Review of Channel 4 documentary

Here's a link to a review of the Channel 4 documentary that may be of interest to those who didn't see it. Those who did can tell us whether it's fair and accurate or not:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9848456/Richard-III-the-King-in-the-Car-Park-Channel-4-review.html

carol

For those of you in the USA I am trying to get a copy of everything from the
UK



George



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of justcarol67
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 9:08 PM
To:
Subject: Review of Channel 4 documentary





Here's a link to a review of the Channel 4 documentary that may be of
interest to those who didn't see it. Those who did can tell us whether it's
fair and accurate or not:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9848456/Richard-III-the-King-i
n-the-Car-Park-Channel-4-review.html

carol

A very fair review.  It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail.  Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it.  Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.

Minor gripes are the fact that the scoliosis / kyphosis distinction was only fleetingly addressed (that may have been a casualty of the edit, which presumably down to the wire) and touching upon the issue of the princes without having time to pay proper attention to it.  I can forgive the latter, though, because not mentioning it at all would have seemed odd in the extreme to most viewers.

I was hugely impressed by the level of access that the film crew had to the excavation.  A very telling moment, which I'm glad they included, was Jo Appleby's genuine discomfiture at Philippa Langley's wish to drape the Plantagenet royal arms over the box of remains.  In her view, it was inappropriate while the identification was still uncertain, although she ultimately acquiesced.  That underlined the academic independence of the superb team at Leicester and, for me at least, was a perfect rebuff to some cynical claims that they were too hand-in-glove with the Richard III Society.

Jonathan




________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 2:07
Subject: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 
Here's a link to a review of the Channel 4 documentary that may be of interest to those who didn't see it. Those who did can tell us whether it's fair and accurate or not:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/9848456/Richard-III-the-King-in-the-Car-Park-Channel-4-review.html

carol

Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review.  It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail.  Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it.  Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.

Carol

Carol

I haven't seen the Channel 4 documentary either, but this does seem to be a
fair representation of the reactions of 'neutrals' who have seen it. I don't
know Philippa Langley at all, but I'm aware of her huge contribution to the
project as a whole. That seems to have been overshadowed, though, by what
I'm seeing described as an over-emotional and even 'unhinged' performance.
(Not my words or my sentiments, before anyone decides to chastise me for
this.)

Karen
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
Reply-To: <>
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:50:24 -0000
To: <>
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary






Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a decent
narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why Annette
Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly
objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as
much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might
have been preferred.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the
documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why
Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more
scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't
want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe
this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that
she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather
than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.

Carol

From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 15:50
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


"Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen
the documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know
why Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a
more scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III
Society. I don't want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and
persistence we owe this whole project and to whom I'm eternally
grateful, but I'm afraid that she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather than a group devoted to scholarly
research on Richard and his times."

I think she may have been let down by the edit - not deliberately so, but she's expressive and passionate and I can see why the director would wish to use that footage.  Objectively, there was perhaps too much of it, but it provided a secondary narrative of real emotional investment to counter-balance what they perhaps feared might seem a "dry" scientific investigation.

It would have been good to see Annette alongside Tony Pollard - not that he was an "anti", as such.  In fact, didn't he say that, in Richard's shoes, *he* would probably have got rid of the princes?  But, as I implied earlier, that whole topic is worthy of a programme by itself and, with or without Annette, the documentary we got could only pay lip-service to the question.

Jonathan




________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 15:50
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 
Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review.  It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail.  Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it.  Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.

Carol

If it's lost us some fans it's also gained us some - Brits can also love a 'passionate' person whose tenancity shines through. At one stage it did feel it was developing into the PL show, and there was obviously a bit of tension between her and the 'bone' expert who was,as one would expect, completely scientifically objective. You could see JAH have the odd aside smile.
 
On another bit of it folks, which Bosworth Field were they at? Looked like the 'old' one. Bit odd that.   


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:01
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

Carol

I haven't seen the Channel 4 documentary either, but this does seem to be a
fair representation of the reactions of 'neutrals' who have seen it. I don't
know Philippa Langley at all, but I'm aware of her huge contribution to the
project as a whole. That seems to have been overshadowed, though, by what
I'm seeing described as an over-emotional and even 'unhinged' performance.
(Not my words or my sentiments, before anyone decides to chastise me for
this.)

Karen
From: justcarol67 justcarol67@...>
Reply-To: >
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:50:24 -0000
To: >
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a decent
narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why Annette
Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly
objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as
much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might
have been preferred.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the
documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why
Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more
scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't
want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe
this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that
she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather
than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.

Carol

Yay! George, what kind of treats do you like that can be sent through the mail? (Chocolate...flowers...Glenfiddich....)

~Weds


--- In , "George Butterfield" wrote:
>
> For those of you in the USA I am trying to get a copy of everything from the
> UK

I'm thinking the team didn't have time to let an orthopedic specialist or two examine Richard. I'm thinking they wanted to limit the first documentary to the discovery of the bones and proof of his identity.

I'm really hoping the team lets an orthopedic specialist or two examine him over the next year and we get a follow-up story (complete with detailed written medical exam/analysis), so eventually we'll know exactly what we're seeing.

I like that they've made it Philippa's story as much as Richard's. Some may think her reaction is over the top, but to me it illustrates just how deeply this man can affect some of his supporters -- to the point that Philippa was willing to set aside much of what the Age of Reason brought in and go with her instincts/feelings to ultimately help discover something "the experts" considered an impossibility. Yes, she's emotionally involved with Richard. All of us are, or we wouldn't be here. (Come to that, even those who are against him, right down to the Tudors as well as present-day Starkeys, are emotionally involved with him, aren't they?) That she's found the courage to put it out there and channel it into something tangible and creative in the extreme amazes me.

I can't wait to see the documentary.

~Weds

--- In , Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review.  It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail.  Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it.  Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.
>
> Minor gripes are the fact that the scoliosis / kyphosis distinction was only fleetingly addressed (that may have been a casualty of the edit, which presumably down to the wire) and touching upon the issue of the princes without having time to pay proper attention to it.  I can forgive the latter, though, because not mentioning it at all would have seemed odd in the extreme to most viewers.
>
> I was hugely impressed by the level of access that the film crew had to the excavation.  A very telling moment, which I'm glad they included, was Jo Appleby's genuine discomfiture at Philippa Langley's wish to drape the Plantagenet royal arms over the box of remains.  In her view, it was inappropriate while the identification was still uncertain, although she ultimately acquiesced.  That underlined the academic independence of the superb team at Leicester and, for me at least, was a perfect rebuff to some cynical claims that they were too hand-in-glove with the Richard III Society.
>
> Jonathan

Along with Sharon Kay Penman!!



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of wednesday_mc
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 10:44 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary



I'm thinking the team didn't have time to let an orthopedic specialist or two examine Richard. I'm thinking they wanted to limit the first documentary to the discovery of the bones and proof of his identity.

I'm really hoping the team lets an orthopedic specialist or two examine him over the next year and we get a follow-up story (complete with detailed written medical exam/analysis), so eventually we'll know exactly what we're seeing.

I like that they've made it Philippa's story as much as Richard's. Some may think her reaction is over the top, but to me it illustrates just how deeply this man can affect some of his supporters -- to the point that Philippa was willing to set aside much of what the Age of Reason brought in and go with her instincts/feelings to ultimately help discover something "the experts" considered an impossibility. Yes, she's emotionally involved with Richard. All of us are, or we wouldn't be here. (Come to that, even those who are against him, right down to the Tudors as well as present-day Starkeys, are emotionally involved with him, aren't they?) That she's found the courage to put it out there and channel it into something tangible and creative in the extreme amazes me.

I can't wait to see the documentary.

~Weds

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.
>
> Minor gripes are the fact that the scoliosis / kyphosis distinction was only fleetingly addressed (that may have been a casualty of the edit, which presumably down to the wire) and touching upon the issue of the princes without having time to pay proper attention to it. I can forgive the latter, though, because not mentioning it at all would have seemed odd in the extreme to most viewers.
>
> I was hugely impressed by the level of access that the film crew had to the excavation. A very telling moment, which I'm glad they included, was Jo Appleby's genuine discomfiture at Philippa Langley's wish to drape the Plantagenet royal arms over the box of remains. In her view, it was inappropriate while the identification was still uncertain, although she ultimately acquiesced. That underlined the academic independence of the superb team at Leicester and, for me at least, was a perfect rebuff to some cynical claims that they were too hand-in-glove with the Richard III Society.
>
> Jonathan

Sharon Penman's Facebook page had a stampede yesterday! It was so good to see hundreds of closet Ricardians marching out on our king's behalf! And most of them were young! So no more ladies of certain age criticism for Ricardians! It seems she has singlehandedly converted people into Ricardians.
She needs to be in a documentary. She would such a great contributor. Also I was happy to see so much dislike for AlisonWeir. Apparently she is very patronizing:)

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Pamela Bain <pbain@...> wrote:

> Along with Sharon Kay Penman!!
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of wednesday_mc
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 10:44 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> I'm thinking the team didn't have time to let an orthopedic specialist or two examine Richard. I'm thinking they wanted to limit the first documentary to the discovery of the bones and proof of his identity.
>
> I'm really hoping the team lets an orthopedic specialist or two examine him over the next year and we get a follow-up story (complete with detailed written medical exam/analysis), so eventually we'll know exactly what we're seeing.
>
> I like that they've made it Philippa's story as much as Richard's. Some may think her reaction is over the top, but to me it illustrates just how deeply this man can affect some of his supporters -- to the point that Philippa was willing to set aside much of what the Age of Reason brought in and go with her instincts/feelings to ultimately help discover something "the experts" considered an impossibility. Yes, she's emotionally involved with Richard. All of us are, or we wouldn't be here. (Come to that, even those who are against him, right down to the Tudors as well as present-day Starkeys, are emotionally involved with him, aren't they?) That she's found the courage to put it out there and channel it into something tangible and creative in the extreme amazes me.
>
> I can't wait to see the documentary.
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In , Jonathan Evans wrote:
> >
> > A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.
> >
> > Minor gripes are the fact that the scoliosis / kyphosis distinction was only fleetingly addressed (that may have been a casualty of the edit, which presumably down to the wire) and touching upon the issue of the princes without having time to pay proper attention to it. I can forgive the latter, though, because not mentioning it at all would have seemed odd in the extreme to most viewers.
> >
> > I was hugely impressed by the level of access that the film crew had to the excavation. A very telling moment, which I'm glad they included, was Jo Appleby's genuine discomfiture at Philippa Langley's wish to drape the Plantagenet royal arms over the box of remains. In her view, it was inappropriate while the identification was still uncertain, although she ultimately acquiesced. That underlined the academic independence of the superb team at Leicester and, for me at least, was a perfect rebuff to some cynical claims that they were too hand-in-glove with the Richard III Society.
> >
> > Jonathan
>
>
>
>

I have to agree.  A friend of mine, who has a great interest in history generally but not this period and knows almost nothing about Richard, told me that she though Philippa was over emotional and frankly, got on her nerves!   Of course they don't know the background to the dig or how Philippa so brilliantly got the money raised.
 
I think that Philippa's reaction could - and I'd say should - have been edited somewhat but the producers  no doubt thought it made better tv. 
 
However, what we all know, and the man in the street doesn't, is what a huge debt we owe to Philippa and the others involved.


________________________________
From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:01
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Carol

I haven't seen the Channel 4 documentary either, but this does seem to be a
fair representation of the reactions of 'neutrals' who have seen it. I don't
know Philippa Langley at all, but I'm aware of her huge contribution to the
project as a whole. That seems to have been overshadowed, though, by what
I'm seeing described as an over-emotional and even 'unhinged' performance.
(Not my words or my sentiments, before anyone decides to chastise me for
this.)

Karen
From: justcarol67 mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
Reply-To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:50:24 -0000
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

Jonathan Evans wrote:
>
> A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a decent
narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why Annette
Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly
objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as
much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might
have been preferred.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the
documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why
Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more
scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't
want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe
this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that
she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather
than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.

Carol

Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional. The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ý10,000 at the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable burial. Eileen
On 5 Feb 2013, at 17:19, liz williams wrote:

> I have to agree. A friend of mine, who has a great interest in history generally but not this period and knows almost nothing about Richard, told me that she though Philippa was over emotional and frankly, got on her nerves! Of course they don't know the background to the dig or how Philippa so brilliantly got the money raised.
>
> I think that Philippa's reaction could - and I'd say should - have been edited somewhat but the producers no doubt thought it made better tv.
>
> However, what we all know, and the man in the street doesn't, is what a huge debt we owe to Philippa and the others involved.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karen Clark Ragged_staff@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:01
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
> Carol
>
> I haven't seen the Channel 4 documentary either, but this does seem to be a
> fair representation of the reactions of 'neutrals' who have seen it. I don't
> know Philippa Langley at all, but I'm aware of her huge contribution to the
> project as a whole. That seems to have been overshadowed, though, by what
> I'm seeing described as an over-emotional and even 'unhinged' performance.
> (Not my words or my sentiments, before anyone decides to chastise me for
> this.)
>
> Karen
> From: justcarol67 mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:50:24 -0000
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Jonathan Evans wrote:
> >
> > A very fair review.ý It was visually interesting and maintained a decent
> narrative without skimping too much on detail.ý Curious as to why Annette
> Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly
> objectionable about it.ý Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as
> much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might
> have been preferred.
>
> [snip]
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the
> documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why
> Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
> intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
> publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more
> scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't
> want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe
> this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that
> she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather
> than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>

Far as I'm concerned, Ms. Langley wore out the soles of her shoes, bruised her knuckles, and ruined her eyesight peering at maps, marching across leagues of asphalt, and knocking on locked doors to get funding, so she can be as emotional as she likes in front of a camera.

Don't discount the idea that they played up the emotional component to sexy up the doc, either--it's a highly American idea that a general audience will be bored by a historical narrative. Producers of popular entertainment think the general public is a bunch of brainless dunderheads, and to be fair to them, we certainly do patronize some awfully dumb stuff.

--- In , "justcarol67" wrote:
>
> Jonathan Evans wrote:
> >
> > A very fair review.  It was visually interesting and maintained a decent narrative without skimping too much on detail.  Curious as to why Annette Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly objectionable about it.  Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might have been preferred.
>
> [snip]
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.
>
> Carol
>

Yes, and it has all come about in a far grander way than I think she could
ever have imagined. She is to be forgiven and understood if she is finding
it a bit overwhelming now. I mean, she probably always felt she was on a
"mission," having a "sense" that Richard was there underneath the car park,
waiting, and no doubt had a heap of persuading to get people to commit to
such a "harebrained scheme." More power to her, I say - we need
visionaries, too, and she has proven herself.

Actually, I've been disappointed that in the other features we haven't seen
very much of her. For instance, she was one of the speakers at the press
conference yesterday, but by the time she was speaking, they were no longer
broadcasting. Bit of a bummer, that! In fact, I'm still a little cheesed off
that I haven't been able to catch the entire press conference online. I
thought the U. of Leicester was going to stream it after it finished live,
but they didn't do that, did they?

Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
donors! LOL!

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of eileen bates
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
burial. Eileen

Please do not misquote me again. Thank you.

Karen

On 6/02/13 4:41 AM, "eileen bates" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:

>Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
>The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she
>saw a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the
>tenacity of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was
>foremost in getting the money raised especially when it looked like the
>whole thing was going belly up when someone had to back out with their
>offer of £10,000 at the last minute. She could have given up then but
>she didnt. I for one will forever be grateful for Philippa for her
>unflagging determination to find Richard, get him out of that damn car
>park and given an honourable burial. Eileen
>On 5 Feb 2013, at 17:19, liz williams wrote:
>
>> I have to agree. A friend of mine, who has a great interest in history
>>generally but not this period and knows almost nothing about Richard,
>>told me that she though Philippa was over emotional and frankly, got on
>>her nerves! Of course they don't know the background to the dig or how
>>Philippa so brilliantly got the money raised.
>>
>> I think that Philippa's reaction could - and I'd say should - have been
>>edited somewhat but the producers no doubt thought it made better tv.
>>
>> However, what we all know, and the man in the street doesn't, is what a
>>huge debt we owe to Philippa and the others involved.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Karen Clark Ragged_staff@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:01
>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> I haven't seen the Channel 4 documentary either, but this does seem to
>>be a
>> fair representation of the reactions of 'neutrals' who have seen it. I
>>don't
>> know Philippa Langley at all, but I'm aware of her huge contribution to
>>the
>> project as a whole. That seems to have been overshadowed, though, by
>>what
>> I'm seeing described as an over-emotional and even 'unhinged'
>>performance.
>> (Not my words or my sentiments, before anyone decides to chastise me for
>> this.)
>>
>> Karen
>> From: justcarol67 mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:50:24 -0000
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>
>> Jonathan Evans wrote:
>> >
>> > A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a
>>decent
>> narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why
>>Annette
>> Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything
>>particularly
>> objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made
>>it as
>> much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual
>>approach might
>> have been preferred.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Carol responds:
>>
>> Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen
>>the
>> documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why
>> Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
>> intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
>> publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a
>>more
>> scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I
>>don't
>> want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we
>>owe
>> this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid
>>that
>> she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club
>>rather
>> than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.
>>
>> Carol
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Johanne said:

"Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
along
with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
donors!"

I couldn't agree more.

Karen

Yes...definitely...

Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen



--- In , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> donors! LOL!
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> burial. Eileen
>

And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 

Yes...definitely...

Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> donors! LOL!
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> burial. Eileen
>

Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen



--- In , Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Yes...definitely...
>
> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > donors! LOL!
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > burial. Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Exactly what I was about to say! 



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Yes...definitely...
>
> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > donors! LOL!
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > burial. Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hahaha...Times like that its time to head for the Hagaan Daaz Icecream one has stashed away for such an emergency..Eileen

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Exactly what I was about to say! 
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 

Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Yes...definitely...
>
> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > donors! LOL!
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > burial. Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Alegiah(?  I can't spell it either ).  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!


________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  

________________________________
From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 

Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Yes...definitely...
>
> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > donors! LOL!
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > burial. Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Goodo! That is probably what the Tradionalists hate...Ricardians staying positive....!! :0)
Although I must say...I sense a little shifting in the sands here..At Last!..Eileen

--- In , Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Alegiah(?  I can't spell it either ).  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones
> To: ""
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
(if that’s the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
They didn’t know that the skull they were working on was Richard’s, so they
didn’t rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
image.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
. . . .

“Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
a skull thought to be Richard III.

“"The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.

“"When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."

“Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.

“The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.

“"Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson.”





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary





Yes...definitely...

Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
and hat. Eileen

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
along
> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> donors! LOL!
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of eileen
bates
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
was
> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> burial. Eileen
>

That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Alegiah(?  I can't spell it either ).  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> >
> > And the BBCà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richardà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> > à
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ã10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen

--- In , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
> (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
> They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
> didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
> apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
> using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
> know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
> for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
> image.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
> . . . .
>
> "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
> University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
> a skull thought to be Richard III.
>
> ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
> were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
>
> ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
> rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
> dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
>
> "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
> portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
> colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
>
> "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
>
> ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
> living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
> facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes...definitely...
>
> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
> was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
> and hat. Eileen
>
> --- In
> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
> along
> > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > donors! LOL!
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
>
> > [mailto:
> ] On Behalf Of eileen
> bates
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > To:
>
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
> was
> > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > burial. Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Alegiah(?  I can't spell it either ).  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >  
> > But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > And the BBC  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Yes...definitely...
> > >
> > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > donors! LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > >
> > > > Johanne
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > burial. Eileen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Maybe she was like Mary Queen of Scots to wasn't beautiful at all, not judging by the portraits I've seen, although to be fair since she didn't have wealth or great breeding to recommend her, EW must have been gorgeous.



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:00
Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)

 
I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
> (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
> They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
> didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
> apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
> using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
> know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
> for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
> image.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
> . . . .
>
> "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
> University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
> a skull thought to be Richard III.
>
> ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
> were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
>
> ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
> rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
> dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
>
> "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
> portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
> colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
>
> "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
>
> ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
> living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
> facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes...definitely...
>
> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
> was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
> and hat. Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> >
> > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
> along
> > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > donors! LOL!
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of eileen
> bates
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
> was
> > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > burial. Eileen
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
 
However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Alegiah(?à I can't spell it either ).à I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.à I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> > ButàI used to love George Alegà ......à I can't spell him (!).à Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.à I shall remain positive.àà
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> > à
> >
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > And the BBCÃ’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > >
> > > Yes...definitely...
> > >
> > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > donors! LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > >
> > > > Johanne
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > burial. Eileen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Like X Factor and all those other "reality" shows, if they weep we keep it in!
Paul


Richard Liveth Yet!




On 5 Feb 2013, at 17:19, liz williams wrote:

> I have to agree. A friend of mine, who has a great interest in history generally but not this period and knows almost nothing about Richard, told me that she though Philippa was over emotional and frankly, got on her nerves! Of course they don't know the background to the dig or how Philippa so brilliantly got the money raised.
>
> I think that Philippa's reaction could - and I'd say should - have been edited somewhat but the producers no doubt thought it made better tv.
>
> However, what we all know, and the man in the street doesn't, is what a huge debt we owe to Philippa and the others involved.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karen Clark <Ragged_staff@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:01
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
> Carol
>
> I haven't seen the Channel 4 documentary either, but this does seem to be a
> fair representation of the reactions of 'neutrals' who have seen it. I don't
> know Philippa Langley at all, but I'm aware of her huge contribution to the
> project as a whole. That seems to have been overshadowed, though, by what
> I'm seeing described as an over-emotional and even 'unhinged' performance.
> (Not my words or my sentiments, before anyone decides to chastise me for
> this.)
>
> Karen
> From: justcarol67 mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:50:24 -0000
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Jonathan Evans wrote:
>>
>> A very fair review. It was visually interesting and maintained a decent
> narrative without skimping too much on detail. Curious as to why Annette
> Carson withdrew her involvement, because I didn't find anything particularly
> objectionable about it. Maybe one issue was that the presentation made it as
> much Philippa Langley's story as Richard's and a "harder" factual approach might
> have been preferred.
>
> [snip]
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Sorry to snip so much of your excellent post, but since I haven't seen the
> documentary, I just want to agree with this one point. I don't know why
> Annette withdrew her support and participation (except to act as an
> intermediary between all the various people involved and to provide
> publicity), but I think it's unfortunate that she was not present as a more
> scholarly, less emotional representative of the Richard III Society. I don't
> want to be critical of Philippa, to whose devotion and persistence we owe
> this whole project and to whom I'm eternally grateful, but I'm afraid that
> she may have reinforced the image of the R III Society as a fan club rather
> than a group devoted to scholarly research on Richard and his times.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Could just looks hold a man....? although Edward was not faithful...by Fat Henry's standards he was bordering on uxorious. She must have had masses of personality....perhaps a way of carrying herself. At the weekend I was watching a chat show with Helen Mirren...who is probably not beautiful in the conventional sense but she knocked the spots of the other much younger woman..cant recall her name...that says it all really...Mirren completely took over the show. I thought she was totally mesmerising. I wonder if EW was something on these lines. As Annette mentions in MK...she was older than Edward and had gone through 10 pregnancies. I dont know what moistoriser she was using but it must have been damn good...Eileen

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Maybe she was like Mary Queen of Scots to wasn't beautiful at all, not judging by the portraits I've seen, although to be fair since she didn't have wealth or great breeding to recommend her, EW must have been gorgeous.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:00
> Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)
>
>  
> I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> > Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
> > (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
> > They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
> > didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
> > apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
> > using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
> > know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
> > for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
> > image.
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
> > . . . .
> >
> > "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
> > University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
> > a skull thought to be Richard III.
> >
> > ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
> > were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
> >
> > ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
> > rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
> > dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
> >
> > "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
> > portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
> > colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
> >
> > "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
> >
> > ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
> > living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
> > facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
> > was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
> > and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
> > along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of eileen
> > bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
> > was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I love these tangents. I shall go and put my head in the fridge tonight. Tomorrow is another day.



________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:27
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 

Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
 
However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him

________________________________
From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Alegiah(?à I can't spell it either ).à I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.à I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> > ButàI used to love George Alegà ......à I can't spell him (!).à Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.à I shall remain positive.àà
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> > à
> >
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > And the BBCÃ’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > >
> > > Yes...definitely...
> > >
> > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > donors! LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > >
> > > > Johanne
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > burial. Eileen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'm like that with my film script, though some in the business seem to think I'm just now jumping on the band wagon!
Anyone out there want to say how long I've been banging on about this? :-)
Paul


Richard Liveth Yet!




On 5 Feb 2013, at 18:34, EileenB wrote:

> Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones wrote:
>>
>> And the BBC 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: EileenB
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>
>>
>> Â
>>
>> Yes...definitely...
>>
>> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
>>> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
>>> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
>>> donors! LOL!
>>>
>>> Loyaulte me lie,
>>>
>>> Johanne
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>>
>>> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
>>> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
>>> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
>>> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
>>> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
>>> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
>>> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
>>> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
>>> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
>>> burial. Eileen
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
>  
> However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >  
> > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Alegiah(?  I can't spell it either ).  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >  
> > > But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And the BBCÃÆ'‚  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'‚  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > >
> > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > >
> > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Johanne
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

ALAGIAH - Sri Lankan chap with a nice smile.

----- Original Message -----
From: liz williams
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary



Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.

However, who is George Alega? I've never heard of him

________________________________
From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary



Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news! Who did you mean?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Â
> Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Alegiah(?ÃÂ I can't spell it either ).ÃÂ I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.ÃÂ I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > ÃÂ
> > ButÃÂ I used to love George AlegÃÂ ......ÃÂ I can't spell him (!).ÃÂ Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.ÃÂ I shall remain positive.ÃÂ ÃÂ
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > And the BBCÃ’â¬aà6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’â¬aà- quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > >
> > > Yes...definitely...
> > >
> > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > donors! LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > >
> > > > Johanne
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > burial. Eileen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

THATS HIM!.....I was just spelling it differently :0)

--- In , "Stephen Lark" wrote:
>
> ALAGIAH - Sri Lankan chap with a nice smile.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: liz williams
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>
> Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
>
> However, who is George Alega? I've never heard of him
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>
> Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news! Who did you mean?
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Â
> > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Alegiah(? I can't spell it either ). I read somewhere that they write their own scripts. I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > ÂÂ
> > > But I used to love George Aleg ...... I can't spell him (!). Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though. I shall remain positive. ÂÂ
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > ÂÂ
> > >
> > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And the BBCÃÆ'‚ÂÂ 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'‚ÂÂ - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
> > > >
> > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > >
> > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Johanne
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I watched it too and I can't remember who the other woman was either - oh actually I didn't know who she was in the first place.  I was too busy wondering where HM got her frock from.



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:35
Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)

 
Could just looks hold a man....? although Edward was not faithful...by Fat Henry's standards he was bordering on uxorious. She must have had masses of personality....perhaps a way of carrying herself. At the weekend I was watching a chat show with Helen Mirren...who is probably not beautiful in the conventional sense but she knocked the spots of the other much younger woman..cant recall her name...that says it all really...Mirren completely took over the show. I thought she was totally mesmerising. I wonder if EW was something on these lines. As Annette mentions in MK...she was older than Edward and had gone through 10 pregnancies. I dont know what moistoriser she was using but it must have been damn good...Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Maybe she was like Mary Queen of Scots to wasn't beautiful at all, not judging by the portraits I've seen, although to be fair since she didn't have wealth or great breeding to recommend her, EW must have been gorgeous.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:00
> Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)
>
>  
> I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> > Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
> > (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
> > They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
> > didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
> > apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
> > using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
> > know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
> > for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
> > image.
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
> > . . . .
> >
> > "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
> > University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
> > a skull thought to be Richard III.
> >
> > ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
> > were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
> >
> > ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
> > rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
> > dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
> >
> > "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
> > portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
> > colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
> >
> > "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
> >
> > ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
> > living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
> > facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
> > was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
> > and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
> > along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of eileen
> > bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
> > was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I can vouch for that Paul...You were mentioning it when I first joined this forum at least 8/9 years ago...doesnt time fly when you are enjoying yourself!!...and I can recall so was Stephen and Marie...I do so hope that one of these days you get a break...With all the news in the media about Richard I think the time is ripe...Eileen

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> I'm like that with my film script, though some in the business seem to think I'm just now jumping on the band wagon!
> Anyone out there want to say how long I've been banging on about this? :-)
> Paul
>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 18:34, EileenB wrote:
>
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Hilary Jones wrote:
> >>
> >> And the BBC 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: EileenB
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> >> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >>
> >>
> >> Â
> >>
> >> Yes...definitely...
> >>
> >> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> >>
> >> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> >>> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> >>> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> >>> donors! LOL!
> >>>
> >>> Loyaulte me lie,
> >>>
> >>> Johanne
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> >>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >>>
> >>> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> >>> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> >>> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> >>> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> >>> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> >>> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> >>> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> >>> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> >>> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> >>> burial. Eileen
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Fair enough (I don't keep it in the house or I would eat it all)  - but who is this George?  I have to know now



________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:38
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
I love these tangents. I shall go and put my head in the fridge tonight. Tomorrow is another day.

________________________________
From: liz williams mailto:ferrymansdaughter%40btinternet.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:27
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 

Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
 
However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him

________________________________
From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Alegiah(?à I can't spell it either ).à I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.à I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> > ButàI used to love George Alegà ......à I can't spell him (!).à Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.à I shall remain positive.àà
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> > à
> >
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > And the BBCÃ’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > >
> > > Yes...definitely...
> > >
> > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > donors! LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > >
> > > > Johanne
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > burial. Eileen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Years? 



________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:39
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
I'm like that with my film script, though some in the business seem to think I'm just now jumping on the band wagon!
Anyone out there want to say how long I've been banging on about this? :-)
Paul

Richard Liveth Yet!

On 5 Feb 2013, at 18:34, EileenB wrote:

> Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
>
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
>>
>> And the BBC 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of Richard - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: EileenB
>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>
>>
>> Â
>>
>> Yes...definitely...
>>
>> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
>>> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
>>> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
>>> donors! LOL!
>>>
>>> Loyaulte me lie,
>>>
>>> Johanne
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>>
>>> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
>>> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
>>> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
>>> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
>>> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
>>> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
>>> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
>>> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
>>> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
>>> burial. Eileen
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
 


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
>  
> However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!à Who did you mean?
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Alegiah(?Ã’â¬aà I can't spell it either ).Ã’â¬aà I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.Ã’â¬aà I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > > ButÃ’â¬aàI used to love George AlegÃ’â¬aà ......Ã’â¬aà I can't spell him (!).Ã’â¬aà Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.Ã’â¬aà I shall remain positive.Ã’â¬aàÒâ¬aà
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > >
> > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And the BBCÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > >
> > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Johanne
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
>  
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> >  
> > However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >  
> >
> > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >  
> > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alegiah(?ÃÆ'‚  I can't spell it either ).ÃÆ'‚  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.ÃÆ'‚  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > ButÃÆ'‚ I used to love George AlegÃÆ'‚  ......ÃÆ'‚  I can't spell him (!).ÃÆ'‚  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.ÃÆ'‚  I shall remain positive.ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > >
> > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And the BBCÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > >
> > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

God we are confused.  That's who I meant.



________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:48
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
THATS HIM!.....I was just spelling it differently :0)

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Lark" wrote:
>
> ALAGIAH - Sri Lankan chap with a nice smile.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: liz williams
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>
> Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
>
> However, who is George Alega? I've never heard of him
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>
> Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!Ã Who did you mean?
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > Ã
> > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Alegiah(?Ã’â¬aà I can't spell it either ).Ã’â¬aà I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.Ã’â¬aà I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
> > > ButÃ’â¬aà I used to love George AlegÃ’â¬aà ......Ã’â¬aà I can't spell him (!).Ã’â¬aà Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.Ã’â¬aà I shall remain positive.Ã’â¬aà Òâ¬aÃ
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃ
> > >
> > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And the BBCÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aÃ
> > > >
> > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > >
> > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Johanne
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Who am I...Where am I? .....:0[

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> God we are confused.  That's who I meant.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:48
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> THATS HIM!.....I was just spelling it differently :0)
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Lark" wrote:
> >
> > ALAGIAH - Sri Lankan chap with a nice smile.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: liz williams
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >
> > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> >
> > However, who is George Alega? I've never heard of him
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >
> > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news! Who did you mean?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Â
> > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alegiah(?ÃÆ'‚Â I can't spell it either ).ÃÆ'‚Â I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.ÃÆ'‚Â I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > > > ButÃÆ'‚Â I used to love George AlegÃÆ'‚Â ......ÃÆ'‚Â I can't spell him (!).ÃÆ'‚Â Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.ÃÆ'‚Â I shall remain positive.ÃÆ'‚Â ÃÆ'‚Â
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚Â
> > > >
> > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And the BBCÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚Â
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > >
> > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Oh, I adore Helen Mirren, and I think the most beautiful women in the world are those who have a more unconventional beauty rather than the standard gorgeous. Those women development charisma and intellect. The really just beautiful women I know, are for the most part, not all that interesting. They may have fine minds, but have not had to depend on personality, wit, charm and all the other attributes. And that dewy perfection lasts for such a short time, while a fine woman, like Helen, ages well, and works with what she has.
I was a college English Major, adored Shakespeare, but had an amazing Chaucer class, and an even more amazing Western Civilization Class, both, and both professors asking us to learn more, and made us learn about the dynasties who ruled England. My lord, it was a fight, not only with the other "world powers", but within the families. It made me dizzy, the duplicity, the schemes, the in-laws and out-laws of the ones who wanted more. Whew....... At any rate, perhaps it was my York great great-grandmother who made me start reading about them, and Richard was my favorite, because he was so young, and I thought, so badly maligned when he was doing his best under unimaginable difficulty. I found the Tudors to be grasping and not very likeable. And good Lord, I would have hated being Liz I, am I a daughter or a bastard child, will I live or die, and who in the hell can I or do I want to marry?
Off topic, grab your ice cream, bevvy of choice or a tranquilizer....sorry for the meandering.



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:36 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)



Could just looks hold a man....? although Edward was not faithful...by Fat Henry's standards he was bordering on uxorious. She must have had masses of personality....perhaps a way of carrying herself. At the weekend I was watching a chat show with Helen Mirren...who is probably not beautiful in the conventional sense but she knocked the spots of the other much younger woman..cant recall her name...that says it all really...Mirren completely took over the show. I thought she was totally mesmerising. I wonder if EW was something on these lines. As Annette mentions in MK...she was older than Edward and had gone through 10 pregnancies. I dont know what moistoriser she was using but it must have been damn good...Eileen

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, liz williams wrote:
>
> Maybe she was like Mary Queen of Scots to wasn't beautiful at all, not judging by the portraits I've seen, although to be fair since she didn't have wealth or great breeding to recommend her, EW must have been gorgeous.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:00
> Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)
>
> Â
> I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> > Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
> > (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
> > They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
> > didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
> > apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
> > using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
> > know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
> > for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
> > image.
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
> > . . . .
> >
> > "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
> > University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
> > a skull thought to be Richard III.
> >
> > ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
> > were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
> >
> > ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
> > rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
> > dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
> >
> > "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
> > portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
> > colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
> >
> > "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
> >
> > ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
> > living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
> > facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
> > was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
> > and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
> > along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of eileen
> > bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
> > was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Actually I AM cross.  I just had a look at Dan Jones' Twitter  feed (I'm not on Twitter but you can search anyway).  He made a comment about how many "Ricardian nutters" he is going to have to see on the tv now and in a CNN piece called Richard "spindly and warped".  He really is a Starkey chip off the old block isn't he?  It's too late for me to send his book back now unfortunately (The Plantaganets.  I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
 
I'd rather be a Ricardian nutter than a Tudor apologist.


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:54
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
>  
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> > à
> > However, who is George Alega?à I've never heard of him
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> >
> > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!Ã’â¬aà Who did you mean?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alegiah(?Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I can't spell it either ).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > > ButÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI used to love George AlegÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà ......Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I can't spell him (!).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I shall remain positive.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And the BBCÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > >
> > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Actually I AM cross.  I just had a look at Dan Jones' Twitter  feed (I'm not on Twitter but you can search anyway).  He made a comment about how many "Ricardian nutters" he is going to have to see on the tv now and in a CNN piece called Richard "spindly and warped".  He really is a Starkey chip off the old block isn't he?  It's too late for me to send his book back now unfortunately (The Plantaganets.  I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
 
I'd rather be a Ricardian nutter than a Tudor apologist.


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:54
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
>  
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> > à
> > However, who is George Alega?à I've never heard of him
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> >
> > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!Ã’â¬aà Who did you mean?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alegiah(?Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I can't spell it either ).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > > ButÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI used to love George AlegÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà ......Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I can't spell him (!).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I shall remain positive.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And the BBCÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > >
> > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

MSN on the Internet Site has Richard III, in its top stories!


From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of liz williams
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:36 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary



Actually I AM cross. I just had a look at Dan Jones' Twitter feed (I'm not on Twitter but you can search anyway). He made a comment about how many "Ricardian nutters" he is going to have to see on the tv now and in a CNN piece called Richard "spindly and warped". He really is a Starkey chip off the old block isn't he? It's too late for me to send his book back now unfortunately (The Plantaganets. I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.

I'd rather be a Ricardian nutter than a Tudor apologist.

________________________________
From: EileenB cherryripe.eileenb@...<mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:54
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it. Now we really are as cross purposes!Â
> Â
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
> Â
>
> I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> > ÃÂ
> > However, who is George Alega?ÃÂ I've never heard of him
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > ÃÂ
> >
> > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!Ã’â¬aàWho did you mean?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alegiah(?Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI can't spell it either ).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI read somewhere that they write their own scripts.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > > ButÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI used to love George AlegÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà......Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI can't spell him (!).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàNot his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI shall remain positive.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > >
> > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And the BBCÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà- quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aÃÂ
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > >
> > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

For Edward, while I'm sure he was attracted to EW for her looks, I've always thought the way she made him feel when he was with her (at least initially, before her family moved in) may have had more to do with her being able to keep him. Maybe she made it all about him...until it became all about her. And all the others.

~Weds

--- In , "EileenB" wrote:
>
> Could just looks hold a man....? although Edward was not faithful...by Fat Henry's standards he was bordering on uxorious. She must have had masses of personality....perhaps a way of carrying herself. At the weekend I was watching a chat show with Helen Mirren...who is probably not beautiful in the conventional sense but she knocked the spots of the other much younger woman..cant recall her name...that says it all really...Mirren completely took over the show. I thought she was totally mesmerising. I wonder if EW was something on these lines. As Annette mentions in MK...she was older than Edward and had gone through 10 pregnancies. I dont know what moistoriser she was using but it must have been damn good...Eileen

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/04/opinion/jones-richard-third/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
 
 
 
Comment away people!


________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 20:37
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Actually I AM cross.  I just had a look at Dan Jones' Twitter  feed (I'm not on Twitter but you can search anyway).  He made a comment about how many "Ricardian nutters" he is going to have to see on the tv now and in a CNN piece called Richard "spindly and warped".  He really is a Starkey chip off the old block isn't he?  It's too late for me to send his book back now unfortunately (The Plantaganets.  I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
 
I'd rather be a Ricardian nutter than a Tudor apologist.

________________________________
From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:54
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
>  
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> > à
> > However, who is George Alega?à I've never heard of him
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> >
> > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!Ã’â¬aà Who did you mean?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Alegiah(?Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I can't spell it either ).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > > ButÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàI used to love George AlegÃ’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà ......Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I can't spell him (!).Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà I shall remain positive.Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aàÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ã’Æ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > >
> > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And the BBCÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aà
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > >
> > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’Æ'à 'Ò¢ââ¬a¬Ã&¡ÒÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> >
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>

Hi Liz
What is annnoying and frustrating is that people like Dan Jones are complaining about ricardians and continuing badmouthing Richard whilst making money out of it all. It is a pity that they cannot be ostracised and sidelined but the organisations are using their services as seen yesterdsy on the BBC when he was clearly reitierating his facile point of view without actually bothering to clarify anything. It was lazy, incompetant and patronising as well as an insult to the viewers.
Elaine

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Actually I AM cross.  I just had a look at Dan Jones' Twitter  feed (I'm not on Twitter but you can search anyway).  He made a comment about how many "Ricardian nutters" he is going to have to see on the tv now and in a CNN piece called Richard "spindly and warped".  He really is a Starkey chip off the old block isn't he?  It's too late for me to send his book back now unfortunately (The Plantaganets.  I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
>  
> I'd rather be a Ricardian nutter than a Tudor apologist.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:54
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
> >  
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >  
> >
> > I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> > >  
> > > However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!ÃÆ'‚  Who did you mean?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alegiah(?ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I can't spell it either ).ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ButÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ I used to love George AlegÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  ......ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I can't spell him (!).ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I shall remain positive.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And the BBCÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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Helen played Queen Anne in an RSC production of Richard III in the early 70s, one of her first leading roles. She was considered too beautiful and too sexy for some of the other big parts at the time,can you believe? They put a huge wooden wheel round her neck as a collar for the coronation scenes!
Alan Howard played Richard in black leather, badly!
But no matter what, you just new you were watching a star when Helen was on stage!
Paul

Richard Liveth Yet!




On 5 Feb 2013, at 20:33, Pamela Bain wrote:

> Oh, I adore Helen Mirren, and I think the most beautiful women in the world are those who have a more unconventional beauty rather than the standard gorgeous. Those women development charisma and intellect. The really just beautiful women I know, are for the most part, not all that interesting. They may have fine minds, but have not had to depend on personality, wit, charm and all the other attributes. And that dewy perfection lasts for such a short time, while a fine woman, like Helen, ages well, and works with what she has.
> I was a college English Major, adored Shakespeare, but had an amazing Chaucer class, and an even more amazing Western Civilization Class, both, and both professors asking us to learn more, and made us learn about the dynasties who ruled England. My lord, it was a fight, not only with the other "world powers", but within the families. It made me dizzy, the duplicity, the schemes, the in-laws and out-laws of the ones who wanted more. Whew....... At any rate, perhaps it was my York great great-grandmother who made me start reading about them, and Richard was my favorite, because he was so young, and I thought, so badly maligned when he was doing his best under unimaginable difficulty. I found the Tudors to be grasping and not very likeable. And good Lord, I would have hated being Liz I, am I a daughter or a bastard child, will I live or die, and who in the hell can I or do I want to marry?
> Off topic, grab your ice cream, bevvy of choice or a tranquilizer....sorry for the meandering.
>
>
>
> From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of EileenB
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:36 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)
>
>
>
> Could just looks hold a man....? although Edward was not faithful...by Fat Henry's standards he was bordering on uxorious. She must have had masses of personality....perhaps a way of carrying herself. At the weekend I was watching a chat show with Helen Mirren...who is probably not beautiful in the conventional sense but she knocked the spots of the other much younger woman..cant recall her name...that says it all really...Mirren completely took over the show. I thought she was totally mesmerising. I wonder if EW was something on these lines. As Annette mentions in MK...she was older than Edward and had gone through 10 pregnancies. I dont know what moistoriser she was using but it must have been damn good...Eileen
>
> --- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, liz williams wrote:
>>
>> Maybe she was like Mary Queen of Scots to wasn't beautiful at all, not judging by the portraits I've seen, although to be fair since she didn't have wealth or great breeding to recommend her, EW must have been gorgeous.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: EileenB
>> To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:00
>> Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)
>>
>> Â
>> I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen
>>
>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>>>
>>> Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
>>> (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
>>> They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
>>> didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
>>> apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
>>> using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
>>> know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
>>> for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
>>> image.
>>>
>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
>>> . . . .
>>>
>>> "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
>>> University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
>>> a skull thought to be Richard III.
>>>
>>> ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
>>> were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
>>>
>>> ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
>>> rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
>>> dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
>>>
>>> "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
>>> portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
>>> colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
>>>
>>> "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
>>>
>>> ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
>>> living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
>>> facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> Johanne L. Tournier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Email - jltournier60@
>>>
>>> or jltournier@
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "With God, all things are possible."
>>>
>>> - Jesus of Nazareth
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes...definitely...
>>>
>>> Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
>>> was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
>>> and hat. Eileen
>>>
>>> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
>>> along
>>>> with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
>>>> scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
>>>> donors! LOL!
>>>>
>>>> Loyaulte me lie,
>>>>
>>>> Johanne
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>> [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>> ] On Behalf Of eileen
>>> bates
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
>>>> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>>>>
>>>> Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
>>>> The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
>>>> a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
>>>> of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
>>>> getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
>>> was
>>>> going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
>>>> the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
>>>> will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
>>>> find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
>>>> burial. Eileen
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Priceless....:0)

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
>  
>

Thank you.  I do my best.
 
Liz


________________________________
From: EileenB <cherryripe.eileenb@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 21:21
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
Priceless....:0)

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
>  
>

Stephen got it right. Have temporarily emerged from fridge. Shall not watch 10 o'clock news!



________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:51
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary


 

Fair enough (I don't keep it in the house or I would eat it all)  - but who is this George?  I have to know now

________________________________
From: Hilary Jones mailto:hjnatdat%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:38
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 
I love these tangents. I shall go and put my head in the fridge tonight. Tomorrow is another day.

________________________________
From: liz williams mailto:ferrymansdaughter%40btinternet.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:27
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
 
However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him

________________________________
From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary

 

Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
>
> That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Alegiah(?à I can't spell it either ).à I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.à I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones
> > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> > à
> > ButàI used to love George Alegà ......à I can't spell him (!).à Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.à I shall remain positive.àà
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> > à
> >
> > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > And the BBCÃ’â¬aà 6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃ’â¬aà - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > > Ã’â¬aà
> > >
> > > Yes...definitely...
> > >
> > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > donors! LOL!
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > >
> > > > Johanne
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of Ã’â¬aã10,000 at
> > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > burial. Eileen
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Regarding Helen Mirren, I always remember that she and Liam Neeson lived together just after he came over to London from Ireland. She was older than he and, said he with a grin, "She taught me to eat shrimp."

~Weds


--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> Helen played Queen Anne in an RSC production of Richard III in the early 70s, one of her first leading roles. She was considered too beautiful and too sexy for some of the other big parts at the time,can you believe? They put a huge wooden wheel round her neck as a collar for the coronation scenes!
> Alan Howard played Richard in black leather, badly!
> But no matter what, you just new you were watching a star when Helen was on stage!
> Paul
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!

I would say,reading that, Dan Jones has never done a days research into the Wars of the Roses in his life. Why are so called historians so lazy? Why don't they do a bit of research themselves instead of believing their University Professors who probably have not done any research either.


--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/04/opinion/jones-richard-third/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
>  
>  
>  
> Comment away people!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: liz williams
> To: ""
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 20:37
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Actually I AM cross.  I just had a look at Dan Jones' Twitter  feed (I'm not on Twitter but you can search anyway).  He made a comment about how many "Ricardian nutters" he is going to have to see on the tv now and in a CNN piece called Richard "spindly and warped".  He really is a Starkey chip off the old block isn't he?  It's too late for me to send his book back now unfortunately (The Plantaganets.  I've told it's good but I really object to contributing to his bank balance the little shithead.
>  
> I'd rather be a Ricardian nutter than a Tudor apologist.
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:54
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> Why are you cross?....Is it because you have no Hagaan Daaz ice cream?...I will think of you as I tuck into my Pralines and Cream....yum...:0)
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > Yes that's who i thought but I thought you said it.  Now we really are as cross purposes! 
> >  
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:40
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >  
> >
> > I dunno...ask Hilary...I thought she meant George Aligia...that bloke that speaks the news on the telly....Eileen
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
> > >  
> > > However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!ÃÆ'‚  Who did you mean?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Alegiah(?ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I can't spell it either ).ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > ButÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ I used to love George AlegÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  ......ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I can't spell him (!).ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  I shall remain positive.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And the BBCÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: EileenB
> > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Johanne
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'Æ'Æ'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I love it!

On Feb 5, 2013, at 5:18 PM, "wednesday_mc" <wednesday.mac@...<mailto:wednesday.mac@...>> wrote:



Regarding Helen Mirren, I always remember that she and Liam Neeson lived together just after he came over to London from Ireland. She was older than he and, said he with a grin, "She taught me to eat shrimp."

~Weds

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> Helen played Queen Anne in an RSC production of Richard III in the early 70s, one of her first leading roles. She was considered too beautiful and too sexy for some of the other big parts at the time,can you believe? They put a huge wooden wheel round her neck as a collar for the coronation scenes!
> Alan Howard played Richard in black leather, badly!
> But no matter what, you just new you were watching a star when Helen was on stage!
> Paul
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!

I once saw a picture of Mary Queen of Scots' death mask in a book (or so it claimed). That did indeed show a really pretty face.
Marie



--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Maybe she was like Mary Queen of Scots to wasn't beautiful at all, not judging by the portraits I've seen, although to be fair since she didn't have wealth or great breeding to recommend her, EW must have been gorgeous.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:00
> Subject: Re: Excerpt fm BBC article on facial reconstruction (was RE: Review of Channel 4 documentary)
>
>  
> I know this is never going to happen but I would love to see a reconstruction of EW face...What did this woman really look like that stole a king's heart and was in no small way the beginning of the end for the Plantagenets. Was she as beautiful as we imagine or would be be surprised...? Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> >
> > Below is more detail on the methods used by the facial reconstructionists
> > (if that's the correct term), which is worth repeating exactly, I think.
> > They didn't know that the skull they were working on was Richard's, so they
> > didn't rely on the portraits until the very end of the process. And
> > apparently, from what she says at the end, their methods have been tested
> > using living subjects and are found to be quite accurate, which is nice to
> > know. There should be no doubt, then, that were we to run into Richard out
> > for a stroll some night, that we would be able to recognize him from this
> > image.
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21328380
> > . . . .
> >
> > "Caroline Wilkinson, professor of craniofacial identification at the
> > University of Dundee, said: "It was a great privilege to be able to analyse
> > a skull thought to be Richard III.
> >
> > ""The facial reconstruction was produced on the assumption that the remains
> > were unknown and portraits of Richard III were not used as reference.
> >
> > ""When the 3D digital bust was complete it was replicated in plastic using a
> > rapid prototyping system and this was painted, prosthetic eyes added and
> > dressed with a wig, hat and clothing."
> >
> > "Prof Wilkinson said the Dundee team artist, Janice Aitken, only used the
> > portraits of Richard III at this stage as reference for hair style and
> > colour, eye colour, skin colour and clothing.
> >
> > "The team estimated the end result was as accurate as possible.
> >
> > ""Our facial reconstruction methods have been blind tested many times using
> > living subjects and we know that we can expect that approximately 70% of the
> > facial surface should have less than 2mm of error," said Prof Wilkinson."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - jltournier60@
> >
> > or jltournier@
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EileenB
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:26 PM
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes...definitely...
> >
> > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it
> > was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair
> > and hat. Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > , Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley,
> > along
> > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > donors! LOL!
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > >
> > > Johanne
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > ] On Behalf Of eileen
> > bates
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing
> > was
> > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of £10,000 at
> > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > burial. Eileen
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

George Alagiah is a BBC newsreader, and without wishing to sound frivolous he's very easy on the eye. Of a certain age now, though, like myself.
Marie

--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> Fair enough (I don't keep it in the house or I would eat it all)  - but who is this George?  I have to know now
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones
> To: ""
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:38
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
> I love these tangents. I shall go and put my head in the fridge tonight. Tomorrow is another day.
>
> ________________________________
> From: liz williams mailto:ferrymansdaughter%40btinternet.com>
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:27
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>
>  
>
> Serves me right for not reading the posts properly.
>  
> However, who is George Alega?  I've never heard of him
>
> ________________________________
> From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 19:04
> Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
>
>  
>
> Who me? Nah...Hilary mentioned George Alega...I was talking about Hagaan Daaz icecream...have we gone off on a tangent again? :0)
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> >
> > That's who I thought you were talking about 'cos you mentioned the news!  Who did you mean?
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: EileenB
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:51
> > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> >
> >  
> > Pardon my ignorance...are you speaking of George Aligia the newsreader? Good looking chap...?
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, liz williams wrote:
> > >
> > > Alegiah(?  I can't spell it either ).  I read somewhere that they write their own scripts.  I used to like Tim Wilcox until I read he'd run off with a blonde newsreader!
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Hilary Jones
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:44
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >  
> > > But I used to love George Aleg  ......  I can't spell him (!).  Not his fault, blame the scriptwriters. Good picture of the facial reconstruction though.  I shall remain positive.  
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: EileenB mailto:cherryripe.eileenb%40googlemail.com>
> > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:34
> > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > Hilary...come on girl!...as Winston Churchill said..:Never, ever, ever give up"! Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And the BBCÃÆ'‚  6.00 pm News has just had an item over about the controversy over the burial of RichardÃÆ'‚  - quote 'the hunchback king' I give up!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: EileenB
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 18:26
> > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > >
> > > > Yes...definitely...
> > > >
> > > > Something on the news at this very moment re the facial construction that it was based on science and not portraiture except the finishing touches...hair and hat. Eileen
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, I would definitely raise a glass or three to Philippa Langley, along
> > > > > with JAH, Annette Carson, and other dedicated Ricardian scholars and the
> > > > > scientists/archeologists who made the whole project possible. Oh - and the
> > > > > donors! LOL!
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie,
> > > > >
> > > > > Johanne
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eileen bates
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 PM
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: Review of Channel 4 documentary
> > > > >
> > > > > Quite honestly I think Philippa was entitled to feeling a bit emotional.
> > > > > The word 'unhinged' has actually been used on here today! She said she saw
> > > > > a man lying on that slab and not the bones. If it was not for the tenacity
> > > > > of Phillipa we would not be where we are today. Philippa was foremost in
> > > > > getting the money raised especially when it looked like the whole thing was
> > > > > going belly up when someone had to back out with their offer of ÃÆ'‚£10,000 at
> > > > > the last minute. She could have given up then but she didnt. I for one
> > > > > will forever be grateful for Philippa for her unflagging determination to
> > > > > find Richard, get him out of that damn car park and given an honourable
> > > > > burial. Eileen
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>