An Introduction and Two Questions

Hello to all!
As I have seen others do, I wanted to briefly introduce myself as a new group member and broach two queries I hope haven't already been under much discussion.

My name is Ariana, and I am currently an undergraduate student of Mediaeval history, Biology and English. I've been fascinated with the history of King Richard III for years (since I was about 11- my father gave me The Daughter of Time. After all our Richard III conversations, he may regret that!) and I have been part of the society since 2010. I look forward to discussing this intriguing history and the recent discovery (there are so many well-read individuals in this group!).

The first query I have pertains to Edward of Middleham. I am hoping to locate information regarding his daily life, including whether or not he went on procession, and his connections with his cousins both before and during their residence in the tower. If anyone knows if/where I can find this information, that would be greatly appreciated.

Secondly, after reading through some posts in this group, I understand that the written source where King Edward IV appoints Richard as Lord Protector has not been found, but it is understood (as I always believed to be the case) that this did come to pass and Richard did not declare himself Lord Protector. If there is no physical document, can someone clarify the origins of this perspective? Please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

Thank you, and very best regards.
Ariana

In view of the death of Ann Neville [Richards Queen] it seems likely that Edward named for his bother? had ALSO Pulmonary T.B. [It MAY Be that Richards Scoliosis was due to TB in the spine.]
 
Kind Regards,
 
Arthur .



>________________________________
> From: arianae1485 <arianae1485@...>
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2013, 6:55
>Subject: An Introduction and Two Questions
>
>
> 
>Hello to all!
>As I have seen others do, I wanted to briefly introduce myself as a new group member and broach two queries I hope haven't already been under much discussion.
>
>My name is Ariana, and I am currently an undergraduate student of Mediaeval history, Biology and English. I've been fascinated with the history of King Richard III for years (since I was about 11- my father gave me The Daughter of Time. After all our Richard III conversations, he may regret that!) and I have been part of the society since 2010. I look forward to discussing this intriguing history and the recent discovery (there are so many well-read individuals in this group!).
>
>The first query I have pertains to Edward of Middleham. I am hoping to locate information regarding his daily life, including whether or not he went on procession, and his connections with his cousins both before and during their residence in the tower. If anyone knows if/where I can find this information, that would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Secondly, after reading through some posts in this group, I understand that the written source where King Edward IV appoints Richard as Lord Protector has not been found, but it is understood (as I always believed to be the case) that this did come to pass and Richard did not declare himself Lord Protector. If there is no physical document, can someone clarify the origins of this perspective? Please correct me if any of this is incorrect.
>
>Thank you, and very best regards.
>Ariana
>
>
>
>
>

Ariana wrote;
[snip]
> The first query I have pertains to Edward of Middleham. I am hoping to locate information regarding his daily life, including whether or not he went on procession, and his connections with his cousins both before and during their residence in the tower. If anyone knows if/where I can find this information, that would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Secondly, after reading through some posts in this group, I understand that the written source where King Edward IV appoints Richard as Lord Protector has not been found, but it is understood (as I always believed to be the case) that this did come to pass and Richard did not declare himself Lord Protector. If there is no physical document, can someone clarify the origins of this perspective? Please correct me if any of this is incorrect.

Carol responds:

I'm afraid that very little is known about Edward of Middleham except that Richard had him invested as Prince of Wales while he was in York on progress in 1484 and, of course, his death and its affect on the king and queen at Middleham. Even his birth date is in dispute though most authorities now think it was 1476 based on Rous. Others may know more.

As for the missing codicil, there is no doubt (except among certain traditionalist historians) that the will (as stated by Mancini) named Richard as Protector and that his position was legally confirmed in council once he reached London. I don't have access to Mancini at the moment but will try to check into it later. The hostile Croyland Chronicler says nothing about the will or Richard's authority as Protector (and Constable of England, which he also was) before his arrival in London but does say that at a council meeting "the duke of Gloucester received the same high office of Protector of the kingdom, which had been given to Humphrey, duke of Gloucester, during the minority of king Henry. He was accordingly invested with this authority, with the consent and good-will of all the lords, with power to order and forbid in every matter, just like another king, and according as the necessity of the case should demand." His implication seems to be that the protectorship was the decision of the council, "the more prudent members" having already expressed the opinion that guardianship of so youthful a person, until he should reach the years of maturity, ought to be utterly forbidden to his uncles and brothers on his mother's side." In other words, it was a foregone conclusion that Richard should be Protector (and, by implication, regent), but he seems not to know about the codicil and makes other errors, such as Richard's writing to the queen instead of the council, which make him less reliable than Mancini here.

If someone else can check Mancini to see what he says about the codicil, I would be extremely grateful.

Carol

--- In , Arthurian <lancastrian@...> wrote:
>
> In view of the death of Ann Neville [Richards Queen] it seems likely that Edward named for his bother? had ALSO Pulmonary T.B. [It MAY Be that Richards Scoliosis was due to TB in the spine.]

Carol responds:

There's no proof that Anne Neville (or her sister Isabel) had tuberculosis. I've read speculation that Edward of Middleham had an attack of appendicitis, but no one knows how he died. Combining those speculations to give Richard a tubercular spine is, I think, carrying speculation too far.

I can't wait for independent experts to question the Leicester team's findings and begin new research of their own. Till then, we can speculate, but all we have is the contemporary sources (which mention nothing worse than small size, delicate arms and legs, and a raised shoulder mentioned by a hostile source) and Richard's known prowess as a soldier, along with some photos of bones and some premature remarks by a team that had insufficient time to arrive at their conclusions and the pressure of a camera crew recording their every move and word.

Arthur, which biographies or sources have you read? We'll be happy to make recommendations if you need them.

Carol

From: Arthurian
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: An Introduction and Two Questions


> In view of the death of Ann Neville [Richards Queen] it seems likely that
Edward named for his bother? had ALSO Pulmonary T.B. [It MAY Be that
Richards Scoliosis was due to TB in the spine.]

I would think that if Richard had TB early enough to have influenced the
development of scoliosis then he wouldn't have been fit enough to be the
fighter and dancer the records show he was (although the "dancer" bit isn't
strongly confirmed). Scoliosis can be cause by muscle imbalance due to a
pre-existing injury, or by the spine just growing so fast that the muscles
can't keep up and so the spine gets pulled out of shape.

He looks consumptive in the portraits, which are believed to be taken from
an original or originals probably painted in the last year of his life, but
as somebody pointed out it's possible to have an alarmingly pink and white,
translucent complexion with prominent blue veins and not actually be ill.