Article on MB
Article on MB
2013-01-13 18:19:04
While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
Eileen
I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
Eileen
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 18:26:42
Great article!
You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
Subject: Article on MB
While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
Eileen
You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
Subject: Article on MB
While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
Eileen
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 19:17:58
Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
--- In , Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Great article!
> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> Subject: Article on MB
>
>
> Â
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
--- In , Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Great article!
> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> Subject: Article on MB
>
>
> Â
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 20:24:09
Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Great article!
> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> Subject: Article on MB
>
>
> Â
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Great article!
> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> Subject: Article on MB
>
>
> Â
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 20:57:34
Just read it. Good article that I've not seen before. Hilary
--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 21:46:02
I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > Â
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > Â
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 22:21:35
No problems. I quite understand that Ishita.
________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 21:45
Subject: Re: Article on MB
I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones mailto:hjnatdat%40yahoo.com> wrote:
> Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > Â
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 21:45
Subject: Re: Article on MB
I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones mailto:hjnatdat%40yahoo.com> wrote:
> Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > Â
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-13 23:34:15
Sorry, coming a bit late to the party. As webmaster of the NSW site I would like to thank all of you for your kind words.
As to MB, I agree with Ishita. I don't like her, but understand her.
Cheers, Dorothea
________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > Â
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
As to MB, I agree with Ishita. I don't like her, but understand her.
Cheers, Dorothea
________________________________
From: Richard Yahoo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > Â
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 11:29:00
Too right Eileen
Christine
Loyaulte me Lie
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Great article!
> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> Subject: Article on MB
>
>
> Â
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Christine
Loyaulte me Lie
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>
> Great article!
> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> Subject: Article on MB
>
>
> Â
> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>
> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>
> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>
> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>
> Eileen
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 13:08:53
Your welcome Dorothea...there is a lot of interesting stuff on your site...I am going for a delve later on today....Eileen
On 13 Jan 2013, at 23:34, Dorothea Preis wrote:
> Sorry, coming a bit late to the party. As webmaster of the NSW site I would like to thank all of you for your kind words.
>
> As to MB, I agree with Ishita. I don't like her, but understand her.
>
> Cheers, Dorothea
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo bandyoi@...>
> To: "" >
> Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
> I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> > Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> > Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >
> > Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> > Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >
> > Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> > >
> > > Great article!
> > > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > > Subject: Article on MB
> > >
> > >
> > > ý
> > > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> > >
> > > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> > >
> > > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> > >
> > > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> > >
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
On 13 Jan 2013, at 23:34, Dorothea Preis wrote:
> Sorry, coming a bit late to the party. As webmaster of the NSW site I would like to thank all of you for your kind words.
>
> As to MB, I agree with Ishita. I don't like her, but understand her.
>
> Cheers, Dorothea
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Yahoo bandyoi@...>
> To: "" >
> Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
> I don't " like" her but do understand her wish to see her son succeed.......
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Hilary Jones hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> > Glad you like the NSW site. What is 'weird' is that there is roughly the same age difference between MB and H7 and R and EOY - didn't work that out till recently - and she didn't see her son for years. A strange (and probably damaged) woman who had to be in control. Like you Eileen I find it very hard to find anything to like about her. Morton - I have him very much as an opportunist, but a pain in the neck in our story all the same. Hilary
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> > To:
> > Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> > Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >
> > Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> > Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >
> > Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> > >
> > > Great article!
> > > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > > Subject: Article on MB
> > >
> > >
> > > ý
> > > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> > >
> > > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> > >
> > > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> > >
> > > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> > >
> > > Eileen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 13:19:17
Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> Too right Eileen
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > ý
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> Too right Eileen
> Christine
> Loyaulte me Lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>
>
>
>
> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>
> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>
> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >
> > Great article!
> > You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > Subject: Article on MB
> >
> >
> > ý
> > While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >
> > I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >
> > The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >
> > http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >
> > Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 13:42:57
Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
> Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
>
>> Too right Eileen
>> Christine
>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
>> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>>
>> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
>> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>>
>> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>>>
>>> Great article!
>>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: EileenB
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
>>> Subject: Article on MB
>>>
>>>
>>> Â
>>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>>>
>>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>>>
>>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>>>
>>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>>>
>>> Eileen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
> Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
>
>> Too right Eileen
>> Christine
>> Loyaulte me Lie
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
>> Subject: Re: Article on MB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
>>
>> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
>> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
>>
>> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
>>>
>>> Great article!
>>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: EileenB
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
>>> Subject: Article on MB
>>>
>>>
>>> Â
>>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
>>>
>>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
>>>
>>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
>>>
>>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
>>>
>>> Eileen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 13:55:58
Ishita...I do agree with you on that....Its highly likely that from her perception, certainly askew, but still her perception, she probably squared everything up in her mind...that it was her right etc., Couple her up with Morton and Richard had a very, very dangerous and lethal enemy. A strong, determined woman, brave even...Do I admire her...No!
Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Â
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Â
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 13:57:12
Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Â
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Â
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 14:29:59
Hi, Yes, Henry Stafford, MB's 2nd husband was Buck's uncle, complicated by the fact that Buck's father, Humphrey Stafford (DOBucks d 1458) also had a wife called Margaret Beaufort. Hilary
--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
>
> --- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
> >
> > Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
> >
> > Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
> >
> > Ishita Bandyo
> > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
> >
> > > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> > >
> > >> Too right Eileen
> > >> Christine
> > >> Loyaulte me Lie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> > >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> > >>
> > >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> > >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> > >>
> > >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> > >>
> > >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Great article!
> > >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>> From: EileenB
> > >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > >>> Subject: Article on MB
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Â
> > >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> > >>>
> > >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> > >>>
> > >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> > >>>
> > >>> Eileen
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
>
> --- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
> >
> > Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
> >
> > Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
> >
> > Ishita Bandyo
> > www.ishitabandyo.com
> > www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> > www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
> >
> > On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
> >
> > > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> > >
> > >> Too right Eileen
> > >> Christine
> > >> Loyaulte me Lie
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> > >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> > >>
> > >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> > >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> > >>
> > >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> > >>
> > >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Great article!
> > >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ________________________________
> > >>> From: EileenB
> > >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> > >>> Subject: Article on MB
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Â
> > >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> > >>>
> > >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> > >>>
> > >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> > >>>
> > >>> Eileen
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 14:54:21
Yes, 1425-81 and died without issue.
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ã,
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ã,
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 15:31:19
MB didn't have a claim to the throne. She was descended from John of Gaunt through the illegimate Beaufort family. Henry IV legitimated them but expressly said that they had no claim to the throne. The Dukedom of Lancaster was given to John of Gaunt because he had married Blanche, daughter of the Duke of Lancaster. Also JAH wrote an article in the Ricardian explaining how Henry IV claimed the throne through his mother not his father.
However, there was no Lancastrian claim to the throne either because John of Gaunt was Edward III's third son and Lionel, Duke of Clarence was his second son. Henry Bolingbroke usurped the throne and possibly murdered Richard II. I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Â
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
However, there was no Lancastrian claim to the throne either because John of Gaunt was Edward III's third son and Lionel, Duke of Clarence was his second son. Henry Bolingbroke usurped the throne and possibly murdered Richard II. I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Â
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 16:08:34
Richard II's heir-general was Edmund Mortimer (1391-1425), whose father had died in 1398. His sister Anne was the ancestress of the Yorkist and all subsequent monarchs.
----- Original Message -----
From: ricard1an
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
MB didn't have a claim to the throne. She was descended from John of Gaunt through the illegimate Beaufort family. Henry IV legitimated them but expressly said that they had no claim to the throne. The Dukedom of Lancaster was given to John of Gaunt because he had married Blanche, daughter of the Duke of Lancaster. Also JAH wrote an article in the Ricardian explaining how Henry IV claimed the throne through his mother not his father.
However, there was no Lancastrian claim to the throne either because John of Gaunt was Edward III's third son and Lionel, Duke of Clarence was his second son. Henry Bolingbroke usurped the throne and possibly murdered Richard II. I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ã,
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
----- Original Message -----
From: ricard1an
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
MB didn't have a claim to the throne. She was descended from John of Gaunt through the illegimate Beaufort family. Henry IV legitimated them but expressly said that they had no claim to the throne. The Dukedom of Lancaster was given to John of Gaunt because he had married Blanche, daughter of the Duke of Lancaster. Also JAH wrote an article in the Ricardian explaining how Henry IV claimed the throne through his mother not his father.
However, there was no Lancastrian claim to the throne either because John of Gaunt was Edward III's third son and Lionel, Duke of Clarence was his second son. Henry Bolingbroke usurped the throne and possibly murdered Richard II. I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Regards
Mary
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ã,
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 19:34:55
In fact Henry Stafford died in 1471 from wounds received at Barnet:
http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/302/330/
Margaret married Thomas Stanley soon afterwards.
________________________________
From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013, 14:46
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Yes, 1425-81 and died without issue.
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ã,
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/302/330/
Margaret married Thomas Stanley soon afterwards.
________________________________
From: Stephen Lark <stephenmlark@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013, 14:46
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Yes, 1425-81 and died without issue.
----- Original Message -----
From: EileenB
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Don't know about the Buck question...Where is Stephen when you need him? :0) Eileen
--- In , Richard Yahoo wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
> Btw, the Henry Stafford she married, was he our Buck's uncle? They intermarried a lot, didn't they? So hard to keep track of them all!
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:19 AM, eileen bates wrote:
>
> > Well Christine...you don't encourage your children to take/steal what is not theirs do you?....no matter how much you would like to see them get on and do well in life...there is a line to be drawn.... and tragically this is one of the occasions when the bad guys got to win....Eileen
> > On 14 Jan 2013, at 11:28, C HOLMES wrote:
> >
> >> Too right Eileen
> >> Christine
> >> Loyaulte me Lie
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 19:17
> >> Subject: Re: Article on MB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Glad you liked the article...there is some good stuff on the NSW site..
> >>
> >> Well I cannot say I agree with you on not blaming MB....although of course she was not the only one involved....I think she was thoroughly to blame. Striving for self preservation and self advancement is one thing but to bring civil war once again to England...so that countless other mothers sons died in the way we saw in the documentary we were discussing on Towton earlier...dying in agony and screaming....hacked to pieces.
> >> Fabulously rich... MB had it all...She carried Anne's train at her coronation...Why could she have just not left it at trying to persuade Richard to allow her son to return to England.
> >>
> >> Possibly if it had not been for MB and Morton Richard may well have lived and reigned for many years....and done untold good. Instead we got the Tudor regime...I wonder how MB would have felt if she could have seen into the future and the destruction that her grandson wrought upon the great and beautiful abbeys of this land leaving nothing but ruins. No wonder it is said that she was prone to fits of weeping....Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Ishita Bandyo wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Great article!
> >>> You know, I really cannot blame MB for what he did to advance his son's career...... As as mother I would possible do the same. If I had that kind of talent;)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: EileenB
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Article on MB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ã,
> >>> While taking a look at the Richard lll NSW website looking for the article Hilary mentioned I found this very interesting articles on MB....
> >>>
> >>> I was pleased to see that a couple things mentioned in the article are precisely what I have been thinking for a long time. The possibility that Edward of Middleham was poisoned...and that the many pious acts of MB may have been because she was seeking to cut down any time spent in purgatory....
> >>>
> >>> The article also mentions the book by Michael Jones on MB which I was considering buying...I think I will do so now...Anyway this article is a good read....
> >>>
> >>> http://www.richardiii-nsw.org.au/?page_id=1486
> >>>
> >>> Eileen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 21:04:17
Ishita wrote:
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
<snip>
Carol responds:
Actually, neither Henry Tudor nor his mother was the last Lancastrian heir. Their claim was only through the originally illegitimate Beaufort line (barred from the throne by Henry IV--no male Beaufort ever presented himself as a claimant to the throne to my knowledge). Henry's father was the half-brother of Henry VI through their French mother, Catherine of Valois. There were, however, several members of European royal families with a better claim to be the Lancastrian heir than Henry Tudor since they were descended from John of Gaunt's legitimate daughters. Why anyone considered Henry Tudor's claim valid is beyond me. Most of them were either diehard Lancastrians like the Earl of Oxford who hated the House of York (for much the same reasons that Margaret Beaufort did) or Yorkist malcontents who had hoped to profit under the Woodvilles.
Even if MB considered the Yorkists to be usurpers (which she undoubtedly did), she would have known that her dear son had a much shakier claim than Richard's and that Henry, too, would be a usurper if he took the crown from an anointed king, which must have seemed a long shot at first. Even Henry himself indirectly acknowledged that he was a usurper when he claimed the throne by right of conquest (rather than blood or a Yorkist marriage that had not yet occurred). The difference is that he succeeded in his propaganda campaign to blacken Richard's name and pin the usurper label on him. It's rather like claiming that it's all right to steal a stolen crown because in doing so he was returning it to the "rightful" owner. (Richard no doubt felt much the same way about his own claim.)
At any rate, though I do feel sorry for Margaret Beaufort's having to bear a child at age thirteen, my sympathy for her evaporates when I think of all the intrigue she was involved in and all the blood that was shed to fulfill her dream for a son she barely knew. If it weren't for her and Morton, Richard would have lived to fulfill *his* dream--and England (IMO) would have been better off.
Carol
>
> Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
<snip>
Carol responds:
Actually, neither Henry Tudor nor his mother was the last Lancastrian heir. Their claim was only through the originally illegitimate Beaufort line (barred from the throne by Henry IV--no male Beaufort ever presented himself as a claimant to the throne to my knowledge). Henry's father was the half-brother of Henry VI through their French mother, Catherine of Valois. There were, however, several members of European royal families with a better claim to be the Lancastrian heir than Henry Tudor since they were descended from John of Gaunt's legitimate daughters. Why anyone considered Henry Tudor's claim valid is beyond me. Most of them were either diehard Lancastrians like the Earl of Oxford who hated the House of York (for much the same reasons that Margaret Beaufort did) or Yorkist malcontents who had hoped to profit under the Woodvilles.
Even if MB considered the Yorkists to be usurpers (which she undoubtedly did), she would have known that her dear son had a much shakier claim than Richard's and that Henry, too, would be a usurper if he took the crown from an anointed king, which must have seemed a long shot at first. Even Henry himself indirectly acknowledged that he was a usurper when he claimed the throne by right of conquest (rather than blood or a Yorkist marriage that had not yet occurred). The difference is that he succeeded in his propaganda campaign to blacken Richard's name and pin the usurper label on him. It's rather like claiming that it's all right to steal a stolen crown because in doing so he was returning it to the "rightful" owner. (Richard no doubt felt much the same way about his own claim.)
At any rate, though I do feel sorry for Margaret Beaufort's having to bear a child at age thirteen, my sympathy for her evaporates when I think of all the intrigue she was involved in and all the blood that was shed to fulfill her dream for a son she barely knew. If it weren't for her and Morton, Richard would have lived to fulfill *his* dream--and England (IMO) would have been better off.
Carol
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 21:26:19
When you come to think about it...MB did not seem bothered about the chance that her only son might very well lose his life in any rebellion and the battles that would surely follow....especially as HT does not seem to have been cast in warrior mould...funny that...Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> Ishita wrote:
> >
> > Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
>
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Actually, neither Henry Tudor nor his mother was the last Lancastrian heir. Their claim was only through the originally illegitimate Beaufort line (barred from the throne by Henry IV--no male Beaufort ever presented himself as a claimant to the throne to my knowledge). Henry's father was the half-brother of Henry VI through their French mother, Catherine of Valois. There were, however, several members of European royal families with a better claim to be the Lancastrian heir than Henry Tudor since they were descended from John of Gaunt's legitimate daughters. Why anyone considered Henry Tudor's claim valid is beyond me. Most of them were either diehard Lancastrians like the Earl of Oxford who hated the House of York (for much the same reasons that Margaret Beaufort did) or Yorkist malcontents who had hoped to profit under the Woodvilles.
>
> Even if MB considered the Yorkists to be usurpers (which she undoubtedly did), she would have known that her dear son had a much shakier claim than Richard's and that Henry, too, would be a usurper if he took the crown from an anointed king, which must have seemed a long shot at first. Even Henry himself indirectly acknowledged that he was a usurper when he claimed the throne by right of conquest (rather than blood or a Yorkist marriage that had not yet occurred). The difference is that he succeeded in his propaganda campaign to blacken Richard's name and pin the usurper label on him. It's rather like claiming that it's all right to steal a stolen crown because in doing so he was returning it to the "rightful" owner. (Richard no doubt felt much the same way about his own claim.)
>
> At any rate, though I do feel sorry for Margaret Beaufort's having to bear a child at age thirteen, my sympathy for her evaporates when I think of all the intrigue she was involved in and all the blood that was shed to fulfill her dream for a son she barely knew. If it weren't for her and Morton, Richard would have lived to fulfill *his* dream--and England (IMO) would have been better off.
>
> Carol
>
--- In , "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> Ishita wrote:
> >
> > Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
>
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Actually, neither Henry Tudor nor his mother was the last Lancastrian heir. Their claim was only through the originally illegitimate Beaufort line (barred from the throne by Henry IV--no male Beaufort ever presented himself as a claimant to the throne to my knowledge). Henry's father was the half-brother of Henry VI through their French mother, Catherine of Valois. There were, however, several members of European royal families with a better claim to be the Lancastrian heir than Henry Tudor since they were descended from John of Gaunt's legitimate daughters. Why anyone considered Henry Tudor's claim valid is beyond me. Most of them were either diehard Lancastrians like the Earl of Oxford who hated the House of York (for much the same reasons that Margaret Beaufort did) or Yorkist malcontents who had hoped to profit under the Woodvilles.
>
> Even if MB considered the Yorkists to be usurpers (which she undoubtedly did), she would have known that her dear son had a much shakier claim than Richard's and that Henry, too, would be a usurper if he took the crown from an anointed king, which must have seemed a long shot at first. Even Henry himself indirectly acknowledged that he was a usurper when he claimed the throne by right of conquest (rather than blood or a Yorkist marriage that had not yet occurred). The difference is that he succeeded in his propaganda campaign to blacken Richard's name and pin the usurper label on him. It's rather like claiming that it's all right to steal a stolen crown because in doing so he was returning it to the "rightful" owner. (Richard no doubt felt much the same way about his own claim.)
>
> At any rate, though I do feel sorry for Margaret Beaufort's having to bear a child at age thirteen, my sympathy for her evaporates when I think of all the intrigue she was involved in and all the blood that was shed to fulfill her dream for a son she barely knew. If it weren't for her and Morton, Richard would have lived to fulfill *his* dream--and England (IMO) would have been better off.
>
> Carol
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-14 22:01:14
That's so true!
Hmm, was she that blinded by ambition that she would rather have his child die than give up a shaky (if at all) claim to the throne?! Makes you wonder about the mental stability of the woman!
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
When you come to think about it...MB did not seem bothered about the chance that her only son might very well lose his life in any rebellion and the battles that would surely follow....especially as HT does not seem to have been cast in warrior mould...funny that...Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> Ishita wrote:
> >
> > Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
>
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Actually, neither Henry Tudor nor his mother was the last Lancastrian heir. Their claim was only through the originally illegitimate Beaufort line (barred from the throne by Henry IV--no male Beaufort ever presented himself as a claimant to the throne to my knowledge). Henry's father was the half-brother of Henry VI through their French mother, Catherine of Valois. There were, however, several members of European royal families with a better claim to be the Lancastrian heir than Henry Tudor since they were descended from John of Gaunt's legitimate daughters. Why anyone considered Henry Tudor's claim valid is beyond me. Most of them were either diehard Lancastrians like the Earl of Oxford who hated the House of York (for much the same reasons that Margaret Beaufort did) or Yorkist malcontents who had hoped to profit under the Woodvilles.
>
> Even if MB considered the Yorkists to be usurpers (which she undoubtedly did), she would have known that her dear son had a much shakier claim than Richard's and that Henry, too, would be a usurper if he took the crown from an anointed king, which must have seemed a long shot at first. Even Henry himself indirectly acknowledged that he was a usurper when he claimed the throne by right of conquest (rather than blood or a Yorkist marriage that had not yet occurred). The difference is that he succeeded in his propaganda campaign to blacken Richard's name and pin the usurper label on him. It's rather like claiming that it's all right to steal a stolen crown because in doing so he was returning it to the "rightful" owner. (Richard no doubt felt much the same way about his own claim.)
>
> At any rate, though I do feel sorry for Margaret Beaufort's having to bear a child at age thirteen, my sympathy for her evaporates when I think of all the intrigue she was involved in and all the blood that was shed to fulfill her dream for a son she barely knew. If it weren't for her and Morton, Richard would have lived to fulfill *his* dream--and England (IMO) would have been better off.
>
> Carol
>
Hmm, was she that blinded by ambition that she would rather have his child die than give up a shaky (if at all) claim to the throne?! Makes you wonder about the mental stability of the woman!
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: Article on MB
When you come to think about it...MB did not seem bothered about the chance that her only son might very well lose his life in any rebellion and the battles that would surely follow....especially as HT does not seem to have been cast in warrior mould...funny that...Eileen
--- In , "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> Ishita wrote:
> >
> > Eileen, she had no scruple and as the article indicates she probably felt justified, as apparently she was the last heir to the Lancastrian line. It was a dubious claim but she being who she was might have felt the Yorkist's were the usurpers....... Just saying.
>
>
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Actually, neither Henry Tudor nor his mother was the last Lancastrian heir. Their claim was only through the originally illegitimate Beaufort line (barred from the throne by Henry IV--no male Beaufort ever presented himself as a claimant to the throne to my knowledge). Henry's father was the half-brother of Henry VI through their French mother, Catherine of Valois. There were, however, several members of European royal families with a better claim to be the Lancastrian heir than Henry Tudor since they were descended from John of Gaunt's legitimate daughters. Why anyone considered Henry Tudor's claim valid is beyond me. Most of them were either diehard Lancastrians like the Earl of Oxford who hated the House of York (for much the same reasons that Margaret Beaufort did) or Yorkist malcontents who had hoped to profit under the Woodvilles.
>
> Even if MB considered the Yorkists to be usurpers (which she undoubtedly did), she would have known that her dear son had a much shakier claim than Richard's and that Henry, too, would be a usurper if he took the crown from an anointed king, which must have seemed a long shot at first. Even Henry himself indirectly acknowledged that he was a usurper when he claimed the throne by right of conquest (rather than blood or a Yorkist marriage that had not yet occurred). The difference is that he succeeded in his propaganda campaign to blacken Richard's name and pin the usurper label on him. It's rather like claiming that it's all right to steal a stolen crown because in doing so he was returning it to the "rightful" owner. (Richard no doubt felt much the same way about his own claim.)
>
> At any rate, though I do feel sorry for Margaret Beaufort's having to bear a child at age thirteen, my sympathy for her evaporates when I think of all the intrigue she was involved in and all the blood that was shed to fulfill her dream for a son she barely knew. If it weren't for her and Morton, Richard would have lived to fulfill *his* dream--and England (IMO) would have been better off.
>
> Carol
>
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-15 15:47:48
Mary wrote:
I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Stephen responded:
> Richard II's heir-general was Edmund Mortimer (1391-1425), whose father had died in 1398. His sister Anne was the ancestress of the Yorkist and all subsequent monarchs.
Carol adds:
Mary, Hotspur was a Percy (an ancestor of Richard's Earl of Northumberland and, like him, named Henry), not a Mortimer.
Stephen, conciseness is a virtue, but sometimes a post can be *too* concise. (Smile) Just to clarify, Edmund Mortimer was the grandson of Edward III's second son, Lionel Duke of Clarence (Richard II's uncle), whose daughter (and only child) Philippa married Roger Mortimer, Earl of March. Edmund died childless. His sister, Anne, married Richard Earl of Cambridge. Their son, Richard, orphaned in childhood, became Duke of York on the death of his father's older brother. He, of course, married Cecily Neville and became the father of the future Richard III and all his brothers and sisters. I'm sure that you'll correct me if I got any details wrong. The genealogy is very complicated, but it's also very important, and many books condense it.
Carol
I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Stephen responded:
> Richard II's heir-general was Edmund Mortimer (1391-1425), whose father had died in 1398. His sister Anne was the ancestress of the Yorkist and all subsequent monarchs.
Carol adds:
Mary, Hotspur was a Percy (an ancestor of Richard's Earl of Northumberland and, like him, named Henry), not a Mortimer.
Stephen, conciseness is a virtue, but sometimes a post can be *too* concise. (Smile) Just to clarify, Edmund Mortimer was the grandson of Edward III's second son, Lionel Duke of Clarence (Richard II's uncle), whose daughter (and only child) Philippa married Roger Mortimer, Earl of March. Edmund died childless. His sister, Anne, married Richard Earl of Cambridge. Their son, Richard, orphaned in childhood, became Duke of York on the death of his father's older brother. He, of course, married Cecily Neville and became the father of the future Richard III and all his brothers and sisters. I'm sure that you'll correct me if I got any details wrong. The genealogy is very complicated, but it's also very important, and many books condense it.
Carol
Re: Article on MB
2013-01-15 16:05:35
I think Mary is referring to Hotspur's wife Elizabeth Mortimer, who would transmit a lateral Mortimer claim to her son:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Mortimer
________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2013, 15:47
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Mary wrote:
I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Stephen responded:
> Richard II's heir-general was Edmund Mortimer (1391-1425), whose father had died in 1398. His sister Anne was the ancestress of the Yorkist and all subsequent monarchs.
Carol adds:
Mary, Hotspur was a Percy (an ancestor of Richard's Earl of Northumberland and, like him, named Henry), not a Mortimer.
Stephen, conciseness is a virtue, but sometimes a post can be *too* concise. (Smile) Just to clarify, Edmund Mortimer was the grandson of Edward III's second son, Lionel Duke of Clarence (Richard II's uncle), whose daughter (and only child) Philippa married Roger Mortimer, Earl of March. Edmund died childless. His sister, Anne, married Richard Earl of Cambridge. Their son, Richard, orphaned in childhood, became Duke of York on the death of his father's older brother. He, of course, married Cecily Neville and became the father of the future Richard III and all his brothers and sisters. I'm sure that you'll correct me if I got any details wrong. The genealogy is very complicated, but it's also very important, and many books condense it.
Carol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Mortimer
________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2013, 15:47
Subject: Re: Article on MB
Mary wrote:
I think that the real heir to the throne after Richard (if he had died childless) would have been one of the Mortimers possibly Hotspur's son. I am not sure about Hotspur's son but I am sure Stephen will know.
Stephen responded:
> Richard II's heir-general was Edmund Mortimer (1391-1425), whose father had died in 1398. His sister Anne was the ancestress of the Yorkist and all subsequent monarchs.
Carol adds:
Mary, Hotspur was a Percy (an ancestor of Richard's Earl of Northumberland and, like him, named Henry), not a Mortimer.
Stephen, conciseness is a virtue, but sometimes a post can be *too* concise. (Smile) Just to clarify, Edmund Mortimer was the grandson of Edward III's second son, Lionel Duke of Clarence (Richard II's uncle), whose daughter (and only child) Philippa married Roger Mortimer, Earl of March. Edmund died childless. His sister, Anne, married Richard Earl of Cambridge. Their son, Richard, orphaned in childhood, became Duke of York on the death of his father's older brother. He, of course, married Cecily Neville and became the father of the future Richard III and all his brothers and sisters. I'm sure that you'll correct me if I got any details wrong. The genealogy is very complicated, but it's also very important, and many books condense it.
Carol
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