Richard's horses

Here we go:-

First Liard
Liard Clervaux of Croft
The White Whiche
Baiard Babingstone
Liard Strangwisshe
Baiard Riher
Kiard Cyltone
The little Whit of Knaresborough
The Holy Whiche Maister
The Gray Gelding of Savelles
Liards Carlile
Liard Norfolk
Lyard Danby
Trotting Mountgomery
Baiard Culton
Morel of Critalle
Blak Morelle
The Whit of Gervaux
The Walssh

None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.

So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
Paul


Richard Liveth Yet!

Which Whit? No, Whit Which.

Sounds like "Who's on first."

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To: RichardIIISociety forum <>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:42 AM
Subject: Richard's horses


 
Here we go:-

First Liard
Liard Clervaux of Croft
The White Whiche
Baiard Babingstone
Liard Strangwisshe
Baiard Riher
Kiard Cyltone
The little Whit of Knaresborough
The Holy Whiche Maister
The Gray Gelding of Savelles
Liards Carlile
Liard Norfolk
Lyard Danby
Trotting Mountgomery
Baiard Culton
Morel of Critalle
Blak Morelle
The Whit of Gervaux
The Walssh

None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.

So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
Paul

Richard Liveth Yet!

Thank you so much for the list of Richard's horses, Paul. That was very kind of you. Can you tell me what book you found the names? Maire.

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> Here we go:-
>
> First Liard
> Liard Clervaux of Croft
> The White Whiche
> Baiard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Baiard Riher
> Kiard Cyltone
> The little Whit of Knaresborough
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The Gray Gelding of Savelles
> Liards Carlile
> Liard Norfolk
> Lyard Danby
> Trotting Mountgomery
> Baiard Culton
> Morel of Critalle
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux
> The Walssh
>
> None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.
>
> So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
> I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
> Paul
>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, 12 January 2013, 15:50
Subject: Re: Richard's horses


 
Which Whit? No, Whit Which.

Sounds like "Who's on first."

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...>
To: RichardIIISociety forum >
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:42 AM
Subject: Richard's horses


 
Here we go:-

First Liard
Liard Clervaux of Croft
The White Whiche
Baiard Babingstone
Liard Strangwisshe
Baiard Riher
Kiard Cyltone
The little Whit of Knaresborough
The Holy Whiche Maister
The Gray Gelding of Savelles
Liards Carlile
Liard Norfolk
Lyard Danby
Trotting Mountgomery
Baiard Culton
Morel of Critalle
Blak Morelle
The Whit of Gervaux
The Walssh

None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.

So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
Paul

Richard Liveth Yet!

Paul, this horse-mad child is forever in your debt. Richard seems to have really liked white horses.

These two are definitely related -- daughter and sire?

> The White Whiche
> The Holy Whiche Maister

Ooooh, lookie! A black!
> Blak Morelle

> The Walssh
Does "The Walssh" translate to "The Welsh"?

> None very romantic!

Oh, yes they are. They tell the story of what he had in his stable at some point. I only wish we had his breeding records -- that would tell the tale. If someone in his courtyard/stable bred horses, that is. Not likely, unless Anne wanted to play at it. (There, you see...there's romance, you just have to spin out your imagination, never mind it's not historically correct.)

Where in the world is the source for these creatures? Someone actually preserved this?

Wow. Just wow.

Hugs! Wednesday

Thanks Paul...I like Trotting Mountgomery...maybe it shortened to Monty! Eileen
On 12 Jan 2013, at 15:42, Paul Trevor Bale wrote:

> Here we go:-
>
> First Liard
> Liard Clervaux of Croft
> The White Whiche
> Baiard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Baiard Riher
> Kiard Cyltone
> The little Whit of Knaresborough
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The Gray Gelding of Savelles
> Liards Carlile
> Liard Norfolk
> Lyard Danby
> Trotting Mountgomery
> Baiard Culton
> Morel of Critalle
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux
> The Walssh
>
> None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.
>
> So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
> I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
> Paul
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>

Hi Paul, could you tell me where you found these please as I knew I had read of Richard's horses but could not remember where I had read them.
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To: RichardIIISociety forum <>
Sent: Saturday, 12 January 2013, 15:42
Subject: Richard's horses


 

Here we go:-

First Liard
Liard Clervaux of Croft
The White Whiche
Baiard Babingstone
Liard Strangwisshe
Baiard Riher
Kiard Cyltone
The little Whit of Knaresborough
The Holy Whiche Maister
The Gray Gelding of Savelles
Liards Carlile
Liard Norfolk
Lyard Danby
Trotting Mountgomery
Baiard Culton
Morel of Critalle
Blak Morelle
The Whit of Gervaux
The Walssh

None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.

So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
Paul

Richard Liveth Yet!

I think that I shall start a trend and name my car "Black Albion" sounds so much finer than X5!
George

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

> Which Whit? No, Whit Which.
>
> Sounds like "Who's on first."
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...>
> To: RichardIIISociety forum >
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:42 AM
> Subject: Richard's horses
>
>
>
> Here we go:-
>
> First Liard
> Liard Clervaux of Croft
> The White Whiche
> Baiard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Baiard Riher
> Kiard Cyltone
> The little Whit of Knaresborough
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The Gray Gelding of Savelles
> Liards Carlile
> Liard Norfolk
> Lyard Danby
> Trotting Mountgomery
> Baiard Culton
> Morel of Critalle
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux
> The Walssh
>
> None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.
>
> So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
> I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
> Paul
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>

The good guys always ride on white horses.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 12:57 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:

> Paul, this horse-mad child is forever in your debt. Richard seems to have really liked white horses.
>
> These two are definitely related -- daughter and sire?
>
> > The White Whiche
> > The Holy Whiche Maister
>
> Ooooh, lookie! A black!
> > Blak Morelle
>
> > The Walssh
> Does "The Walssh" translate to "The Welsh"?
>
> > None very romantic!
>
> Oh, yes they are. They tell the story of what he had in his stable at some point. I only wish we had his breeding records -- that would tell the tale. If someone in his courtyard/stable bred horses, that is. Not likely, unless Anne wanted to play at it. (There, you see...there's romance, you just have to spin out your imagination, never mind it's not historically correct.)
>
> Where in the world is the source for these creatures? Someone actually preserved this?
>
> Wow. Just wow.
>
> Hugs! Wednesday
>
>

I'm so glad that in your 40 years with breeding horses you never encountered a a bad one.  I have also spent over 40 years with horses, and I've met some real pips.  Perhaps it is the breed of horse we're dealing with, early handling, how often they're used for breeding, etc., but I've met some scary ones.  I hope that all your stallions continue to be sweet ones. 



Re: Annette's Maligned King
Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:00 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Merri Ann Mc Lain" merriannmclain
How odd Penny, I grew up with and spent 40 years with
breeding horses and have never encountered a 'nightmare&# 39;
stallion.  Mares were always the difficult ones.

 
Live simply.  Love generously.  Care deeply.  Speak kindly.
        And never regret anything that made you smile.

Don't recall off hand Maire, but it took me a long time to pull the list together.
Paul

On 12 Jan 2013, at 16:06, mairemulholland wrote:

> Thank you so much for the list of Richard's horses, Paul. That was very kind of you. Can you tell me what book you found the names? Maire.
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>>
>> Here we go:-
>>
>> First Liard
>> Liard Clervaux of Croft
>> The White Whiche
>> Baiard Babingstone
>> Liard Strangwisshe
>> Baiard Riher
>> Kiard Cyltone
>> The little Whit of Knaresborough
>> The Holy Whiche Maister
>> The Gray Gelding of Savelles
>> Liards Carlile
>> Liard Norfolk
>> Lyard Danby
>> Trotting Mountgomery
>> Baiard Culton
>> Morel of Critalle
>> Blak Morelle
>> The Whit of Gervaux
>> The Walssh
>>
>> None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.
>>
>> So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
>> I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

I thank you again! Maire.

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> Don't recall off hand Maire, but it took me a long time to pull the list together.
> Paul
>
> On 12 Jan 2013, at 16:06, mairemulholland wrote:
>
> > Thank you so much for the list of Richard's horses, Paul. That was very kind of you. Can you tell me what book you found the names? Maire.
> >
> > --- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
> >>
> >> Here we go:-
> >>
> >> First Liard
> >> Liard Clervaux of Croft
> >> The White Whiche
> >> Baiard Babingstone
> >> Liard Strangwisshe
> >> Baiard Riher
> >> Kiard Cyltone
> >> The little Whit of Knaresborough
> >> The Holy Whiche Maister
> >> The Gray Gelding of Savelles
> >> Liards Carlile
> >> Liard Norfolk
> >> Lyard Danby
> >> Trotting Mountgomery
> >> Baiard Culton
> >> Morel of Critalle
> >> Blak Morelle
> >> The Whit of Gervaux
> >> The Walssh
> >>
> >> None very romantic! Morel was a dark brown, lyard a streaked or spotted gray; liard a gray or spotted gray; baiard, bay or reddish brown, from old french also meaning 'foolhardy'.
> >>
> >> So had there been a white Surrey it would have been called Liard Surrey. Perhaps Liard Norfolk was a gift from Howard?
> >> I like Trotting Monty and the White Whiche myself!
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> Richard Liveth Yet!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Black Albion? Like it, George. 

Not so horsy, but actually, we always name our cars. Last one was Alice ("To the moon!") Red Accord; she almost made it - 234,000 miles. And now we have Frodo (aka "There and Back Again") Green Civic.

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: George Butterfield <gbutterf1@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Richard's horses


 
I think that I shall start a trend and name my car "Black Albion" sounds so much finer than X5!
George

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 12, 2013, at 10:50 AM, Judy Thomson judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

> Which Whit? No, Whit Which.
>
> Sounds like "Who's on first."
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
> 

And didn't the nobility prefer white or dappled gray?

I saw a painting recently of the Battle of Barnet or Tewkesbury. All the soldiers' armor was black. Wha-at?


--- In , George Butterfield wrote:
>
> The good guys always ride on white horses.

My second car was a dull grey Audi called Excalibur because its maintenance cost so much, I should have driven it into a lake and begged the faeries to take it. I learned to drive Subarus and geldings.


--- In , Judy Thomson wrote:
>
> Black Albion? Like it, George. 
>
> Not so horsy, but actually, we always name our cars. Last one was Alice ("To the moon!") Red Accord; she almost made it - 234,000 miles. And now we have Frodo (aka "There and Back Again") Green Civic.
>
> Judy

More of Richard's horses.
Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
 
These were found in  Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.

First Liard
Lyard Danby
Liard Hoton
The Gret Gray from gervaux.
Trotting Moungomery.
Biard Culton ( Trotting )
Blak Morelle
The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
The Walssh  ( Hoby )
Jak
Liard bradshare
The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
Biard Verney
The Blak of Holdernesse.
The Hoby of Griffithe
The Hoby of Kildare
Lyard Say
Beyard Lanthony

Beyard Chambreleyne
Liard Bowes
The Dover Hoby
Liard Hartre
Grey gelding of Savelles
The Holy Whiche Maister
The White Whiche
Liard Clervax of Croft  ( ambling )
Biard Babingstone
Liard Strangwisshe
Liard Cultone ( trotting )
The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
Biard Rither

Horses at Holdernesse
Liard Mountfort
A Hoby
A mare and

How many horses does one need?!!!
Did he acquire them after he became king or had them when he was still the duke of Gloucester?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Jan 17, 2013, at 5:24 AM, C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> wrote:

> More of Richard's horses.
> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
>
> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>
> First Liard
> Lyard Danby
> Liard Hoton
> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> Trotting Moungomery.
> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> The Walssh ( Hoby )
> Jak
> Liard bradshare
> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> Biard Verney
> The Blak of Holdernesse.
> The Hoby of Griffithe
> The Hoby of Kildare
> Lyard Say
> Beyard Lanthony
>
> Beyard Chambreleyne
> Liard Bowes
> The Dover Hoby
> Liard Hartre
> Grey gelding of Savelles
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The White Whiche
> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> Biard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> Biard Rither
>
> Horses at Holdernesse
> Liard Mountfort
> A Hoby
> A mare and
>
>
>
>

Thanks Christine - love the names. What is/type of horse is a Hoby? Did
it have long legs & become the Hobby horse of folklore.<VBG>????

Jac

*****************

In message <1358418277.29226.YahooMailNeo@...>,
C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> writes
>More of Richard's horses.
>Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his
>horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked
>it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of
>interest to you all.
> 
>These were found in  Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
>Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
>The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which
>were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>
>First Liard
>Lyard Danby
>Liard Hoton
>The Gret Gray from gervaux.
>Trotting Moungomery.
>Biard Culton ( Trotting )
>Blak Morelle
>The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
>Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
>The Walssh  ( Hoby )
>Jak
>Liard bradshare
>The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
>Biard Verney
>The Blak of Holdernesse.
>The Hoby of Griffithe
>The Hoby of Kildare
>Lyard Say
>Beyard Lanthony
>
>Beyard Chambreleyne
>Liard Bowes
>The Dover Hoby
>Liard Hartre
>Grey gelding of Savelles
>The Holy Whiche Maister
>The White Whiche
>Liard Clervax of Croft  ( ambling )
>Biard Babingstone
>Liard Strangwisshe
>Liard Cultone ( trotting )
>The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
>Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
>Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
>Biard Rither
>
>Horses at Holdernesse
>Liard Mountfort
>A Hoby
>A mare and
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--

Hello All
These horses are on the books under the King's horses but I would think Richard had many as Duke anyway.
Christine

Hi All, answer to Jacqui's question re Hobby/Hoby ,it is a light weight horse, quick and agile used by medieval light cavalry such as the Hobelars used efectively by Edward at Tewkesbury to support Richard's left flank.
Destrier is a war horse also called Great Horse.
Courser is a swift strong horse frequently used as a warhorse, has a running gait.
Palfrey is a riding horse has an ambling gait, smooth ride used for riding, hunting and ceremonial work.
Rouncey a riding horse, could be trained for war used by poorer knights.

Ambling is faster than a walk but slower than a canter and trotting has a stable gait, both for a more comfotable ride.
Lots of info on medieval horse on Wikipedia.
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine

I suppose that one can never have "too" many horses, bit like Ferrari's of the time.
George


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 17, 2013, at 8:05 AM, Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...> wrote:

> How many horses does one need?!!!
> Did he acquire them after he became king or had them when he was still the duke of Gloucester?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 5:24 AM, C HOLMES christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> > More of Richard's horses.
> > Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
> >
> > These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> > Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> > The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
> >
> > First Liard
> > Lyard Danby
> > Liard Hoton
> > The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> > Trotting Moungomery.
> > Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> > Blak Morelle
> > The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> > Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> > The Walssh ( Hoby )
> > Jak
> > Liard bradshare
> > The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> > Biard Verney
> > The Blak of Holdernesse.
> > The Hoby of Griffithe
> > The Hoby of Kildare
> > Lyard Say
> > Beyard Lanthony
> >
> > Beyard Chambreleyne
> > Liard Bowes
> > The Dover Hoby
> > Liard Hartre
> > Grey gelding of Savelles
> > The Holy Whiche Maister
> > The White Whiche
> > Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> > Biard Babingstone
> > Liard Strangwisshe
> > Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> > The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> > Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> > Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> > Biard Rither
> >
> > Horses at Holdernesse
> > Liard Mountfort
> > A Hoby
> > A mare and
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

Fantastic!! thank you Christine - all new to me:) I'll do a Wiki
search too!


cheers

Jac

******************
In message <1358432902.88776.YahooMailNeo@...>,
C HOLMES <christineholmes651@...> writes
>Hi All, answer to Jacqui's question re Hobby/Hoby ,it is a light weight
>horse, quick and agile used by medieval light cavalry such as the
>Hobelars used efectively by Edward at Tewkesbury to support Richard's
>left flank.
>Destrier is a war horse also called Great Horse.
>Courser is a swift strong horse frequently used as a warhorse, has a
>running gait.
>Palfrey is a riding horse has an ambling gait, smooth ride used for
>riding, hunting and ceremonial work.
>Rouncey a riding horse, could be trained for war used by poorer knights.
>
>Ambling is faster than a walk but slower than a canter and trotting has
>a stable gait, both for a more comfotable ride.
>Lots of info on medieval horse on Wikipedia.
>Loyaulte me Lie
>Christine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--

Thanks for all the wonderful information on horses. To ask a silly sort of question: I assume Richard rode his war horse into battle, but what kind of horse would he have rode into Leicester before the battle? And after he was slain, what horse would have served as his transport? (Assuming it was not a donkey.) Maire.

--- In , jacqui wrote:
>
>
> Fantastic!! thank you Christine - all new to me:) I'll do a Wiki
> search too!
>
>
> cheers
>
> Jac
>
> ******************
> In message <1358432902.88776.YahooMailNeo@...>,
> C HOLMES writes
> >Hi All, answer to Jacqui's question re Hobby/Hoby ,it is a light weight
> >horse, quick and agile used by medieval light cavalry such as the
> >Hobelars used efectively by Edward at Tewkesbury to support Richard's
> >left flank.
> >Destrier is a war horse also called Great Horse.
> >Courser is a swift strong horse frequently used as a warhorse, has a
> >running gait.
> >Palfrey is a riding horse has an ambling gait, smooth ride used for
> >riding, hunting and ceremonial work.
> >Rouncey a riding horse, could be trained for war used by poorer knights.
> >
> >Ambling is faster than a walk but slower than a canter and trotting has
> >a stable gait, both for a more comfotable ride.
> >Lots of info on medieval horse on Wikipedia.
> >Loyaulte me Lie
> >Christine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>

Here's the Wiki link that Christine mentioned. Fascinating!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_Middle_Ages

Jac

Hello, I believe Richard was taken into Leicester by his Herald, they were responsible for counting the dead.
I read somewhere that the herald was in tears leading Richard, though I can't remember where I read it.
I don't know what horse he would have ridden into Leicester.
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine

Thank you, Christine. Maire.
--- In , C HOLMES wrote:
>
> Hello, I believe Richard was taken into Leicester by his Herald, they were responsible for counting the dead.
> I read somewhere that the herald was in tears leading Richard, though I can't remember where I read it.
> I don't know what horse he would have ridden into Leicester.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
>

Well, done Christine!
I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
Paul
On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:

> More of Richard's horses.
> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
>
> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>
> First Liard
> Lyard Danby
> Liard Hoton
> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> Trotting Moungomery.
> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> The Walssh ( Hoby )
> Jak
> Liard bradshare
> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> Biard Verney
> The Blak of Holdernesse.
> The Hoby of Griffithe
> The Hoby of Kildare
> Lyard Say
> Beyard Lanthony
>
> Beyard Chambreleyne
> Liard Bowes
> The Dover Hoby
> Liard Hartre
> Grey gelding of Savelles
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The White Whiche
> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> Biard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> Biard Rither
>
> Horses at Holdernesse
> Liard Mountfort
> A Hoby
> A mare and
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Perhaps it was the Great Grey from Gervaux?

Anne





To:
From: paul.bale@...
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:26:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses





Well, done Christine!
I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
Paul
On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:

> More of Richard's horses.
> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
>
> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>
> First Liard
> Lyard Danby
> Liard Hoton
> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> Trotting Moungomery.
> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> The Walssh ( Hoby )
> Jak
> Liard bradshare
> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> Biard Verney
> The Blak of Holdernesse.
> The Hoby of Griffithe
> The Hoby of Kildare
> Lyard Say
> Beyard Lanthony
>
> Beyard Chambreleyne
> Liard Bowes
> The Dover Hoby
> Liard Hartre
> Grey gelding of Savelles
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The White Whiche
> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> Biard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> Biard Rither
>
> Horses at Holdernesse
> Liard Mountfort
> A Hoby
> A mare and
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Hi Paul I wonder if the name is a corruption of the White Syrian, perhaps a stallion brought from abroad.
Christine


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013, 15:26
Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses

 

Well, done Christine!
I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
Paul
On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:

> More of Richard's horses.
> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
>
> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>
> First Liard
> Lyard Danby
> Liard Hoton
> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> Trotting Moungomery.
> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> The Walssh ( Hoby )
> Jak
> Liard bradshare
> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> Biard Verney
> The Blak of Holdernesse.
> The Hoby of Griffithe
> The Hoby of Kildare
> Lyard Say
> Beyard Lanthony
>
> Beyard Chambreleyne
> Liard Bowes
> The Dover Hoby
> Liard Hartre
> Grey gelding of Savelles
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The White Whiche
> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> Biard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> Biard Rither
>
> Horses at Holdernesse
> Liard Mountfort
> A Hoby
> A mare and
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!


 

Hi Anne, You could well be right but why White Surrey, doesn't seem to fit with anything pertaining to Richard or Jervaux  where Richard purchased it from the friars there, they bred horses there and I'm sure you know it was near Middleham.
Christine
Loyaulte me Lie


________________________________
From: Anne Milton <wobblydog1@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013, 15:56
Subject: RE: Re: Richard's horses


Perhaps it was the Great Grey from Gervaux?

Anne





To:
From: paul.bale@...
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:26:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses

 



Well, done Christine!
I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
Paul
On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:

> More of Richard's horses.
> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
>
> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>
> First Liard
> Lyard Danby
> Liard Hoton
> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> Trotting Moungomery.
> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> Blak Morelle
> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> The Walssh ( Hoby )
> Jak
> Liard bradshare
> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> Biard Verney
> The Blak of Holdernesse.
> The Hoby of Griffithe
> The Hoby of Kildare
> Lyard Say
> Beyard Lanthony
>
> Beyard Chambreleyne
> Liard Bowes
> The Dover Hoby
> Liard Hartre
> Grey gelding of Savelles
> The Holy Whiche Maister
> The White Whiche
> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> Biard Babingstone
> Liard Strangwisshe
> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> Biard Rither
>
> Horses at Holdernesse
> Liard Mountfort
> A Hoby
> A mare and
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!




                       





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I expect you all know that Middleham is today associated with horses/horse racing...strange...Eileen

--- In , C HOLMES wrote:
>
> Hi Anne, You could well be right but why White Surrey, doesn't seem to fit with anything pertaining to Richard or Jervaux  where Richard purchased it from the friars there, they bred horses there and I'm sure you know it was near Middleham.
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Anne Milton
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013, 15:56
> Subject: RE: Re: Richard's horses
>
>
> Perhaps it was the Great Grey from Gervaux?
>
> Anne
>
>
>
>
>
> To:
> From: paul.bale@...
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:26:44 +0000
> Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses
>
>  
>
>
>
> Well, done Christine!
> I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
> Paul
> On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:
>
> > More of Richard's horses.
> > Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
> >
> > These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
> > Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
> > The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
> >
> > First Liard
> > Lyard Danby
> > Liard Hoton
> > The Gret Gray from gervaux.
> > Trotting Moungomery.
> > Biard Culton ( Trotting )
> > Blak Morelle
> > The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
> > Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
> > The Walssh ( Hoby )
> > Jak
> > Liard bradshare
> > The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
> > Biard Verney
> > The Blak of Holdernesse.
> > The Hoby of Griffithe
> > The Hoby of Kildare
> > Lyard Say
> > Beyard Lanthony
> >
> > Beyard Chambreleyne
> > Liard Bowes
> > The Dover Hoby
> > Liard Hartre
> > Grey gelding of Savelles
> > The Holy Whiche Maister
> > The White Whiche
> > Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
> > Biard Babingstone
> > Liard Strangwisshe
> > Liard Cultone ( trotting )
> > The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
> > Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
> > Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
> > Biard Rither
> >
> > Horses at Holdernesse
> > Liard Mountfort
> > A Hoby
> > A mare and
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>                        
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Do we know who the Herald was? I've tracked down two names: More and Watkyns. Maire.
--- In , C HOLMES wrote:
>
> Hello, I believe Richard was taken into Leicester by his Herald, they were responsible for counting the dead.
> I read somewhere that the herald was in tears leading Richard, though I can't remember where I read it.
> I don't know what horse he would have ridden into Leicester.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
>

But why a corruption? What was wrong with calling it Syrian, especially with Richard's acknowledged wish to go on Crusade? Richard on top the Syrian!
I still think it more likely just a poetic invention of the Bard.
Paul

On 18 Jan 2013, at 16:06, C HOLMES wrote:

> Hi Paul I wonder if the name is a corruption of the White Syrian, perhaps a stallion brought from abroad.
> Christine
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013, 15:26
> Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses
>
>
>
> Well, done Christine!
> I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
> Paul
> On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:
>
>> More of Richard's horses.
>> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of interest to you all.
>>
>> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
>> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
>> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>>
>> First Liard
>> Lyard Danby
>> Liard Hoton
>> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
>> Trotting Moungomery.
>> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
>> Blak Morelle
>> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
>> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
>> The Walssh ( Hoby )
>> Jak
>> Liard bradshare
>> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
>> Biard Verney
>> The Blak of Holdernesse.
>> The Hoby of Griffithe
>> The Hoby of Kildare
>> Lyard Say
>> Beyard Lanthony
>>
>> Beyard Chambreleyne
>> Liard Bowes
>> The Dover Hoby
>> Liard Hartre
>> Grey gelding of Savelles
>> The Holy Whiche Maister
>> The White Whiche
>> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
>> Biard Babingstone
>> Liard Strangwisshe
>> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
>> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
>> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
>> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
>> Biard Rither
>>
>> Horses at Holdernesse
>> Liard Mountfort
>> A Hoby
>> A mare and
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Richard Liveth Yet!

Think you might be right Paul!

http://lanceandlongbow.com/article2.php

Jac



In message <AAE30EBF-6D2D-4EDA-9BFF-DB7F5FED7C1C@...>, Paul Trevor
Bale <paul.bale@...> writes
>But why a corruption? What was wrong with calling it Syrian, especially
>with Richard's acknowledged wish to go on Crusade? Richard on top the
>Syrian!
>I still think it more likely just a poetic invention of the Bard.
>Paul
>
>On 18 Jan 2013, at 16:06, C HOLMES wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul I wonder if the name is a corruption of the White Syrian,
>>perhaps a stallion brought from abroad.
>> Christine
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013, 15:26
>> Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, done Christine!
>> I wonder where the White Surrey legend began?
>> Paul
>> On 17 Jan 2013, at 10:24, C HOLMES wrote:
>>
>>> More of Richard's horses.
>>> Paul's message got me thinking as to where I had seen a list of his
>>>horses out to grass and remembered it was the Harleian Vols so looked
>>>it up and found additions to Paul's list so here it is, hope it's of
>>>interest to you all.
>>>
>>> These were found in Harleian Vol 1 pages 4 and 5
>>> Horses to Grass in various places around the country.
>>> The brackets are the type of horse such as ambling and trotting
>>>which were used for different sorts of riding and journeys.
>>>
>>> First Liard
>>> Lyard Danby
>>> Liard Hoton
>>> The Gret Gray from gervaux.
>>> Trotting Moungomery.
>>> Biard Culton ( Trotting )
>>> Blak Morelle
>>> The Whit of Gervaux( trotting for My Lady )
>>> Morel of Cristalle ( Trotting )
>>> The Walssh ( Hoby )
>>> Jak
>>> Liard bradshare
>>> The Gret Bay Gelding of Gervaux
>>> Biard Verney
>>> The Blak of Holdernesse.
>>> The Hoby of Griffithe
>>> The Hoby of Kildare
>>> Lyard Say
>>> Beyard Lanthony
>>>
>>> Beyard Chambreleyne
>>> Liard Bowes
>>> The Dover Hoby
>>> Liard Hartre
>>> Grey gelding of Savelles
>>> The Holy Whiche Maister
>>> The White Whiche
>>> Liard Clervax of Croft ( ambling )
>>> Biard Babingstone
>>> Liard Strangwisshe
>>> Liard Cultone ( trotting )
>>> The Little Whit of Knaresburghe
>>> Liard Carlisle ( Trotting )
>>> Liard Norfolk ( Ambling )
>>> Biard Rither
>>>
>>> Horses at Holdernesse
>>> Liard Mountfort
>>> A Hoby
>>> A mare and
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Richard Liveth Yet!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

--

I've been askin' this same question for two years, and keep getting different answers ;-)

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: mairemulholland <mairemulholland@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Richard's horses


 

Do we know who the Herald was? I've tracked down two names: More and Watkyns. Maire.

The ambling gait is traditionally a 4-beat gait that falls between the trot and the walk.  It can be very fast, but is absolutely smoooooooth for the rider and very easy energy expenditure-wise for the horse.  Check out the tolt of the Icelandic horse (which would not be a far reach to ship).  It also tends to show up in the offspring of horses crossed on one with such a gait.  

Youtube video of nice Icelandic horse at tolt; starts slow, then demonstrates speed and smoothness of the gait.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7rWeWymJDw


~Penny


Re: Richard's horses
Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:28 am (PST) . Posted by:
"C HOLMES" christineholmes651@...
Hi All, answer to Jacqui's question re Hobby/Hoby ,it is a
light weight horse, quick and agile used by medieval light cavalry such
as the Hobelars used efectively by Edward at Tewkesbury to support
Richard' s left flank.
Destrier is a war horse also called Great Horse.
Courser is a swift strong horse frequently used as a warhorse, has a running gait.
Palfrey is a riding horse has an ambling gait, smooth ride used for riding, hunting and ceremonial work.
Rouncey a riding horse, could be trained for war used by poorer knights.

Ambling is faster than a walk but slower than a canter and trotting has a stable gait, both for a more comfortable ride.
Lots of info on medieval horse on Wikipedia.
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine

 
Live simply.  Love generously.  Care deeply.  Speak kindly.
        And never regret anything that made you smile.

Me too Judy, I keep looking. Those two names do crop up.
Loyaulte me Lie
|Christine


________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 18 January 2013, 21:36
Subject: Re: Re: Richard's horses


 

I've been askin' this same question for two years, and keep getting different answers ;-)

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: mairemulholland mailto:mairemulholland%40yahoo.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Richard's horses


 

Do we know who the Herald was? I've tracked down two names: More and Watkyns. Maire.