A new biography

I'd like to propose that in addition to a new sensible biography in print,
in this age, there should be a stronger serious web-presence.

I can see something that presents Richard & his contemporaries in their own
words, and the "facts" that are more or less certain (discussions about
sources & their reliability regarding individual "facts" could be
included). Any points in the story that are open to interpretation could
also be argued. There seems to be a group of people on this forum who have
degrees of expertise (whether "professional" or not) that could support
such a project. Bits & pieces of this vision already exist, in particular,
on the NSW branch website, but perhaps the parent Society could promote the
idea of one "go-to" site that has everything you ever wanted to know about
Richard.

I'd draw a parallel with the website to which I currently contribute. The
group of supporters is much smaller than this one, perhaps 30 all over the
world. What we share is a commitment to careful scholarship. Most of us
are amateur historians, although a couple of us are academics (at least one
of us in a totally unrelated area). Vigorous debates occur "behind the
scenes" on a Yahoo Forum. And when we think we've hashed something out to
everyone's satisfaction, it may "go live" on the actual website. If anyone
wants to take a look the site is

http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/


A J

I think that's a good suggestion and it's clearly what the Society is attempting to do. Trouble is, as you say, there are also many disparate websites of the various branches, many of which hold really good information not held by the central website. I don't know what resources the central Society has to throw at this or how it all works. I doubt there's a sort of 'federal' system where the really good bits on the branch websites are pushed upwards and quoted or referenced on the main site.
As you say, the main Society would need to provide either a person or panel to sift and endorse before central publication but there are a number of issues which could do with more prominent support and publication. I'd start with challenging the 'hunchback' terminology. Perhaps beyond that, the same person or body could act as a channel to the Media so that important debates reach beyond just us?   
Just throwing out a few thoughts.  H


________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013, 12:54
Subject: A new biography

 

I'd like to propose that in addition to a new sensible biography in print,
in this age, there should be a stronger serious web-presence.

I can see something that presents Richard & his contemporaries in their own
words, and the "facts" that are more or less certain (discussions about
sources & their reliability regarding individual "facts" could be
included). Any points in the story that are open to interpretation could
also be argued. There seems to be a group of people on this forum who have
degrees of expertise (whether "professional" or not) that could support
such a project. Bits & pieces of this vision already exist, in particular,
on the NSW branch website, but perhaps the parent Society could promote the
idea of one "go-to" site that has everything you ever wanted to know about
Richard.

I'd draw a parallel with the website to which I currently contribute. The
group of supporters is much smaller than this one, perhaps 30 all over the
world. What we share is a commitment to careful scholarship. Most of us
are amateur historians, although a couple of us are academics (at least one
of us in a totally unrelated area). Vigorous debates occur "behind the
scenes" on a Yahoo Forum. And when we think we've hashed something out to
everyone's satisfaction, it may "go live" on the actual website. If anyone
wants to take a look the site is

http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/

A J

Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda - just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party at face value. This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be discerned from appearance. Duncan in 'Macbeth' would have a few words to say about that. While such sentiments are fine here, they undermine academic credibility on an official website.

This isn't to say that the Society shouldn't persevere, but it needs to be rigorous in its use of language. And, as we've said before, it needs a spokesperson with a decent media profile.

Jonathan

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

Absolutely. We come full circle again. But who? Perhaps a starting point would be a background person with media experience who makes sure use of language is rigorous and effective.



________________________________
From: Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...>
To: Richard III Society Forum <>
Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013, 13:50
Subject: Re: A new biography

 

Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda - just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party at face value. This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be discerned from appearance. Duncan in 'Macbeth' would have a few words to say about that. While such sentiments are fine here, they undermine academic credibility on an official website.

This isn't to say that the Society shouldn't persevere, but it needs to be rigorous in its use of language. And, as we've said before, it needs a spokesperson with a decent media profile.

Jonathan

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

Do we know if anyone is writing any new bio on Richard at present? I think we have some really great scholars here who can do a good job. No one?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Mar 22, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Jonathan Evans <jmcevans98@...> wrote:

> Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda - just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party at face value. This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be discerned from appearance. Duncan in 'Macbeth' would have a few words to say about that. While such sentiments are fine here, they undermine academic credibility on an official website.
>
> This isn't to say that the Society shouldn't persevere, but it needs to be rigorous in its use of language. And, as we've said before, it needs a spokesperson with a decent media profile.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>
>
>
>

There is a work by the MP Chris Skidmore on Bosworth due out in May (he was the one who called for the commons debate I think?). Look on amazon. But he now seems to be veering to the Tudors. See the title.



________________________________
From: Ishita Bandyo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013, 14:01
Subject: Re: A new biography


 

Do we know if anyone is writing any new bio on Richard at present? I think we have some really great scholars here who can do a good job. No one?

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Mar 22, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Jonathan Evans <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> wrote:

> Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda - just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party at face value. This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be discerned from appearance. Duncan in 'Macbeth' would have a few words to say about that. While such sentiments are fine here, they undermine academic credibility on an official website.
>
> This isn't to say that the Society shouldn't persevere, but it needs to be rigorous in its use of language. And, as we've said before, it needs a spokesperson with a decent media profile.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
>
>
>
>

Thanks!!
I wonder why we have no proRichard historian out there! And even the sympathetic ones are changing their approach. Do they all believe Richard was in the wrong and Tudor in the right?
I have stopped visiting the Facebook pages. The dislike is so palpable and I keep getting involved in skirmishes.....

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:

> There is a work by the MP Chris Skidmore on Bosworth due out in May (he was the one who called for the commons debate I think?). Look on amazon. But he now seems to be veering to the Tudors. See the title.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ishita Bandyo <bandyoi@...>
> To: ">
> Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013, 14:01
> Subject: Re: A new biography
>
>
>
>
> Do we know if anyone is writing any new bio on Richard at present? I think we have some really great scholars here who can do a good job. No one?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Mar 22, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Jonathan Evans <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda - just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party at face value. This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be discerned from appearance. Duncan in 'Macbeth' would have a few words to say about that. While such sentiments are fine here, they undermine academic credibility on an official website.
> >
> > This isn't to say that the Society shouldn't persevere, but it needs to be rigorous in its use of language. And, as we've said before, it needs a spokesperson with a decent media profile.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I stll blame Dr Appleby and her hunchback. It's used to justify all the old prejudices.



________________________________
From: Ishita Bandyo <bandyoi@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013, 15:06
Subject: Re: A new biography


 

Thanks!!
I wonder why we have no proRichard historian out there! And even the sympathetic ones are changing their approach. Do they all believe Richard was in the wrong and Tudor in the right?
I have stopped visiting the Facebook pages. The dislike is so palpable and I keep getting involved in skirmishes.....

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On Mar 22, 2013, at 10:04 AM, Hilary Jones <mailto:hjnatdat%40yahoo.com> wrote:

> There is a work by the MP Chris Skidmore on Bosworth due out in May (he was the one who called for the commons debate I think?). Look on amazon. But he now seems to be veering to the Tudors. See the title.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ishita Bandyo <mailto:bandyoi%40yahoo.com>
> To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013, 14:01
> Subject: Re: A new biography
>
>
>
>
> Do we know if anyone is writing any new bio on Richard at present? I think we have some really great scholars here who can do a good job. No one?
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> www.ishitabandyo.com
> www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
> www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com
>
> On Mar 22, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Jonathan Evans <mailto:jmcevans98%40yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda - just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party at face value. This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be discerned from appearance. Duncan in 'Macbeth' would have a few words to say about that. While such sentiments are fine here, they undermine academic credibility on an official website.
> >
> > This isn't to say that the Society shouldn't persevere, but it needs to be rigorous in its use of language. And, as we've said before, it needs a spokesperson with a decent media profile.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Jonathan Evans
To: Richard III Society Forum
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: A new biography


> Part of the trouble is that anything appearing on the RIII Society website
> will be viewed with a degree of suspicion because there's a clear agenda -
> just as no one unaffiliated takes anything released by a political party
> at face value.

This is part of why I think it's wrong to constantly snipe at and use
insulting nicknames for the Tudor faction. I genuinely believe most of them
were decent-enough people who were victims of circumstance - apart from
Morton, who was a creator of the circumstances other people became victims
of - but also, if we can't be seen to be even-handed and fair then that
weakens the impact of our case for Richard, because people will assume we're
just being biased.

> This is terribly unfair, but the Society does't always help itself. For
> instance, I thought the way the facial reconstruction was described was a
> little too effusive in that it came close to saying character can be
> discerned from appearance.

Up to a point it can, insofar as as you get older the lines in your face
come to reflect your habitual expression, which tends to be to some extent
an indicator of character - but that kind of detail cannot be picked up from
facial reconstructions. We can derive more from the NPG portrait which, if
it is accurate, suggests an anxious but amiable expression (and
eye-strain!).

What the facial reconstruction *does* do is show that even though the
Tudor-period antis were to some extent right about his crooked spine, their
descriptions of him as ugly were clearly wildly off and the result of
propaganda, and therefore everything they say about him is suspect.

A J Hibbard wrote:
>
> I'd like to propose that in addition to a new sensible biography in print, in this age, there should be a stronger serious web-presence.
>
> I can see something that presents Richard & his contemporaries in their own words, and the "facts" that are more or less certain (discussions about sources & their reliability regarding individual "facts" could be included). Any points in the story that are open to interpretation could also be argued. There seems to be a group of people on this forum who have degrees of expertise (whether "professional" or not) that could support such a project. Bits & pieces of this vision already exist, in particular, on the NSW branch website, but perhaps the parent Society could promote the idea of one "go-to" site that has everything you ever wanted to know about Richard.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Excellent suggestion, AJ. For those who don't know, the American branch does have an online library, accessible to anyone, member or not, which includes the Arrivall, the Croyland chronicle, Fabyan, Commynes, More, Vergil, and many other sources (of history or Tudor propaganda). I strongly recommend that everyone who hasn't already done so bookmark this very useful site:

http://www.r3.org/bookcase/index.html

Unfortunately, it doesn't include Mancini, whose "Occupatione" doesn't seem to be online except for the Latin version in Google books. (I tried the English version and got a message saying that the URL does not exist.)

I also recommend, though it's not online, Sutton and Hammond's "The Road to Bosworth Field," which is still affordable if you snatch up one of the two "collectible" editions or buy it used, and contains many transcribed documents, including Richard's letters, Titulus Regius, and the charter for the "collage" at Middleham. I did a mini-review of the book at Amazon if anyone is interested:

http://www.amazon.com/Richard-III-Bosworth-History-Politics/dp/009466160X

If you miss out on the "collectibles," you might want to consult Amazon UK to see if the prices for a new hardbound edition or the paperback are better there.

Carol

Hilary Jones wrote:
>
> I think that's a good suggestion and it's clearly what the Society is attempting to do. Trouble is, as you say, there are also many disparate websites of the various branches, many of which hold really good information not held by the central website. [snip] Perhaps beyond that, the same person or body could act as a channel to the Media so that important debates reach beyond just us?   
> Just throwing out a few thoughts.  H

Carol responds:

In the meantime, this forum's website includes links to the websites of various branches. I've added a link for the New South Wales site, which includes interesting and informative articles by Annette Carson.

The Society does have media contacts and periodically issues press releases that link to the Society's main website. Unfortunately, the main site (unlike the American branch site) does not include links to online sources.

Carol

Thank you, A J Hibbard.  As webmaster of the NSW Branch this is really appreciated!

Cheers,
Dorothea



________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 22 March 2013 11:54 PM
Subject: A new biography


 
"Bits & pieces of this vision already exist, in particular,
on the NSW branch website"

Thank you, Carol, for the link.

Cheers,

Dorothea




________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 23 March 2013 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: A new biography


 

In the meantime, this forum's website includes links to the websites of various branches. I've added a link for the New South Wales site, which includes interesting and informative articles by Annette Carson.

In a message dated 22/03/2013 16:11:11 GMT Standard Time,
justcarol67@... writes:





A J Hibbard wrote:
>
> I'd like to propose that in addition to a new sensible biography in
print, in this age, there should be a stronger serious web-presence.
>
> I can see something that presents Richard & his contemporaries in their
own words, and the "facts" that are more or less certain (discussions about
sources & their reliability regarding individual "facts" could be
included). Any points in the story that are open to interpretation could also be
argued. There seems to be a group of people on this forum who have degrees of
expertise (whether "professional" or not) that could support such a
project. Bits & pieces of this vision already exist, in particular, on the NSW
branch website, but perhaps the parent Society could promote the idea of one
"go-to" site that has everything you ever wanted to know about Richard.

[snip]

Carol responds:

Excellent suggestion, AJ. For those who don't know, the American branch
does have an online library, accessible to anyone, member or not, which
includes the Arrivall, the Croyland chronicle, Fabyan, Commynes, More, Vergil,
and many other sources (of history or Tudor propaganda). I strongly
recommend that everyone who hasn't already done so bookmark this very useful site:

http://www.r3.org/bookcase/index.html

Unfortunately, it doesn't include Mancini, whose "Occupatione" doesn't
seem to be online except for the Latin version in Google books. (I tried the
English version and got a message saying that the URL does not exist.)

I also recommend, though it's not online, Sutton and Hammond's "The Road
to Bosworth Field," which is still affordable if you snatch up one of the
two "collectible" editions or buy it used, and contains many transcribed
documents, including Richard's letters, Titulus Regius, and the charter for the
"collage" at Middleham. I did a mini-review of the book at Amazon if
anyone is interested:

http://www.amazon.com/Richard-III-Bosworth-History-Politics/dp/009466160X

If you miss out on the "collectibles," you might want to consult Amazon UK
to see if the prices for a new hardbound edition or the paperback are
better there.

Carol