Pre-Contract - Solution???.

To hjnatdat, I am sure you are right.Does anything you have learned contradict the logical conclusion that Edward had, what Lady Eleanor most wanted; he had no need to promise to marry her, did he.

I don't know. I have no conclusive evidence for or against; I wasn' there. I do however believe Richard believed there to have been one. Everything points to his having been a brave and an honourable man. Even his worse detractors agree with that.



________________________________
From: ringoandstar <ringoandstar@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 29 April 2013, 10:16
Subject: Pre-Contract - Solution???.

 

To hjnatdat, I am sure you are right.Does anything you have learned contradict the logical conclusion that Edward had, what Lady Eleanor most wanted; he had no need to promise to marry her, did he.

If Eleanor wouldn't have sex with him outside marriage then he could well have married her in secret - in those days you didn't even need a priest; it was a not uncommon ploy of randy boyfriends in the days before Hardwicke's Marriage Act. Edward did the same thing later with Elizabeth Woodville, and the common belief was that he had married her because she had refused to sleep with him otherwise. Why he later announced his marriage to Elizabeth is the interesting thing - he waited several months so it may not have been a foregone conclusion. Perhaps his mistake there had been overlooking her mother's European connections.
Marie

--- In , "ringoandstar" <ringoandstar@...> wrote:
>
> To hjnatdat, I am sure you are right.Does anything you have learned contradict the logical conclusion that Edward had, what Lady Eleanor most wanted; he had no need to promise to marry her, did he.
>

Was EW pregnant by then....EoY was born 11 February....?

--- In , mariewalsh2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> If Eleanor wouldn't have sex with him outside marriage then he could well have married her in secret - in those days you didn't even need a priest; it was a not uncommon ploy of randy boyfriends in the days before Hardwicke's Marriage Act. Edward did the same thing later with Elizabeth Woodville, and the common belief was that he had married her because she had refused to sleep with him otherwise. Why he later announced his marriage to Elizabeth is the interesting thing - he waited several months so it may not have been a foregone conclusion. Perhaps his mistake there had been overlooking her mother's European connections.
> Marie
>
> --- In , "ringoandstar" <ringoandstar@> wrote:
> >
> > To hjnatdat, I am sure you are right.Does anything you have learned contradict the logical conclusion that Edward had, what Lady Eleanor most wanted; he had no need to promise to marry her, did he.
> >
>

"EileenB" wrote:
>
> Was EW pregnant by then....EoY was born 11 February....?

Carol responds:

Well, let's see. The secret May "marriage" was performed on May 1, 1464. Elizabeth of York was born February 11, 1466, more than fifteen months later. EW wouldn't have known she was pregnant with her and Edward's fourth child until about mid-July, 1465 (two months into the pregnancy) if my calculations are correct. So, I'd say definitely not unless it was another pregnancy that ended in miscarriage, a false alarm, or even a feigned pregnancy aimed at getting Edward to acknowledge EW as his wife (a very dangerous move, but she probably would not have known just how dangerous--I doubt that she knew about Eleanor at this point).

Carol, whose dates and calculations could very well be wrong

Hmmmmm...OK..Of course there has never been any doubt that Edward must have loved EW deeply...eileen

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
> "EileenB" wrote:
> >
> > Was EW pregnant by then....EoY was born 11 February....?
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Well, let's see. The secret May "marriage" was performed on May 1, 1464. Elizabeth of York was born February 11, 1466, more than fifteen months later. EW wouldn't have known she was pregnant with her and Edward's fourth child until about mid-July, 1465 (two months into the pregnancy) if my calculations are correct. So, I'd say definitely not unless it was another pregnancy that ended in miscarriage, a false alarm, or even a feigned pregnancy aimed at getting Edward to acknowledge EW as his wife (a very dangerous move, but she probably would not have known just how dangerous--I doubt that she knew about Eleanor at this point).
>
> Carol, whose dates and calculations could very well be wrong
>

Somehow I can't see the young, virile Edward IV panicking just because his latest conquest had got herself pregnant. Not if she was someone who wouldn't dare stand up to him publicly. But her mother could use her Luxembourg connections to wreak havoc with Edward's diplomatic marriage plans whether Elizabeth was pregnant or not.
And if he thought she was pregnant she might of course have been telling a little white lie; she doesn't seem to have been exactly prone to miscarriages, does she?
Marie


--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
> "EileenB" wrote:
> >
> > Was EW pregnant by then....EoY was born 11 February....?
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Well, let's see. The secret May "marriage" was performed on May 1, 1464. Elizabeth of York was born February 11, 1466, more than fifteen months later. EW wouldn't have known she was pregnant with her and Edward's fourth child until about mid-July, 1465 (two months into the pregnancy) if my calculations are correct. So, I'd say definitely not unless it was another pregnancy that ended in miscarriage, a false alarm, or even a feigned pregnancy aimed at getting Edward to acknowledge EW as his wife (a very dangerous move, but she probably would not have known just how dangerous--I doubt that she knew about Eleanor at this point).
>
> Carol, whose dates and calculations could very well be wrong
>