Annette's Maligned King

Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.

The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.

Does anyone know if she might consider returning?

~Weds

It's a wonderful book, isn't? I'm going to have to read it two or three times to fully digest it. I just finished reading Jeremy Potter's "Good King Richard?" and enjoyed that as well. Now, Potter brings out all of Richard's flaws and mistakes and misdeeds but does it in such a calm, reasonable way. Really enjoyed it. Maire.

--- In , "wednesday_mc" wrote:
>
> Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.
>
> The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.
>
> Does anyone know if she might consider returning?
>
> ~Weds
>

Weds,
I known Annette has been very involved in the Leicester dig and is extremely busy.  I hope that is why we have not heard from her lately and not some other reason.
Vickie

From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:20 AM
Subject: Annette's Maligned King

 
Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.

The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.

Does anyone know if she might consider returning?

~Weds

At present, Annette has no intention of returning.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:20 AM
Subject: Annette's Maligned King


 
Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.

The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.

Does anyone know if she might consider returning?

~Weds

Hi, Jonathan & Everyone 

I am almost positive that JAH talks about the horse that Richard rode into Leicester as being White Surrey or White Syrie, and apparently Syrie (or Syria) was known in those times for producing fine Arabian horses. But, there is no record if he rode out of Leicester on the same horse. If it was an Arabian, he certainly wouldn't have been a destrier. But I can't help wondering if, with the improvements and general lightening of armor that occurred during the 15th. c., Richard might have ridden something less humongous than a destrier into battle. And of course he probably had more than one horse.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Judy Thomson
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:30 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King





At present, Annette has no intention of returning.

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: wednesday_mc wednesday.mac@... <mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> >
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:20 AM
Subject: Annette's Maligned King



Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.

The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.

Does anyone know if she might consider returning?

~Weds

I was partway into Potter's "Good King Richard?" when Annette's book distracted me. Must return to it soon.

I bought R3: Enigma for the document facsimiles and am puttering through it. Not fond of the commentator, but the documents are making me want to drag out my old calligraphy nibs and play.

I'm still trying to work out how Richard penned his R's. He must have been hard on those poor little goose quills, he presses so hard.

~Weds


--- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
>
> It's a wonderful book, isn't? I'm going to have to read it two or three times to fully digest it. I just finished reading Jeremy Potter's "Good King Richard?" and enjoyed that as well. Now, Potter brings out all of Richard's flaws and mistakes and misdeeds but does it in such a calm, reasonable way. Really enjoyed it. Maire.

That's very much our loss.

~Weds

--- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
>
> Judy

Sorry to say, but she definitely will not return.
Paul

On 11 Jan 2013, at 16:20, wednesday_mc wrote:

> Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.
>
> The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.
>
> Does anyone know if she might consider returning?
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

It's not just the size of the horse. It's the battle training the horse received and the moves he was capable of making. He was a weapon much more than a mode of transportation.

The haute école movements of classical dressage originated from maneuvers needed on the battlefield. The movements go back to 360 BCE in the work of an Athenian cavalryman named Xenophon called "On the Art of Horsemanship," which is the oldest known text on horseback riding/training still in existence -- and still one of the best. He includes a chapter on training a war horse. Translations here:

http://www1.hollins.edu/faculty/saloweyca/horse/onhorsemanship.htm

Arabians have a very specific history in Britain, it's known exactly how they got there, who had them, and when. I'm not sure Richard would have had access to the breed (I think he's too early in the timeline because the original owners of the Arabians didn't share for a long time), but if he had seen one, I'm sure he'd have wanted one. But they're not suitable for taking into Bosworth -- to begin with, an Arabian is far too small, too light-boned to carry knight's armor, a knight, and barding. An Arabian can definitely do the war moves, but the weight of the armor would be an encumbrance, a definite liability.

I doubt very much there was any cross-breeding between the destrier and the Arabian in 15th-Century England.



--- In , Johanne Tournier wrote:

> I am almost positive that JAH talks about the horse that Richard rode into Leicester as being “White Surrey” or “White Syrie,” and apparently Syrie (or Syria) was known in those times for producing fine Arabian horses. But, there is no record if he rode out of Leicester on the same horse. If it was an Arabian, he certainly wouldn’t have been a destrier. But I can’t help wondering if, with the improvements and general lightening of armor that occurred during the 15th. c., Richard might have ridden something less humongous than a destrier into battle. And of course he probably had more than one horse.

What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Cc: "" <>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" wednesday.mac@...> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

Its a great shame and a great loss.........but understandable...Eileen

--- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 
>
> Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo
> To: ""
> Cc: ""
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
>
>  
> What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> Is Annette on Facebook?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
>
> > That's very much our loss.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > >
> > > Judy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves!  As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
Vickie

From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

Vickie..I could tell you were practically on the point of leaving and Im very glad you chose not to....Eileen
On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:41, Vickie Cook wrote:

> Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves! As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
> Vickie
>
> From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> To: "" >
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
>
> No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
>
> Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
>
> What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> Is Annette on Facebook?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's very much our loss.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > >
> > > Judy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Where is Marie? We have not heard from her for so long!
There were some acrimonious exchanges when i first joined in October but tings are nice and friendly now......Maybe if things go on like this she might want to come back? It's our loss.
And as Ricardians, I am sure all of you has been maligned at one point or another! I am waging a loosing battle at the RIII forum at facebook at this point. Now decided to give up and not comment anymore.....I don't like being angry :)




________________________________
From: eileen bates <eileenbates147@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

Vickie..I could tell you were practically on the point of leaving and Im very glad you chose not to....Eileen
On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:41, Vickie Cook wrote:

> Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves!  As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
> Vickie
>
> From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> To: "" >
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
> 
> No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
>
> Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
>
> Judy
> 
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
> 
> What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> Is Annette on Facebook?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's very much our loss.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > >
> > > Judy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Bloody shame.  She is brilliant (and scholarly!).  Can't we just boot off the person/people who annoyed her and get her back?
 
Liz


________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

 
 
I SO wish Annette would come back.  This forum needs her and frankly she shouldn't give them the satisfaction of drivng her away.
 
Liz


________________________________
From: Vickie Cook <lolettecook@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:41
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves!  As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
Vickie

From: Judy Thomson mailto:judygerard.thomson%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

The persons responsible were put on probation.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
Bloody shame.  She is brilliant (and scholarly!).  Can't we just boot off the person/people who annoyed her and get her back?
 
Liz

________________________________
From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" >
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

I can't blame her for leaving. No one needs that sort of grief in their life, no matter the source. I'd imagine she's opted for peace and never again wasting her hard-won knowledge on the ungrateful.

At the same time, I'm deeply sorry that a handful of ungratefuls can absolutely wreck things for those of us who would have loved the opportunity to have had a genuine, respectful dialogue with Annette.

The only thing I can do is read her book again and be glad no one can wreck that as well.

~Weds


--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> Its a great shame and a great loss.........but understandable...Eileen
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 
> >
> > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> >
> > Judy

Well said, Weds!

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:52 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:

> I can't blame her for leaving. No one needs that sort of grief in their life, no matter the source. I'd imagine she's opted for peace and never again wasting her hard-won knowledge on the ungrateful.
>
> At the same time, I'm deeply sorry that a handful of ungratefuls can absolutely wreck things for those of us who would have loved the opportunity to have had a genuine, respectful dialogue with Annette.
>
> The only thing I can do is read her book again and be glad no one can wreck that as well.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In , "EileenB" wrote:
> >
> > Its a great shame and a great loss.........but understandable...Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
> > >
> > > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> > >
> > > Judy
>
>

Children are often obsessed with horse stories.  It doesn't matter who

the owner/rider/situation might be -- they will read the book just for the

horse.  However, in reading for the horse's story, they learn whatever

surrounds the circumstances of the lead horse character.  In that way

Richard III, who loved his horses and hounds and hawks, would be

a much better introduction to the more accurate histories woven through

the story than Shakespeare or badly written history books.

However, I can't see a happy book focusing on Richard's war horse. 

Those were the specially trained and very expensive horses of narrow

focus and function, the Ferrari of War in their day, and if even half of

what I have read is true, they would have been nightmares to handle

and hard to paint in a loveable way.   Half the stallions I have interacted

with over the years -- those who were desperately encouraged NOT to

fight on a daily basis -- could be terrifying and do you serious harm in

the blink of an eye just because they are hormonal and dominant stallions.

I had one that even though gelded as a 2-year-old still liked to sneak up

behind you and either run over you deliberately or bite you in the back

or the head.  He was just evil, quite like his grandsire  who was notable for
savaging grooms on the racetrack and the stud farm.  I had heard somewhere

that Richard's war horse liked to bite faces in battle, and having seen a horse

actually try to rip someone's face off, it's not an event once described that

will give you warm fuzzies in the children's section. 

Might you be better served by creating an all purpose hack to carry the King
about in other situations than battle?


~Penny


Re: York House Books
Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Jonathan Evans" jmcevans98
John Ashdown Hill discusses this and - off the top of my
head - he suggests Surrey could be a corruption of Syria, or something
similar.  Was there a stable record somewhere or a listing of horses
purchased?  I really can't remember and I don't have access to the book
at the moment.  Of course, even if that's the case, it still wouldn't
indicate what horse - or even what colour of horse - Richard rode at
Bosworth.

Unlike George, though, I rather like the idea of a book focussing on one of Richard' s horses, fictional or otherwise:

> What exactly can a book about his horse do to help make children
> understand the injustice of past history?

Probably a better question to ask of Michael Morpurgo...

Jonathan

 
Live simply.  Love generously.  Care deeply.  Speak kindly.
        And never regret anything that made you smile.

Hi Judy it's a great shame when people are so unpleasant on this forum, I know who is meant and have blocked the messages.
It's a pity people answer them, it would be better perhaps to ignore them, so they get bored at lack of reaction and go away.
Annette was a great advocate for Richard which is the important part of this forum for me.
I am unashamedly Richardian.
Please come back Annette, for Richard
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine


________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 

No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

Hi Ishita,

I wondered about Marie too. I hope she hasn't departed as well. I've been on here about the same length of time as you and I think one of the problems is that true communication by email is always a bit difficult because you can't see the glint in people's eyes or hear the inflection in their voice. You can think you're making a joke and people can take it as sarcasm; you can contribute what you think's just a point and some people might think you're trying to show you've got 'superior knowledge'. I think we all (me included) misread things at times, or read something into them that isn't intended. It's difficult, really difficult. You feel you want to put 'this email is sent in the spirit of humility and goodwill' after your signature.

And I do think it's made harder because the subject matter causes so much emotion. I don't think they have these problems on the Landrover Owner forums (the blokes would say it's because it's a man thing, of course)! By the way, I think you're all a great bunch. If I didn't I wouldn't stay here. Cheers Hilary




--- In , Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Where is Marie? We have not heard from her for so long!
> There were some acrimonious exchanges when i first joined in October but tings are nice and friendly now......Maybe if things go on like this she might want to come back? It's our loss.
> And as Ricardians, I am sure all of you has been maligned at one point or another! I am waging a loosing battle at the RIII forum at facebook at this point. Now decided to give up and not comment anymore.....I don't like being angry :)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: eileen bates
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
> Vickie..I could tell you were practically on the point of leaving and Im very glad you chose not to....Eileen
> On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:41, Vickie Cook wrote:
>
> > Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves!  As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
> > Vickie
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> > To: "" >
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> >
> > 
> > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
> >
> > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> >
> > Judy
> > 
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> >
> > 
> > What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> > Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> > Is Annette on Facebook?
> >
> > Ishita Bandyo
> > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > That's very much our loss.
> > >
> > > ~Weds
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Marie planned to leave but was persuaded not to although she posts less frequently than before.

----- Original Message -----
From: hjnatdat
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King



Hi Ishita,

I wondered about Marie too. I hope she hasn't departed as well. I've been on here about the same length of time as you and I think one of the problems is that true communication by email is always a bit difficult because you can't see the glint in people's eyes or hear the inflection in their voice. You can think you're making a joke and people can take it as sarcasm; you can contribute what you think's just a point and some people might think you're trying to show you've got 'superior knowledge'. I think we all (me included) misread things at times, or read something into them that isn't intended. It's difficult, really difficult. You feel you want to put 'this email is sent in the spirit of humility and goodwill' after your signature.

And I do think it's made harder because the subject matter causes so much emotion. I don't think they have these problems on the Landrover Owner forums (the blokes would say it's because it's a man thing, of course)! By the way, I think you're all a great bunch. If I didn't I wouldn't stay here. Cheers Hilary

--- In , Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Where is Marie? We have not heard from her for so long!
> There were some acrimonious exchanges when i first joined in October but tings are nice and friendly now......Maybe if things go on like this she might want to come back? It's our loss.
> And as Ricardians, I am sure all of you has been maligned at one point or another! I am waging a loosing battle at the RIII forum at facebook at this point. Now decided to give up and not comment anymore.....I don't like being angry :)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: eileen bates
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
> Vickie..I could tell you were practically on the point of leaving and Im very glad you chose not to....Eileen
> On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:41, Vickie Cook wrote:
>
> > Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves! As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
> > Vickie
> >
> > From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> > To: ">
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> >
> >
> > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
> >
> > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> >
> >
> > What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> > Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> > Is Annette on Facebook?
> >
> > Ishita Bandyo
> > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > That's very much our loss.
> > >
> > > ~Weds
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Used to be but she closed it down for similar reasons, after much difficulty. Open an account easily, close it and there are barriers and tests galore! Go figure.
I don't blame her. I loathe Facebook and the numeorus frauds and trolls it seems to encourage.
Paul

On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:15, Richard Yahoo wrote:

> What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> Is Annette on Facebook?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
>
>> That's very much our loss.
>>
>> ~Weds
>>
>> --- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
>>>
>>> At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
>>>
>>> Judy
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Well, the great thing about being a writer is that you can bend the truth a bit. Yes, the war horse of Richard's time was a trained killer but I would get around that by making White Surrey loyal only to Richard. I don't think a children's book need be totally accurate to reality - as long as it's detailed, lively and believeably creates it's own world. Maire.

--- In , The Pennywhistle wrote:
>
> Children are often obsessed with horse stories.  It doesn't matter who
>
> the owner/rider/situation might be -- they will read the book just for the
>
> horse.  However, in reading for the horse's story, they learn whatever
>
> surrounds the circumstances of the lead horse character.  In that way
>
> Richard III, who loved his horses and hounds and hawks, would be
>
> a much better introduction to the more accurate histories woven through
>
> the story than Shakespeare or badly written history books.
>
> However, I can't see a happy book focusing on Richard's war horse. 
>
> Those were the specially trained and very expensive horses of narrow
>
> focus and function, the Ferrari of War in their day, and if even half of
>
> what I have read is true, they would have been nightmares to handle
>
> and hard to paint in a loveable way.   Half the stallions I have interacted
>
> with over the years -- those who were desperately encouraged NOT to
>
> fight on a daily basis -- could be terrifying and do you serious harm in
>
> the blink of an eye just because they are hormonal and dominant stallions.
>
> I had one that even though gelded as a 2-year-old still liked to sneak up
>
> behind you and either run over you deliberately or bite you in the back
>
> or the head.  He was just evil, quite like his grandsire  who was notable for
> savaging grooms on the racetrack and the stud farm.  I had heard somewhere
>
> that Richard's war horse liked to bite faces in battle, and having seen a horse
>
> actually try to rip someone's face off, it's not an event once described that
>
> will give you warm fuzzies in the children's section. 
>
> Might you be better served by creating an all purpose hack to carry the King
> about in other situations than battle?
>
>
> ~Penny
>
>
> Re: York House Books
> Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 am (PST) . Posted by:
> "Jonathan Evans" jmcevans98
> John Ashdown Hill discusses this and - off the top of my
> head - he suggests Surrey could be a corruption of Syria, or something
> similar.  Was there a stable record somewhere or a listing of horses
> purchased?  I really can't remember and I don't have access to the book
> at the moment.  Of course, even if that's the case, it still wouldn't
> indicate what horse - or even what colour of horse - Richard rode at
> Bosworth.
>
> Unlike George, though, I rather like the idea of a book focussing on one of Richard' s horses, fictional or otherwise:
>
> > What exactly can a book about his horse do to help make children
> > understand the injustice of past history?
>
> Probably a better question to ask of Michael Morpurgo...
>
> Jonathan
>
>  
> Live simply.  Love generously.  Care deeply.  Speak kindly.
>         And never regret anything that made you smile.
>
>
>

Hi, Stephen -



I hope Marie is just taking a break and not having health problems that are
affecting her ability to participate. She is certainly one of the people
with the greatest depth of knowledge here, as was Annette.



With Annette, in addition to the kerfuffles on the list which were no doubt
disagreeable to her, I can't help wondering if being here put her in an
awkward position, since she is/was involved with the excavation. Though I
certainly found her presence valuable - as you may remember, I posted a link
to an article with a picture of what I thought were *the* bones, and she was
able to state in no uncertain terms that they were *not* the bones of the
Greyfriars Warrior. I do wish she would reconsider and return - maybe at
some point in the future, if not immediately.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Stephen Lark
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:08 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King





Marie planned to leave but was persuaded not to although she posts less
frequently than before.
Recent Activity:

.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group//members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmb
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GwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzNTc5ODg5MDg-?o=6> New Members 3


<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaGZpZXY1B
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3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTM1Nzk4ODkwOA--> Visit Your Group


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Tell me about it! Emails can be scary. And I just saw my last post, that sounds disjointed and full of spelling mistakes! Dang iPhone!
All in all there can be much misunderstandings, maybe we should give each other benefit of doubt! We are after all, in this together:)

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 12, 2013, at 5:32 AM, "hjnatdat" <hjnatdat@...> wrote:

> Hi Ishita,
>
> I wondered about Marie too. I hope she hasn't departed as well. I've been on here about the same length of time as you and I think one of the problems is that true communication by email is always a bit difficult because you can't see the glint in people's eyes or hear the inflection in their voice. You can think you're making a joke and people can take it as sarcasm; you can contribute what you think's just a point and some people might think you're trying to show you've got 'superior knowledge'. I think we all (me included) misread things at times, or read something into them that isn't intended. It's difficult, really difficult. You feel you want to put 'this email is sent in the spirit of humility and goodwill' after your signature.
>
> And I do think it's made harder because the subject matter causes so much emotion. I don't think they have these problems on the Landrover Owner forums (the blokes would say it's because it's a man thing, of course)! By the way, I think you're all a great bunch. If I didn't I wouldn't stay here. Cheers Hilary
>
> --- In , Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Where is Marie? We have not heard from her for so long!
> > There were some acrimonious exchanges when i first joined in October but tings are nice and friendly now......Maybe if things go on like this she might want to come back? It's our loss.
> > And as Ricardians, I am sure all of you has been maligned at one point or another! I am waging a loosing battle at the RIII forum at facebook at this point. Now decided to give up and not comment anymore.....I don't like being angry :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: eileen bates
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> >
> > Vickie..I could tell you were practically on the point of leaving and Im very glad you chose not to....Eileen
> > On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:41, Vickie Cook wrote:
> >
> > > Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves! As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
> > > Vickie
> > >
> > > From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> > > To: ">
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> > >
> > >
> > > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
> > >
> > > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> > >
> > >
> > > What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> > > Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> > > Is Annette on Facebook?
> > >
> > > Ishita Bandyo
> > > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's very much our loss.
> > > >
> > > > ~Weds
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Good points, all, Hilary. I've been on both sides, and I am sure a lot of
the time my emails can be off-putting. But "earnest" should be my middle
name! <smile>



One thing that might be of relatively enormous importance and I've mentioned
before. That is, that this Forum is not formatted to allow one to use
"smiley faces" (emoticons, to use their proper name). Because of course,
this problem has been in existence since the birth of email, and smileys
were developed to allow one to indicate where something was meant to be
taken lightly, or tongue in cheek, or whatever. We lose in part by not being
able to edit our comments in that fashion. Pity!



Hey, Neil, oh august Moderator! Are you listening??



You can't really do anything about the fact that we may care *too much*
about Richard. That is simply a given and is something that has to be
factored into the mix. It's a handicap that's worth having, imho! <smile>



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of hjnatdat
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 6:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King





Hi Ishita,

I wondered about Marie too. I hope she hasn't departed as well. I've been on
here about the same length of time as you and I think one of the problems is
that true communication by email is always a bit difficult because you can't
see the glint in people's eyes or hear the inflection in their voice. You
can think you're making a joke and people can take it as sarcasm; you can
contribute what you think's just a point and some people might think you're
trying to show you've got 'superior knowledge'. I think we all (me included)
misread things at times, or read something into them that isn't intended.
It's difficult, really difficult. You feel you want to put 'this email is
sent in the spirit of humility and goodwill' after your signature.

And I do think it's made harder because the subject matter causes so much
emotion. I don't think they have these problems on the Landrover Owner
forums (the blokes would say it's because it's a man thing, of course)! By
the way, I think you're all a great bunch. If I didn't I wouldn't stay here.
Cheers Hilary

Stephen Lark wrote:

"Marie planned to leave but was persuaded not to although she posts less
frequently than before."

I'm very happy to hear that Marie is only "resting", Stephen. I've always
enjoyed her posts and found them to be both packed with information as well
as excellent reminders of how important it is to clearly differentiate
between what is actually known and verifiable and what is speculation by the
poster.
It's not as if I never get carried away with my own brilliance, or
anything...
Doug

I agree with you but unfortunately it means the "ungratefuls" have won because Annette has gone  and the rest of us have lost out because we don't have her knowledge on here.  (Not that I blame Annette one iota. )
 
I also think that if anyone starts becoming disruptive in the future we should all just ignore their posts completely and not waste our breath responding.
 

________________________________



On Jan 11, 2013, at 6:52 PM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't blame her for leaving. No one needs that sort of grief in their life, no matter the source. I'd imagine she's opted for peace and never again wasting her hard-won knowledge on the ungrateful.
>
> At the same time, I'm deeply sorry that a handful of ungratefuls can absolutely wreck things for those of us who would have loved the opportunity to have had a genuine, respectful dialogue with Annette.
>
> The only thing I can do is read her book again and be glad no one can wreck that as well.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "EileenB" wrote:
> >
> > Its a great shame and a great loss.........but understandable...Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
> > >
> > > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> > >
> > > Judy
>
>

How odd Penny, I grew up with and spent 40 years with breeding horses and have never encountered a 'nightmare' stallion.  Mares were always the difficult ones.



________________________________
From: The Pennywhistle <thepennywhistle@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

 
Children are often obsessed with horse stories.  It doesn't matter who

the owner/rider/situation might be -- they will read the book just for the

horse.  However, in reading for the horse's story, they learn whatever

surrounds the circumstances of the lead horse character.  In that way

Richard III, who loved his horses and hounds and hawks, would be

a much better introduction to the more accurate histories woven through

the story than Shakespeare or badly written history books.

However, I can't see a happy book focusing on Richard's war horse. 

Those were the specially trained and very expensive horses of narrow

focus and function, the Ferrari of War in their day, and if even half of

what I have read is true, they would have been nightmares to handle

and hard to paint in a loveable way.   Half the stallions I have interacted

with over the years -- those who were desperately encouraged NOT to

fight on a daily basis -- could be terrifying and do you serious harm in

the blink of an eye just because they are hormonal and dominant stallions.

I had one that even though gelded as a 2-year-old still liked to sneak up

behind you and either run over you deliberately or bite you in the back

or the head.  He was just evil, quite like his grandsire  who was notable for
savaging grooms on the racetrack and the stud farm.  I had heard somewhere

that Richard's war horse liked to bite faces in battle, and having seen a horse

actually try to rip someone's face off, it's not an event once described that

will give you warm fuzzies in the children's section. 

Might you be better served by creating an all purpose hack to carry the King
about in other situations than battle?

~Penny

Re: York House Books
Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Jonathan Evans" jmcevans98
John Ashdown Hill discusses this and - off the top of my
head - he suggests Surrey could be a corruption of Syria, or something
similar.  Was there a stable record somewhere or a listing of horses
purchased?  I really can't remember and I don't have access to the book
at the moment.  Of course, even if that's the case, it still wouldn't
indicate what horse - or even what colour of horse - Richard rode at
Bosworth.

Unlike George, though, I rather like the idea of a book focussing on one of Richard' s horses, fictional or otherwise:

> What exactly can a book about his horse do to help make children
> understand the injustice of past history?

Probably a better question to ask of Michael Morpurgo...

Jonathan

 
Live simply.  Love generously.  Care deeply.  Speak kindly.
        And never regret anything that made you smile.

Its a great shame some people have such thick skins they cannot see that their attitudes make popular people leave the forum and yet they still stay around.....Eileen
On 12 Jan 2013, at 09:42, C HOLMES wrote:

> Hi Judy it's a great shame when people are so unpleasant on this forum, I know who is meant and have blocked the messages.
> It's a pity people answer them, it would be better perhaps to ignore them, so they get bored at lack of reaction and go away.
> Annette was a great advocate for Richard which is the important part of this forum for me.
> I am unashamedly Richardian.
> Please come back Annette, for Richard
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> To: "" >
> Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
>
>
>
> No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
>
> Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
>
> What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> Is Annette on Facebook?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's very much our loss.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > >
> > > Judy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hopefully Marie was busy at Christmas and hopefully will be back soon?....Its such a shame about Annette...I would have liked to discuss EW 's involvement in the execution of Desmond and his very young sons with her. I see from Maligned King that Annette wrote a joint article with Dr John Ashdown-Hill regarding this matter for the Bulletin once but Im afraid I do not have that specific Bulletin amongst the ones I have. Eileen


On 12 Jan 2013, at 11:07, Stephen Lark wrote:

> Marie planned to leave but was persuaded not to although she posts less frequently than before.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hjnatdat
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
> Hi Ishita,
>
> I wondered about Marie too. I hope she hasn't departed as well. I've been on here about the same length of time as you and I think one of the problems is that true communication by email is always a bit difficult because you can't see the glint in people's eyes or hear the inflection in their voice. You can think you're making a joke and people can take it as sarcasm; you can contribute what you think's just a point and some people might think you're trying to show you've got 'superior knowledge'. I think we all (me included) misread things at times, or read something into them that isn't intended. It's difficult, really difficult. You feel you want to put 'this email is sent in the spirit of humility and goodwill' after your signature.
>
> And I do think it's made harder because the subject matter causes so much emotion. I don't think they have these problems on the Landrover Owner forums (the blokes would say it's because it's a man thing, of course)! By the way, I think you're all a great bunch. If I didn't I wouldn't stay here. Cheers Hilary
>
> --- In , Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Where is Marie? We have not heard from her for so long!
> > There were some acrimonious exchanges when i first joined in October but tings are nice and friendly now......Maybe if things go on like this she might want to come back? It's our loss.
> > And as Ricardians, I am sure all of you has been maligned at one point or another! I am waging a loosing battle at the RIII forum at facebook at this point. Now decided to give up and not comment anymore.....I don't like being angry :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: eileen bates
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 2:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> >
> > Vickie..I could tell you were practically on the point of leaving and Im very glad you chose not to....Eileen
> > On 11 Jan 2013, at 19:41, Vickie Cook wrote:
> >
> > > Those "certain persons" should be ashamed of themselves! As one who was chastised, I almost left (but I lurk more than comment). But to do that to someone who has so much knowledge, like Annette and Marie, is inexcusable!
> > > Vickie
> > >
> > > From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> > > To: ">
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:26 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> > >
> > >
> > > No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
> > >
> > > Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
> > >
> > >
> > > What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> > > Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> > > Is Annette on Facebook?
> > >
> > > Ishita Bandyo
> > > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> > >
> > > On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > That's very much our loss.
> > > >
> > > > ~Weds
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

Wednesday wrote:
>
> I can't blame her for leaving. No one needs that sort of grief in their life, no matter the source. I'd imagine she's opted for peace and never again wasting her hard-won knowledge on the ungrateful.
>
> At the same time, I'm deeply sorry that a handful of ungratefuls can absolutely wreck things for those of us who would have loved the opportunity to have had a genuine, respectful dialogue with Annette.
>
> The only thing I can do is read her book again and be glad no one can wreck that as well.

Carol responds:

If you're on the website rather than posting from your e-mail, you can use the forum's Search function to look up her old posts. It's a bit of a hassle but worth the trouble if you have some time on your hands.

I do hope that someone who actually knows Annette can convince her that we need people with her expertise on this forum and that the atmosphere here is once again peaceful and mutually respectful (with a touch of humor thanks to you and a few others).

Carol

Johanne Tournier wrote:
<snip>
> One thing that might be of relatively enormous importance and I've mentioned before. That is, that this Forum is not formatted to allow one to use "smiley faces" (emoticons, to use their proper name). Because of course, this problem has been in existence since the birth of email, and smileys were developed to allow one to indicate where something was meant to be taken lightly, or tongue in cheek, or whatever. We lose in part by not being able to edit our comments in that fashion. Pity!

Carol responds:

Well, there's always :-) or <smile> or ;-) or <wink> or even <evil grin>. Of course, some people dislike emoticons, and even emoticons can be misunderstood. I once used :-( several times on another forum to indicate that I was sad about something only to have another forum member wonder what I was angry about. (Huh?)

Oh, well. I guess we should all cut each other a little slack.

Meanwhile, I hope that this year will produce a plethora of *good* Richard III books (by which I mean well-written and objective or pro-Richard--we don't need any more Tudor-based "history," but we also don't need any poorly written, poorly researched pro-Richard books that make Ricardians look like ignorant fanatics. I can name one new book that fits that category, but perhaps I shouldn't for fear of offending anyone!)

Carol

Carol...maybe you should name the book...it may save someone wasting their money on it. I presume it is non-fiction...If it is fiction you maybe talking about one of the Gregory books that are churned out with alarming regularity...?
Eileen
On 12 Jan 2013, at 19:06, justcarol67 wrote:

> Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> > One thing that might be of relatively enormous importance and I've mentioned before. That is, that this Forum is not formatted to allow one to use "smiley faces" (emoticons, to use their proper name). Because of course, this problem has been in existence since the birth of email, and smileys were developed to allow one to indicate where something was meant to be taken lightly, or tongue in cheek, or whatever. We lose in part by not being able to edit our comments in that fashion. Pity!
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Well, there's always :-) or or ;-) or or even . Of course, some people dislike emoticons, and even emoticons can be misunderstood. I once used :-( several times on another forum to indicate that I was sad about something only to have another forum member wonder what I was angry about. (Huh?)
>
> Oh, well. I guess we should all cut each other a little slack.
>
> Meanwhile, I hope that this year will produce a plethora of *good* Richard III books (by which I mean well-written and objective or pro-Richard--we don't need any more Tudor-based "history," but we also don't need any poorly written, poorly researched pro-Richard books that make Ricardians look like ignorant fanatics. I can name one new book that fits that category, but perhaps I shouldn't for fear of offending anyone!)
>
> Carol
>
>

It's like the advise I always gave my children, when they were little.  If someone is giving you a hard time, ignore them and they'll stop-they just want to get a reaction out of you. 
Vickie

From: eileen bates <eileenbates147@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

Its a great shame some people have such  thick skins they cannot see that their attitudes make popular people leave the forum and yet they still stay around.....Eileen
On 12 Jan 2013, at 09:42, C HOLMES wrote:

> Hi Judy it's a great shame when people are so unpleasant on this forum, I know who is meant and have blocked the messages.
> It's a pity people answer them, it would be better perhaps to ignore them, so they get bored at lack of reaction and go away.
> Annette was a great advocate for Richard which is the important part of this forum for me.
> I am unashamedly Richardian.
> Please come back Annette, for Richard
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...>
> To: "" >
> Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
>
> 
>
> No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well.
>
> Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.
>
> Judy
> 
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King
>
> 
> What if we beg her on bended knees?!
> Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
> Is Annette on Facebook?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's very much our loss.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> > >
> > > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> > >
> > > Judy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Carol earlier:
>
> Well, there's always :-) or or ;-) or or even . Of course, some people dislike emoticons, and even emoticons can be misunderstood. I once used :-( several times on another forum to indicate that I was sad about something only to have another forum member wonder what I was angry about. (Huh?) <snip>

Carol again:

How funny! I originally had the words "wink" and "smile" in pointy brackets after two of these emoticons (see the blank spaces between the "or"s?) but Yahoo edited them out!

I've always thought that Yahoo was run by Yahoos. Now I know it is.

Carol

--- In , eileen bates wrote:
>
> Carol...maybe you should name the book...it may save someone wasting their money on it. I presume it is non-fiction...If it is fiction you maybe talking about one of the Gregory books that are churned out with alarming regularity...?

Carol responds:

Well, okay, since I'm pretty sure that the author, Joe Ann Ricca of the Richard III Foundation, isn't a member of this forum. Her new book, which I've sampled on Kindle, is called "Shakespeare's Victim: Richard III." Here's a sample sentence: "In these writings, some are contemporary to Richard III that will offer further insight into the life and character of this English king who has been vilified." I'm sure that she means, "Included in this list are contemporary sources that provide insight into the true character of this often vilified English king." Many other sentences are equally tangled and awkward, and at least one contains a clumsy dangling modifier. Anyone with an ear for style will wonder why she published the book without troubling to have it copyedited first.

The worst of it, for me, is that the topic is important (though not original), and a *good* book on the historical inaccuracies in Shakespeare's play would be very timely.

If stylistic infelicities and lack of original research don't bother you, you might want to spend $4.99 (don't know the British equivalent) for the Kindle version, but I would definitely read the sample first to make sure that I really wanted to spend that money. But I'm afraid that such a poor production will do more harm than good to the cause of Ricardians vs. Shakespeare.

Carol, who would happily have copyedited the manuscript if she'd had the opportunity

I would so love her to. Her knowledge and sound practice in discussion of what may have happened, make her book the best one ever of Richard. Regards. Coral
Sent from my BlackBerryý smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...>
Sender:
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:20:17
To: <>
Reply-To:
Subject: Annette's Maligned King

Only now that I've finished reading Annette Carson's *R3: Maligned King* do I understand who she is, how knowledgeable she is, and am mourning the loss of her to this list. She left only a few weeks after I joined; I had no idea.

The strength of her research, writing, and the detail in it makes me want to turn around and start the book again. I'm so sorry we can't discuss things with her any longer.

Does anyone know if she might consider returning?

~Weds

Ditto. Coral
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...>
Sender:
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:42:18
To: <>
Reply-To:
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King

Hi Judy it's a great shame when people are so unpleasant on this forum, I know who is meant and have blocked the messages.
It's a pity people answer them, it would be better perhaps to ignore them, so they get bored at lack of reaction and go away.
Annette was a great advocate for Richard which is the important part of this forum for me.
I am unashamedly Richardian.
Please come back Annette, for Richard
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine


________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2013, 19:26
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 

No amount of pleading will bring Annette back. Certain persons, unnamed, had turned this Forum into an unpleasant place, where every opinion was nitpicked to death, and people were rabidly chastised for their "unscholarly" thoughts, and thereupon Annette had had enough. We almost lost Marie, as well. 

Although things have quieted, I don't think Ms. Carson has any desire to return, ever.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King


 
What if we beg her on bended knees?!
Is there a larger print of the book? Mine are so small I have to give up after every paragraph!!
Is Annette on Facebook?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 11, 2013, at 11:54 AM, "wednesday_mc" mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> wrote:

> That's very much our loss.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson wrote:
> >
> > At present, Annette has no intention of returning.
> >
> > Judy
>
>

Ditto again. I do miss her knowledge and admire her book so much. Coral
Sent from my BlackBerryý smartphone

-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
Sender:
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 08:05:21
To: <>
Reply-To:
Subject: RE: Annette's Maligned King

Hi, Stephen -



I hope Marie is just taking a break and not having health problems that are
affecting her ability to participate. She is certainly one of the people
with the greatest depth of knowledge here, as was Annette.



With Annette, in addition to the kerfuffles on the list which were no doubt
disagreeable to her, I can't help wondering if being here put her in an
awkward position, since she is/was involved with the excavation. Though I
certainly found her presence valuable - as you may remember, I posted a link
to an article with a picture of what I thought were *the* bones, and she was
able to state in no uncertain terms that they were *not* the bones of the
Greyfriars Warrior. I do wish she would reconsider and return - maybe at
some point in the future, if not immediately.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Stephen Lark
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:08 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Annette's Maligned King





Marie planned to leave but was persuaded not to although she posts less
frequently than before.
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Is it self published?  I would have thought an editor would sort that kind of thing out.

 
 
And yes, totally agree it's an important subject that needs to be looked at.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Carol said:

Here's a sample sentence: "In these writings, some are contemporary to Richard III that will offer further insight into the life and character of this English king who has been vilified." I'm sure that she means, "Included in this list are contemporary sources that provide insight into the true character of this often vilified English king." Many other sentences are equally tangled and awkward, and at least one contains a clumsy dangling modifier. Anyone with an ear for style will wonder why she published the book without troubling to have it copyedited first.

The worst of it, for me, is that the topic is important (though not original), and a *good* book on the historical inaccuracies in Shakespeare's play would be very timely.