Richard in Wax

Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face. Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ? CarolD

From: Carol Darling
To:
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 2:00 AM
Subject: Richard in Wax


> Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at
> Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face.
> Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it
> again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ?
> CarolD

Ung - I think it makes him look like his mother having a bad hair day!

Trying to earn my keep around here: I just uploaded to the "Portraits" album of the Photos section a scan of a photo my mother took of the wax figure 15 years ago.

Enjoy,
Cathy

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face. Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ? CarolD
>

Yes, it does look spooky......but at least not sinister. We watched "Les Miserbles" tonight. And, I think Eddie Redmayne might make a pretty good Richard III. He certainly has the acting chips, and with darker hair could do it.

On Apr 27, 2013, at 8:00 PM, "Carol Darling" <cdarlingart1@...<mailto:cdarlingart1@...>> wrote:



Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face. Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ? CarolD

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face. Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ? CarolD
>
Carol responds:

Here's the URL, which I copied and pasted from the page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/149468920/

Sorry, but I think it makes him look fifty years old and dyspeptic--or maybe sleep-deprived from nightmares. I'm pretty sure that whoever made that image thought that he had murdered his nephews and lived with unending remorse for the rest of his life. I hope they redo the image based on the new findings (only with a better wig, hat, and brooch than the current image and more obviously blue eyes).

Carol (T)

>>>Sorry, but I think it makes him look fifty years old and dyspeptic--or maybe sleep-deprived from nightmares. I'm pretty sure that whoever made that image thought that he had murdered his nephews and lived with unending remorse for the rest of his life. I hope they redo the image based on the new findings (only with a better wig, hat, and brooch than the current image and more obviously blue eyes). Carol (T)<<<


Agreed, a smaller hat and more discreet brooch might indeed be an improvement. I don't think a slightly built, elegant man would have worn such an enormous titfer, nor would he have sported such a huge, tasteless brooch that not only threatens to bend the rim of the hat, but has a drop pearl that bangs his forehead. Such a pearl would have driven him potty, seeing it dangling constantly at the corner of his eye. Perhaps that's why he has that anxious look, he's squinting and has a headache too. If that were the case, it might not be a good time to mention strawberries. Otherwise...I wonder if that is indeed how he would have appeared in life. The face is fine-drawn and the figure is delicate, seeming to suggest a lack of strength when, scoliosis or not, he is very strong indeed . It seems about right to me. Including the fact that such clothes would definitely have disguised whatever unevenness there was in his body.

Sandra

Thank you....this has given me today's biggest laugh...:0) eileen

--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> I don’t think a slightly built, elegant man would have worn such an enormous titfer, nor would he have sported such a huge, tasteless brooch that not only threatens to bend the rim of the hat, but has a drop pearl that bangs his forehead. Such a pearl would have driven him potty, seeing it dangling constantly at the corner of his eye. Perhaps that’s why he has that anxious look, he’s squinting and has a headache too. If that were the case, it might not be a good time to mention strawberries.
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

They got his eyebrows and eyes right though.....
The reconstruction has such cross eyed look! And the bushy eyebrows are a travesty:) Can they tell how your eyebrows looked from the skull? I wonder why the artist needed that touch.....

Ishita Bandyo
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 28, 2013, at 10:40 AM, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face. Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ? CarolD
> >
> Carol responds:
>
> Here's the URL, which I copied and pasted from the page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/149468920/
>
> Sorry, but I think it makes him look fifty years old and dyspeptic--or maybe sleep-deprived from nightmares. I'm pretty sure that whoever made that image thought that he had murdered his nephews and lived with unending remorse for the rest of his life. I hope they redo the image based on the new findings (only with a better wig, hat, and brooch than the current image and more obviously blue eyes).
>
> Carol (T)
>
>

Me too!!

Ishita Bandyo
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 28, 2013, at 12:39 PM, "EileenB" <cherryripe.eileenb@...> wrote:

> Thank you....this has given me today's biggest laugh...:0) eileen
>
> --- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think a slightly built, elegant man would have worn such an enormous titfer, nor would he have sported such a huge, tasteless brooch that not only threatens to bend the rim of the hat, but has a drop pearl that bangs his forehead. Such a pearl would have driven him potty, seeing it dangling constantly at the corner of his eye. Perhaps that's why he has that anxious look, he's squinting and has a headache too. If that were the case, it might not be a good time to mention strawberries.
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

From: Ishita Bandyo
To:
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax

> The reconstruction has such cross eyed look! And the bushy eyebrows are a
> travesty:) Can they tell how your eyebrows looked from the skull?

Even if they can, his appearance in the portraits suggests he probably
plucked his eyebrows... the reproduction also has an odd skin-tone which
makes him look as if he's wearing foundation cream. Somebnody should point
out that the portraits show him with exceptionally fair, almost translucent
skin, as well as mid-brown-to-slightly-auburn, rather fluffy hair. His
eyebrows, even if hairy, would have been less overbearing because they would
have been a much lighter colour. Alook at Prince Harry and then dial the
red back a bit might help.

I am not sure whether Richard would have given in to plucking his eyebrows! Anne notwithstanding :|. As a soldier and king it would make him seem effeminate. Maybe he just had fine eyebrows and the artist the artist just accentuated them..... EdIV's eyebrows look delicate too.
Could the milk white complexion be due to over cleaning? They could have taken off the vermillion and just left the more lead based colors? The only reference to his coloring is " dark one in fair family". If that chalk white complexion was considered " dark", I don't want to know what "fair" was.....

Ishita Bandyo
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:56 PM, "Claire M Jordan" <whitehound@...> wrote:

> From: Ishita Bandyo
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax
>
> > The reconstruction has such cross eyed look! And the bushy eyebrows are a
> > travesty:) Can they tell how your eyebrows looked from the skull?
>
> Even if they can, his appearance in the portraits suggests he probably
> plucked his eyebrows... the reproduction also has an odd skin-tone which
> makes him look as if he's wearing foundation cream. Somebnody should point
> out that the portraits show him with exceptionally fair, almost translucent
> skin, as well as mid-brown-to-slightly-auburn, rather fluffy hair. His
> eyebrows, even if hairy, would have been less overbearing because they would
> have been a much lighter colour. Alook at Prince Harry and then dial the
> red back a bit might help.
>
>

From: Ishita Bandyo
To:
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax


> I am not sure whether Richard would have given in to plucking his
> eyebrows! Anne notwithstanding :|. As a soldier and king it would make him
> seem effeminate.

Only if it was an unusual thing for a man to do at that time - I'll have to
look at some other contemporary portraits, but not now because it's quarter
to two and I have to be up at six to take a rat called Jaffa to the vet.

> Could the milk white complexion be due to over cleaning? They could have
> taken off the vermillion and just left the more lead based colors?

I don't think so - there's a lot of skin-tone and veins in the fairness, and
it kind-of goes with the reddish hair. Redheads are often ultra-fair.

> The only reference to his coloring is " dark one in fair family".

Yes, but that's just Tey and it was based on her having been misled by the
apearance of the NPG portrait before it was cleaned. The varnish was so
discoloured that it made him look sallow with near-black hair. Rosemary HJ
also wrote him as dark, presumably for the same reason.

Oh. That might have been the case.


Ishita Bandyo
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 28, 2013, at 8:53 PM, "Claire M Jordan" <whitehound@...> wrote:

> From: Ishita Bandyo
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 1:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax
>
> > I am not sure whether Richard would have given in to plucking his
> > eyebrows! Anne notwithstanding :|. As a soldier and king it would make him
> > seem effeminate.
>
> Only if it was an unusual thing for a man to do at that time - I'll have to
> look at some other contemporary portraits, but not now because it's quarter
> to two and I have to be up at six to take a rat called Jaffa to the vet.
>
> > Could the milk white complexion be due to over cleaning? They could have
> > taken off the vermillion and just left the more lead based colors?
>
> I don't think so - there's a lot of skin-tone and veins in the fairness, and
> it kind-of goes with the reddish hair. Redheads are often ultra-fair.
>
> > The only reference to his coloring is " dark one in fair family".
>
> Yes, but that's just Tey and it was based on her having been misled by the
> apearance of the NPG portrait before it was cleaned. The varnish was so
> discoloured that it made him look sallow with near-black hair. Rosemary HJ
> also wrote him as dark, presumably for the same reason.
>
>

I've saw this before on Google images. To be fair, it is a good personification of the NPG portrait but, as we know now, it's nothing like the original face. It would have been made when the portrait was all the makers had to go on.

--- In , Carol Darling <cdarlingart1@...> wrote:
>
> Re; Wax image: Go to Google. Then type in: English King Richard III at Madame Tussauds in London. This site gives only one angle of the face. Keep looking and another site shows 2 angles of the face. I will find it again and let everyone know. Do you all thinks its a little spooky ? CarolD
>

It is possible that the eyebrows have faded, I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Mona Lisa once had eyebrows. Also, could the person doing the reconstruction be able to tell the shape of the eyebrows from the muscle structure? If you've ever saw anyone with their eyebrows shaved off, you can still tell where they should be.

Finally, if people are dissatisfied with the R3 reconstruction, take a look at the Robert Burns one! That's what us poor Scots have to look up to,it's no wonder I prefer English history!

--- In , Ishita Bandyo <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> I am not sure whether Richard would have given in to plucking his eyebrows! Anne notwithstanding :|. As a soldier and king it would make him seem effeminate. Maybe he just had fine eyebrows and the artist the artist just accentuated them..... EdIV's eyebrows look delicate too.
> Could the milk white complexion be due to over cleaning? They could have taken off the vermillion and just left the more lead based colors? The only reference to his coloring is " dark one in fair family". If that chalk white complexion was considered " dark", I don't want to know what "fair" was.....
>
> Ishita Bandyo
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:56 PM, "Claire M Jordan" <whitehound@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Ishita Bandyo
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax
> >
> > > The reconstruction has such cross eyed look! And the bushy eyebrows are a
> > > travesty:) Can they tell how your eyebrows looked from the skull?
> >
> > Even if they can, his appearance in the portraits suggests he probably
> > plucked his eyebrows... the reproduction also has an odd skin-tone which
> > makes him look as if he's wearing foundation cream. Somebnody should point
> > out that the portraits show him with exceptionally fair, almost translucent
> > skin, as well as mid-brown-to-slightly-auburn, rather fluffy hair. His
> > eyebrows, even if hairy, would have been less overbearing because they would
> > have been a much lighter colour. Alook at Prince Harry and then dial the
> > red back a bit might help.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

I , personally quite like the construction. Other than the said eyebrows. He might have had bushy eyebrows for all we know but since the references show skinny eyebrows, I am just puzzled what made the reconstruction artist give Richard those eyebrows.....!

Ishita Bandyo
www.ishitabandyo.com
www.facebook.com/ishitabandyofinearts
www.ishitabandyoarts.blogspot.com

On May 3, 2013, at 7:17 PM, "Ms Jones" <mhairigibbons2006@...> wrote:

> It is possible that the eyebrows have faded, I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Mona Lisa once had eyebrows. Also, could the person doing the reconstruction be able to tell the shape of the eyebrows from the muscle structure? If you've ever saw anyone with their eyebrows shaved off, you can still tell where they should be.
>
> Finally, if people are dissatisfied with the R3 reconstruction, take a look at the Robert Burns one! That's what us poor Scots have to look up to,it's no wonder I prefer English history!
>
> --- In , Ishita Bandyo <bandyoi@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am not sure whether Richard would have given in to plucking his eyebrows! Anne notwithstanding :|. As a soldier and king it would make him seem effeminate. Maybe he just had fine eyebrows and the artist the artist just accentuated them..... EdIV's eyebrows look delicate too.
> > Could the milk white complexion be due to over cleaning? They could have taken off the vermillion and just left the more lead based colors? The only reference to his coloring is " dark one in fair family". If that chalk white complexion was considered " dark", I don't want to know what "fair" was.....
> >
> > Ishita Bandyo
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Apr 28, 2013, at 7:56 PM, "Claire M Jordan" <whitehound@...> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Ishita Bandyo
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Monday, April 29, 2013 12:32 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax
> > >
> > > > The reconstruction has such cross eyed look! And the bushy eyebrows are a
> > > > travesty:) Can they tell how your eyebrows looked from the skull?
> > >
> > > Even if they can, his appearance in the portraits suggests he probably
> > > plucked his eyebrows... the reproduction also has an odd skin-tone which
> > > makes him look as if he's wearing foundation cream. Somebnody should point
> > > out that the portraits show him with exceptionally fair, almost translucent
> > > skin, as well as mid-brown-to-slightly-auburn, rather fluffy hair. His
> > > eyebrows, even if hairy, would have been less overbearing because they would
> > > have been a much lighter colour. Alook at Prince Harry and then dial the
> > > red back a bit might help.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

From: Ishita Bandyo
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Richard in Wax


> I , personally quite like the construction.

So do I, apart from the fact that it's him at about 22 not 32. I even like
the amiable-yet-faintly-cocky expression they've given him, even though we
don't know whether that was right. It's really just the colouring which is
odd - in fact personally I'd probably have preferred a monochrome
reconstruction done in terracotta or marble-white. Attempts to redo
somebody in flesh-colour and real hair like this do tend to end up looking
like dolls.

In the 1980s I went to an exhibition at Warwich Castle. There'd been some
TV programme about various monarchs, including Richard, and then the
costumes had been put onto sculptures of the wearers and put on display.
The one of richard was rather good - they all were - but the figures were
all done in plain gold so they were dressed sculptures, with no attempt to
pass as real people frozen to the spot.

> Other than the said eyebrows. He might have had bushy eyebrows for all we
> know but since the references show skinny eyebrows, I am just puzzled what
> made the reconstruction artist give Richard those eyebrows.....!

Iirc they supposedly did the reconstruction cold, without knowing who it
was, in order to see how like the portrait it would turn out. But then they
referenced the portrait at the end, to get the costume right, so you'd think
they could have applied a bit of topiary....