NY Times article

<http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use
r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III


By JOHN F. BURNS


In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
could lead to a reassessment of his reign.



John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.



Here's a tinyurl -

http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu



Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
Ray



-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
Subject: NY Times article






http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use
r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III

By JOHN F. BURNS

In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
could lead to a reassessment of his reign.

John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Here's a tinyurl -

http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi, Ray 

An appropriate name for a supporter of the House of York, btw. (smile)



You're right; the comments I read following the article were surprisingly astute, and much more knowledgeable than many of the anarcho-nihilistic comments that I've read on some of the British websites. (Please don't take offence, British compatriots! I presume that it's just that the NY Times appeals to a different demographic than the Daily Mail.)



I can't tell you about the expenses of the excavation; there are probably others here who would know. I assume it's all been covered, as there was a big fundraiser last year which covered an unexpected shortfall when one of the sponsors pulled out.



But I would like to know more about the plans for Richard's funeral monument. Personally I would prefer an alabaster image, if possible, to a brass. With the wonderful facial reconstruction, it should certainly be possible to create a lifelike and memorable image of King Richard. And I would certainly be prepared to donate toward a monument. So I hope they will tell us more. (There is an existing brass design, by Geoffrey Wheeler, but as the figure is in armor, you can't see the hair, and it could be almost any 15th. c. knight, except for the large boar.)



Anyway, I suggest that they set up a trust fund and solicit donations for the commissioning of Richard's monument.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of raymond long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:18 AM
To:
Subject: Re: NY Times article






The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com> >
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
Subject: NY Times article

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm <http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use> &use
r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III

By JOHN F. BURNS

In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
could lead to a reassessment of his reign.

John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Here's a tinyurl -

http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@... <mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne,
 
I'm not taking offence - the DM appeals to just about the lowest common denominator.  It's actually worse really than rags like the Sun because it pretends to be something it's not.
 
Liz


________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 13:45
Subject: RoE: NY Times article

 
Hi, Ray 

An appropriate name for a supporter of the House of York, btw. (smile)

You're right; the comments I read following the article were surprisingly astute, and much more knowledgeable than many of the anarcho-nihilistic comments that I've read on some of the British websites. (Please don't take offence, British compatriots! I presume that it's just that the NY Times appeals to a different demographic than the Daily Mail.)

I can't tell you about the expenses of the excavation; there are probably others here who would know. I assume it's all been covered, as there was a big fundraiser last year which covered an unexpected shortfall when one of the sponsors pulled out.

But I would like to know more about the plans for Richard's funeral monument. Personally I would prefer an alabaster image, if possible, to a brass. With the wonderful facial reconstruction, it should certainly be possible to create a lifelike and memorable image of King Richard. And I would certainly be prepared to donate toward a monument. So I hope they will tell us more. (There is an existing brass design, by Geoffrey Wheeler, but as the figure is in armor, you can't see the hair, and it could be almost any 15th. c. knight, except for the large boar.)

Anyway, I suggest that they set up a trust fund and solicit donations for the commissioning of Richard's monument.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com

or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raymond long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:18 AM
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NY Times article

The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com >
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
Subject: NY Times article

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use> &use
r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III

By JOHN F. BURNS

In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
could lead to a reassessment of his reign.

John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Here's a tinyurl -

http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com

or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is a lovely idea. I will look for the New York Times article.



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Johanne Tournier
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:45 AM
To:
Subject: RoE: NY Times article



Hi, Ray 

An appropriate name for a supporter of the House of York, btw. (smile)

You're right; the comments I read following the article were surprisingly astute, and much more knowledgeable than many of the anarcho-nihilistic comments that I've read on some of the British websites. (Please don't take offence, British compatriots! I presume that it's just that the NY Times appeals to a different demographic than the Daily Mail.)

I can't tell you about the expenses of the excavation; there are probably others here who would know. I assume it's all been covered, as there was a big fundraiser last year which covered an unexpected shortfall when one of the sponsors pulled out.

But I would like to know more about the plans for Richard's funeral monument. Personally I would prefer an alabaster image, if possible, to a brass. With the wonderful facial reconstruction, it should certainly be possible to create a lifelike and memorable image of King Richard. And I would certainly be prepared to donate toward a monument. So I hope they will tell us more. (There is an existing brass design, by Geoffrey Wheeler, but as the figure is in armor, you can't see the hair, and it could be almost any 15th. c. knight, except for the large boar.)

Anyway, I suggest that they set up a trust fund and solicit donations for the commissioning of Richard's monument.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@...<mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of raymond long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:18 AM
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: NY Times article

The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com> >
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
Subject: NY Times article

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use> &use
r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III

By JOHN F. BURNS

In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
could lead to a reassessment of his reign.

John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Here's a tinyurl -

http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@...<mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To console you all, the comments now coming in here on Yahoo, (usually the home of trolls) after seeing the  face re-construction are VERY positive, that is with regard to the project and the prograrmme.  Even if some did find Philippa's emotion a bit over the top, they had the courtesy to praise her for her tenacity in achieving this. That's unlike the readers of the DM who were demanding that it should have been presented by a certain TR.



________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 14:33
Subject: Re: RoE: NY Times article


 

Johanne,
 
I'm not taking offence - the DM appeals to just about the lowest common denominator.  It's actually worse really than rags like the Sun because it pretends to be something it's not.
 
Liz

________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 13:45
Subject: RoE: NY Times article

 
Hi, Ray 

An appropriate name for a supporter of the House of York, btw. (smile)

You're right; the comments I read following the article were surprisingly astute, and much more knowledgeable than many of the anarcho-nihilistic comments that I've read on some of the British websites. (Please don't take offence, British compatriots! I presume that it's just that the NY Times appeals to a different demographic than the Daily Mail.)

I can't tell you about the expenses of the excavation; there are probably others here who would know. I assume it's all been covered, as there was a big fundraiser last year which covered an unexpected shortfall when one of the sponsors pulled out.

But I would like to know more about the plans for Richard's funeral monument. Personally I would prefer an alabaster image, if possible, to a brass. With the wonderful facial reconstruction, it should certainly be possible to create a lifelike and memorable image of King Richard. And I would certainly be prepared to donate toward a monument. So I hope they will tell us more. (There is an existing brass design, by Geoffrey Wheeler, but as the figure is in armor, you can't see the hair, and it could be almost any 15th. c. knight, except for the large boar.)

Anyway, I suggest that they set up a trust fund and solicit donations for the commissioning of Richard's monument.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com

or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raymond long
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:18 AM
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: NY Times article

The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com >
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
Subject: NY Times article

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use> &use
r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III

By JOHN F. BURNS

In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
could lead to a reassessment of his reign.

John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Here's a tinyurl -

http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com

or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just read the New York Times piece - Richard's bones made the front page! (Well, below the fold).

I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.

--- In , Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> To console you all, the comments now coming in here on Yahoo, (usually the home of trolls) after seeing the  face re-construction are VERY positive, that is with regard to the project and the prograrmme.  Even if some did find Philippa's emotion a bit over the top, they had the courtesy to praise her for her tenacity in achieving this. That's unlike the readers of the DM who were demanding that it should have been presented by a certain TR.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: liz williams
> To: ""
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 14:33
> Subject: Re: RoE: NY Times article
>
>
>  
>
> Johanne,
>  
> I'm not taking offence - the DM appeals to just about the lowest common denominator.  It's actually worse really than rags like the Sun because it pretends to be something it's not.
>  
> Liz
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 13:45
> Subject: RoE: NY Times article
>
>  
> Hi, Ray â€"
>
> An appropriate name for a supporter of the House of York, btw. (smile)
>
> You’re right; the comments I read following the article were surprisingly astute, and much more knowledgeable than many of the anarcho-nihilistic comments that I’ve read on some of the British websites. (Please don’t take offence, British compatriots! I presume that it’s just that the NY Times appeals to a different demographic than the Daily Mail.)
>
> I can’t tell you about the expenses of the excavation; there are probably others here who would know. I assume it’s all been covered, as there was a big fundraiser last year which covered an unexpected shortfall when one of the sponsors pulled out.
>
> But I would like to know more about the plans for Richard’s funeral monument. Personally I would prefer an alabaster image, if possible, to a brass. With the wonderful facial reconstruction, it should certainly be possible to create a lifelike and memorable image of King Richard. And I would certainly be prepared to donate toward a monument. So I hope they will tell us more. (There is an existing brass design, by Geoffrey Wheeler, but as the figure is in armor, you can’t see the hair, and it could be almost any 15th. c. knight, except for the large boar.)
>
> Anyway, I suggest that they set up a trust fund and solicit donations for the commissioning of Richard’s monument.
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raymond long
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:18 AM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: NY Times article
>
> The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
> One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
> Ray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com >
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com >
> Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
> Subject: NY Times article
>
> http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use> &use
> r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
> 4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III
>
> By JOHN F. BURNS
>
> In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
> identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
> could lead to a reassessment of his reign.
>
> John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
> Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
> most emailed story on the NY Times website.
>
> Here's a tinyurl -
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

That was wonderful article, and well written. FINALLY



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of mairemulholland
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:11 AM
To:
Subject: Re: RoE: NY Times article



Just read the New York Times piece - Richard's bones made the front page! (Well, below the fold).

I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.

--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> To console you all, the comments now coming in here on Yahoo, (usually the home of trolls) after seeing the face re-construction are VERY positive, that is with regard to the project and the prograrmme. Even if some did find Philippa's emotion a bit over the top, they had the courtesy to praise her for her tenacity in achieving this. That's unlike the readers of the DM who were demanding that it should have been presented by a certain TR.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: liz williams
> To: "<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>"
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 14:33
> Subject: Re: RoE: NY Times article
>
>
> Â
>
> Johanne,
> Â
> I'm not taking offence - the DM appeals to just about the lowest common denominator. It's actually worse really than rags like the Sun because it pretends to be something it's not.
> Â
> Liz
>
> ________________________________
> From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 13:45
> Subject: RoE: NY Times article
>
> Â
> Hi, Ray â¬"
>
> An appropriate name for a supporter of the House of York, btw. (smile)
>
> Youâ¬"re right; the comments I read following the article were surprisingly astute, and much more knowledgeable than many of the anarcho-nihilistic comments that Iâ¬"ve read on some of the British websites. (Please donâ¬"t take offence, British compatriots! I presume that itâ¬"s just that the NY Times appeals to a different demographic than the Daily Mail.)
>
> I canâ¬"t tell you about the expenses of the excavation; there are probably others here who would know. I assume itâ¬"s all been covered, as there was a big fundraiser last year which covered an unexpected shortfall when one of the sponsors pulled out.
>
> But I would like to know more about the plans for Richardâ¬"s funeral monument. Personally I would prefer an alabaster image, if possible, to a brass. With the wonderful facial reconstruction, it should certainly be possible to create a lifelike and memorable image of King Richard. And I would certainly be prepared to donate toward a monument. So I hope they will tell us more. (There is an existing brass design, by Geoffrey Wheeler, but as the figure is in armor, you canâ¬"t see the hair, and it could be almost any 15th. c. knight, except for the large boar.)
>
> Anyway, I suggest that they set up a trust fund and solicit donations for the commissioning of Richardâ¬"s monument.
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> From: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of raymond long
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:18 AM
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: NY Times article
>
> The public comments to the NYT article are very perceptive and generally support R3's accomplishments. This has been a very uplifting experience and has helped to warm up a very cold winter in the northeast.
> One question as a long time American Branch member I do not recall seeing the plea for funds on the excavation and research... is that all covered now? and what happens now to the parking lot... repave it?
> Ray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johanne Tournier mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com >
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com >
> Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 7:10 am
> Subject: NY Times article
>
> http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCJ4ojsFS9B0BTzl9A9tRJNm&use> &use
> r_id=43dd174a88d0311e9e550c3b3ca73b36&email_type=eta&task_id=136006383448202
> 4> Scholars Say Bones Belonged to Richard III
>
> By JOHN F. BURNS
>
> In one of Britain?s most dramatic modern archaeological finds, tests
> identified the remains of the reviled English monarch, a discovery that
> could lead to a reassessment of his reign.
>
> John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
> Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
> most emailed story on the NY Times website.
>
> Here's a tinyurl -
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ajrjnbu
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
> Johanne
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Johanne Tournier wrote:

[snip]
>
> John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style. Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1 most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Carol responds:

Thanks for this link. Of course, there's still the confusion between a raised shoulder and a "hunchback appearance," but otherwise, I agree; the article is quite good and emphasizes other details as much as the curved spine.

But who is Kevin Schurer, identified by the writer as the historian and demographer who tracked down Michael Ibsen and his anonymous second cousin (whom I hope is female with female descendants!). I thought that J A-H tracked them down.

Carol

Hi, Carol -

I think I have run across Schurer's name as one of the department heads at
Leicester Univ. - probably in charge of the genealogical aspect of the
search. Still, it seems to me that JAH is the one who deserves most credit
for uncovering the Anne of York - Michael Ibsen maternal line. However, it
may well be Schurer who is in overall charge and perhaps was instrumental in
uncovering the second line of descent.



Like you, I hope she is female and has daughters!!! We can only hope.



BTW, do you or anyone, have any idea, based on what you know of the family
trees of the Yorks, who it might be?



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of justcarol67
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 11:25 AM
To:
Subject: Re: NY Times article





Johanne Tournier wrote:

[snip]
>
> John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Carol responds:

Thanks for this link. Of course, there's still the confusion between a
raised shoulder and a "hunchback appearance," but otherwise, I agree; the
article is quite good and emphasizes other details as much as the curved
spine.

But who is Kevin Schurer, identified by the writer as the historian and
demographer who tracked down Michael Ibsen and his anonymous second cousin
(whom I hope is female with female descendants!). I thought that J A-H
tracked them down.

Carol

It was in the Bulletin a few years ago - and the Exeter-Ibsen line included William Wilberforce's wife.

----- Original Message -----
From: Johanne Tournier
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Re: NY Times article



Hi, Carol -

I think I have run across Schurer's name as one of the department heads at
Leicester Univ. - probably in charge of the genealogical aspect of the
search. Still, it seems to me that JAH is the one who deserves most credit
for uncovering the Anne of York - Michael Ibsen maternal line. However, it
may well be Schurer who is in overall charge and perhaps was instrumental in
uncovering the second line of descent.

Like you, I hope she is female and has daughters!!! We can only hope.

BTW, do you or anyone, have any idea, based on what you know of the family
trees of the Yorks, who it might be?

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of justcarol67
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 11:25 AM
To:
Subject: Re: NY Times article

Johanne Tournier wrote:

[snip]
>
> John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
most emailed story on the NY Times website.

Carol responds:

Thanks for this link. Of course, there's still the confusion between a
raised shoulder and a "hunchback appearance," but otherwise, I agree; the
article is quite good and emphasizes other details as much as the curved
spine.

But who is Kevin Schurer, identified by the writer as the historian and
demographer who tracked down Michael Ibsen and his anonymous second cousin
(whom I hope is female with female descendants!). I thought that J A-H
tracked them down.

Carol

Yes. Dr. Schuerer (they spelled it with an umlaut at the presser) of ULeic was assigned to retrace Dr. Ashdown-Hill's work for verification, and also to see if he and his team could identify another line of descent. They accomplished both goals, but the second line--described as a "second cousin" to Mr. Ibsen--has asked to remain "completely anonymous".

--- In , Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> Hi, Carol -
>
> I think I have run across Schurer's name as one of the department heads at
> Leicester Univ. - probably in charge of the genealogical aspect of the
> search. Still, it seems to me that JAH is the one who deserves most credit
> for uncovering the Anne of York - Michael Ibsen maternal line. However, it
> may well be Schurer who is in overall charge and perhaps was instrumental in
> uncovering the second line of descent.
>
>
>
> Like you, I hope she is female and has daughters!!! We can only hope.
>
>
>
> BTW, do you or anyone, have any idea, based on what you know of the family
> trees of the Yorks, who it might be?
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:] On Behalf Of justcarol67
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 11:25 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: NY Times article
>
>
>
>
>
> Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >
> > John Burns' take on the RIII story, in his slightly disdainful style.
> Nevertheless, it's an excellent article. Right now it is listed as the #1
> most emailed story on the NY Times website.
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Thanks for this link. Of course, there's still the confusion between a
> raised shoulder and a "hunchback appearance," but otherwise, I agree; the
> article is quite good and emphasizes other details as much as the curved
> spine.
>
> But who is Kevin Schurer, identified by the writer as the historian and
> demographer who tracked down Michael Ibsen and his anonymous second cousin
> (whom I hope is female with female descendants!). I thought that J A-H
> tracked them down.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English history, the deck is stacked against Richard?

I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at an American university. My professor for every one of those courses worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup. They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.

The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.

But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....

::facepalm:

~Weds

--- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
<snipped>
> I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.

Hi, Weds -

You're Canadian, right? I've noticed the same thing about the history
curriculum here at Acadia Univ. You'd think that Britain started with the
Tudors, for goodness' sakes. Fortunately, as I've mentioned before, my dear
English History prof, Dr. Henry Young, in my undergrad course in 1969-70 or
so assigned *The Daughter of Time* as a text for the course. At the time, I
didn't even know who "The Princes in the Tower" were referring to. But I've
been a Ricardian ever since. Still, when I was in Britain in 1972-73, the
only Ricardian site that I saw was Ludlow Castle. Well, and the Tower. And
Warwick Castle, if that counts. Oh, and Westminster Abbey. The last three
certainly aren't quintessential Ricardian sites. I did get to Hampton Court,
though. You betcha.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of wednesday_mc
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:08 PM
To:
Subject: Re: RoE: NY Times article





You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English
history, the deck is stacked against Richard?

I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at
an American university. My professor for every one of those courses
worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing
about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life
began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup.
They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.

The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same
professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.

But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond
College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did
with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The
closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But
darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....

::facepalm:

~Weds

--- In
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> , "mairemulholland" wrote:

> I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history,
do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant.
Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all!
Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All
the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang
about our poor king! Maire.

I was 14 when my English teacher suddenly looked at me and said "You're a Ricardian! Why did you say nothing before?" he could do nothing to change the history syllabus to study the WOTR but we had some wonderful chats during the lunch breaks! Good old Mr Jones!
Paul


Richard Liveth Yet!




On 5 Feb 2013, at 20:08, wednesday_mc wrote:

> You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English history, the deck is stacked against Richard?
>
> I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at an American university. My professor for every one of those courses worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup. They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.
>
> The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.
>
> But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....
>
> ::facepalm:
>
> ~Weds
>
> --- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
> <snipped>
>> I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Oh, if only I had a teacher like that. Happily for me, there was Josephine Tey and the portrait on the cover of the paperback. Maire.

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> I was 14 when my English teacher suddenly looked at me and said "You're a Ricardian! Why did you say nothing before?" he could do nothing to change the history syllabus to study the WOTR but we had some wonderful chats during the lunch breaks! Good old Mr Jones!
> Paul
>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 20:08, wednesday_mc wrote:
>
> > You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English history, the deck is stacked against Richard?
> >
> > I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at an American university. My professor for every one of those courses worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup. They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.
> >
> > The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.
> >
> > But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....
> >
> > ::facepalm:
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
> >
> >> I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I was friends with his wife and babysit his when I was a teenager. He had brass rubbings in his home and history books I dared not touch, and I learned a lot from him (like where to find the brass rubbing center in London). But I could never talk to him about Richard.

I turned in the paper and he liked it, but when I asked him about
Richard and the princes, he said, "He probably did it." He said it very quietly, and maybe I could have challenged him had I known more than my feeble research of the time, but I backed down and never mentioned it to him again.

He died last year. The first time I talked about Richard with anyone was after his bones were found, and I joined this list. Even if he were still around, I couldn't discuss Richard with him. He had a strange memory-loss ailment akin to Alzheimer's, but the onset came far too early and lasted far too long. He even forgot how to read.

I hope we can meet in the afterlife, and that he tells me then, "I was wrong. Richard didn't do it." Of course, when I ask who did, he'll say, "Go research it." And then I'll have to find Richard 'cause he's a contemporary source. What a bother. :)


~Weds

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> I was 14 when my English teacher suddenly looked at me and said "You're a Ricardian! Why did you say nothing before?" he could do nothing to change the history syllabus to study the WOTR but we had some wonderful chats during the lunch breaks! Good old Mr Jones!
> Paul
>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 20:08, wednesday_mc wrote:
>
> > You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English history, the deck is stacked against Richard?
> >
> > I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at an American university. My professor for every one of those courses worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup. They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.
> >
> > The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.
> >
> > But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....
> >
> > ::facepalm:
> >
> > ~Weds

When I studied medieval history at UC Berkeley, I walked into a thesis class and apparently my reputation preceded me, as the professor said, "Oh, yes, I know you. When you see an approaching BART train and the sign flashes "Richmond", you won't get on until it flashes "Gloucester." (BART is the underground transit system in the Bay Area and Richmond is adjacent to Oakland/Berkeley. I laughed about it then and told him he was right. I've never forgotten it. I found the English history department at Berkeley to be very heavily weighted in favor of the Tudors. The profs who taught medieval were mostly interested in the early Middle Ages. The 15th Century seemed kind of a stepchild.
Pamela Garrett

--- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
>
> I was 14 when my English teacher suddenly looked at me and said "You're a Ricardian! Why did you say nothing before?" he could do nothing to change the history syllabus to study the WOTR but we had some wonderful chats during the lunch breaks! Good old Mr Jones!
> Paul
>
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 20:08, wednesday_mc wrote:
>
> > You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English history, the deck is stacked against Richard?
> >
> > I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at an American university. My professor for every one of those courses worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup. They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.
> >
> > The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.
> >
> > But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....
> >
> > ::facepalm:
> >
> > ~Weds
> >
> > --- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
> >
> >> I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

in 12th grade my English teacher treated the Shakespeare play as history, portraying Richard as a monster and murderer to the class. I wrote my class term paper on how wrong that was, refuting Shakespeare point by point. The teacher acknowledged his error and said he'd do a better job going forward, that he'd make sure to distinguish literature from historical truth.

At a leading university in the US I attended in the 1970s The Daughter of Time was recommended reading for a Tudor history class (even tho the Prof said he thought the preponderance of the evidence was against Richard).

M

--- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
>
> Oh, if only I had a teacher like that. Happily for me, there was Josephine Tey and the portrait on the cover of the paperback. Maire.
>
> --- In , Paul Trevor Bale wrote:
> >
> > I was 14 when my English teacher suddenly looked at me and said "You're a Ricardian! Why did you say nothing before?" he could do nothing to change the history syllabus to study the WOTR but we had some wonderful chats during the lunch breaks! Good old Mr Jones!
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5 Feb 2013, at 20:08, wednesday_mc wrote:
> >
> > > You know, even when an American wants to know everything about English history, the deck is stacked against Richard?
> > >
> > > I took *every* English history course available to me as an undergraduate at an American university. My professor for every one of those courses worshiped at the throne of E1, and I can't remember ever reading or hearing about anything to do with the Wars of the Roses, or anything previous. Life began with the Tudor "renaissance," even in the university's course lineup. They hired and tenured Tudor specialists. End of story.
> > >
> > > The only reason I became aware of Richard to begin with is that this same professor suggested him as the subject of a paper I had to write.
> > >
> > > But in all fairness, when I went to study abroad for a semester at Richmond College, London, I was so wrapped up in Victorian Literature that all I did with Richard was see the portrait in the NPG and bring home a postcard. The closest I got to Bosworth (visiting never entered my mind) was Coventry. But darned if I didn't get to Hampton Court! Indoctrination can be insidious....
> > >
> > > ::facepalm:
> > >
> > > ~Weds
> > >
> > > --- In , "mairemulholland" wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think that Americans, not being taught a great deal of British history, do not grow up with the idea of Richard the III as a deformed tyrant. Unfortunately, they do not grow up with an idea of Richard at all! Therefore, today they are bound to have a more open mind on the subject. All the Guardian and Daily Mail readers care about is some gross rhyming slang about our poor king! Maire.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>