Standard bearer story
Standard bearer story
2013-04-11 15:10:49
Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
that man?
I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
not).
A J
standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
that man?
I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
not).
A J
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-11 16:18:52
I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his legs cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
No idea what the source is.
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 15:10
Subject: Standard bearer story
Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
that man?
I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
not).
A J
No idea what the source is.
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 15:10
Subject: Standard bearer story
Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
that man?
I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
not).
A J
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-11 16:32:39
Thanks - at least there's a "Percy" in his name!
A J
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:18 AM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his legs
> cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
>
> No idea what the source is.
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 15:10
> Subject: Standard bearer story
>
>
>
> Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> that man?
>
> I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> not).
>
> A J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
A J
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:18 AM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his legs
> cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
>
> No idea what the source is.
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 15:10
> Subject: Standard bearer story
>
>
>
> Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> that man?
>
> I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> not).
>
> A J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-11 16:47:24
Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
"Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
Col
--- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> that man?
>
> I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> not).
>
> A J
>
>
>
>
"Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
Col
--- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...> wrote:
>
> Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> that man?
>
> I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> not).
>
> A J
>
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-11 16:49:30
Thanks - looks as if I'm following the same trail. Will now have to look
elsewhere I suppose for the progenitors of the Pearce family of Rhode
Island. It is amazing how that one statement about Peter Percy, from a
book published in the US in 1888 is now all over the internet as "gospel."
A J
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]>wrote:
> **
>
>
> Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
>
> "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
>
> Col
>
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > that man?
> >
> > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts
> -
> > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making
> it
> > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > not).
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
elsewhere I suppose for the progenitors of the Pearce family of Rhode
Island. It is amazing how that one statement about Peter Percy, from a
book published in the US in 1888 is now all over the internet as "gospel."
A J
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, colyngbourne <[email protected]>wrote:
> **
>
>
> Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
>
> "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
>
> Col
>
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > that man?
> >
> > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts
> -
> > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making
> it
> > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > not).
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-11 16:59:12
A certain forthcoming book agrees with this, although Parker and Swinburne
bore standards for other units in his army.
----- Original Message -----
From: "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Standard bearer story
> Thanks - at least there's a "Percy" in his name!
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:18 AM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his
>> legs
>> cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
>>
>> No idea what the source is.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 15:10
>> Subject: Standard bearer story
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
>> standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
>> that man?
>>
>> I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
>> him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
>> counts -
>> the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
>> this
>> story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making
>> it
>> in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
>> not).
>>
>> A J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
bore standards for other units in his army.
----- Original Message -----
From: "A J Hibbard" <ajhibbard@...>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Standard bearer story
> Thanks - at least there's a "Percy" in his name!
>
> A J
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:18 AM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his
>> legs
>> cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
>>
>> No idea what the source is.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 15:10
>> Subject: Standard bearer story
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
>> standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
>> that man?
>>
>> I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
>> him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
>> counts -
>> the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
>> this
>> story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making
>> it
>> in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
>> not).
>>
>> A J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 11:15:19
Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine
--- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
>
> "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
>
> Col
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@> wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > that man?
> >
> > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > not).
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Loyaulte me Lie
Christine
--- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
>
> "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
>
> Col
>
> --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@> wrote:
> >
> > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > that man?
> >
> > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > not).
> >
> > A J
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 13:09:23
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 17:36:04
My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst other things, boy racers).
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, christineholmes651@... <
christineholmes651@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 19:24:37
Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst other things, boy racers).
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst other things, boy racers).
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 19:32:57
I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> To: "" <
> >
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
> the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
> in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> other things, boy racers).
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
> Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> <no_reply@...>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > >
> > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> the
> > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > >
> > > Col
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> <ajhibbard@>
>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> name
> > of
> > > > that man?
> > > >
> > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > making
> > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > counts -
> > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> > this
> > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > making it
> > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> > you
> > > > not).
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> To: "" <
> >
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
> the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
> in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> other things, boy racers).
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
> Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> <no_reply@...>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > >
> > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> the
> > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > >
> > > Col
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> <ajhibbard@>
>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> name
> > of
> > > > that man?
> > > >
> > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > making
> > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > counts -
> > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> > this
> > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > making it
> > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> > you
> > > > not).
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 21:13:03
Sorry AJ I was just speaking generally about those who are tracing their ancestors, usually to William the Conqueror, George Washington or Julius Caesar - and lately Isaac Newton!
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:32
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> To: "" <
> >
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
> the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
> in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> other things, boy racers).
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
> Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> <no_reply@...>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > >
> > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> the
> > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > >
> > > Col
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> <ajhibbard@>
>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> name
> > of
> > > > that man?
> > > >
> > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > making
> > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > counts -
> > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> > this
> > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > making it
> > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> > you
> > > > not).
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:32
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> To: "" <
> >
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
> the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
> in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> other things, boy racers).
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
> Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > Loyaulte me Lie
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> <no_reply@...>
>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > >
> > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> the
> > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > >
> > > Col
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> <ajhibbard@>
>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> name
> > of
> > > > that man?
> > > >
> > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > making
> > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > counts -
> > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> > this
> > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > making it
> > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> > you
> > > > not).
> > > >
> > > > A J
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 21:18:22
Okay - sometimes I still lose the thread...
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Sorry AJ I was just speaking generally about those who are tracing their
> ancestors, usually to William the Conqueror, George Washington or Julius
> Caesar - and lately Isaac Newton!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:32
>
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
> descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> > To: "" <
> > >
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> > ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to
> whom
> > the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town
> created
> > in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> > other things, boy racers).
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce
> /
> > Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
> >
> > A J
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> > christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> > mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> > <no_reply@...>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > > >
> > > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> > the
> > > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > > >
> > > > Col
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> > <ajhibbard@>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> > name
> > > of
> > > > > that man?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > > making
> > > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > > counts -
> > > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who
> repeat
> > > this
> > > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > > making it
> > > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I
> kid
> > > you
> > > > > not).
> > > > >
> > > > > A J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Sorry AJ I was just speaking generally about those who are tracing their
> ancestors, usually to William the Conqueror, George Washington or Julius
> Caesar - and lately Isaac Newton!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:32
>
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
> descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> > To: "" <
> > >
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> > ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to
> whom
> > the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town
> created
> > in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> > other things, boy racers).
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce
> /
> > Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
> >
> > A J
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> > christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> > mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> > <no_reply@...>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > > >
> > > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> > the
> > > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > > >
> > > > Col
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> > <ajhibbard@>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> > name
> > > of
> > > > > that man?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > > making
> > > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > > counts -
> > > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who
> repeat
> > > this
> > > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > > making it
> > > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I
> kid
> > > you
> > > > > not).
> > > > >
> > > > > A J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 21:24:42
No problem, we all do!
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 21:18
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Okay - sometimes I still lose the thread...
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Sorry AJ I was just speaking generally about those who are tracing their
> ancestors, usually to William the Conqueror, George Washington or Julius
> Caesar - and lately Isaac Newton!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:32
>
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
> descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> > To: "" <
> > >
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> > ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to
> whom
> > the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town
> created
> > in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> > other things, boy racers).
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce
> /
> > Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
> >
> > A J
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> > christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> > mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> > <no_reply@...>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > > >
> > > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> > the
> > > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > > >
> > > > Col
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> > <ajhibbard@>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> > name
> > > of
> > > > > that man?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > > making
> > > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > > counts -
> > > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who
> repeat
> > > this
> > > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > > making it
> > > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I
> kid
> > > you
> > > > > not).
> > > > >
> > > > > A J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 21:18
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Okay - sometimes I still lose the thread...
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:13 PM, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Sorry AJ I was just speaking generally about those who are tracing their
> ancestors, usually to William the Conqueror, George Washington or Julius
> Caesar - and lately Isaac Newton!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:32
>
> Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
>
>
> I doubt it, since the book was published in the US & meant to show the
> descent of the American Pearce / Pierce family.
>
> A J
>
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 1:24 PM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> > To: "" <
> > >
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
> > ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to
> whom
> > the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town
> created
> > in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
> > other things, boy racers).
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
> > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
> > Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
> >
> >
> > Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce
> /
> > Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
> >
> > A J
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:
> > christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
> > mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> > > descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> > > Loyaulte me Lie
> > > Christine
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne
> > <no_reply@...>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> > > >
> > > > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held
> > the
> > > Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> > > >
> > > > Col
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard
> > <ajhibbard@>
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the
> > name
> > > of
> > > > > that man?
> > > > >
> > > > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> > > making
> > > > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> > > counts -
> > > > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who
> repeat
> > > this
> > > > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> > > making it
> > > > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I
> kid
> > > you
> > > > > not).
> > > > >
> > > > > A J
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 21:28:42
I reckon so - who else has ever heard of it?. Sorry, I'm doing a Slough, so forgive me all those on here who come from MK. I passed through today intact.
________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:24
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <mailto:hjnatdat%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst other things, boy racers).
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 19:24
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Are these English people saying this? Oh dear
________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <mailto:hjnatdat%40yahoo.com>
To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:36
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst other things, boy racers).
________________________________
From: A J Hibbard <mailto:ajhibbard%40gmail.com>
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 13:09
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Thank you. Wish I knew how to get the word out to all those lazy Pearce /
Pierce family historians who just keep on copying the old misinformation.
A J
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:15 AM, mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com <
mailto:christineholmes651%40btinternet.com> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's
> descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, colyngbourne <no_reply@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the
> Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name
> of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history
> making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several
> counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat
> this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some
> making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid
> you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-12 23:09:28
--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his legs cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
> Â
> No idea what the source is.Â
Carol responds:
I found this tidbit for Sir Percival, who also seems to be associated with Thirlwall Castle (note spelling):
Sir Percival THIRLWALL (THIRWOLD) (k.b.1485)
Squire.
2 Mar.1484 The bailiffs, farmers and tenants etc. of Bastondene and Estildasey, Berkshire, were ordered to pay him all their rents, profits etc.
(Harl.433 II p.110)
23 Feb.1485 He had a commission to the farmers of the lordships of Bastondene, Berkshire, and the manor of Glutton and Farnsham, Somerset, to show them that he had been given the said lordships. (ibid.p.204)
22 Aug. Richard's standard-bearer in the final charge at Bosworth. He held up the standard even after his legs had been cut from under him.
(Bennett pp.114 and 116)
Thirlwall 3,303 28/10/88
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CIgBEBYwCw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.girders.net%2FTh%2FThirlwall%2C%2520Sir%2520Percival%2C%2520%28k.b.1485%29.doc&ei=IYFoUYrGKbT9iQLhp4DoBA&usg=AFQjCNHkYQyN2ejQUXG8QH8NJYxYIAGDHg&sig2=becXWN_UhQmHlumri-QYsg&bvm=bv.45175338,d.cGE
I *think* the information in this Word document comes from A.J. Pollard. I vaguely recall seeing it before. No idea who Bennett is.
Carol
>
> I only know the story about Sir Percy Thirlwell who allegedly had his legs cut from under him but hung onto the standard before dying.
> Â
> No idea what the source is.Â
Carol responds:
I found this tidbit for Sir Percival, who also seems to be associated with Thirlwall Castle (note spelling):
Sir Percival THIRLWALL (THIRWOLD) (k.b.1485)
Squire.
2 Mar.1484 The bailiffs, farmers and tenants etc. of Bastondene and Estildasey, Berkshire, were ordered to pay him all their rents, profits etc.
(Harl.433 II p.110)
23 Feb.1485 He had a commission to the farmers of the lordships of Bastondene, Berkshire, and the manor of Glutton and Farnsham, Somerset, to show them that he had been given the said lordships. (ibid.p.204)
22 Aug. Richard's standard-bearer in the final charge at Bosworth. He held up the standard even after his legs had been cut from under him.
(Bennett pp.114 and 116)
Thirlwall 3,303 28/10/88
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&ved=0CIgBEBYwCw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.girders.net%2FTh%2FThirlwall%2C%2520Sir%2520Percival%2C%2520%28k.b.1485%29.doc&ei=IYFoUYrGKbT9iQLhp4DoBA&usg=AFQjCNHkYQyN2ejQUXG8QH8NJYxYIAGDHg&sig2=becXWN_UhQmHlumri-QYsg&bvm=bv.45175338,d.cGE
I *think* the information in this Word document comes from A.J. Pollard. I vaguely recall seeing it before. No idea who Bennett is.
Carol
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-13 16:43:12
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-13 17:24:25
Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned. Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14 goes straight through Naseby battlefield.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-14 16:09:52
Hilary Jones wrote:
"Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John
Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure
they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the
internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned.
Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone
I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the
area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14
goes straight through Naseby battlefield."
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
As for Naseby battlefield, at least it's accessible! (snark off)
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
"Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John
Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure
they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the
internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned.
Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone
I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the
area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14
goes straight through Naseby battlefield."
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
As for Naseby battlefield, at least it's accessible! (snark off)
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-14 16:34:34
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
Sandra here:
I too was at GCHQ in Cheltenham, way back before the Flood in 1963-65.
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
Sandra here:
I too was at GCHQ in Cheltenham, way back before the Flood in 1963-65.
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-14 16:34:55
I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
--- In , "christineholmes651@..." <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- In , "christineholmes651@..." <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-14 17:37:38
This is another conflation. Parker may well have carried the standard of another Royal unit, however he was alive many years later and became grandfather to Viscountess Rochford.
The description is identical to that applied to Thirlwell by other sources.
----- Original Message -----
From: colyngbourne
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Standard bearer story
I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
--- In , "christineholmes651@..." <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
The description is identical to that applied to Thirlwell by other sources.
----- Original Message -----
From: colyngbourne
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: Standard bearer story
I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
--- In , "christineholmes651@..." <christineholmes651@...> wrote:
>
> Hello All Thought you might like to know that Percival Thirwall's descendent still lives in Yorkshire and is proud of his ancestor.
> Loyaulte me Lie
> Christine
>
> --- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Wikipedia has it as Sir Percival Thirlwell -
> >
> > "Richard's banner man, Sir Percival Thirwell, lost his legs but held the Yorkist banner aloft until he was hacked to death"
> >
> > Col
> >
> > --- In , A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can anyone point me to the source of the story about Richard's
> > > standard-bearer at Bosworth? And, especially does anyone have the name of
> > > that man?
> > >
> > > I've come across an extremely dubious tradition of family history making
> > > him out to have been a Peter Percy. This is suspicious on several counts -
> > > the most obvious being the name. Not to mention that folks who repeat this
> > > story online don't seem to know when "Peter" actually died, some making it
> > > in the early 1500's, others at the Battle of Bosworth in 1486 (I kid you
> > > not).
> > >
> > > A J
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-14 21:27:08
Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous" poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2013, 17:12
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John
Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure
they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the
internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned.
Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone
I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the
area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14
goes straight through Naseby battlefield."
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
As for Naseby battlefield, at least it's accessible! (snark off)
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2013, 17:12
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John
Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure
they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the
internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned.
Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone
I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the
area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14
goes straight through Naseby battlefield."
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
As for Naseby battlefield, at least it's accessible! (snark off)
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-15 13:34:57
SandraMachin wrote:
"I too was at GCHQ in Cheltenham, way back before the Flood in 1963-65."
Doug again:
I was at Oakley from mid-85 to late 87; the work was very interesting, the
people marvelous and, hopefully, both sides came out ahead (I know I did)!
It was also when I first got interested in Richard, I bought a copy of
Williamson's "Princes" from the bookstore on the High Street.
I *was* going to say "The rest is hitory", but that's the problem, isn't it?
Doug
"I too was at GCHQ in Cheltenham, way back before the Flood in 1963-65."
Doug again:
I was at Oakley from mid-85 to late 87; the work was very interesting, the
people marvelous and, hopefully, both sides came out ahead (I know I did)!
It was also when I first got interested in Richard, I bought a copy of
Williamson's "Princes" from the bookstore on the High Street.
I *was* going to say "The rest is hitory", but that's the problem, isn't it?
Doug
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-15 14:42:30
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-15 20:57:04
--- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
Carol responds:
Vergil is no help. The only standard bearer he mentions is Tudor's (William Brandon). He wouldn't show one of Richard's men being heroically loyal, of course, so we need to look elsewhere (for Hutton's source, maybe).
By the way, Thirlwall/Thirlwell/Thurleball is spelled many different ways, making it harder to find accurate information. However, since Thirlwall matches the castle, I'm guessing that's probably the correct spelling.
Carol
>
> I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
Carol responds:
Vergil is no help. The only standard bearer he mentions is Tudor's (William Brandon). He wouldn't show one of Richard's men being heroically loyal, of course, so we need to look elsewhere (for Hutton's source, maybe).
By the way, Thirlwall/Thirlwell/Thurleball is spelled many different ways, making it harder to find accurate information. However, since Thirlwall matches the castle, I'm guessing that's probably the correct spelling.
Carol
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-15 21:38:38
Three men are named in various places as Richard's Standard Bearer:
William Parker, Perceval Thirlwall & Gilbert Swinburn. The latter two are always listed as being killed in the battle, Parker evidently survived.
________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 20:57
Subject: Re: Standard bearer story
--- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
Carol responds:
Vergil is no help. The only standard bearer he mentions is Tudor's (William Brandon). He wouldn't show one of Richard's men being heroically loyal, of course, so we need to look elsewhere (for Hutton's source, maybe).
By the way, Thirlwall/Thirlwell/Thurleball is spelled many different ways, making it harder to find accurate information. However, since Thirlwall matches the castle, I'm guessing that's probably the correct spelling.
Carol
William Parker, Perceval Thirlwall & Gilbert Swinburn. The latter two are always listed as being killed in the battle, Parker evidently survived.
________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 April 2013, 20:57
Subject: Re: Standard bearer story
--- In , colyngbourne <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I was just hunting around in Clements Markham and found this - a different name, oddly - "Sir William Parker (or Thurleball?), the King's standard-bearer, is said to have kept the lions of England on high until both his legs were cut from under him, nor, when on the ground, would he let go while breath was left in his body." [his source was Hutton's "Bosworth" and Vergil].
Carol responds:
Vergil is no help. The only standard bearer he mentions is Tudor's (William Brandon). He wouldn't show one of Richard's men being heroically loyal, of course, so we need to look elsewhere (for Hutton's source, maybe).
By the way, Thirlwall/Thirlwell/Thurleball is spelled many different ways, making it harder to find accurate information. However, since Thirlwall matches the castle, I'm guessing that's probably the correct spelling.
Carol
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-15 22:55:10
You are indeed right - so much for the Lecturers of LSE who taught that the origins of the name was a tribute to radical thought. I've never bumped into anyone who came from there though (I don't mean recently) and I know Bucks pretty well. The relationship with the Staffords of Grafton (if that's Grafton Worcs) is quite interesting though, They crop up quite a lot in what I'm looking into. Many thanks and mea culpa for misleading Doug.
________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 20:59
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous" poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2013, 17:12
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John
Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure
they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the
internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned.
Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone
I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the
area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14
goes straight through Naseby battlefield."
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
As for Naseby battlefield, at least it's accessible! (snark off)
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: david rayner <theblackprussian@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 20:59
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous" poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 13 April 2013, 17:12
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"Yes, it does indeed say Milton Keynes (which was of course named after John
Milton and John Meynard Keynes, who came that little bit later). I'm sure
they do mean, as you say, Northants/Beds/Bucks. That's the trouble with the
internet, one mistake and it goes viral, especially where bdm are concerned.
Yes it is the codebreakers' Bletchley Park. I haven't been there but someone
I know says they are restoring it quite well. And you're right about the
area being relevant to both the Civil War and 'our' period. Pity the A14
goes straight through Naseby battlefield."
Doug here:
What the internet needs is the electronic equivalent of publishers'
"errata", something that would automatically attach itself to the,
incorrect, original. Beyond my talents, I'm afraid.
Great hearing about Bletchley as I was stationed at its' successor in
Cheltenham.
As for Naseby battlefield, at least it's accessible! (snark off)
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013, 17:46
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"My best bit in the last few days' research is those who claim their
ancestors were born in Milton Keynes in 1402 (for those from the US to whom
the fame of Milton Keynes might not have spread, it was a new town created
in the second half of the twentieth century which specialises in, amongst
other things, boy racers)."
Doug here:
Does the book *really* say "Milton Keynes"? Now, if the people you're
referring to had said "born in 1402 in the Milton Keynes area", there'd be
no problems. Otherwise, oh my...
Checked with my old UK road atlas and discovered MK is hard by Stony
Stratford and chock-a-block with Newport Pagnall. Both of historical
interest; the former to us, the latter to English Civil War buffs. I also
saw a "Bletchley". Is that *the* Bletchley of "Bletchley Park" fame?
Of course, MK's *also* just southeast of Northamption, so there'd
undoubtedly be lots of possibilities for geneological digging and delving in
the area - as long as one searches in places that were there in 1402!
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-15 23:01:20
As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins (in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial ground in England, one learns new things every day.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial ground in England, one learns new things every day.
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-16 17:45:40
Hilary Jones wrote:
"As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins
(in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do
with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail
link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial
ground in England, one learns new things every day."
Doug here:
Not to worry! I was only thinking about how if, in this day and age, we can
have well-read, informed people being misled about something such as the
naming of a new town, then why don't "historians" realize the very same
thing could have happened five and a half centuries ago? Perhaps it's ego on
their part?
As for Edgecote battlefield, *that's* the reason we should switch all rail
traffic to suspended monorails - interferes less with the topography.
Plus monorails look really cool!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
"As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins
(in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do
with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail
link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial
ground in England, one learns new things every day."
Doug here:
Not to worry! I was only thinking about how if, in this day and age, we can
have well-read, informed people being misled about something such as the
naming of a new town, then why don't "historians" realize the very same
thing could have happened five and a half centuries ago? Perhaps it's ego on
their part?
As for Edgecote battlefield, *that's* the reason we should switch all rail
traffic to suspended monorails - interferes less with the topography.
Plus monorails look really cool!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-16 18:45:24
And engineers love them&.. : )
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Douglas Eugene Stamate
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 12:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins
(in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do
with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail
link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial
ground in England, one learns new things every day."
Doug here:
Not to worry! I was only thinking about how if, in this day and age, we can
have well-read, informed people being misled about something such as the
naming of a new town, then why don't "historians" realize the very same
thing could have happened five and a half centuries ago? Perhaps it's ego on
their part?
As for Edgecote battlefield, *that's* the reason we should switch all rail
traffic to suspended monorails - interferes less with the topography.
Plus monorails look really cool!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...<mailto:destama%40kconline.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Douglas Eugene Stamate
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 12:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins
(in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do
with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail
link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial
ground in England, one learns new things every day."
Doug here:
Not to worry! I was only thinking about how if, in this day and age, we can
have well-read, informed people being misled about something such as the
naming of a new town, then why don't "historians" realize the very same
thing could have happened five and a half centuries ago? Perhaps it's ego on
their part?
As for Edgecote battlefield, *that's* the reason we should switch all rail
traffic to suspended monorails - interferes less with the topography.
Plus monorails look really cool!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...<mailto:destama%40kconline.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Standard bearer story
2013-04-17 09:27:43
I think they're cool too. Plus you get a much better view of the countryside.
________________________________
From: Pamela Bain <pbain@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2013, 18:45
Subject: RE: Re: Standard bearer story
And engineers love them&.. : )
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Douglas Eugene Stamate
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 12:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins
(in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do
with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail
link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial
ground in England, one learns new things every day."
Doug here:
Not to worry! I was only thinking about how if, in this day and age, we can
have well-read, informed people being misled about something such as the
naming of a new town, then why don't "historians" realize the very same
thing could have happened five and a half centuries ago? Perhaps it's ego on
their part?
As for Edgecote battlefield, *that's* the reason we should switch all rail
traffic to suspended monorails - interferes less with the topography.
Plus monorails look really cool!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...<mailto:destama%40kconline.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
________________________________
From: Pamela Bain <pbain@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2013, 18:45
Subject: RE: Re: Standard bearer story
And engineers love them&.. : )
From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of Douglas Eugene Stamate
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 12:49 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
Hilary Jones wrote:
"As I've just told David, I had to write essays on the new town's origins
(in the dark ages) and that was as told by LSE. It was no doubt all to do
with radical thought. including the OU which has its campus there.
Just to cheer you even more, they're threatening to put the High Speed Rail
link through Edgcote battlefield. Apparently it's the largest Welsh burial
ground in England, one learns new things every day."
Doug here:
Not to worry! I was only thinking about how if, in this day and age, we can
have well-read, informed people being misled about something such as the
naming of a new town, then why don't "historians" realize the very same
thing could have happened five and a half centuries ago? Perhaps it's ego on
their part?
As for Edgecote battlefield, *that's* the reason we should switch all rail
traffic to suspended monorails - interferes less with the topography.
Plus monorails look really cool!
Doug
________________________________
From: Douglas Eugene Stamate <destama@...<mailto:destama%40kconline.com>>
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2013, 15:45
Subject: Re: Re: Standard bearer story
david rayner wrote:
"Milton Keynes existed as a manor of that name long before the "eponymous"
poets:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62605&strquery=milton%20keynes
In our period it was held by the Staffords of Grafton."
Doug here:
Googled MK and it appears that what has happened is that there was village
named Middleton which became Middleton le Kaynes and eventually Milton
Keynes.
*That* name was adopted when the "new city" was developed in the late
1960s - early 1970s.
So no, while noone can trace their family to the "city" of Milton Keynes in
the early 15th century as it didn't exist, they *could* trace their family
to one of the villages/manors, one of which *was* named Milton Keynes, that
are now included in the new city of Milton Keynes which appropriated the
village name for its own.
The question now is, where/how did the idea that Milton Keynes was named for
John Milton/John Maynard Keynes originate? Even though OT, if something such
as this can occur *now*, where something everyone "knows" turns out to be
false and how it spread, couldn't we use what we discover to buttress our
arguments about what "everyone knows" about Richard?
Doug
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
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