie.
> > > >> Christine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Oh, sorry, Ishita! Maire.
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Marie, I am Ishita. For life of my I don't know how my id became Richard. Not that I mind particularly:)
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 10:15 AM, "mairemulholland" wrote:
>
> > I agree with you, Richard! I may be a daft woman but the fight to right Richard's reputation is open to all people. Maire
> > --- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
> > >
> > > a battle need foot soldiers as much as generals! I will be very sad if I am summarily dismissed as being " quantity"! I might not be an expert but no less enthusiastic!
> > >
> > > Ishita Bandyo
> > > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:42 AM, Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
> > >
> > > > Me too.
> > > > I couldn't disagree more with Neil Trump's comment about wanting "quality rather than quantity" fighting the fight. Richard would not have turned a single man or woman away who offered to fight for him, so why should we? And if they only join the Society for a year, think of all the extra income that could be used in Richard's cause! Note I say Richard's cause!
> > > > The more the merrier joining up, talking the talk, fighting the fight for the truth!
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > On 11 Jan 2013, at 04:38, Pamela Furmidge wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wednesday, I couldn't agree with you more.
> > > > >
> > > > > wednesday_mc wednesday.mac@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm personally grateful for the marketing because it means he'll have more visibility in the future than he's had in the past. Those T-shirts and mugs, books, posters, videos, bookmarks, and anything else with his image -- I consider them tools to help ensure he's remembered. The exposure may also inspire more young people to begin digging for the truth out of sheer curiosity, which can only be to the good.
> > > > >
> > > > > For me, Dickon's ongoing fame -- even as the latest English pop-culture "star" or tourist destination -- is much better than the scenario of having his bones discovered and solemnly interred as a quiet, invisible footnote to the Tydder, so that the occasional Ricardian visitor can only tiptoe about and dare speak of him in whispers with the greatest respect.
> > > > >
> > > > > If Richard's reputation is to ever gain widespread restoration, he needs open and ongoing discussion much more than he needs quiet reverence; if that means making him into a tourist attraction by way of "hooking" new interest, then so be it. Such a thing can be a powerful aid in educating people. It works with the ravens in the Tower; why not with the archetypal wicked uncle?
> > > > >
> > > > > It also thrills me that Richard is getting all this attention and will continue doing so, while a Tudor isn't and won't.
> > > > >
> > > > > ~Weds
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In , C HOLMES wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I am not complaining about the time taken for results only the lack of consultation with members of the society and the media distorted information about Richard. Also the money making that is going on, T shirts mugs etc.
> > > > >> This is my last word on this.
> > > > >> regards
> > > > >> Loyaulte me Lie.
> > > > >> Christine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>