interesting bits from Baker's Chronicle [was Richard's tears at Anne

Baker commits many innacuracies and broadly swallows More's version of
Richard, but at the same time he is close enough to Richard's day to have
got information from people whose parents or grandparents had witnessed the
events of Richard's reign first hand, so there's a good chance that any new
information of a gossipy character which he provides may be true -
especially if it is neutral or favourable to Richard, since it goes against
the general thrust of his argument.

I'm going to post a collection of interesting snippets from Baker as I read
through him. I will begin by re-posting the bit about Edward's death and
More's creative way with dialogue, so that it's all together under this
heading.


*****

He had an excellent Art in improving his favours ; for he could do as much
with a final courtesy, as other men with a great Benefit : And that which
was more, he could make advantages of disadvantages : For he got the Love of
the Londoners by owing them money ; and the good Will of the Citizens, by
lying with their Wives.

Of his Death and Burial

Whether it began from his mind being extremely troubled with the injurious
dealing of the King of France ; or from his body by intemperence of diet, to
which he was much given : He fell into a Sickness (some say a Catarrh, some
a Feaver) but into a Sicknes whereof he died. In the time of which
Sickness, and at the very point of death, Sir Thomas Moor makes him to make
a speech to his Lords ; which I might think to be the speech of a sick man,
if it were not so sound ; and of a weak man, if it were not so long : but it
seems Sir Thomas Moor delivers rather what was fit for him to say, than what
he said ...

*****

Of Richard:

Claim that when Richard accepted the Crown "The next day [17/06/1483] King
RICHARD with a great Train went to Westminster Hall, and placed hismelf in
the Court of the King;s Bench, saying, he would take the Crown upon him in
that place where the King himself sitteth and ministreth the Law, because he
considered that it is the chief duty of a King to administer the Laws. And
here, to get the love of the people by a feigned clemency, he sent for one
Fooge out of Sanctuary, who for fear of his displeasure was fled thither ;
and there in the sight of all the people, caused him to kiss his hand."

He's doing what More does, of course, and assuming that openly kindly and
forbearing gestures by Richard must have a sinsiter and manipulative cause,
but take away the journalistic assumptions about Richard's motives which
Baker could not have known, and here is a vignette of Richard being
responsible and generous (as usual).

"... upon the fourth of July [1483] : together with his new Bride, he went
from Baynard's Castle to the Tower by water, where he created Edward his
Son, a Child of ten years old, Prince of Wales ... "

He's very confused about Ann and must have mixed up her coronation with her
wedding (something I've seen a modern jouurnalist do recently in re. the
Chogyal of Sikkim in the 1960s, but at least in that case the coronation and
the wedding were only a couple of years apart - OTOH the journalist in
question had actually been an adult living in Sikkim at the time of the
wedding, and he still got it wrong!). One wonders who Baker thought young
Edward's mother was, if he thought Richard and Ann had only just married -
evidently logic wasn't his strong suit. But we can see that Baker, at
least, understood young Edward to have been born in 1472 or 1473.

Very detailed description of the coronation ceremony, which I'm not going to
write out because it would take forever, but on the subject of whether the
king and queen were bare from the waist or not he says:

"... and going up to the High Altar, there shifted their Robes; and having
other Robes open in divers places from the middle upward, were both of them
Anointed and Crowned ..."

So he understands them to have been fully clothed, but in robes or shifts
which had strategic openings so the chrism could be apllied to their skin.

He follows More in claiming that the two boys were killed and then buried
under a heap of stones near a stair - that is, *not* in a bloody great hole
going down right under the foundations, and indeed not in the ground at
all - and then removed to a Christian burial in an unknown location, such
that the skeletons found in that deep hole do not in any way conform with
this version of events execpt that there was a stair nearby. There can't be
that many locations at the Tower which *aren't* near a stair.

He claims Richard to have suffered badly from nightmares "and would
sometimes in the night start out of his bed, and run about the Chamber in
great fright, as if all the Furies of Hell were hanging about him", but I
don't know if this is more than a paraphrase of More. You'd think he'd be
more suspicious of More, wouldn't you, having spotted that the old bastard
had invented most of his dialogue.

[It occurs to me that Richard might well have shot out of bed in the middle
of the night and run about the chamber, swearing, because his back had just
cramped up....]

That'll do for the moment.

As the 'Sole Survivor' of a long line of Brothers [& Paper Crowned Dad] Small wonder he had nightmares!!
 
Kind Regards,
 
Arthur.



>________________________________
> From: Claire M Jordan <whitehound@...>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, 1 March 2013, 16:02
>Subject: interesting bits from Baker's Chronicle [was Richard's tears at Anne's funeral]
>
>
> 
>Baker commits many innacuracies and broadly swallows More's version of
>Richard, but at the same time he is close enough to Richard's day to have
>got information from people whose parents or grandparents had witnessed the
>events of Richard's reign first hand, so there's a good chance that any new
>information of a gossipy character which he provides may be true -
>especially if it is neutral or favourable to Richard, since it goes against
>the general thrust of his argument.
>
>I'm going to post a collection of interesting snippets from Baker as I read
>through him. I will begin by re-posting the bit about Edward's death and
>More's creative way with dialogue, so that it's all together under this
>heading.
>
>*****
>
>He had an excellent Art in improving his favours ; for he could do as much
>with a final courtesy, as other men with a great Benefit : And that which
>was more, he could make advantages of disadvantages : For he got the Love of
>the Londoners by owing them money ; and the good Will of the Citizens, by
>lying with their Wives.
>
>Of his Death and Burial
>
>Whether it began from his mind being extremely troubled with the injurious
>dealing of the King of France ; or from his body by intemperence of diet, to
>which he was much given : He fell into a Sickness (some say a Catarrh, some
>a Feaver) but into a Sicknes whereof he died. In the time of which
>Sickness, and at the very point of death, Sir Thomas Moor makes him to make
>a speech to his Lords ; which I might think to be the speech of a sick man,
>if it were not so sound ; and of a weak man, if it were not so long : but it
>seems Sir Thomas Moor delivers rather what was fit for him to say, than what
>he said ...
>
>*****
>
>Of Richard:
>
>Claim that when Richard accepted the Crown "The next day [17/06/1483] King
>RICHARD with a great Train went to Westminster Hall, and placed hismelf in
>the Court of the King;s Bench, saying, he would take the Crown upon him in
>that place where the King himself sitteth and ministreth the Law, because he
>considered that it is the chief duty of a King to administer the Laws. And
>here, to get the love of the people by a feigned clemency, he sent for one
>Fooge out of Sanctuary, who for fear of his displeasure was fled thither ;
>and there in the sight of all the people, caused him to kiss his hand."
>
>He's doing what More does, of course, and assuming that openly kindly and
>forbearing gestures by Richard must have a sinsiter and manipulative cause,
>but take away the journalistic assumptions about Richard's motives which
>Baker could not have known, and here is a vignette of Richard being
>responsible and generous (as usual).
>
>"... upon the fourth of July [1483] : together with his new Bride, he went
>from Baynard's Castle to the Tower by water, where he created Edward his
>Son, a Child of ten years old, Prince of Wales ... "
>
>He's very confused about Ann and must have mixed up her coronation with her
>wedding (something I've seen a modern jouurnalist do recently in re. the
>Chogyal of Sikkim in the 1960s, but at least in that case the coronation and
>the wedding were only a couple of years apart - OTOH the journalist in
>question had actually been an adult living in Sikkim at the time of the
>wedding, and he still got it wrong!). One wonders who Baker thought young
>Edward's mother was, if he thought Richard and Ann had only just married -
>evidently logic wasn't his strong suit. But we can see that Baker, at
>least, understood young Edward to have been born in 1472 or 1473.
>
>Very detailed description of the coronation ceremony, which I'm not going to
>write out because it would take forever, but on the subject of whether the
>king and queen were bare from the waist or not he says:
>
>"... and going up to the High Altar, there shifted their Robes; and having
>other Robes open in divers places from the middle upward, were both of them
>Anointed and Crowned ..."
>
>So he understands them to have been fully clothed, but in robes or shifts
>which had strategic openings so the chrism could be apllied to their skin.
>
>He follows More in claiming that the two boys were killed and then buried
>under a heap of stones near a stair - that is, *not* in a bloody great hole
>going down right under the foundations, and indeed not in the ground at
>all - and then removed to a Christian burial in an unknown location, such
>that the skeletons found in that deep hole do not in any way conform with
>this version of events execpt that there was a stair nearby. There can't be
>that many locations at the Tower which *aren't* near a stair.
>
>He claims Richard to have suffered badly from nightmares "and would
>sometimes in the night start out of his bed, and run about the Chamber in
>great fright, as if all the Furies of Hell were hanging about him", but I
>don't know if this is more than a paraphrase of More. You'd think he'd be
>more suspicious of More, wouldn't you, having spotted that the old bastard
>had invented most of his dialogue.
>
>[It occurs to me that Richard might well have shot out of bed in the middle
>of the night and run about the chamber, swearing, because his back had just
>cramped up....]
>
>That'll do for the moment.
>
>
>
>
>

From: Arthurian
To:
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: interesting bits from Baker's
Chronicle [was Richard's tears at Anne's funeral]


> As the 'Sole Survivor' of a long line of Brothers [& Paper Crowned Dad]
> Small wonder he had nightmares!!

And he was present during the Sack of Ludlow when he was seven, even though
the idea that Cis, George and Richard were actually at the town cross and
witnessed the sack close up seems to be Kendall's invention.