Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-05 15:09:05
Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
here:
http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
Abstract:
The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
Loyaulte me lie,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
here:
http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
Abstract:
The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
Loyaulte me lie,
Johanne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier
Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...
"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-05 16:31:03
Don't forget the coronation chair.
Paul
Richard Liveth Yet!
On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> here:
>
>
>
> http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Paul
Richard Liveth Yet!
On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> here:
>
>
>
> http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - jltournier60@...
>
> or jltournier@...
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-05 17:20:48
What about the Black Prince's ruby? Didn't H5 wear that in his battle crown at Agincourt? Or did it go walkies? It's now in the current crown jewels isn't it?
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:30
Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
Don't forget the coronation chair.
Paul
Richard Liveth Yet!
On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> here:
>
>
>
> http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:30
Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
Don't forget the coronation chair.
Paul
Richard Liveth Yet!
On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> here:
>
>
>
> http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-05 17:22:47
Or in the Humber?
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> What about the Black Prince's ruby? Didn't H5 wear that in his battle crown at Agincourt? Or did it go walkies? It's now in the current crown jewels isn't it?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:30
> Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
>
>
>
>
> Don't forget the coronation chair.
> Paul
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> > Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> > College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> > augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> > which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> > consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> > Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> > the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> > Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> > here:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
> >
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >
> > The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> > presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> > study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> > ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> > English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> > meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> > prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> > first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> > Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> > inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> > divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> > church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> > the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> > provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> > influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> > on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> > was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> > myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> > an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> > The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> > oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> > strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> > French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> > adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> > reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> > the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> > eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> > political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> >
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
> >
> > or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> What about the Black Prince's ruby? Didn't H5 wear that in his battle crown at Agincourt? Or did it go walkies? It's now in the current crown jewels isn't it?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:30
> Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
>
>
>
>
> Don't forget the coronation chair.
> Paul
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
> On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
>
> > Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> > College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> > augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> > which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> > consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> > Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> > the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> > Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> > here:
> >
> >
> >
> > http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
> >
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >
> > The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> > presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> > study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> > ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> > English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> > meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> > prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> > first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> > Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> > inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> > divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> > church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> > the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> > provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> > influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> > on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> > was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> > myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> > an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> > The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> > oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> > strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> > French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> > adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> > reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> > the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> > eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> > political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
> >
> >
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie,
> >
> >
> >
> > Johanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > Johanne L. Tournier
> >
> >
> >
> > Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
> >
> > or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
> >
> >
> >
> > "With God, all things are possible."
> >
> > - Jesus of Nazareth
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-05 17:49:25
The Black Prince's Ruby is in the current crown used by our monarch. There is also an amazing crown, allegedly that of Richard II's Queen, in Munich which pre-dates Richard (I think one of Henry Iv's daughters took it as part of her dowry) and so it escaped the Civil War meltdown (literally). Obviously Richard wouldn't have seen but it's one of the most beautiful things I've seen and much better thant he crown our Queen wears.
> Just google Anne of Bohemia's crown.
>
>> http://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/treasury/pic11.htm
> Just google Anne of Bohemia's crown.
>
>> http://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/treasury/pic11.htm
Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-05 17:54:45
Ive seen that Liz...gorgious beyond words. The beautiful crown that is on the front cover of Eleanor the secret Queen belonged to Margaret of Burgundy. I saw it at an exhibition at the V&A...its tiny. I think it may have been meant to be worn with a hennin...Eileen
--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> The Black Prince's Ruby is in the current crown used by our monarch. There is also an amazing crown, allegedly that of Richard II's Queen, in Munich which pre-dates Richard (I think one of Henry Iv's daughters took it as part of her dowry) and so it escaped the Civil War meltdown (literally). Obviously Richard wouldn't have seen but it's one of the most beautiful things I've seen and much better thant he crown our Queen wears.
>
> > Just google Anne of Bohemia's crown.
> >
> >> http://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/treasury/pic11.htm
>
>
>
--- In , liz williams wrote:
>
> The Black Prince's Ruby is in the current crown used by our monarch. There is also an amazing crown, allegedly that of Richard II's Queen, in Munich which pre-dates Richard (I think one of Henry Iv's daughters took it as part of her dowry) and so it escaped the Civil War meltdown (literally). Obviously Richard wouldn't have seen but it's one of the most beautiful things I've seen and much better thant he crown our Queen wears.
>
> > Just google Anne of Bohemia's crown.
> >
> >> http://www.residenz-muenchen.de/englisch/treasury/pic11.htm
>
>
>
Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
2013-02-20 22:00:36
I think that would be a very safe bet!
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Hilary Jones
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 11:21 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
What about the Black Prince's ruby? Didn't H5 wear that in his battle crown at Agincourt? Or did it go walkies? It's now in the current crown jewels isn't it?
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...<mailto:paul.bale%40sky.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:30
Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
Don't forget the coronation chair.
Paul
Richard Liveth Yet!
On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> here:
>
>
>
> http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Hilary Jones
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 11:21 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
What about the Black Prince's ruby? Didn't H5 wear that in his battle crown at Agincourt? Or did it go walkies? It's now in the current crown jewels isn't it?
________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale paul.bale@...<mailto:paul.bale%40sky.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 5 February 2013, 16:30
Subject: Re: Speaking of Richard and Anne's Coronation
Don't forget the coronation chair.
Paul
Richard Liveth Yet!
On 5 Feb 2013, at 15:08, Johanne Tournier wrote:
> Believe it or not, my professor of Theology at little ol' Acadia Divinity
> College supervised a PhD thesis entitled *Syncretism: the presence of Roman
> augury in the consecration of English monarchs,* by William R. Karlson, Jr.,
> which is an analysis of the significance of the eagle as the bearer of the
> consecrated oil for the anointing of the monarch. According to *The
> Coronation of Richard III*, the "ampulla," as it's called, which is part of
> the Crown Jewels, may be the only remaining accoutrement that survives from
> Richard's coronation. Fascinating, no?
>
>
>
> Anyway, if you're interested, you can download a copy of the thesis for free
> here:
>
>
>
> http://hdl.handle.net/2104/5107
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
> The purpose of this study is to offer insight into the reason for an eagle's
> presence in the English royal consecration of the monarch. This trans-era
> study examines the impact of the Roman practice of augury on the
> ecclesiastical history of the early Church and the medieval French and
> English churches. Fresh insight is also provided regarding the possible
> meanings of the dove at Jesus' baptism for Luke's authorial audience. The
> prevalence of augury in the milieu of the early church likely led the
> first-century readers of the gospels to interpret the descent of the dove at
> Jesus' baptism to be functionally the same as Roman augury regarding royal
> inauguration but antithetical in form from the bird usually associated with
> divine confirmation of emperors, the eagle. Several times in the early
> church, the flight of a dove functioned in the likeness of Roman augury in
> the selection and divine confirmation of ecclesiastical leaders. This study
> provides information on additional examples on how the Greco-Roman culture
> influenced the early and medieval Christian Church and the impact of augury
> on Christian thinking. There is little doubt that the English eagle Ampulla
> was an adaptation of the French Sainte Ampoule. This ninth-century French
> myth was preceded by the miraculous Visigothic royal anointing of Wamba in
> an effort to bolster the royal claims of the king over would-be contenders.
> The French legend followed with the account of miraculous avian delivered
> oil, which first appeared during the reign of Charles the Bald as a means of
> strengthening the French king's assert to the throne and later bolstering
> French claims to having the supreme Christian King of the world. The English
> adapted the French legend with the myth of St Thomas' Holy Oil under the
> reign of Edward II. Richard II later altered the story once again to include
> the Roman symbolism of an eagle that reflected his imperial aspirations. The
> eagle Ampulla failed to secure Richard's kingship and never reached the
> political significance that he French Sainte Ampulla achieved.
>
>
>
> Loyaulte me lie,
>
>
>
> Johanne
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Johanne L. Tournier
>
>
>
> Email - mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com
>
> or mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv
>
>
>
> "With God, all things are possible."
>
> - Jesus of Nazareth
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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