15th-Century Mourning Traditions
15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 21:02:15
Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
~Weds
Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
~Weds
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 21:10:32
Wed
You may find this of interest
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/
This is the medieval reference library at The University of Michigan just give it some context and you should find something useful
George
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 25, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
You may find this of interest
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/
This is the medieval reference library at The University of Michigan just give it some context and you should find something useful
George
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 25, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 21:55:49
Great questions....
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...<mailto:wednesday.mac@...>> wrote:
Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
~Weds
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...<mailto:wednesday.mac@...>> wrote:
Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
~Weds
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 21:56:52
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 22:05:33
Wednesday
I also have this reference site that combines many sources
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/medieval/references.php
Hope you find this useful
George
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 25, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
I also have this reference site that combines many sources
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/medieval/references.php
Hope you find this useful
George
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 25, 2013, at 4:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...> wrote:
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 22:16:20
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 22:22:18
Good for Richard II!!
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:16 PM, Jacqueline Harvey <jacqharvey@...> wrote:
>
> I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
> So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
> Jacq
>
> To:
> From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
> Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
>
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> If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
>
>> Great questions....
>
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
>
>> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
>
>> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
>
>> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
>
>> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
>
>> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
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>
>>
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> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 25, 2013, at 5:16 PM, Jacqueline Harvey <jacqharvey@...> wrote:
>
> I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
> So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
> Jacq
>
> To:
> From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
> Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
>
>> Great questions....
>
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
>
>> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
>
>> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
>
>> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
>
>> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
>
>> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
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> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 22:25:12
Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only.
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 21:56
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 21:56
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 22:27:04
Where did you read that? I've never heard it before. I know I shouldn't laugh but I have this great image of Richard whacking him for being so disrespectful.
________________________________
From: Jacqueline Harvey <jacqharvey@...>
To: Richard III forum <>
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 22:16
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: Jacqueline Harvey <jacqharvey@...>
To: Richard III forum <>
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 22:16
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 22:40:24
I love the Richard II/Henry IV period and this incident is mentioned in most of the books on the subject as it's such a great moment (one of many).
If you want to get a good overview of the period I highly recommend The Fears of Henry IV by Ian Mortimer where this is mentioned. Alison Weir's Katherine Swynford (not a novel) is a good introduction to this time, too.
Jacq
To:
From: ferrymansdaughter@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:27:03 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
Where did you read that? I've never heard it before. I know I shouldn't laugh but I have this great image of Richard whacking him for being so disrespectful.
________________________________
From: Jacqueline Harvey jacqharvey@...>
To: Richard III forum >
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 22:16
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
If you want to get a good overview of the period I highly recommend The Fears of Henry IV by Ian Mortimer where this is mentioned. Alison Weir's Katherine Swynford (not a novel) is a good introduction to this time, too.
Jacq
To:
From: ferrymansdaughter@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:27:03 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
Where did you read that? I've never heard it before. I know I shouldn't laugh but I have this great image of Richard whacking him for being so disrespectful.
________________________________
From: Jacqueline Harvey jacqharvey@...>
To: Richard III forum >
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 22:16
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 23:12:54
Yes...that's correct...so it must have been changed further down the line...Also HT had to watch EoY coronation out of sight...behind a screen or something....rather bizarre really...Eileen
--- In , Jacqueline Harvey wrote:
>
>
> I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
> So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
> Jacq
>
> To:
> From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
> Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
>
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> If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
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>
> --- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Great questions....
>
> >
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> >
>
> > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> >
>
> > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> >
>
> > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> >
>
> > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> >
>
> > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
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> > ~Weds
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--- In , Jacqueline Harvey wrote:
>
>
> I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
> So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
> Jacq
>
> To:
> From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
> Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
>
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> If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Great questions....
>
> >
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> >
>
> > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
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> >
>
> > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
>
> >
>
> > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> >
>
> > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
>
> >
>
> > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> >
>
> > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> >
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> > ~Weds
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Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 23:16:18
That's strange Liz...It must have been tough not to be allowed to attend a loved one's funeral...Eileen
--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only.Â
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 21:56
> Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
>
> Â
> If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Pamela Bain wrote:
> >
> > Great questions....
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
> >
> > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
> >
> > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
> >
> > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
> >
> > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only.Â
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 21:56
> Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
>
> Â
> If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Pamela Bain wrote:
> >
> > Great questions....
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
> >
> > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
> >
> > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
> >
> > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
> >
> > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 23:25:32
For that time period and heaving with delightfully readable information, I
would also recommend Brian Wainwright's WITHIN THE FETERLOCK (the life of
Constance of York) - fictional in the sense of story-telling, but as
brilliantly researched as any non-fiction.
Barbara
-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Jacqueline
Harvey
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 9:40 AM
To: Richard III forum
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I love the Richard II/Henry IV period and this incident is mentioned in most
of the books on the subject as it's such a great moment (one of many).
If you want to get a good overview of the period I highly recommend The
Fears of Henry IV by Ian Mortimer where this is mentioned. Alison Weir's
Katherine Swynford (not a novel) is a good introduction to this time, too.
Jacq
To:
From: ferrymansdaughter@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:27:03 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
Where did you read that? I've never heard it before. I know I
shouldn't laugh but I have this great image of Richard whacking him for
being so disrespectful.
________________________________
From: Jacqueline Harvey jacqharvey@...>
To: Richard III forum >
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 22:16
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he
got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and
tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and
whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be
stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century
mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are
sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps
to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear
black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his
son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's
back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access
to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing
that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
would also recommend Brian Wainwright's WITHIN THE FETERLOCK (the life of
Constance of York) - fictional in the sense of story-telling, but as
brilliantly researched as any non-fiction.
Barbara
-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Jacqueline
Harvey
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 9:40 AM
To: Richard III forum
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I love the Richard II/Henry IV period and this incident is mentioned in most
of the books on the subject as it's such a great moment (one of many).
If you want to get a good overview of the period I highly recommend The
Fears of Henry IV by Ian Mortimer where this is mentioned. Alison Weir's
Katherine Swynford (not a novel) is a good introduction to this time, too.
Jacq
To:
From: ferrymansdaughter@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:27:03 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
Where did you read that? I've never heard it before. I know I
shouldn't laugh but I have this great image of Richard whacking him for
being so disrespectful.
________________________________
From: Jacqueline Harvey jacqharvey@...>
To: Richard III forum >
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 22:16
Subject: RE: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he
got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and
tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and
whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be
stopped while the abbey was purified again.
So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
Jacq
To:
From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
--- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
>
> Great questions....
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
>
>
>
> Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century
mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are
sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps
to Victorian times.
>
> Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear
black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his
son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
>
> Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's
back to normal life we go"?
>
> Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
>
> My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access
to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing
that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
>
> ~Weds
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-25 23:56:03
Was our Richard present at Anne's funeral? Is there any truth about him shutting himself in a room for three days after her death?
To digress a bit, we know Cicely did not go to R III 's coronation.... Or was she hiding behind a screen to watch it? She did not go to E4's funeral either, right?
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:12 PM, "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
> Yes...that's correct...so it must have been changed further down the line...Also HT had to watch EoY coronation out of sight...behind a screen or something....rather bizarre really...Eileen
>
> --- In , Jacqueline Harvey wrote:
> >
> >
> > I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
> > So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
> > Jacq
> >
> > To:
> > From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
> > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
> > Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
> >
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> > If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Great questions....
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ~Weds
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To digress a bit, we know Cicely did not go to R III 's coronation.... Or was she hiding behind a screen to watch it? She did not go to E4's funeral either, right?
Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
On Jan 25, 2013, at 6:12 PM, "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:
> Yes...that's correct...so it must have been changed further down the line...Also HT had to watch EoY coronation out of sight...behind a screen or something....rather bizarre really...Eileen
>
> --- In , Jacqueline Harvey wrote:
> >
> >
> > I know that Richard II went to his wife's funeral at Westminster Abbey as he got into a fight with Earl Arundel (who'd arrived late for the funeral and tried to leave before it finished). Richard II grabbed a metal rod and whacked Arundel over the head with it, so that the queen's funeral had to be stopped while the abbey was purified again.
> > So back in the late 14th century at least, kings did go to funerals.
> > Jacq
> >
> > To:
> > From: cherryripe.eileenb@...
> > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 21:56:51 +0000
> > Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
> >
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> > If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Pamela Bain wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Great questions....
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > >
> >
> > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > ~Weds
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Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-26 06:56:05
"Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as
late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only."
And as late as the early 60s in the English midlands. When my (male) cousin died aged 19 I was the only female to attend his funeral. It was looked at a bit askance by the women of the family. Their job was to stay at home and look after his mother. I think it was a matter of preserving dignity, not breaking down in public.
In medieval times it was important to arrange a Mass for the deceased's Month's Mind and Year's Mind, and, if you were rich, lots of Masses. Year's Mind is still kept by some, though you don't pay for Masses nowadays!
late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only."
And as late as the early 60s in the English midlands. When my (male) cousin died aged 19 I was the only female to attend his funeral. It was looked at a bit askance by the women of the family. Their job was to stay at home and look after his mother. I think it was a matter of preserving dignity, not breaking down in public.
In medieval times it was important to arrange a Mass for the deceased's Month's Mind and Year's Mind, and, if you were rich, lots of Masses. Year's Mind is still kept by some, though you don't pay for Masses nowadays!
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-26 12:04:43
Wednesday: I do remember reading that Richard was in black when he rode towards London after the death of the King. If that's any help! Maire.
--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> That's strange Liz...It must have been tough not to be allowed to attend a loved one's funeral...Eileen
>
> --- In , liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only.Â
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 21:56
> > Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
> >
> > Â
> > If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Pamela Bain wrote:
> > >
> > > Great questions....
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
> > >
> > > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
> > >
> > > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
> > >
> > > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
> > >
> > > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
> > >
> > > ~Weds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> That's strange Liz...It must have been tough not to be allowed to attend a loved one's funeral...Eileen
>
> --- In , liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only.Â
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, 25 January 2013, 21:56
> > Subject: Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
> >
> > Â
> > If I recall kings were not allowed to go the funerals...Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Pamela Bain wrote:
> > >
> > > Great questions....
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jan 25, 2013, at 3:02 PM, "wednesday_mc" > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Could someone recommend sources (online or otherwise) for 15th-century mourning traditions that include royalty/nobility? All I can find online are sparse little, "they wore white," references to European mourning and jumps to Victorian times.
> > >
> > > Did Richard -- did any royal or noble -- mourn officially? Did they wear black or white for a specific time, or would Richard have remembered his son/wife in other ways beyond their funerals?
> > >
> > > Did anyone mourn officially, or was it "Heigh-ho, the funeral's over, it's back to normal life we go"?
> > >
> > > Was mourning different in England than in Europe?
> > >
> > > My lame little "Life in Medieval Times" books offer nothing. I need access to a good university library, and the closest is 100 miles away. Failing that, I need six months in London and access to the Reading Room.
> > >
> > > ~Weds
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: 15th-Century Mourning Traditions
2013-01-26 15:35:42
At least in Texas and Louisiana you can pay for a Month's and a Year's work of masses.
On Jan 26, 2013, at 12:56 AM, "P BARRETT" <favefauve@...<mailto:favefauve@...>> wrote:
"Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as
late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only."
And as late as the early 60s in the English midlands. When my (male) cousin died aged 19 I was the only female to attend his funeral. It was looked at a bit askance by the women of the family. Their job was to stay at home and look after his mother. I think it was a matter of preserving dignity, not breaking down in public.
In medieval times it was important to arrange a Mass for the deceased's Month's Mind and Year's Mind, and, if you were rich, lots of Masses. Year's Mind is still kept by some, though you don't pay for Masses nowadays!
On Jan 26, 2013, at 12:56 AM, "P BARRETT" <favefauve@...<mailto:favefauve@...>> wrote:
"Did women go? I know that at one time it was a male preserve. Even as
late as the very early 50s in riural Wales when my Dad's father died, it was men only."
And as late as the early 60s in the English midlands. When my (male) cousin died aged 19 I was the only female to attend his funeral. It was looked at a bit askance by the women of the family. Their job was to stay at home and look after his mother. I think it was a matter of preserving dignity, not breaking down in public.
In medieval times it was important to arrange a Mass for the deceased's Month's Mind and Year's Mind, and, if you were rich, lots of Masses. Year's Mind is still kept by some, though you don't pay for Masses nowadays!
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