appearance of Ann and EoY

I've run the Latin passage supplied by Carol (?)

". . .tripudiis vanisque mutatoriis vestium Annae, reginae, atque Dominae Elizabeth, primogenitae defuncti regis eisdem colore et forma distributis, nimis intentum est unde et populus obloqui proceresque et praelati vehementer mirari videbantur. . ."

past my Italian friend and she reckons it's saying that the clothes were of similar colour and shape, not the wearers. But she's going to show it to a friend who has fluent Latin (who is out at present) just to double-check.

Of course, you would still think that Ann and EoY were of at least vaguely similar colouring, otherwise what suited one wouldn't suit the other.

How tall was EoY? We have her funeral effigy, don't we? Would that be accurate?

Claire said:

Of course, you would still think that Ann and EoY were of at least vaguely similar colouring, otherwise what suited one wouldn't suit the other.

Liz:  I don;t think that's necessarily true.  Both brunettes and blondes, for example, can easily wear red and it looks great on both.  I'm brunette (ish - now due to my age) with fair skin and I can wear most colours except yellow, grey or lavendar.  I have blonde friends who also can't wear yellow or grey.

Claire:  How tall was EoY? We have her funeral effigy, don't we? Would that be accurate?

Liz:  I think she was pretty tall.

Anne has to be tall too if she had to wear EY's dress! That would make her much taller than Richard! Somehow I find that image of Anne towering over Richard terribly funny! I always have assumed Anne was tiny and doll like! Why did I assume such a thing?!

Ishita Bandyo
Sent from my iPad

On May 17, 2013, at 5:47 PM, liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:

>
>
> Claire said:
>
> Of course, you would still think that Ann and EoY were of at least vaguely similar colouring, otherwise what suited one wouldn't suit the other.
>
> Liz: I don;t think that's necessarily true. Both brunettes and blondes, for example, can easily wear red and it looks great on both. I'm brunette (ish - now due to my age) with fair skin and I can wear most colours except yellow, grey or lavendar. I have blonde friends who also can't wear yellow or grey.
>
> Claire: How tall was EoY? We have her funeral effigy, don't we? Would that be accurate?
>
> Liz: I think she was pretty tall.
>
>
>
>

Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the
current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under
the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be
mostly skin and eyes on view.

Regarding color choices in the fifteenth century, I wonder if they viewed
them in the same way we did: Isabel the Catholic had red-blonde hair and
green-blue eyes, with a very fair complexion. Her favorite colors to wear
were red and green together, a vibrant combination that her confessor
scolded her about (he was always scolding her about her dress and jewels.
He told her hoop skirts were immoral. She apologized, but said they were
more comfortable than dragging around in other styles, and continued to
wear them).

(Legend has it that the hoop skirt was improvised by Joana of Portugal,
very unquiet wife of Enrique IV, Isabel's half-brother, to hide an
illegitimate pregnancy while on her way to meet Enrique and defend the
legitimacy of poor Juana "la Beltraneja". No wonder Talavera didn't
approve!).

Maria
ejbronte@...

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:47 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> Claire said:
>
> Of course, you would still think that Ann and EoY were of at least vaguely
> similar colouring, otherwise what suited one wouldn't suit the other.
>
> Liz: I don;t think that's necessarily true. Both brunettes and blondes,
> for example, can easily wear red and it looks great on both. I'm brunette
> (ish - now due to my age) with fair skin and I can wear most colours except
> yellow, grey or lavendar. I have blonde friends who also can't wear yellow
> or grey.
>
> Claire: How tall was EoY? We have her funeral effigy, don't we? Would
> that be accurate?
>
> Liz: I think she was pretty tall.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Who knew how fascinating fashion was, but then, it still is!!!

On May 21, 2013, at 4:48 AM, "Maria Torres" <ejbronte@...> wrote:

> Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the
> current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under
> the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be
> mostly skin and eyes on view.
>
> Regarding color choices in the fifteenth century, I wonder if they viewed
> them in the same way we did: Isabel the Catholic had red-blonde hair and
> green-blue eyes, with a very fair complexion. Her favorite colors to wear
> were red and green together, a vibrant combination that her confessor
> scolded her about (he was always scolding her about her dress and jewels.
> He told her hoop skirts were immoral. She apologized, but said they were
> more comfortable than dragging around in other styles, and continued to
> wear them).
>
> (Legend has it that the hoop skirt was improvised by Joana of Portugal,
> very unquiet wife of Enrique IV, Isabel's half-brother, to hide an
> illegitimate pregnancy while on her way to meet Enrique and defend the
> legitimacy of poor Juana "la Beltraneja". No wonder Talavera didn't
> approve!).
>
> Maria
> ejbronte@...
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:47 PM, liz williams <
> ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Claire said:
>>
>> Of course, you would still think that Ann and EoY were of at least vaguely
>> similar colouring, otherwise what suited one wouldn't suit the other.
>>
>> Liz: I don;t think that's necessarily true. Both brunettes and blondes,
>> for example, can easily wear red and it looks great on both. I'm brunette
>> (ish - now due to my age) with fair skin and I can wear most colours except
>> yellow, grey or lavendar. I have blonde friends who also can't wear yellow
>> or grey.
>>
>> Claire: How tall was EoY? We have her funeral effigy, don't we? Would
>> that be accurate?
>>
>> Liz: I think she was pretty tall.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I think the shaven' fashion was horrible, on men and women. Not in the least flattering. A naturally balding head is fine, because it is natural, but that very high forehead, ending in thick hair, just makes me shudder. It is so severe. This has probably been gone into before, and if so I apologise for dragging it up again, but do we know how Richard wore his hair? I know it was long, but he always wears a hat in the portraits, so the hairline is concealed. Was his hair in a short, high fringe? Was it a natural hairline, simply parted down the middle? In Rous it looks like the latter. Anyone know for sure?

Sandra


From: Pamela Bain
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:55 AM
To: mailto:
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

Who knew how fascinating fashion was, but then, it still is!!!

On May 21, 2013, at 4:48 AM, "Maria Torres" <mailto:ejbronte%40gmail.com> wrote:

> Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the
> current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under
> the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be
> mostly skin and eyes on view.

From: SandraMachin
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY


> Was his hair in a short, high fringe? Was it a natural hairline, simply
> parted down the middle? In Rous it looks like the latter. Anyone know for
> sure?

I've always assumed it was a fringe, because cutting the central area of the
hair across in a fringe would prevent it from drifting into your eyes while
wearing a helmet. Think about just having a centre part, and having a lock
of hair drift in front of your eyes inside a helmet where you couldn't get
at it to push it back - although I suppose you could tie it back into a
pony-tail.

I'd say the Rous Roll picture suggests a fringe - but one which has been
shaped in a curve rather than cut straight across.

Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right. Those hats have a lot to answer for!

From: Claire M Jordan
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:11 PM
To:
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY
I'd say the Rous Roll picture suggests a fringe - but one which has been
shaped in a curve rather than cut straight across.


Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)

At least it wasn't an HV basin cut!



________________________________
From: SandraMachin <sandramachin@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013, 13:39
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY


 

Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right. Those hats have a lot to answer for!

From: Claire M Jordan
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:11 PM
To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY
I'd say the Rous Roll picture suggests a fringe - but one which has been
shaped in a curve rather than cut straight across.

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)

Ewww!

From: Hilary Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:08 PM
To:
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

At least it wasn't an HV basin cut!

From: SandraMachin
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY


> Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right.
> Those hats have a lot to answer for!

I kind of suspect that Henry's hat was concealing a bald patch - his hair
has that thinning, wispy look. I hope Richard's wasn't! I don't think the
Einstein look would suite him.

But I suppose part of the charm of the fashion for shaving the forehead, if
it applied to men as well as women, would be that your hair had to recede a
really long way before this would become noticeable as anything more than a
fashion statement.

If it helps, you could always envision him as parting his hair on one side and pushing the fringe to one side when he wasn't wearing a hat?

I wonder how much his hair curled. Was it naturally wavy? Did it go frizzy in the humidity of a Yorkshire summer? Did it turn to thick ringlets and infuriate him?

~Weds


--- In , "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right. Those hats have a lot to answer for!

Provided he didn't tie it with pretty ribbons. That might really put me off.

Just a thought, but could the way he parted his hair explain the strange short, lumpy bit on his left in the NPG portrait?

From: wednesday_mc
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:59 PM
To:
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

If it helps, you could always envision him as parting his hair on one side and pushing the fringe to one side when he wasn't wearing a hat?

I wonder how much his hair curled. Was it naturally wavy? Did it go frizzy in the humidity of a Yorkshire summer? Did it turn to thick ringlets and infuriate him?

~Weds

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right. Those hats have a lot to answer for!

Hi, Sandra!



I think Richard had pretty much a pageboy hairdo, a bit wavy and curling under toward the bottom. That's why I think you see that lumpy bit that you mention on the far side from us  it's an imperfect attempt to depict one of his locks of hair. If you look closely at the hair closest to us, you will also see locks, so the hair almost follows a scalloped pattern at the bottom.



That's my idea, anyway!



No, I don't think he tied it will colored ribbons. Richard was not Jack Sparrow, after all! Although it seems to me that men like Richard, with long hair, might have tied it back when going into battle. Just a thought  it would seem like a practical thing to do.



TTFN <smiley>



Johanne



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier



Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...



"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of SandraMachin
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:23 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY





Provided he didn't tie it with pretty ribbons. That might really put me off.

Just a thought, but could the way he parted his hair explain the strange short, lumpy bit on his left in the NPG portrait?

From: wednesday_mc
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:59 PM
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

If it helps, you could always envision him as parting his hair on one side and pushing the fringe to one side when he wasn't wearing a hat?

I wonder how much his hair curled. Was it naturally wavy? Did it go frizzy in the humidity of a Yorkshire summer? Did it turn to thick ringlets and infuriate him?

~Weds

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right. Those hats have a lot to answer for!

From: wednesday_mc
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY


> I wonder how much his hair curled. Was it naturally wavy? Did it go frizzy
> in the humidity of a Yorkshire summer? Did it turn to thick ringlets and
> infuriate him?

It certainly looks rather woolly in the portraits, with potential for
frizz - probably a lot like Princess Anne's when she was younger. He may
have really *needed* that hat because if he took it off his hair stood up
all round like a dandelion clock.

Flipping through books, I find varying examples of men's hair styles: a little fringe in front, full bangs (some framing the face, some not), and long with a plain central part and no bangs at all. Fashion being a fickle thing, what was worn one season might be outmoded the next. Everyone's guess about Richard's hair may be correct at some point or other. :-)

As for tying hair back during battle, it's my impression men wore an arming cap or coif of leather or quilted fabric under the sallet (the upper part of a typical helmet). The hair was probably just stuffed up into this close fitting hood, giving everyone "helmet head."

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Johanne Tournier <jltournier60@...>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:48 PM
Subject: Richard's hair (was RE: appearance of Ann and EoY)



 
Hi, Sandra!

I think Richard had pretty much a pageboy hairdo, a bit wavy and curling under toward the bottom. That's why I think you see that lumpy bit that you mention on the far side from us  it's an imperfect attempt to depict one of his locks of hair. If you look closely at the hair closest to us, you will also see locks, so the hair almost follows a scalloped pattern at the bottom.

That's my idea, anyway!

No, I don't think he tied it will colored ribbons. Richard was not Jack Sparrow, after all! Although it seems to me that men like Richard, with long hair, might have tied it back when going into battle. Just a thought  it would seem like a practical thing to do.

TTFN <smiley>

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...

or jltournier@...

"With God, all things are possible."

- Jesus of Nazareth

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: [mailto:] On Behalf Of SandraMachin
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:23 PM
To:
Subject: Re: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

Provided he didn't tie it with pretty ribbons. That might really put me off.

Just a thought, but could the way he parted his hair explain the strange short, lumpy bit on his left in the NPG portrait?

From: wednesday_mc
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:59 PM
To: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

If it helps, you could always envision him as parting his hair on one side and pushing the fringe to one side when he wasn't wearing a hat?

I wonder how much his hair curled. Was it naturally wavy? Did it go frizzy in the humidity of a Yorkshire summer? Did it turn to thick ringlets and infuriate him?

~Weds

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "SandraMachin" <sandramachin@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, looking at Rous again, I think the shaped fringe is probably right. Those hats have a lot to answer for!

Maria Torres wrote:
>
> Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be mostly skin and eyes on view. [snip]

Carol responds:

Of course, that description refers to the Lancastrian era, not Richard's time. I always wondered why Henry V was depicted as bald (with a hat covering only the top of his head)! His father, Bolingbroke, wears that odd red headdress (influenced by Middle Eastern fashions?) to cover the hair on his head but, unlike the next six kings (Edward V, being a child, doesn't count), he had facial hair. But by the time of Henry VI, it was evidently okay to let short hair escape your cap, and Edward IV, Richard III, and Henry VII all had shouler-length hair with no indication that the shaved any part of their head hair (unlike the women of the court, who were still plucking their foreheads--ouch!)

Carol

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Flipping through books, I find varying examples of men's hair styles: a little fringe in front, full bangs (some framing the face, some not), and long with a plain central part and no bangs at all. Fashion being a fickle thing, what was worn one season might be outmoded the next. Everyone's guess about Richard's hair may be correct at some point or other. :-) [snip]

Carol responds:

This version of Edward IV's portrait seems to show him with a center part

http://www.oneinspecyal.com/assets/images/autogen/a_Edward_IV_in_colour.jpg

which would work for Richard as well if we move his hat back half an inch.

But Anthony Woodville appears to have bangs (a fringe, as you British would say), in the picture of him presenting his book to Edward:

http://images.bridgemanart.com/cgi-bin/bridgemanImage.cgi/400wm.LAM.963160.7055475/58190.jpg

Unfortunately, Richard (standing, in blue velvet) is wearing a fur-trimmed cap, so we can't see his hairline. I think it can't be a "fringe" or it would be hard to tuck under the cap.

Carol

I notice the hair had that same little "hump of hair" on the right. Maybe they used they same hair stylist......

On May 23, 2013, at 12:46 PM, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...<mailto:justcarol67@...>> wrote:




--- In <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Flipping through books, I find varying examples of men's hair styles: a little fringe in front, full bangs (some framing the face, some not), and long with a plain central part and no bangs at all. Fashion being a fickle thing, what was worn one season might be outmoded the next. Everyone's guess about Richard's hair may be correct at some point or other. :-) [snip]

Carol responds:

This version of Edward IV's portrait seems to show him with a center part

http://www.oneinspecyal.com/assets/images/autogen/a_Edward_IV_in_colour.jpg

which would work for Richard as well if we move his hat back half an inch.

But Anthony Woodville appears to have bangs (a fringe, as you British would say), in the picture of him presenting his book to Edward:

http://images.bridgemanart.com/cgi-bin/bridgemanImage.cgi/400wm.LAM.963160.7055475/58190.jpg

Unfortunately, Richard (standing, in blue velvet) is wearing a fur-trimmed cap, so we can't see his hairline. I think it can't be a "fringe" or it would be hard to tuck under the cap.

Carol

Henry V isn't bald he has the fashionable basin cut! Mortimer points out that there is no extant portrait of Bolingbroke except his effigy. The one depicted as him isn't. Hair grew in the 1460s and of course H8 also had shoulder length hair in his youth. All very 1970s actually; in fact the young Freddie Mercury has more than an little of Richard about him (apart from the teeth).  I wonder if Richard could sing like that? :)



________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 23 May 2013, 18:14
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

 

Maria Torres wrote:
>
> Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be mostly skin and eyes on view. [snip]

Carol responds:

Of course, that description refers to the Lancastrian era, not Richard's time. I always wondered why Henry V was depicted as bald (with a hat covering only the top of his head)! His father, Bolingbroke, wears that odd red headdress (influenced by Middle Eastern fashions?) to cover the hair on his head but, unlike the next six kings (Edward V, being a child, doesn't count), he had facial hair. But by the time of Henry VI, it was evidently okay to let short hair escape your cap, and Edward IV, Richard III, and Henry VII all had shouler-length hair with no indication that the shaved any part of their head hair (unlike the women of the court, who were still plucking their foreheads--ouch!)

Carol

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality. Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see!

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Henry V isn't bald he has the fashionable basin cut! Mortimer points out that there is no extant portrait of Bolingbroke except his effigy. The one depicted as him isn't. Hair grew in the 1460s and of course H8 also had shoulder length hair in his youth. All very 1970s actually; in fact the young Freddie Mercury has more than an little of Richard about him (apart from the teeth).  I wonder if Richard could sing like that? :)
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, 23 May 2013, 18:14
> Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY
>
>  
>
> Maria Torres wrote:
> >
> > Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be mostly skin and eyes on view. [snip]
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Of course, that description refers to the Lancastrian era, not Richard's time. I always wondered why Henry V was depicted as bald (with a hat covering only the top of his head)! His father, Bolingbroke, wears that odd red headdress (influenced by Middle Eastern fashions?) to cover the hair on his head but, unlike the next six kings (Edward V, being a child, doesn't count), he had facial hair. But by the time of Henry VI, it was evidently okay to let short hair escape your cap, and Edward IV, Richard III, and Henry VII all had shouler-length hair with no indication that the shaved any part of their head hair (unlike the women of the court, who were still plucking their foreheads--ouch!)
>
> Carol
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Henry V isn't bald he has the fashionable basin cut! [snip]

Carol responds:

Really? I don't see a single strand of hair unless it's hidden under the hat, in which case, the barber must have used a saucer instead of a basin:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/King_Henry_V_from_NPG.jpg/220px-King_Henry_V_from_NPG.jpg

I'm familiar with basin haircuts, or, as we call them, soupbowl haircuts. My father and his brothers all had them as children in the 1920s. Henry V, to me, appears to have a shaved head a la Patrick Stewart.

Carol

Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Henry V isn't bald he has the fashionable basin cut! [snip]

Sandra: How can he possibly have thought it looked good? It's horrible! Ugh. One fashion statement that had better never seen the light of day. I know they all wore it, or a lot of them anyway, but that means (to me) that they all looked awful. Thank goodness for the vast improvement as the century went on.

From: Poet
To:
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY


> Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no
> escape from reality. Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see ...

... urban Leicester, and Jo Appleby with a pick and no hand/eye coordination
...

Silly question but I have to ask: did Richard have bangs or just regular side/middle parted hair?

Ishita Bandyo
Sent from my iPad

On May 23, 2013, at 1:14 PM, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:

> Maria Torres wrote:
> >
> > Also remember what GB Shaw, in his _Saint Joan_ describes as "...*the current fashion of shaving closely, and hiding every scrap of hair under the headcovering or headdress, both by women and men..." *so it would be mostly skin and eyes on view. [snip]
>
> Carol responds:
>
> Of course, that description refers to the Lancastrian era, not Richard's time. I always wondered why Henry V was depicted as bald (with a hat covering only the top of his head)! His father, Bolingbroke, wears that odd red headdress (influenced by Middle Eastern fashions?) to cover the hair on his head but, unlike the next six kings (Edward V, being a child, doesn't count), he had facial hair. But by the time of Henry VI, it was evidently okay to let short hair escape your cap, and Edward IV, Richard III, and Henry VII all had shouler-length hair with no indication that the shaved any part of their head hair (unlike the women of the court, who were still plucking their foreheads--ouch!)
>
> Carol
>
>

Hi All

Posting this for your information.

Jac

**********************

The Home Page of the Society's website has been re-designed and the
web team would love you to take a look. www.richardiii.net

The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
Queen's Scribe, Andrew Jamieson, and there are links to details of the
associated merchandise which will be known as the Crested image'
range. There are also links to  a new and beautiful musical composition
by Robert Draper which was inspired by the Greyfriars dig.
 
As you are all aware there is a great deal going on at the moment in
terms of news and events about King Richard both within the Society
 and externally so we will endeavour to keep you as up to date as
possible. Please visit the website often and see what events and news
are currently being featured.
 
We are also working on phase two of the website which will include some
further articles and information about King Richard, a new section on
the Wars of the Roses and much more.



Jacqui Emerson
Branches and Groups Liaison Officer
The Richard III Society

I like it a lot....just having my first cup of coffee on a rainy Saturday morning. I will peruse today.
Many thanks from a new member,
Pamela

On May 25, 2013, at 7:44 AM, "jacqui" <jacqui@...<mailto:jacqui@...>> wrote:



Hi All

Posting this for your information.

Jac

**********************

The Home Page of the Societyýs website has been re-designed and the
web team would love you to take a look. www.richardiii.net<http://www.richardiii.net>

The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
Queenýs Scribe, Andrew Jamieson, and there are links to details of the
associated merchandise which will be known as the ýCrested imageý
range. There are also links to a new and beautiful musical composition
by Robert Draper which was inspired by the Greyfriars dig.

As you are all aware there is a great deal going on at the moment in
terms of news and events about King Richard both within the Society
and externally so we will endeavour to keep you as up to date as
possible. Please visit the website often and see what events and news
are currently being featured.

We are also working on phase two of the website which will include some
further articles and information about King Richard, a new section on
the Wars of the Roses and much more.

Jacqui Emerson
Branches and Groups Liaison Officer
The Richard III Society

Hi, Pamela!

Ah yes, you're a couple hours behind me (I'm Atlantic time). I've been up
for a while and am working on my second cup. :-)

So - taking a quick look over the main page and a couple of the back pages,
especially the detail of the Graham Jamieson illustration and info on Graham
Turner's new close-up painting of RIII at Bosworth. WOW! They are gorgeous,
and I hope I will be able to get both of them. (But postage is so expensive
to North America from the UK!)

I also took a quick look at the response to the Leicester Cathedral
architects' brief, though I had seen it before and think it's excellent. I
assume that "no news is good news" on this front and that, since no one has
offered to return my small donation to the cost of the tomb, that giving
Richard the table tomb he deserves is still "on the table"? ;-)

I hope the Society will let us know if there is anything *constructive* we
can do to enhance the chance of the Cathedral agreeing to the 3D tomb
design. Some people have suggested that *lowering* the design might be
effective, but I think the best thing is to locate Richard's tomb in the
existing side chapel of the Cathedral, where it and visitors to the tomb
would not intrude on the Cathedral services and other activities.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...
or jltournier@...

"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Pamela Bain
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:45 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: R3 Society's updated Home Page

I like it a lot....just having my first cup of coffee on a rainy Saturday
morning. I will peruse today.
Many thanks from a new member,
Pamela

On May 25, 2013, at 7:44 AM, "jacqui"
<jacqui@...<mailto:jacqui@...>> wrote:



Hi All

Posting this for your information.

Jac

**********************

The Home Page of the Society's website has been re-designed and the web team
would love you to take a look. www.richardiii.net<http://www.richardiii.net>

The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the Queen's
Scribe, Andrew Jamieson, and there are links to details of the associated
merchandise which will be known as the 'Crested image'
range. There are also links to a new and beautiful musical composition by
Robert Draper which was inspired by the Greyfriars dig.

As you are all aware there is a great deal going on at the moment in terms
of news and events about King Richard both within the Society and
externally so we will endeavour to keep you as up to date as possible.
Please visit the website often and see what events and news are currently
being featured.

We are also working on phase two of the website which will include some
further articles and information about King Richard, a new section on the
Wars of the Roses and much more.

Jacqui Emerson
Branches and Groups Liaison Officer
The Richard III Society








------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Agreed completely....now on my second cup. Graham Turner's paintings are amazing. I am so glad we have this better glimpse of what is happening.

On May 25, 2013, at 9:20 AM, "Johanne Tournier" <jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60@...>> wrote:



Hi, Pamela!

Ah yes, you're a couple hours behind me (I'm Atlantic time). I've been up
for a while and am working on my second cup. :-)

So - taking a quick look over the main page and a couple of the back pages,
especially the detail of the Graham Jamieson illustration and info on Graham
Turner's new close-up painting of RIII at Bosworth. WOW! They are gorgeous,
and I hope I will be able to get both of them. (But postage is so expensive
to North America from the UK!)

I also took a quick look at the response to the Leicester Cathedral
architects' brief, though I had seen it before and think it's excellent. I
assume that "no news is good news" on this front and that, since no one has
offered to return my small donation to the cost of the tomb, that giving
Richard the table tomb he deserves is still "on the table"? ;-)

I hope the Society will let us know if there is anything *constructive* we
can do to enhance the chance of the Cathedral agreeing to the 3D tomb
design. Some people have suggested that *lowering* the design might be
effective, but I think the best thing is to locate Richard's tomb in the
existing side chapel of the Cathedral, where it and visitors to the tomb
would not intrude on the Cathedral services and other activities.

Loyaulte me lie,

Johanne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johanne L. Tournier

Email - jltournier60@...<mailto:jltournier60%40hotmail.com>
or jltournier@...<mailto:jltournier%40xcountry.tv>

"With God, all things are possible."
- Jesus of Nazareth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
From: <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Pamela Bain
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:45 AM
To: <<mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>>
Subject: Re: R3 Society's updated Home Page

I like it a lot....just having my first cup of coffee on a rainy Saturday
morning. I will peruse today.
Many thanks from a new member,
Pamela

On May 25, 2013, at 7:44 AM, "jacqui"
<jacqui@...<mailto:jacqui%40raefell.co.uk><mailto:jacqui@...<mailto:jacqui%40raefell.co.uk>>> wrote:

Hi All

Posting this for your information.

Jac

**********************

The Home Page of the Society's website has been re-designed and the web team
would love you to take a look. www.richardiii.net<http://www.richardiii.net><http://www.richardiii.net>

The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the Queen's
Scribe, Andrew Jamieson, and there are links to details of the associated
merchandise which will be known as the 'Crested image'
range. There are also links to a new and beautiful musical composition by
Robert Draper which was inspired by the Greyfriars dig.

As you are all aware there is a great deal going on at the moment in terms
of news and events about King Richard both within the Society and
externally so we will endeavour to keep you as up to date as possible.
Please visit the website often and see what events and news are currently
being featured.

We are also working on phase two of the website which will include some
further articles and information about King Richard, a new section on the
Wars of the Roses and much more.

Jacqui Emerson
Branches and Groups Liaison Officer
The Richard III Society



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Jac wrote:
> The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
> Queen’s Scribe, Andrew Jamieson, [snip]

Carol responds:

Are you referring to the thumbnail of a frowning Richard with a pointy, jutting jaw? Sorry, but I prefer the restoration! (Maybe the Queen's scribe is a Tudorite?)

Carol

Hi Jac....one little question..I cannot find that most excellent article by Helen Maurer "Whodunit" which Im positive was on the old website. If my memory serves me correct will and that is the case will it be added on at some stage. I was going to post a message about it on here but alas, couldnt find it...thank you Eileen

--- In , jacqui <jacqui@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All
>
> Posting this for your information.
>
> Jac
>
> **********************
>
> The Home Page of the Society’s website has been re-designed and the
> web team would love you to take a look. www.richardiii.net
>
> The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
> Queen’s Scribe, Andrew Jamieson, and there are links to details of the
> associated merchandise which will be known as the ‘Crested image’
> range. There are also links to  a new and beautiful musical composition
> by Robert Draper which was inspired by the Greyfriars dig.
>  
> As you are all aware there is a great deal going on at the moment in
> terms of news and events about King Richard both within the Society
>  and externally so we will endeavour to keep you as up to date as
> possible. Please visit the website often and see what events and news
> are currently being featured.
>  
> We are also working on phase two of the website which will include some
> further articles and information about King Richard, a new section on
> the Wars of the Roses and much more.
>
>
>
> Jacqui Emerson
> Branches and Groups Liaison Officer
> The Richard III Society
>

I think we decided he has whatever someone wants him to have, as the hairstyles of the day allow fringing (bangs) and not fringing. We also decided he's not balding under there. :)

~Weds


--- In , Ishita Bandyo <bandyoi@...> wrote:
>
> Silly question but I have to ask: did Richard have bangs or just regular side/middle parted hair?

From: jacqui
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:42 PM
Subject: R3 Society's updated Home Page


> The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
Queen's Scribe, Andrew Jamieson,

Complete I see with a very trendy pet micropig....

>> The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
>Queen's Scribe, Andrew Jamieson,
>
>Complete I see with a very trendy pet micropig....

*** I didn't notice him Claire - not sure that I like him:(

Jac

Eileen says

>Hi Jac....one little question..I cannot find that most excellent
>article by Helen Maurer "Whodunit" which Im positive was on the old
>website. If my memory serves me correct will and that is the case will
>it be added on at some stage.

*** Can you remember the section it was in? I can't remember it but
.....?

Jac

From: jacqui
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: R3 Society's updated Home Page


>> The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
>Queen's Scribe, Andrew Jamieson,
>
>Complete I see with a very trendy pet micropig....

> *** I didn't notice him Claire - not sure that I like him:(

It's a strange decision, to put the boar into the painting as an apparently
live animal instead of a badge, and then make it tiny, instead of the
about-Labrador-size it ought to be.

I don't go a bundle on the horse's tail, either - it doesn't look as though
it has a bone in it. A horse's tail, for those who've never thought about
it, is much the same as a dog's tail except that it usually curves slightly
downward and it has really long hair hanging down from it all the way along.
It's not just a hank of hair growing out of the horse's bum, which is what
this looks like.

Awww... he's kind of cute...if baby boars can be cute. Upon seeing the little thing, I remembered a friend telling me a few years back, "Podiatrists love pot-bellied pigs. They stomp on their owners' arches and make lots of money for the foot doctor."

Richard's sekrit weapon was obviously his trusty sidekick, White Piggy.

What made me laugh was the divot in Richard's lower back and his terrible riding technique. The conformation of his mount isn't all that great, either. Eh, could be worse. Could look like Rocinante (Don Quixote's hideous beast).

But the heraldry is gorgeous. And the botanicals.

~Weds

--- In , jacqui <jacqui@...> wrote:
>
> >> The Home Page features a new illustration of King Richard by the
> >Queen’s Scribe, Andrew Jamieson,
> >
> >Complete I see with a very trendy pet micropig....
>
> *** I didn't notice him Claire - not sure that I like him:(
>
> Jac
>

From: wednesday_mc
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: R3 Society's updated Home Page


> The conformation of his mount isn't all that great, either.

Neither is Richard's - his lower leg is too short and his foot only about
half the size it should be.

Clearly the artist has an access to another 16th century source of which we do not yet know a thing!

From: Claire M Jordan
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:00 AM
To:
Subject: Re: R3 Society's updated Home Page

> The conformation of his mount isn't all that great, either.

Neither is Richard's - his lower leg is too short and his foot only about
half the size it should be.

Perhaps we should allow him artistic license!! The colours are stunning
though. I suppose piggy could be viewed as a talisman, I wish he was
bigger though as someone said (apols can't remember who it was)

Jac


SandraMachin says
>Clearly the artist has an access to another 16th century source of
>which we do not yet know a thing!
>
>From: Claire M Jordan
>> The conformation of his mount isn't all that great, either.
>
>Neither is Richard's - his lower leg is too short and his foot only about
>half the size it should be.

--

'He had thick brown hair, cut short at the sides and the back and hazel eyes.' Ian Mortimer 'Henry V's Year of Glory'. That's his hair, not a hat just badly painted. And he is of course sideways because his face is disfigured by an arrow wound on the other side.


________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Friday, 24 May 2013, 21:00
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

 


Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Henry V isn't bald he has the fashionable basin cut! [snip]

Carol responds:

Really? I don't see a single strand of hair unless it's hidden under the hat, in which case, the barber must have used a saucer instead of a basin:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/King_Henry_V_from_NPG.jpg/220px-King_Henry_V_from_NPG.jpg

I'm familiar with basin haircuts, or, as we call them, soupbowl haircuts. My father and his brothers all had them as children in the 1920s. Henry V, to me, appears to have a shaved head a la Patrick Stewart.

Carol

Jac...sorry cannot remember where on the Society's page I saw the article...but it was blooming good...possibly under 'The Controversy'.such a long time ago possibly when I first joined 2008..I have been trying to google it but no luck...Im sure I downloaded it but where the heck did I put it? eileen

--- In , jacqui <jacqui@...> wrote:
>
>
> Perhaps we should allow him artistic license!! The colours are stunning
> though. I suppose piggy could be viewed as a talisman, I wish he was
> bigger though as someone said (apols can't remember who it was)
>
> Jac
>
>
> SandraMachin says
> >Clearly the artist has an access to another 16th century source of
> >which we do not yet know a thing!
> >
> >From: Claire M Jordan
> >> The conformation of his mount isn't all that great, either.
> >
> >Neither is Richard's - his lower leg is too short and his foot only about
> >half the size it should be.
>
> --
>

>Jac...sorry cannot remember where on the Society's page I saw the
>article...but it was blooming good...possibly under 'The
>Controversy'.such a long time ago possibly when I first joined 2008..I
>have been trying to google it but no luck...Im sure I downloaded it but
>where the heck did I put it? eileen

*** It was published in The Ricardian vol 8 111, & vol 9 112 - 1990,
Eileen. If you haven't got it yourself, you can borrow past copies from
Marie if its classed as papers or Keith Horry if is it classed as a non
fiction book. Marie do you hold The Ricardian?

Jac

It's a highly stylised image and I think it's rather gorgeous.  In fact, I was going to order the print but I see the link to the shop is down again...

Jonathan




________________________________
From: jacqui <jacqui@...>
To:
Sent: Sunday, 26 May 2013, 12:06
Subject: Re: R3 Society's updated Home Page



 

Perhaps we should allow him artistic license!! The colours are stunning
though. I suppose piggy could be viewed as a talisman, I wish he was
bigger though as someone said (apols can't remember who it was)

Jac

SandraMachin says
>Clearly the artist has an access to another 16th century source of
>which we do not yet know a thing!
>
>From: Claire M Jordan
>> The conformation of his mount isn't all that great, either.
>
>Neither is Richard's - his lower leg is too short and his foot only about
>half the size it should be.

--

Oh! ..thanks Jac....I dont have that particular Ricardian as I read it online...Would be good if its one of the back copies that you can still buy...

PS just bought the Harleian Manuscripts from the Society...so reasonably priced....will keep me occupied for eons...Eileen

--- In , jacqui <jacqui@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Jac...sorry cannot remember where on the Society's page I saw the
> >article...but it was blooming good...possibly under 'The
> >Controversy'.such a long time ago possibly when I first joined 2008..I
> >have been trying to google it but no luck...Im sure I downloaded it but
> >where the heck did I put it? eileen
>
> *** It was published in The Ricardian vol 8 111, & vol 9 112 - 1990,
> Eileen. If you haven't got it yourself, you can borrow past copies from
> Marie if its classed as papers or Keith Horry if is it classed as a non
> fiction book. Marie do you hold The Ricardian?
>
> Jac
>

>Oh! ..thanks Jac....I dont have that particular Ricardian as I read it
>online...Would be good if its one of the back copies that you can still
>buy...

*** I'm not sure what copies are available but as Jonathan says the
links down atm. The shop is being updated, so I'm not sure when it will
be live again. Best advice is to keep trying it!
>
>PS just bought the Harleian Manuscripts from the Society...so
>reasonably priced....will keep me occupied for eons...Eileen

*** It is too! I bought them a couple of years ago - had great fun
looking through. Great for reference too.

Jac
--

OK Jac......thanks Eileen

--- In , jacqui <jacqui@...> wrote:
>
>
> >Oh! ..thanks Jac....I dont have that particular Ricardian as I read it
> >online...Would be good if its one of the back copies that you can still
> >buy...
>
> *** I'm not sure what copies are available but as Jonathan says the
> links down atm. The shop is being updated, so I'm not sure when it will
> be live again. Best advice is to keep trying it!
> >
> >PS just bought the Harleian Manuscripts from the Society...so
> >reasonably priced....will keep me occupied for eons...Eileen
>
> *** It is too! I bought them a couple of years ago - had great fun
> looking through. Great for reference too.
>
> Jac
> --
>

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> 'He had thick brown hair, cut short at the sides and the back and hazel eyes.' Ian Mortimer 'Henry V's Year of Glory'. That's his hair, not a hat just badly painted. And he is of course sideways because his face is disfigured by an arrow wound on the other side.

Carol responds:

That floppy hat thing is hair? Are you sure? It's painted solidly and perfectly straight like a hem rather than a haircut, and look how it sticks out in the back. To me it looks a lot like his son Henry VI's hat but with the brim turned down.

Are you sure that Mortimer isn't mistaken? Do we have any contemporary descriptions of HV? (Hat or hair, it's ghastly. No wonder his son grew out his little reddish curls, which appear beneath a dark hat.)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg/220px-King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg

And all the subsequent kings (ignoring queens and Edward V) wore hats for their portraits until Charles I.

Here's a true soupbowl (basin) haircut for comparison, only you'll have to imagine the sideburn trimmed off:

http://marinasleeps.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wise-guy.jpg

(And, no, I'm not comparing Henry V to Moe of the Three Stooges, only Henry's hat--I'm sure it's a hat--to Moe's hair.)

Carol

I read somewhere a lifetime ago that H5's haircut was suited to wearing a helmet.If you go to Wikipedia & look up his brother John of Lancaster 1st Duke of Bedford (I think that's correct) you'll see on the right an illumination from his Bedford Hours. It shows Bedford kneeling before St George who has an attendant / herald behind him & all 3 have the same martial hairstyle.

Jan.



Sent from my iPad

On 27 May 2013, at 16:46, "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:

>
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> >
> > 'He had thick brown hair, cut short at the sides and the back and hazel eyes.' Ian Mortimer 'Henry V's Year of Glory'. That's his hair, not a hat just badly painted. And he is of course sideways because his face is disfigured by an arrow wound on the other side.
>
> Carol responds:
>
> That floppy hat thing is hair? Are you sure? It's painted solidly and perfectly straight like a hem rather than a haircut, and look how it sticks out in the back. To me it looks a lot like his son Henry VI's hat but with the brim turned down.
>
> Are you sure that Mortimer isn't mistaken? Do we have any contemporary descriptions of HV? (Hat or hair, it's ghastly. No wonder his son grew out his little reddish curls, which appear beneath a dark hat.)
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg/220px-King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg
>
> And all the subsequent kings (ignoring queens and Edward V) wore hats for their portraits until Charles I.
>
> Here's a true soupbowl (basin) haircut for comparison, only you'll have to imagine the sideburn trimmed off:
>
> http://marinasleeps.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wise-guy.jpg
>
> (And, no, I'm not comparing Henry V to Moe of the Three Stooges, only Henry's hat--I'm sure it's a hat--to Moe's hair.)
>
> Carol
>
>

Bad painter. I'm sure there are some drawings of his brother John of Bedford with a similar haircut. I'll try to look them out. Just think they anticipated the Beatles by over 500 years :) 



________________________________
From: justcarol67 <justcarol67@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 27 May 2013, 16:46
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

 



--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> 'He had thick brown hair, cut short at the sides and the back and hazel eyes.' Ian Mortimer 'Henry V's Year of Glory'. That's his hair, not a hat just badly painted. And he is of course sideways because his face is disfigured by an arrow wound on the other side.

Carol responds:

That floppy hat thing is hair? Are you sure? It's painted solidly and perfectly straight like a hem rather than a haircut, and look how it sticks out in the back. To me it looks a lot like his son Henry VI's hat but with the brim turned down.

Are you sure that Mortimer isn't mistaken? Do we have any contemporary descriptions of HV? (Hat or hair, it's ghastly. No wonder his son grew out his little reddish curls, which appear beneath a dark hat.)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg/220px-King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg

And all the subsequent kings (ignoring queens and Edward V) wore hats for their portraits until Charles I.

Here's a true soupbowl (basin) haircut for comparison, only you'll have to imagine the sideburn trimmed off:

http://marinasleeps.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wise-guy.jpg

(And, no, I'm not comparing Henry V to Moe of the Three Stooges, only Henry's hat--I'm sure it's a hat--to Moe's hair.)

Carol

Thanks Jan - that's the one.



________________________________
From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Monday, 27 May 2013, 19:17
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY


 

I read somewhere a lifetime ago that H5's haircut was suited to wearing a helmet.If you go to Wikipedia & look up his brother John of Lancaster 1st Duke of Bedford (I think that's correct) you'll see on the right an illumination from his Bedford Hours. It shows Bedford kneeling before St George who has an attendant / herald behind him & all 3 have the same martial hairstyle.

Jan.

Sent from my iPad

On 27 May 2013, at 16:46, "justcarol67" <mailto:justcarol67%40yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
> >
> > 'He had thick brown hair, cut short at the sides and the back and hazel eyes.' Ian Mortimer 'Henry V's Year of Glory'. That's his hair, not a hat just badly painted. And he is of course sideways because his face is disfigured by an arrow wound on the other side.
>
> Carol responds:
>
> That floppy hat thing is hair? Are you sure? It's painted solidly and perfectly straight like a hem rather than a haircut, and look how it sticks out in the back. To me it looks a lot like his son Henry VI's hat but with the brim turned down.
>
> Are you sure that Mortimer isn't mistaken? Do we have any contemporary descriptions of HV? (Hat or hair, it's ghastly. No wonder his son grew out his little reddish curls, which appear beneath a dark hat.)
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg/220px-King_Henry_VI_from_NPG_%282%29.jpg
>
> And all the subsequent kings (ignoring queens and Edward V) wore hats for their portraits until Charles I.
>
> Here's a true soupbowl (basin) haircut for comparison, only you'll have to imagine the sideburn trimmed off:
>
> http://marinasleeps.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/wise-guy.jpg
>
> (And, no, I'm not comparing Henry V to Moe of the Three Stooges, only Henry's hat--I'm sure it's a hat--to Moe's hair.)
>
> Carol
>
>

"EileenB" wrote:
>
> Oh! ..thanks Jac....I dont have that particular Ricardian as I read it online...Would be good if its one of the back copies that you can still buy... [snip}

Carol responds:

The Ricardians are available online? All I can find is the index from the main site and the Ricardian Registers (not at all the same thing) on the American RIII site.

Carol

--- In , Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...> wrote:
>
> I read somewhere a lifetime ago that H5's haircut was suited to wearing a helmet.If you go to Wikipedia & look up his brother John of Lancaster 1st Duke of Bedford (I think that's correct) you'll see on the right an illumination from his Bedford Hours. It shows Bedford kneeling before St George who has an attendant / herald behind him & all 3 have the same martial hairstyle.

Carol responds:

This one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John,_Duke_of_Bedford_%28detail%29_-_British_Library_Add_MS_18850_f256v.jpg

I don't know about the attendant, who does seem to have short hair, but the saint and Bedford look like they're wearing hats to me. Bedford's is identical to Henry's in the other picture. The saint's hat has a jeweled decoration at top center. And here, Bedford appears to be wearing a rug! (Either this artist has exaggerated his nose or the other one has reduced it. I thought "warts and all" came in with Cromwell.)

http://www.shakespeareandhistory.com/resources/Historical_Figures/John%20of%20Lancaster.jpg

Either way, it's an ugly look. No wonder the next generation rejected it.

Carol

Hi Carol..no..I meant that I read the article, Whodunnit by Helen Maurer, on line...eileen

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
> "EileenB" wrote:
> >
> > Oh! ..thanks Jac....I dont have that particular Ricardian as I read it online...Would be good if its one of the back copies that you can still buy... [snip}
>
> Carol responds:
>
> The Ricardians are available online? All I can find is the index from the main site and the Ricardian Registers (not at all the same thing) on the American RIII site.
>
> Carol
>

Then it was revived in the late 1980s/early 1990s by the 'baggy' bands. Check out the Inspiral Carpets!

http://www.last.fm/music/Inspiral+Carpets

--- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In , Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@> wrote:
> >
> > I read somewhere a lifetime ago that H5's haircut was suited to wearing a helmet.If you go to Wikipedia & look up his brother John of Lancaster 1st Duke of Bedford (I think that's correct) you'll see on the right an illumination from his Bedford Hours. It shows Bedford kneeling before St George who has an attendant / herald behind him & all 3 have the same martial hairstyle.
>
> Carol responds:
>
> This one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John,_Duke_of_Bedford_%28detail%29_-_British_Library_Add_MS_18850_f256v.jpg
>
> I don't know about the attendant, who does seem to have short hair, but the saint and Bedford look like they're wearing hats to me. Bedford's is identical to Henry's in the other picture. The saint's hat has a jeweled decoration at top center. And here, Bedford appears to be wearing a rug! (Either this artist has exaggerated his nose or the other one has reduced it. I thought "warts and all" came in with Cromwell.)
>
> http://www.shakespeareandhistory.com/resources/Historical_Figures/John%20of%20Lancaster.jpg
>
> Either way, it's an ugly look. No wonder the next generation rejected it.
>
> Carol
>

--- In , "Ms Jones" <mhairigibbons2006@...> wrote:
>
> Then it was revived in the late 1980s/early 1990s by the 'baggy' bands. Check out the Inspiral Carpets!
>
> http://www.last.fm/music/Inspiral+Carpets
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I read somewhere a lifetime ago that H5's haircut was suited to wearing a helmet.If you go to Wikipedia & look up his brother John of Lancaster 1st Duke of Bedford (I think that's correct) you'll see on the right an illumination from his Bedford Hours. It shows Bedford kneeling before St George who has an attendant / herald behind him & all 3 have the same martial hairstyle.
> >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > This one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John,_Duke_of_Bedford_%28detail%29_-_British_Library_Add_MS_18850_f256v.jpg
> >
> > I don't know about the attendant, who does seem to have short hair, but the saint and Bedford look like they're wearing hats to me. Bedford's is identical to Henry's in the other picture. The saint's hat has a jeweled decoration at top center. And here, Bedford appears to be wearing a rug! (Either this artist has exaggerated his nose or the other one has reduced it. I thought "warts and all" came in with Cromwell.)
> >
> > http://www.shakespeareandhistory.com/resources/Historical_Figures/John%20of%20Lancaster.jpg
> >
> > Either way, it's an ugly look.


It is hair, I'm quite sure, because it would have been just too rude of Bedford to have been kneeling in front of a heavenly body with his hat on. This isn't the same as the pudding-basin cut of more recent times; it was really short, with quite a bit of shaving involved. I guess at the time it seemed cool because it was a military look - ie it enabled men to put their helms on without having to put their hair in a bun. But yes, hideous.
Marie

I think you've clinched it Marie!



________________________________
From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2013, 0:41
Subject: Re: appearance of Ann and EoY

 



--- In , "Ms Jones" <mhairigibbons2006@...> wrote:
>
> Then it was revived in the late 1980s/early 1990s by the 'baggy' bands. Check out the Inspiral Carpets!
>
> http://www.last.fm/music/Inspiral+Carpets
>
> --- In , "justcarol67" <justcarol67@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In , Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I read somewhere a lifetime ago that H5's haircut was suited to wearing a helmet.If you go to Wikipedia & look up his brother John of Lancaster 1st Duke of Bedford (I think that's correct) you'll see on the right an illumination from his Bedford Hours. It shows Bedford kneeling before St George who has an attendant / herald behind him & all 3 have the same martial hairstyle.
> >
> > Carol responds:
> >
> > This one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John,_Duke_of_Bedford_%28detail%29_-_British_Library_Add_MS_18850_f256v.jpg
> >
> > I don't know about the attendant, who does seem to have short hair, but the saint and Bedford look like they're wearing hats to me. Bedford's is identical to Henry's in the other picture. The saint's hat has a jeweled decoration at top center. And here, Bedford appears to be wearing a rug! (Either this artist has exaggerated his nose or the other one has reduced it. I thought "warts and all" came in with Cromwell.)
> >
> > http://www.shakespeareandhistory.com/resources/Historical_Figures/John%20of%20Lancaster.jpg
> >
> > Either way, it's an ugly look.

It is hair, I'm quite sure, because it would have been just too rude of Bedford to have been kneeling in front of a heavenly body with his hat on. This isn't the same as the pudding-basin cut of more recent times; it was really short, with quite a bit of shaving involved. I guess at the time it seemed cool because it was a military look - ie it enabled men to put their helms on without having to put their hair in a bun. But yes, hideous.
Marie