Richard's heralds (Was: Richard's horses)

Maire wrote:
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> Do we know who the Herald was? I've tracked down two names: More and Watkyns. Maire.

Carol responds:

Almost all sources agree that it was not a herald but Blanc Sanglier Pursuivant who was given the painful duty of leading the horse bearing his dead king, probably because he had been in Richard's service when he was still Duke of Gloucester and was known to be loyal. Possibly, however, Gloucester Herald had been killed at Bosworth so the duty was assigned to a man of lower rank. On the other hand, these sources are all late and at least somewhat hostile. You can find a bit about it in "A History of the College of Arms," a very dated book (1804), which is simultaneously grateful to Richard for founding the College yet hostile to him as a supposed tyrant. It's also quite hard to read even in .pdf format and even more so in Google Books.

At any rate, here's a quotation from a much more recent and apparently reliable source:

"In the charter of Richard III which incorporated the College of Arms, reference is made to John Writh, Garter King of Arms of the English, Thomas Holme, Clarenceux King of Arms for the southern part of England, John More, Norroy King of Arms for the northern parts, and Richard Champney, Gloucester King of Arms for Wales. Garter, Clarenceux and Norroy are the titles borne by the three Kings of Arms at the College to this day."

http://www.heraldicjewelry.com/2/post/2012/11/the-establishment-of-the-colege-of-arms.html

Presumably, this charter still exists or the website could not have paraphrased it.

It appears that Richard Champney, named here as Gloucester King of Arms, would have been Gloucester Herald before Richard became king. John More may have been Blanc Sanglier Pursuivant before his promotion to Norroy King of Arms since the name More has been associated with that office. I really don't know.

As for the name Watkyns for one of Richard's heralds, I haven't encountered it. Where did you find it, Maire?

Carol

> Carol earlier:
[big snip]
> As for the name Watkyns for one of Richard's heralds, I haven't encountered it. Where did you find it, Maire?

Carol again:

I found the following reference to a Richard Watkins in "A History of the College of Arms":

"Richard Watkins, esq. Attainted with John Howard, Duke of Norfolk, and others, in 1485, as partizans [sic] of this Sovereign [Richard III]. He is called [in the attainder?] 'Herrault at Armes.' I presume he was a regal, not a ducal one." (p. 68)

In other words, the author assumes that this herald was Richard's, not Norfolk's. But exactly which office he held is unclear. He doesn't seem to be the pursuivant (Blanc Sanglier) who was forced to lead the dead Richard's horse.

Carol

Carol: you know, I follow so many leads that I sometimes lose track of where I get information. That appears to be the case with Mr. Watkyns! Has any of the novel writers picked out a candidate? Maire.

--- In , "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> > Carol earlier:
> [big snip]
> > As for the name Watkyns for one of Richard's heralds, I haven't encountered it. Where did you find it, Maire?
>
> Carol again:
>
> I found the following reference to a Richard Watkins in "A History of the College of Arms":
>
> "Richard Watkins, esq. Attainted with John Howard, Duke of Norfolk, and others, in 1485, as partizans [sic] of this Sovereign [Richard III]. He is called [in the attainder?] 'Herrault at Armes.' I presume he was a regal, not a ducal one." (p. 68)
>
> In other words, the author assumes that this herald was Richard's, not Norfolk's. But exactly which office he held is unclear. He doesn't seem to be the pursuivant (Blanc Sanglier) who was forced to lead the dead Richard's horse.
>
> Carol
>