Fox News Report

Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.



Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
more about this great story! YAY!



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne...were you able to watch the news conference from the Leicester University website this morning...? Eileen

--- In , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>
>
>
> Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
> as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
> This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
> more about this great story! YAY!
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I took this from Richard III book of hours



Lord Jesus Christ, deign to free me, your servant King Richard, from every
tribulation, sorrow and trouble in which I am placed... hear me, in the name
of all your goodness, for which I give thanks, and for all the gifts granted
to me, because you made me from nothing and redeemed me out of your
bounteous love and pity from eternal damnation to promising eternal life.



It seemed very appropriate.



George



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Johanne
Tournier
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 12:32 PM
To:
Subject: Fox News Report





Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.

Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
more about this great story! YAY!

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@... <mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Beautiful.....Eileen

--- In , "George Butterfield" wrote:
>
> I took this from Richard III book of hours
>
>
>
> Lord Jesus Christ, deign to free me, your servant King Richard, from every
> tribulation, sorrow and trouble in which I am placed... hear me, in the name
> of all your goodness, for which I give thanks, and for all the gifts granted
> to me, because you made me from nothing and redeemed me out of your
> bounteous love and pity from eternal damnation to promising eternal life.
>
>
>
> It seemed very appropriate.
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Johanne
> Tournier
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 12:32 PM
> To:
> Subject: Fox News Report
>
>
>
>
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>
> Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
> as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
> This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
> more about this great story! YAY!
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks, George. That is a personal remembrance - heartfelt and touching
evidence of the innermost feelings of the King. I am a great believer in
prayers for the dead and think we should all be including Richard in our
thoughts and prayers that Richard will find the bliss in the hereafter of
which he was so cruelly denied during his lifetime.



Blessings,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of George
Butterfield
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:41 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Fox News Report





I took this from Richard III book of hours

Lord Jesus Christ, deign to free me, your servant King Richard, from every
tribulation, sorrow and trouble in which I am placed... hear me, in the name
of all your goodness, for which I give thanks, and for all the gifts granted
to me, because you made me from nothing and redeemed me out of your
bounteous love and pity from eternal damnation to promising eternal life.

It seemed very appropriate.

George

From:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Johanne
Tournier
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 12:32 PM
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Fox News Report

Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.

Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
more about this great story! YAY!

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@... <mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet.  Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily?  I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy.  On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.

In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed.  If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?

Hi, Eileen -



Yes, I saw some of it, I was streaming BBC News on the Web on my computer. I
had CNN on my TV, because I wanted to see how well they covered it. NOT
well. Anyway, after going first to the Univ. of Leicester website, they said
that the press conference was being shown live on the BBC News website. So I
got to it at about 6:10 am my time, and the press conference was already
under way. Then the thing keep freezing, so I had to shut it down and log
back in, at which time I had to sit through their gol' durn commercial. Oh,
well. I saw probably about half of the reports, including most of the
conclusions of the tests and some of the introductory stuff. That's why I
want to see the whole thing right from the beginning. The scientific testing
in my view, is just fascinating and after all, it is telling us more about
Richard.



I envy you all there in Britain; you get so much more on the story than we
do here - even if some of it is from idjets!



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:39 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Fox News Report





Johanne...were you able to watch the news conference from the Leicester
University website this morning...? Eileen

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>
>
>
> Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
> as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last
September.
> This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
> more about this great story! YAY!
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I dont know obviously...but I have always felt that he went down in the onslaught and the helmet was wrenched off....Just my take on it...Eileen
On 4 Feb 2013, at 18:31, Pamela Furmidge wrote:

> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet. Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily? I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy. On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
>
> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed. If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
>
>
>
>

Take your choice when it comes to helmets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Medieval_helmets
My bet would be for a full helm that may have had some sort of device on to show leadership etc.
They wore a leather jerkin sometimes with a attached hood this went under chain mail then his helmet.
If it was hit hard enough it defiantly would come off they mentioned hallibards or pole axes I am surprised that a war hammer has not been mentioned as not only was it extensively used it would certainly penetrate most armor
George

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Pamela Furmidge <pamela.furmidge@...> wrote:

> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet. Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily? I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy. On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
>
> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed. If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
>
>
>
>

Yes it is, than you George.

On Feb 4, 2013, at 12:15 PM, "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...<mailto:cherryripe.eileenb@...>> wrote:



Beautiful.....Eileen

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, "George Butterfield" wrote:
>
> I took this from Richard III book of hours
>
>
>
> Lord Jesus Christ, deign to free me, your servant King Richard, from every
> tribulation, sorrow and trouble in which I am placed... hear me, in the name
> of all your goodness, for which I give thanks, and for all the gifts granted
> to me, because you made me from nothing and redeemed me out of your
> bounteous love and pity from eternal damnation to promising eternal life.
>
>
>
> It seemed very appropriate.
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
> From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Johanne
> Tournier
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 12:32 PM
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Fox News Report
>
>
>
>
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>
> Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
> as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
> This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
> more about this great story! YAY!
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

And have so many who believe in his goodness, his ability as a King, and as a man of merit and strength.

On Feb 4, 2013, at 12:26 PM, "Johanne Tournier" <jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60@...>> wrote:



Thanks, George. That is a personal remembrance - heartfelt and touching
evidence of the innermost feelings of the King. I am a great believer in
prayers for the dead and think we should all be including Richard in our
thoughts and prayers that Richard will find the bliss in the hereafter of
which he was so cruelly denied during his lifetime.

Blessings,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@...<mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of George
Butterfield
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 1:41 PM
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: Fox News Report

I took this from Richard III book of hours

Lord Jesus Christ, deign to free me, your servant King Richard, from every
tribulation, sorrow and trouble in which I am placed... hear me, in the name
of all your goodness, for which I give thanks, and for all the gifts granted
to me, because you made me from nothing and redeemed me out of your
bounteous love and pity from eternal damnation to promising eternal life.

It seemed very appropriate.

George

From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
] On Behalf Of Johanne
Tournier
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 12:32 PM
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Fox News Report

Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.

Just saw the report on Fox News. I should be more kindly disposed to them,
as it was there that I first saw the report of the discovery last September.
This was much more extensive than CNN's coverage and they promised to do
more about this great story! YAY!

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@...<mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can I ask the heretical question - are we SURE the crown Richard wore was merely a circlet to go on a helmet and not "the crown of England" as in the ballad? If it really was a crown he could not have worn a helmet. Crazy behaviour, but is it possible? The crown was found in a hawthorn bush - no mention of it being attached to a helmet.
Just a thought.
Marie

--- In , Pamela Furmidge wrote:
>
> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet.  Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily?  I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy.  On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
>
> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed.  If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
>
>
>

What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.
--- In , mariewalsh2003 wrote:
>
> Can I ask the heretical question - are we SURE the crown Richard wore was merely a circlet to go on a helmet and not "the crown of England" as in the ballad? If it really was a crown he could not have worn a helmet. Crazy behaviour, but is it possible? The crown was found in a hawthorn bush - no mention of it being attached to a helmet.
> Just a thought.
> Marie
>
> --- In , Pamela Furmidge wrote:
> >
> > Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet.  Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily?  I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy.  On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
> >
> > In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed.  If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
> >
> >
> >
>

But a fantastic one!

On Feb 5, 2013, at 3:10 PM, "mariewalsh2003" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:



Can I ask the heretical question - are we SURE the crown Richard wore was merely a circlet to go on a helmet and not "the crown of England" as in the ballad? If it really was a crown he could not have worn a helmet. Crazy behaviour, but is it possible? The crown was found in a hawthorn bush - no mention of it being attached to a helmet.
Just a thought.
Marie

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Pamela Furmidge wrote:
>
> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet. Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily? I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy. On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
>
> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed. If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
>
>
>

I read a few of the CNN articles about this in the last few days. Unfortunately, most of the comments took this as a huge joke. I posted a few rebuttals to some of them early on. Even in my own country (Canada) where one would think there would have been a lot more interest given the Ibsen connection, many were either uninterested, or making jokes in rather poor taste. At least it made front page news on all my usual Toronto news sites.
--- In , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>

There has been plenty in the Canadian press about the discovery and
identification of Richard's body. I've been interviewed by the Hamilton
Spectator, which has printed three articles over the past two days. I was
interviewed by CBC radio for a future story on the Sunday Edition, and I've
talked to a reporter from Macleans' magazine today: they have material on
their website. There was a story in the Calgary Herald and the Times
Colonist in Victoria, BC, as well as numerous stories in the Globe and Mail,
and the Toronto Star.



You just need to know where to look!



Tracy

Burlington, Ontario, Canada



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of goldielover56
Sent: February-05-13 5:34 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Fox News Report






I read a few of the CNN articles about this in the last few days.
Unfortunately, most of the comments took this as a huge joke. I posted a few
rebuttals to some of them early on. Even in my own country (Canada) where
one would think there would have been a lot more interest given the Ibsen
connection, many were either uninterested, or making jokes in rather poor
taste. At least it made front page news on all my usual Toronto news sites.





--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>

Wow, another star in our group!

On Feb 5, 2013, at 6:03 PM, "Tracy Bryce" <tbryce@...<mailto:tbryce@...>> wrote:



There has been plenty in the Canadian press about the discovery and
identification of Richard's body. I've been interviewed by the Hamilton
Spectator, which has printed three articles over the past two days. I was
interviewed by CBC radio for a future story on the Sunday Edition, and I've
talked to a reporter from Macleans' magazine today: they have material on
their website. There was a story in the Calgary Herald and the Times
Colonist in Victoria, BC, as well as numerous stories in the Globe and Mail,
and the Toronto Star.

You just need to know where to look!

Tracy

Burlington, Ontario, Canada

From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of goldielover56
Sent: February-05-13 5:34 PM
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Fox News Report

I read a few of the CNN articles about this in the last few days.
Unfortunately, most of the comments took this as a huge joke. I posted a few
rebuttals to some of them early on. Even in my own country (Canada) where
one would think there would have been a lot more interest given the Ibsen
connection, many were either uninterested, or making jokes in rather poor
taste. At least it made front page news on all my usual Toronto news sites.

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
>

Plenty of articles alright, but I was really referring to the comments of the public in regards to those articles. There's fewer than I would have thought there would have been, and a number of them are from the "knuckle dragger" brigade. The Sun has placed the latest story in their "Weird" section, too, which doesn't help.

--- In , "Tracy Bryce" wrote:
>
> There has been plenty in the Canadian press about the discovery and
> identification of Richard's body. I've been interviewed by the Hamilton
> Spectator, which has printed three articles over the past two days. I was
> interviewed by CBC radio for a future story on the Sunday Edition, and I've
> talked to a reporter from Macleans' magazine today: they have material on
> their website. There was a story in the Calgary Herald and the Times
> Colonist in Victoria, BC, as well as numerous stories in the Globe and Mail,
> and the Toronto Star.
>
>
>
> You just need to know where to look!
>
>
>
> Tracy
>
> Burlington, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of goldielover56
> Sent: February-05-13 5:34 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Fox News Report
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I read a few of the CNN articles about this in the last few days.
> Unfortunately, most of the comments took this as a huge joke. I posted a few
> rebuttals to some of them early on. Even in my own country (Canada) where
> one would think there would have been a lot more interest given the Ibsen
> connection, many were either uninterested, or making jokes in rather poor
> taste. At least it made front page news on all my usual Toronto news sites.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In
> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> > Because of CNN pre-publicity, I was glued to CNN this morning. They barely
> > showed anything, and when they did they made some sort of joke about it.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"mairemulholland" wrote:
>
> What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.


Carol responds:

Unless the drink of water is part of the same legend that has him skipping mass, which Richard would never do. "Dickon's Well" is on the old, incorrect Bosworth site, I believe.

I don't have an opinion about Marie's speculation regarding his wearing the real crown into battle except that it seems rash, to say the least.

Carol

Apart from the simple problem of keeping a crown on a battle helm, the additional weight be it 1 to 4 lbs on the very top of a suit of armor would make the king dangerously top heavy and definitely impede his ability to fight.
Crests when worn were lightweight possibly a guilded leather, wood or paper mâché device.
The heavy duty ones that I have seen appear to be funereal and German in origin. Contrary to popular belief a suit of armor though weighing 50-60 lbs had the weight distributed over the body and was very well articulated, the last thing a knight wanted was anything that reduced his agility in battle, a knight had his squire and standard bearer as well as his horse all would be emblazoned with his distinguishing crest.
George



Sent from my iPad

On Feb 5, 2013, at 10:12 PM, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:

> "mairemulholland" wrote:
> >
> > What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Unless the drink of water is part of the same legend that has him skipping mass, which Richard would never do. "Dickon's Well" is on the old, incorrect Bosworth site, I believe.
>
> I don't have an opinion about Marie's speculation regarding his wearing the real crown into battle except that it seems rash, to say the least.
>
> Carol
>
>

i doubt he had time on his charge towards Tudor to suddenly stop for a beverage! Another legend. The Crown of England weighs a ton so it most definitely would not be worn on his helmet. There are however theories of a crown wearing as he addressed his army before, which probably would have between the big one.
Paul


Richard Liveth Yet!




On 5 Feb 2013, at 21:18, mairemulholland wrote:

> What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.
> --- In , mariewalsh2003 wrote:
>>
>> Can I ask the heretical question - are we SURE the crown Richard wore was merely a circlet to go on a helmet and not "the crown of England" as in the ballad? If it really was a crown he could not have worn a helmet. Crazy behaviour, but is it possible? The crown was found in a hawthorn bush - no mention of it being attached to a helmet.
>> Just a thought.
>> Marie
>>
>> --- In , Pamela Furmidge wrote:
>>>
>>> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet. Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily? I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy. On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
>>>
>>> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed. If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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My take on which crown he wore into battle is this: if they were as careful with the Great Seal as we know them to have been, there would be no way they would put a treasure like the state crown at risk. Everything I've seen describes Richard's Bosworth crown as "a circlet specifically constructed to fit on a battle helmet." (Let's hope it didn't fit on Henry's and slid over his head.)

--- In , George Butterfield wrote:
>
> Apart from the simple problem of keeping a crown on a battle helm, the additional weight be it 1 to 4 lbs on the very top of a suit of armor would make the king dangerously top heavy and definitely impede his ability to fight.
> Crests when worn were lightweight possibly a guilded leather, wood or paper mâché device.
> The heavy duty ones that I have seen appear to be funereal and German in origin. Contrary to popular belief a suit of armor though weighing 50-60 lbs had the weight distributed over the body and was very well articulated, the last thing a knight wanted was anything that reduced his agility in battle, a knight had his squire and standard bearer as well as his horse all would be emblazoned with his distinguishing crest.
> George
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> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 5, 2013, at 10:12 PM, "justcarol67" wrote:
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> > "mairemulholland" wrote:
> > >
> > > What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.
> >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > Unless the drink of water is part of the same legend that has him skipping mass, which Richard would never do. "Dickon's Well" is on the old, incorrect Bosworth site, I believe.
> >
> > I don't have an opinion about Marie's speculation regarding his wearing the real crown into battle except that it seems rash, to say the least.
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
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>

Wasn't Edmund, Duke of York suffocated by his armour after falling from his horse at Agincourt? Presumably, armour was modified in the intervening years.

--- In , George Butterfield wrote:
>
> Apart from the simple problem of keeping a crown on a battle helm, the additional weight be it 1 to 4 lbs on the very top of a suit of armor would make the king dangerously top heavy and definitely impede his ability to fight.
> Crests when worn were lightweight possibly a guilded leather, wood or paper mâché device.
> The heavy duty ones that I have seen appear to be funereal and German in origin. Contrary to popular belief a suit of armor though weighing 50-60 lbs had the weight distributed over the body and was very well articulated, the last thing a knight wanted was anything that reduced his agility in battle, a knight had his squire and standard bearer as well as his horse all would be emblazoned with his distinguishing crest.
> George
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> >
> >
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>

I'm not saying he stopped for a RC Cola, lol! Just a little drink of water. It's one of the myths I like. Maire.

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> i doubt he had time on his charge towards Tudor to suddenly stop for a beverage! Another legend. The Crown of England weighs a ton so it most definitely would not be worn on his helmet. There are however theories of a crown wearing as he addressed his army before, which probably would have between the big one.
> Paul
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> Richard Liveth Yet!
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>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 21:18, mairemulholland wrote:
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> > What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.
> > --- In , mariewalsh2003 wrote:
> >>
> >> Can I ask the heretical question - are we SURE the crown Richard wore was merely a circlet to go on a helmet and not "the crown of England" as in the ballad? If it really was a crown he could not have worn a helmet. Crazy behaviour, but is it possible? The crown was found in a hawthorn bush - no mention of it being attached to a helmet.
> >> Just a thought.
> >> Marie
> >>
> >> --- In , Pamela Furmidge wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet. Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily? I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy. On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
> >>>
> >>> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed. If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
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> > ------------------------------------
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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Yes,I am not suggesting for a moment it would have been St Edward's crown - the coronation crown. There were others - or at least one other - worn for several hours at a time on big court occasions.
Marie

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> i doubt he had time on his charge towards Tudor to suddenly stop for a beverage! Another legend. The Crown of England weighs a ton so it most definitely would not be worn on his helmet. There are however theories of a crown wearing as he addressed his army before, which probably would have between the big one.
> Paul
>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 21:18, mairemulholland wrote:
>
> > What a fascinating theory! Remember, he did stop for a drink of water. He would have had to remove his helmet...or was he wearing one? Maire.
> > --- In , mariewalsh2003 wrote:
> >>
> >> Can I ask the heretical question - are we SURE the crown Richard wore was merely a circlet to go on a helmet and not "the crown of England" as in the ballad? If it really was a crown he could not have worn a helmet. Crazy behaviour, but is it possible? The crown was found in a hawthorn bush - no mention of it being attached to a helmet.
> >> Just a thought.
> >> Marie
> >>
> >> --- In , Pamela Furmidge wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Given the extent of Richard's head injuries, it is obvious he had lost his helmet. Does anyone know if a war helmet of this period would come loose easily? I can imagine that there might be times when a knight would need to take it off quickly, and struggling with straps etc in the middle of a battle might not be that easy. On the other hand, it was important protection and would need to stay put.
> >>>
> >>> In Richard's case, there seems to be some agreement that at some point he was unhorsed. If his horse was killed under him and he was thrown, would the helmet simply have come off?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>