Correspondence with Louis XI

You'll have to pardon the spelling- just typed up quickly in what feels
like right modern spelling as I go, but I'm very rusty.

Louis to Richard:

Monsieur mon cousin. J'ai vu les lettres que m'avez * par votre herault
Blanc Sanglier, et vous mercie des nouvelles que m'avez fait savoir, et
si vous puis faire quelque service je le ferai de tres bon coeur car je
veux bien avoir votre amitie. Et Adieu, Monsieur mon cousin. Ecrit aux
Montils les Tours le XXieme jour de Juillet.
*word for 'sent' missing

Kendall's tranny:
"Monsieur mon cousin, I have seen the letter that you sent me by your
herald Blanc Sanglier and thank you for the news you've given me and if
I can do you any service, I'll do it very willingly for I want to have
your friendship. Adieu, Monsieur mon cousin"
Finishes "Written at Montils les Tours the 20th day of July."


Richard to Louis

1. Monsieur mon Cousin. J'ai vu les lettres qu m'avez envoyees par
Buckingham le Herault, par lesquelles j'entends que voulez bien avoir
mon amitie, dont je suis bien content en bonne forme et maniere, car je
n'entends pour rompre telles treves comme ci-devant etaient conclues
entres feu de tres noble memoire, le roi mon frere trepasse, et vous -
pour le terme d'icelles. Toutefois, les marchands de celui mon royaune
d'Angleterre, voyants les grandes occasions a eux donnees par vos sujets
en prenant les navires & marchandises & autrement, doutant grandement
d'eux aventurer d'aller a Bordeaux & ailleurs en votre obeissance
jusqu'a ce qu'ils puissent etre assures de par vous de pouvoir
securement & sauvement exercer le fait de leurs dit marchandises en tous
les lieux de votre dit obeissance accordant au droit des dites treves;
sur quoi, afin que mes dits sujets & marchants ne soient decues sous
ombre d'icelle, je vous prie que mon serviteur, ce porteur (l'un des
chevaucheurs de mon ecurie) me veuillez faire savoir par ecrit votre
plaine intention, ensemble si chose desirez que pour vous puisse, pour
l'accomplir de bon coeur. Et Adieu soyez, Monsieur mon Cousin. Ecrit en
mon chateau de Leicester le XVIIIieme jour d'Aout.

Kendall's tranny:
"I have seen the letters you have sent me by Buckingham herald, whereby
I understand that you want my friendship in good form and manner, which
contents me well enough; for I have no intention of breaking such truces
as have previously been concluded between the late King of most noble
memory, my brother, and you for as long as they still have to run [i.e.,
till April 9, 1484]. Nevertheless, the merchants of this my kingdom of
England, seeing the great provocations your subjects have given them in
seizing ships and merchandise and other goods, are fearful of venturing
to go to Bordeuax and other places under your rule until they are
assured by you that they can surely and safely carry on trade in all the
places suject to your sway, according to the rights established by the
aforesaid truces. Therefore, in order that my subjects and merchants may
not find themselves deceived as a result of this present ambiguous
situation, I pray you that by my servant this bearer, one of the grooms
of my stable [no more impressive envoy being called for!], you will let
me know in writing your full intentions, at the same time informing me
if there is anything I can do for you in order that I may do it with
good heart. And farewell to you, Monsieur mon cousin."
Finishes "Written at my castle of Nottingham the 18th day of August."

2. Monsieur mon Cousin. Je me racommande a vous tant comme je puis. J'ai
recrit a mon serviteur Blanc Sanglier, a presant etant par devers vous,
afin de faire provision d'aucuns vins du cru de Bourgogne et de la Haute
France pour moi et la Reine ma compagne. Si, vous prie pour ce, Monsieur
mon Cousin, que veuillez donner commandement a vos officiers et sujets
qu'ils le souffrent faire la provision des dits vins, & franchement
conduire ou faire conduire & passer en celui mon royaume d'Angleterre
sans aucune detourbier ou contredit, et vous me ferez en ce un bien
singulier plaisir. Et s'il est aucune chose que je puisse faire pour
vous, en le me faisant savoir je l'accomplirai tres volontiers a l'aide
de Dieu, qui, mnonsieur mon Cousin, vous ait en sa sainte garde. Ecrit
en mon chateau de Nottingham le XXieme jour d'Aout.

My tranny:
"Monsieur mon Cousin. I recommend me to you as much as I can. I have
written again to my servant Blanc Sanglier, being at present out your
way, to purchase certain wines of Burgundy and Haute France for myself
and my companion the Queen. Therefore I pray you, Monsieur mon Cousin,
to be so good as to command your officers and subjects to let him buy up
the said wines and freely bring them, or have them brought, into my
realm of England without any disturbance or contradiction, and you will
do me a most singular pleasure. And if there is anything I can do for
you, let me know & I shall do it very willingly, with the help of God;
and may He, Monsieur mon Cousin, have you in his holy keeping. Written
at my castle of Nottingham the 20th day of August."

Wonder what he meant by that last bit. Has everyone perhaps missed the
point with Richard's "murders"? Is it possible that the only one he ever
committed was having Blanc Sanglier slip the old devil Louis some
poisoned wine??? (after all, he did die 10 days after this letter was
written!)
Marie

PS This is meant to be humerous. I don't intend to rattle anyone's
feathers (or plumes, pinions or quills for that matter).

Thanks for the letters and translations! Last year (or maybe even
longer ago) there was discussion on a R III list about the
possibility of Louis sending poisoned wine to Edward IV. Something
about a reference in Dumas, I think. Now we have a surmise that
Richard returned the favor with poisoned wine to Louis. This sounds
like the seeds for a great novel. Of course, truth can be stranger
than fiction....

L.M.L.,
Janet

--- In , "marie walsh"
<marie@r...> wrote:
> You'll have to pardon the spelling- just typed up quickly in what
feels
> like right modern spelling as I go, but I'm very rusty.
>
> Louis to Richard:
>
> Monsieur mon cousin. J'ai vu les lettres que m'avez * par votre
herault
> Blanc Sanglier, et vous mercie des nouvelles que m'avez fait
savoir, et
> si vous puis faire quelque service je le ferai de tres bon coeur
car je
> veux bien avoir votre amitie. Et Adieu, Monsieur mon cousin. Ecrit
aux
> Montils les Tours le XXieme jour de Juillet.
> *word for 'sent' missing
>
> Kendall's tranny:
> "Monsieur mon cousin, I have seen the letter that you sent me by
your
> herald Blanc Sanglier and thank you for the news you've given me
and if
> I can do you any service, I'll do it very willingly for I want to
have
> your friendship. Adieu, Monsieur mon cousin"
> Finishes "Written at Montils les Tours the 20th day of July."
>
>
> Richard to Louis
>
> 1. Monsieur mon Cousin. J'ai vu les lettres qu m'avez envoyees par
> Buckingham le Herault, par lesquelles j'entends que voulez bien
avoir
> mon amitie, dont je suis bien content en bonne forme et maniere,
car je
> n'entends pour rompre telles treves comme ci-devant etaient
conclues
> entres feu de tres noble memoire, le roi mon frere trepasse, et
vous -
> pour le terme d'icelles. Toutefois, les marchands de celui mon
royaune
> d'Angleterre, voyants les grandes occasions a eux donnees par vos
sujets
> en prenant les navires & marchandises & autrement, doutant
grandement
> d'eux aventurer d'aller a Bordeaux & ailleurs en votre obeissance
> jusqu'a ce qu'ils puissent etre assures de par vous de pouvoir
> securement & sauvement exercer le fait de leurs dit marchandises
en tous
> les lieux de votre dit obeissance accordant au droit des dites
treves;
> sur quoi, afin que mes dits sujets & marchants ne soient decues
sous
> ombre d'icelle, je vous prie que mon serviteur, ce porteur (l'un
des
> chevaucheurs de mon ecurie) me veuillez faire savoir par ecrit
votre
> plaine intention, ensemble si chose desirez que pour vous puisse,
pour
> l'accomplir de bon coeur. Et Adieu soyez, Monsieur mon Cousin.
Ecrit en
> mon chateau de Leicester le XVIIIieme jour d'Aout.
>
> Kendall's tranny:
> "I have seen the letters you have sent me by Buckingham herald,
whereby
> I understand that you want my friendship in good form and manner,
which
> contents me well enough; for I have no intention of breaking such
truces
> as have previously been concluded between the late King of most
noble
> memory, my brother, and you for as long as they still have to run
[i.e.,
> till April 9, 1484]. Nevertheless, the merchants of this my
kingdom of
> England, seeing the great provocations your subjects have given
them in
> seizing ships and merchandise and other goods, are fearful of
venturing
> to go to Bordeuax and other places under your rule until they are
> assured by you that they can surely and safely carry on trade in
all the
> places suject to your sway, according to the rights established by
the
> aforesaid truces. Therefore, in order that my subjects and
merchants may
> not find themselves deceived as a result of this present ambiguous
> situation, I pray you that by my servant this bearer, one of the
grooms
> of my stable [no more impressive envoy being called for!], you
will let
> me know in writing your full intentions, at the same time
informing me
> if there is anything I can do for you in order that I may do it
with
> good heart. And farewell to you, Monsieur mon cousin."
> Finishes "Written at my castle of Nottingham the 18th day of
August."
>
> 2. Monsieur mon Cousin. Je me racommande a vous tant comme je
puis. J'ai
> recrit a mon serviteur Blanc Sanglier, a presant etant par devers
vous,
> afin de faire provision d'aucuns vins du cru de Bourgogne et de la
Haute
> France pour moi et la Reine ma compagne. Si, vous prie pour ce,
Monsieur
> mon Cousin, que veuillez donner commandement a vos officiers et
sujets
> qu'ils le souffrent faire la provision des dits vins, & franchement
> conduire ou faire conduire & passer en celui mon royaume
d'Angleterre
> sans aucune detourbier ou contredit, et vous me ferez en ce un bien
> singulier plaisir. Et s'il est aucune chose que je puisse faire
pour
> vous, en le me faisant savoir je l'accomplirai tres volontiers a
l'aide
> de Dieu, qui, mnonsieur mon Cousin, vous ait en sa sainte garde.
Ecrit
> en mon chateau de Nottingham le XXieme jour d'Aout.
>
> My tranny:
> "Monsieur mon Cousin. I recommend me to you as much as I can. I
have
> written again to my servant Blanc Sanglier, being at present out
your
> way, to purchase certain wines of Burgundy and Haute France for
myself
> and my companion the Queen. Therefore I pray you, Monsieur mon
Cousin,
> to be so good as to command your officers and subjects to let him
buy up
> the said wines and freely bring them, or have them brought, into my
> realm of England without any disturbance or contradiction, and you
will
> do me a most singular pleasure. And if there is anything I can do
for
> you, let me know & I shall do it very willingly, with the help of
God;
> and may He, Monsieur mon Cousin, have you in his holy keeping.
Written
> at my castle of Nottingham the 20th day of August."
>
> Wonder what he meant by that last bit. Has everyone perhaps missed
the
> point with Richard's "murders"? Is it possible that the only one
he ever
> committed was having Blanc Sanglier slip the old devil Louis some
> poisoned wine??? (after all, he did die 10 days after this letter
was
> written!)
> Marie
>
> PS This is meant to be humerous. I don't intend to rattle anyone's
> feathers (or plumes, pinions or quills for that matter).

< Last year (or maybe even
> longer ago) there was discussion on a R III list about the
> possibility of Louis sending poisoned wine to Edward IV. Something
> about a reference in Dumas, I think. Now we have a surmise that
> Richard returned the favor with poisoned wine to Louis. This
sounds
> like the seeds for a great novel. Of course, truth can be stranger
> than fiction....
>
> L.M.L.,
> Janet
>

Yes, actually it's a nice idea but I'm not sure I believe it. It does
seem that both Louis XI and Edward IV had been going rapidly
downhill for some time. At the time Richard wrote, Louis was
definitely on his last legs and no doubt that had been reported back
to him. So the glee in his message and the commendation to God's
keeping may have been simple anticipation.
Actually, what I'd be really interested to know is what these
people's top doctors would have been dosing them with. To say they
had a poor success rate would be understating the case. I became a
bit suspicious when I read in Hughes that Edward's alchemist doctors
relied exclusively on chemical remedies and turned their noses up at
herbal medicine. So perhaps they were poisoned, but not by their
enemies. . . . ???

Marie

> >
>
> Yes, actually it's a nice idea but I'm not sure I believe it. It
does
> seem that both Louis XI and Edward IV had been going rapidly
> downhill for some time. At the time Richard wrote, Louis was
> definitely on his last legs and no doubt that had been reported
back
> to him. So the glee in his message and the commendation to God's
> keeping may have been simple anticipation.
> Actually, what I'd be really interested to know is what these
> people's top doctors would have been dosing them with. To say they
> had a poor success rate would be understating the case. I became a
> bit suspicious when I read in Hughes that Edward's alchemist
doctors
> relied exclusively on chemical remedies and turned their noses up
at
> herbal medicine. So perhaps they were poisoned, but not by their
> enemies. . . . ???
>
> Marie

The thought had occurred to me, too, Marie. Most of the remedies, if
one can use the word, that doctors had at their disposal up till this
century were deadly poisons. The trick of curing or at least helping
rather than killing lay in the administration and the dosage. I read
that when Edward IV's coffin was opened a century or two after his
death, his corpse was found to be remarkably well-preserved. I don't
know if bodies were deliberately embalmed in those days, aside from
being pickled in spirits for shipment home for burial. A well-
preserved corpse that wasn't embalmed makes me think of arsenic.

Whether someone would be poisoned deliberately (by arsenic or
otherwise) or accidentally in the course of medical treatment might
be hard to figure. Every few years much is made of the fact that
locks of hair snipped from Napoleon's head at his death are loaded
with arsenic. The question is whether he was poisoned with murder in
mind, whether his dctors poisoned him unintentionally with their
medicines, or whether he did it himself with home-remedy nostrums --
he was known to dose himself because he didn't trust his doctors.
(The arsenic wasn't from embalming because the hair was cut from his
head minutes after death, for remembrances.) It was probably a
combination -- the medicine may well have contained arsenic, which
was used in blood-builders and tonics, and so may the potions he was
medicating hinself with and the combination eventually produced a
fatal accumulation. I wonder if anyone has studied exactly what his
doctors were plying him with.

Actually, slow poisoning via small doses of arsenic fits quite well
with what we know of Edward's symptoms.

Katy

re Louis' offhand letter acknowledging Richard as King, addressed to
him as "Monsieur mon cousin",, and Richard's peplies, in kind,
thought ya-all might be interested in this from Helen Maurer's recent
bio of Margaret of Anjou, argung that her addressing Somerset as her
very cear cousin didn't prove they were close because:
"In French Henry VI referred to both the duke of York and the earl
of Dorset (later duke of Somerset) as 'tres chier et tres ame
cousin'. The greetings of contemporary letters in English run the
gamut from 'trusty and well-beloved' (to the relatively lowly)
to 'right trusty and right entirely beloved'; and the like to the
more exalted; the rule of thumb seems to be that the higher the
status of the person writtten or referred to, the more superlative
the phrase."

So, Louis' plain "Monsieur Mon Cousin" was rude, and Richard replied
equally rudely (being careful, however, merely to mimic Louis'
phrases - all through the letters - so Louis hadn't a leg to stand on
if he wanted to complain).

Marie