ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets Out His Vision

"One of the newly appointed creative directors for the Richard III visitor centre has set out his vision for how the exhibition will become an award-winning attraction."

(Per this article, finding Richard was a miracle.)

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-vision/story-18924473-detail/story.html

But if it's a miracle and the odds against finding him were so long, then why are the U of Leics admin folk telling us that one of
their old profs (who they seem to have all but ignored until last month) had "pinpointed" the site in his book they're now promoting?

Tamara





-----Original Message-----
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To: <>
Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 5:32 pm
Subject: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets Out His Vision


"One of the newly appointed creative directors for the Richard III visitor
centre has set out his vision for how the exhibition will become an
award-winning attraction."

(Per this article, finding Richard was a miracle.)

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-vision/story-18924473-detail/story.html




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi, Tamara -

Here is part of what was written in the article:

"We want to tell people about the miracle of the story," said David, who has
worked with organisations such as the Heritage Lottery Fund, National Trust
and English Heritage.

He added: "The odds of finding him were huge - he'd been buried for
500-years and survived all of the construction and building going on around
him.

"We also want to show the passion that the Richard III Society invested in
the project."

Read more:
<http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-
vision/story-18924473-detail/story.html#ixzz2Sycy1dKg>
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-v
ision/story-18924473-detail/story.html#ixzz2Sycy1dKg
Follow us: @thisisleics on Twitter
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r&u=thisisleics> |
thisisleicestershire on Facebook
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r&u=thisisleicestershire>

It is helpful to provide exact quotes and context. If you read the whole
thing, I would certainly endorse the statements wholeheartedly, because I
feel it was a miracle. That said, more people than David Baldwin had said,
"If Richard's body was never thrown into the Soar, you know, he may still be
there." And they knew the general location. But even with all that, as they
say, there was still a good chance that his body would have been destroyed
by subsequent construction in the area, as in fact, his feet and lower legs
were destroyed. But it's not just that his body happened to be mostly intact
after 500+ years. "The story" is also the tale of how the project was put
together by PL, JA-H, and the RIII Society and carried through to resounding
success.

Also, please note that, yes, ULeic is publicizing David Baldwin, who is a
retired professor formerly on their faculty, so I guess it's somewhat
understandable, but ULeic are not the people who are sponsoring the
visitors' centre, nor is it the employer of the people interviewed for the
article, who work for the Town Council. Quite different, and you can see
that they seem quite happy to give due credit to the RIII Society for the
success of the project.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of khafara@...
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:38 PM
To:
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss
Sets Out His Vision





But if it's a miracle and the odds against finding him were so long, then
why are the U of Leics admin folk telling us that one of
their old profs (who they seem to have all but ignored until last month) had
"pinpointed" the site in his book they're now promoting?

Tamara

-----Original Message-----
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...
<mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> >
To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 5:32 pm
Subject: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets
Out His Vision

"One of the newly appointed creative directors for the Richard III visitor
centre has set out his vision for how the exhibition will become an
award-winning attraction."

(Per this article, finding Richard was a miracle.)

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-v
ision/story-18924473-detail/story.html

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello Johanne!

Oh, I know -- the R3 Visitor Center folk and the ULeics folk are different people. I'm not picking on the R3 Visitor Center -- or Prof. Baldwin, for that matter. (And I
agree that it is a miracle that Richard's body managed to make it for half a millennium with only the loss of its feet.)

I just thought it ironic that the ULeics is promoting Baldwin -- and talking up his "pinpointing" Richard's location even though nobody at ULeics chose to act on his research, or even mention it until *after* Richard was found -- not just because he's one of theirs, but also seemingly as a part of their campaign to eclipse the years of hard work and research done by John Ashdown-Hill.

One of the most noteworthy, and useful, things about *The King in the Car Park* is that Philippa et al got the ULeics' archaeologists (with whom they seem to have been on good terms) on audiovisual record as stating, repeatedly, word to the effect that they never hoped to be so lucky as to find Richard -- they were just hoping they could get a good fix on Greyfriars itself. Which makes what PL and J A-H did that much more amazing.


Tamara





-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To: <>
Sent: Sat, May 11, 2013 5:11 am
Subject: RE: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets Out His Vision


Hi, Tamara -

Here is part of what was written in the article:

"We want to tell people about the miracle of the story," said David, who has
worked with organisations such as the Heritage Lottery Fund, National Trust
and English Heritage.

He added: "The odds of finding him were huge - he'd been buried for
500-years and survived all of the construction and building going on around
him.

"We also want to show the passion that the Richard III Society invested in
the project."

Read more:
<http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-
vision/story-18924473-detail/story.html#ixzz2Sycy1dKg>
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-v
ision/story-18924473-detail/story.html#ixzz2Sycy1dKg
Follow us: @thisisleics on Twitter
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r&u=thisisleics> |
thisisleicestershire on Facebook
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r&u=thisisleicestershire>

It is helpful to provide exact quotes and context. If you read the whole
thing, I would certainly endorse the statements wholeheartedly, because I
feel it was a miracle. That said, more people than David Baldwin had said,
"If Richard's body was never thrown into the Soar, you know, he may still be
there." And they knew the general location. But even with all that, as they
say, there was still a good chance that his body would have been destroyed
by subsequent construction in the area, as in fact, his feet and lower legs
were destroyed. But it's not just that his body happened to be mostly intact
after 500+ years. "The story" is also the tale of how the project was put
together by PL, JA-H, and the RIII Society and carried through to resounding
success.

Also, please note that, yes, ULeic is publicizing David Baldwin, who is a
retired professor formerly on their faculty, so I guess it's somewhat
understandable, but ULeic are not the people who are sponsoring the
visitors' centre, nor is it the employer of the people interviewed for the
article, who work for the Town Council. Quite different, and you can see
that they seem quite happy to give due credit to the RIII Society for the
success of the project.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of khafara@...
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:38 PM
To:
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss
Sets Out His Vision





But if it's a miracle and the odds against finding him were so long, then
why are the U of Leics admin folk telling us that one of
their old profs (who they seem to have all but ignored until last month) had
"pinpointed" the site in his book they're now promoting?

Tamara

-----Original Message-----
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...
<mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> >
To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 5:32 pm
Subject: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets
Out His Vision

"One of the newly appointed creative directors for the Richard III visitor
centre has set out his vision for how the exhibition will become an
award-winning attraction."

(Per this article, finding Richard was a miracle.)

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-v
ision/story-18924473-detail/story.html

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links











------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Wednesday wrote:
>
> "One of the newly appointed creative directors for the Richard III visitor centre has set out his vision for how the exhibition will become an award-winning attraction."
>
> (Per this article, finding Richard was a miracle.)
>
> http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-vision/story-18924473-detail/story.html

Carol responds:

Thanks, Weds. At least, they're crediting the R III Society (not a word about the U of Leicester). But I'm worried about having someone involved with redesigning the Tower of London as a heritage site involved in the Richard III center. Will she include a display recreating the place where the nephews were "murdered" and another of the stairs where the bones of two unidentified children, labeled as the "Princes," were found? I don't like the idea of her involvement at all.

Carol

I agree with you, Tamara. However, I pointed out the distinction, because
this crew seems at pains to acknowledge the RIII Society. (and that means PL
and JA-H, too!)



My personal belief - generosity of spirit, willingness to acknowledge the
contribution of others, consideration and even altruism actually lead to the
advance of mankind. I believe that trying to rope in something that should
belong to all of us (like a figure out of history) and make it a piece of
personal property and try to act like you only made the advance/discovery
with no help from anyone else. Well, since everyone knows the truth, in my
view it only makes them look *small* and *venal.* Someone wrote not too long
ago (not sure if it was here or on FB) that an archeologist (not with ULAS)
had remarked that he/she couldn't believe that PL and JA-H hadn't "acquired
the rights" to Richard's remains right at the beginning. Well, let me say
this about that. I presume the rights to reinter are really not rights of
ownership. Maybe I'm wrong, and that's what the person was referring to.
However, my little pea brain cannot conceive of a person being granted
actual "ownership" of a set of remains. And I don't think that was done.
That is, the license to exhume may have included the right to determine
where the remains would be reburied, but there would be no other "rights"
involved. In other words, Richard, his likeness (except things that could
fall under copyright, like current original works of art or literature),
mementoes and so on would not be in the purview of ULeics to license.
Likewise, I don't see how they could restrict the intellectual use of the
discovery, like JA-H's, Annette Carson's, and PL's use of information
relating to the project. As I've mentioned before, they were apparently not
too happy with JA-H updating his book with info on the discovery. But, as he
himself noted, he was happy to provide the information regarding the mtDNA
which they used to help prove the identity of the remains. Turnabout is fair
play, I say! Again, I believe everyone will benefit in the long run - the
current policy of ULeics seems to be short-sighted, but hopefully they will
come around before lasting damage is done. I think they owe an apology, etc.
to JA-H for starters.



Loyaulte me lie,



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of khafara@...
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 12:42 PM
To:
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss
Sets Out His Vision





Hello Johanne!

Oh, I know -- the R3 Visitor Center folk and the ULeics folk are different
people. I'm not picking on the R3 Visitor Center -- or Prof. Baldwin, for
that matter. (And I
agree that it is a miracle that Richard's body managed to make it for half a
millennium with only the loss of its feet.)

I just thought it ironic that the ULeics is promoting Baldwin -- and talking
up his "pinpointing" Richard's location even though nobody at ULeics chose
to act on his research, or even mention it until *after* Richard was found
-- not just because he's one of theirs, but also seemingly as a part of
their campaign to eclipse the years of hard work and research done by John
Ashdown-Hill.

One of the most noteworthy, and useful, things about *The King in the Car
Park* is that Philippa et al got the ULeics' archaeologists (with whom they
seem to have been on good terms) on audiovisual record as stating,
repeatedly, word to the effect that they never hoped to be so lucky as to
find Richard -- they were just hoping they could get a good fix on
Greyfriars itself. Which makes what PL and J A-H did that much more amazing.


Tamara

-----Original Message-----
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...
<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com> >
To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Sat, May 11, 2013 5:11 am
Subject: RE: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss
Sets Out His Vision

Hi, Tamara -

Here is part of what was written in the article:

"We want to tell people about the miracle of the story," said David, who has
worked with organisations such as the Heritage Lottery Fund, National Trust
and English Heritage.

He added: "The odds of finding him were huge - he'd been buried for
500-years and survived all of the construction and building going on around
him.

"We also want to show the passion that the Richard III Society invested in
the project."

Read more:
<http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-
vision/story-18924473-detail/story.html#ixzz2Sycy1dKg>
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-v
ision/story-18924473-detail/story.html#ixzz2Sycy1dKg
Follow us: @thisisleics on Twitter
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r&u=thisisleics>
&u=thisisleics> |
thisisleicestershire on Facebook
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r
<http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bPh6E6ayur4PbXacwqm_6r&u=thisisleicestershire>
&u=thisisleicestershire>

It is helpful to provide exact quotes and context. If you read the whole
thing, I would certainly endorse the statements wholeheartedly, because I
feel it was a miracle. That said, more people than David Baldwin had said,
"If Richard's body was never thrown into the Soar, you know, he may still be
there." And they knew the general location. But even with all that, as they
say, there was still a good chance that his body would have been destroyed
by subsequent construction in the area, as in fact, his feet and lower legs
were destroyed. But it's not just that his body happened to be mostly intact
after 500+ years. "The story" is also the tale of how the project was put
together by PL, JA-H, and the RIII Society and carried through to resounding
success.

Also, please note that, yes, ULeic is publicizing David Baldwin, who is a
retired professor formerly on their faculty, so I guess it's somewhat
understandable, but ULeic are not the people who are sponsoring the
visitors' centre, nor is it the employer of the people interviewed for the
article, who work for the Town Council. Quite different, and you can see
that they seem quite happy to give due credit to the RIII Society for the
success of the project.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@... <mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>

or jltournier@... <mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
khafara@... <mailto:khafara%40aol.com>
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 9:38 PM
To:
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss
Sets Out His Vision

But if it's a miracle and the odds against finding him were so long, then
why are the U of Leics admin folk telling us that one of
their old profs (who they seem to have all but ignored until last month) had
"pinpointed" the site in his book they're now promoting?

Tamara

-----Original Message-----
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...
<mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com>
<mailto:wednesday.mac%40gmail.com> >
To: <
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Fri, May 10, 2013 5:32 pm
Subject: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets
Out His Vision

"One of the newly appointed creative directors for the Richard III visitor
centre has set out his vision for how the exhibition will become an
award-winning attraction."

(Per this article, finding Richard was a miracle.)

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Richard-III-visitor-centre-boss-sets-v
ision/story-18924473-detail/story.html

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Because the university wants their old prof/their institution to shine, so that's how they spin it, while the city wants to draw tourists to their coming museum and stare down into the hole where Richard's body lay, so that's how they spin it? Like the old song says, "If you package it twice and market it right, they'll buy baloney."


--- In , khafara@... wrote:
>
> But if it's a miracle and the odds against finding him were so long, then why are the U of Leics admin folk telling us that one of
> their old profs (who they seem to have all but ignored until last month) had "pinpointed" the site in his book they're now promoting?
>
> Tamara

From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 11 May 2013, 17:38
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets Out His Vision

"Because the university wants their old prof/their institution to shine, so that's how they spin it"

Don't assume the university is one distinct entity - it's more likely they have an aggressive press office (which seems to be de rigueur for most unis these days) and their spin doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the academics.  I worked at King's College London about 12 years ago, and their press office was a vital plank in a highly ambitious capital campaign.  Their goal was to raise the profile of KCL by making their academics the first stop for the BBC/ITN for any relevant news story.  They succeeded so well that even now you see KCL staff on the news far more than those from other institutions.  But the academics, themselves, endured rather than embraced the process.

Jonathan





________________________________
From: wednesday_mc <wednesday.mac@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 11 May 2013, 17:38
Subject: Re: ARTICLE: R3 Visitor Center Boss Sets Out His Vision



 
Because the university wants their old prof/their institution to shine, so that's how they spin it, while the city wants to draw tourists to their coming museum and stare down into the hole where Richard's body lay, so that's how they spin it? Like the old song says, "If you package it twice and market it right, they'll buy baloney."

--- In , khafara@... wrote:
>
> But if it's a miracle and the odds against finding him were so long, then why are the U of Leics admin folk telling us that one of
> their old profs (who they seem to have all but ignored until last month) had "pinpointed" the site in his book they're now promoting?
>
> Tamara