Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
Elaine

Ah so it isn't about her other book that she wrote with Badlwin and Michael Jones about the women of the WOTR? Is she saving that one up? She got panned for her section on Jacquetta as 'poor history' (look at amazon reviews) whilst Baldwin and particularly Jones, get high praise for their sections on Cis and MB. I do hope she's not going to make a whole new career out of this. If so, I can't wait for her to get going on EOY and for Starkey to wade in! 



________________________________
From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 0:05
Subject: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 

PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
Elaine

Next weekend the BBC are treating us to David Starkey's "Monarchy and Music".

Apparently, without the Royals we wouldn't have any music; as if we didn't already know how wonderful they are!

Personally, I'm getting severely fed up with the BBCs ever more prodigious output of Royal pornography.

As a republican it would be nice if, just now and again, there was a single program taking the opposite point of view. Especially since we're all forced to fund the corporation if we like its output or not. But then, there are too many knighthoods and peerages at stake; another example of how the existence of the monarchy corrupts everything it touches.

--- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@...> wrote:
>
> PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> Elaine
>

Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
musicians.
Paul
Salut et Fraternité to you David!

On 13/07/2013 21:28, davidarayner wrote:
> Next weekend the BBC are treating us to David Starkey's "Monarchy and Music".
>
> Apparently, without the Royals we wouldn't have any music; as if we didn't already know how wonderful they are!
>
> Personally, I'm getting severely fed up with the BBCs ever more prodigious output of Royal pornography.
>
> As a republican it would be nice if, just now and again, there was a single program taking the opposite point of view. Especially since we're all forced to fund the corporation if we like its output or not. But then, there are too many knighthoods and peerages at stake; another example of how the existence of the monarchy corrupts everything it touches.
>
> --- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@...> wrote:
>> PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
>> Elaine
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
Richard Liveth Yet!

As a non-Republican I am severely fed up with all the Tudor pornography.  Do they not realise there were several other royal "dynasties" that ruled this country?
 
 


________________________________
From: davidarayner <theblackprussian@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 21:28
Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 
Next weekend the BBC are treating us to David Starkey's "Monarchy and Music".

Apparently, without the Royals we wouldn't have any music; as if we didn't already know how wonderful they are!

Personally, I'm getting severely fed up with the BBCs ever more prodigious output of Royal pornography.

As a republican it would be nice if, just now and again, there was a single program taking the opposite point of view. Especially since we're all forced to fund the corporation if we like its output or not. But then, there are too many knighthoods and peerages at stake; another example of how the existence of the monarchy corrupts everything it touches.

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@...> wrote:
>
> PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> Elaine
>

Me too Liz. Our present Queen has done a great job despite being descended from the Tudors. Starkey seems to think history began in 1485 and ended in 1603.


--- In , liz williams <ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:
>
> As a non-Republican I am severely fed up with all the Tudor pornography.  Do they not realise there were several other royal "dynasties" that ruled this country?
>  
>  
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: davidarayner <theblackprussian@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 21:28
> Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>  
> Next weekend the BBC are treating us to David Starkey's "Monarchy and Music".
>
> Apparently, without the Royals we wouldn't have any music; as if we didn't already know how wonderful they are!
>
> Personally, I'm getting severely fed up with the BBCs ever more prodigious output of Royal pornography.
>
> As a republican it would be nice if, just now and again, there was a single program taking the opposite point of view. Especially since we're all forced to fund the corporation if we like its output or not. But then, there are too many knighthoods and peerages at stake; another example of how the existence of the monarchy corrupts everything it touches.
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@> wrote:
> >
> > PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> > Elaine
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In , "davidarayner" <theblackprussian@...> wrote:
>
> Next weekend the BBC are treating us to David Starkey's "Monarchy and Music".
>
> Apparently, without the Royals we wouldn't have any music; as if we didn't already know how wonderful they are!
>
> Personally, I'm getting severely fed up with the BBCs ever more prodigious output of Royal pornography.
>
> As a republican it would be nice if, just now and again, there was a single program taking the opposite point of view. Especially since we're all forced to fund the corporation if we like its output or not. But then, there are too many knighthoods and peerages at stake; another example of how the existence of the monarchy corrupts everything it touches.

Marie replies:
I'm a bit agnostic on the monarchy. Do you really think having a monarchy is the cause of all the corruption in high places in this country? The government of the day really decides who gets knighthoods and peerages, not the Queen. We could lose the monarchy and still have these gongs, or keep the monarchy and do away with them. But either way, or doing away with both, it wouldn't stop money talking or people being rewarded for assisting corruption in high places. The culture of secrecy has a lot to answer for.



>
> --- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@> wrote:
> >
> > PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> > Elaine
> >
>

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf

Here's some idea of what to expect from D Starkey. Henries V & VIII get mentioned but not our hero.
I'm tempted by the Civil War music as it sounds unfamiliar.
Jan.

Sent from my iPad

On 13 Jul 2013, at 21:40, Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...> wrote:

> Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> musicians.
> Paul
> Salut et Fraternité to you David!
>
> On 13/07/2013 21:28, davidarayner wrote:
> > Next weekend the BBC are treating us to David Starkey's "Monarchy and Music".
> >
> > Apparently, without the Royals we wouldn't have any music; as if we didn't already know how wonderful they are!
> >
> > Personally, I'm getting severely fed up with the BBCs ever more prodigious output of Royal pornography.
> >
> > As a republican it would be nice if, just now and again, there was a single program taking the opposite point of view. Especially since we're all forced to fund the corporation if we like its output or not. But then, there are too many knighthoods and peerages at stake; another example of how the existence of the monarchy corrupts everything it touches.
> >
> > --- In , "ellrosa1452" <kathryn198@...> wrote:
> >> PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> >> Elaine
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>

Bastille Day greetings.... :-)

So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English). 

If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier. 

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July



 
Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
musicians.
Paul
Salut et Fraternité to you David!


Richard Liveth Yet!

It's because all the only English secular composer, Robert Morton, went to Bruges circa 1470 presumably to work for Margaret. All the rest of our music - and we were world leaders in polyphony, was scuppered by fat Henry.
 
There's been a v good programme on called H8 Patron or Plunderer which debunks the idea that he was a gifted musician - he just copied others and what had gone before.


________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 16:57
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 

Bastille Day greetings.... :-)

So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English). 

If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier. 

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July


 
Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
musicians.
Paul
Salut et Fraternité to you David!

Richard Liveth Yet!

Judy,

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf

I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!

Jan.


Sent from my iPad

On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

> Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
>
> So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
>
> If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>
>
> Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> musicians.
> Paul
> Salut et Fraternité to you David!
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>

Thanks, Hillary. This is, alas, what I suspected. Also, looking with greater care at the liner notes of the CD, Morton is the only English composer represented; musical pieces of England and the Lowlands have been lumped together...so  a mere 6-7 minutes are even arguably British. Pitiful!

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July



 
It's because all the only English secular composer, Robert Morton, went to Bruges circa 1470 presumably to work for Margaret. All the rest of our music - and we were world leaders in polyphony, was scuppered by fat Henry.
 
There's been a v good programme on called H8 Patron or Plunderer which debunks the idea that he was a gifted musician - he just copied others and what had gone before.


________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 16:57
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 

Bastille Day greetings.... :-)

So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English). 

If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier. 

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 
Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
musicians.
Paul
Salut et Fraternité to you David!

Richard Liveth Yet!

Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie


________________________________
From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July



 
Judy,

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf

I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!

Jan.

Sent from my iPad

On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:

> Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
>
> So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
>
> If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>
>
> Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> musicians.
> Paul
> Salut et Fraternité to you David!
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>

I do think though that if you listen to some of the German pieces in particular they sound very like the music we associate with the Tudors a hundred years' or more later. Perhaps some of our earlier stuff went to Europe and 'came back'. There's one which sounds very like the great Lutheran hymn 'A Safe Stronghold', which is always dated from nearly a hundred years' later. BTW sorry Morton wasn't of course our only secular composer, he's just the only one whose work seems to have survived because he went to Bruges. 



________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 18:51
Subject: Re: Re: English music

 

Thanks, Hillary. This is, alas, what I suspected. Also, looking with greater care at the liner notes of the CD, Morton is the only English composer represented; musical pieces of England and the Lowlands have been lumped together...so  a mere 6-7 minutes are even arguably British. Pitiful!

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July


 
It's because all the only English secular composer, Robert Morton, went to Bruges circa 1470 presumably to work for Margaret. All the rest of our music - and we were world leaders in polyphony, was scuppered by fat Henry.
 
There's been a v good programme on called H8 Patron or Plunderer which debunks the idea that he was a gifted musician - he just copied others and what had gone before.

________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 16:57
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 

Bastille Day greetings.... :-)

So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English). 

If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier. 

Judy
 
Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 
Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
musicians.
Paul
Salut et Fraternité to you David!

Richard Liveth Yet!

Interesting. How many Robert Mortons were there?
We know of the Cardinal's nephew, the "human shredder".
We know of one who fought for Richard at Bosworth.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hilary Jones
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Re: English music



I do think though that if you listen to some of the German pieces in particular they sound very like the music we associate with the Tudors a hundred years' or more later. Perhaps some of our earlier stuff went to Europe and 'came back'. There's one which sounds very like the great Lutheran hymn 'A Safe Stronghold', which is always dated from nearly a hundred years' later. BTW sorry Morton wasn't of course our only secular composer, he's just the only one whose work seems to have survived because he went to Bruges.

________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 18:51
Subject: Re: Re: English music



Thanks, Hillary. This is, alas, what I suspected. Also, looking with greater care at the liner notes of the CD, Morton is the only English composer represented; musical pieces of England and the Lowlands have been lumped together...so a mere 6-7 minutes are even arguably British. Pitiful!

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July


It's because all the only English secular composer, Robert Morton, went to Bruges circa 1470 presumably to work for Margaret. All the rest of our music - and we were world leaders in polyphony, was scuppered by fat Henry.

There's been a v good programme on called H8 Patron or Plunderer which debunks the idea that he was a gifted musician - he just copied others and what had gone before.

________________________________
From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 16:57
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July



Bastille Day greetings.... :-)

So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).

If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.

Judy

Loyaulte me lie

________________________________
From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July


Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
musicians.
Paul
Salut et Fraternité to you David!

Richard Liveth Yet!

Robert Morton of Cerne (who fought at Bosworth) was followed by a son and grandson of the same name.

There was another who became Vice-President of OCP.

--- In , "Stephen Lark" <stephenmlark@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting. How many Robert Mortons were there?
> We know of the Cardinal's nephew, the "human shredder".
> We know of one who fought for Richard at Bosworth.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hilary Jones
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: English music
>
>
>
> I do think though that if you listen to some of the German pieces in particular they sound very like the music we associate with the Tudors a hundred years' or more later. Perhaps some of our earlier stuff went to Europe and 'came back'. There's one which sounds very like the great Lutheran hymn 'A Safe Stronghold', which is always dated from nearly a hundred years' later. BTW sorry Morton wasn't of course our only secular composer, he's just the only one whose work seems to have survived because he went to Bruges.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 18:51
> Subject: Re: Re: English music
>
>
>
> Thanks, Hillary. This is, alas, what I suspected. Also, looking with greater care at the liner notes of the CD, Morton is the only English composer represented; musical pieces of England and the Lowlands have been lumped together...so a mere 6-7 minutes are even arguably British. Pitiful!
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:45 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>
> It's because all the only English secular composer, Robert Morton, went to Bruges circa 1470 presumably to work for Margaret. All the rest of our music - and we were world leaders in polyphony, was scuppered by fat Henry.
>
> There's been a v good programme on called H8 Patron or Plunderer which debunks the idea that he was a gifted musician - he just copied others and what had gone before.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013, 16:57
> Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>
>
> Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
>
> So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
>
> If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
>
> Judy
>
> Loyaulte me lie
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>
> Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> musicians.
> Paul
> Salut et Fraternité to you David!
>
> Richard Liveth Yet!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen

--- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
>
> Judy
>  
> Loyaulte me lie
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...>
> To: "" <>
> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>
>
>  
> Judy,
>
> http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
>
> I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
>
> Jan.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
>
> > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> >
> > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> >
> > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> >
> >
> >
> > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > musicians.
> > Paul
> > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> >
> > Richard Liveth Yet!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

And didn't the morticians do a good job tidying up Warwick's corpse for display/"lying in state" in St Paul's? I didn't spot any dents in his armour either, despite the battering he got at Barnet. Wikipedia said St Paul's. Wikipedia is better than PG & provides sources!
Hilarious tosh!
Jan.

Sent from my iPad

On 14 Jul 2013, at 22:52, "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:

> A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> >
> > Judy
> >
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Judy,
> >
> > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> >
> > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> >
> > Jan.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > >
> > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > >
> > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@...>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > musicians.
> > > Paul
> > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Would he have lain in state in his armour....? Hilarious tosh indeed....It's the Panto season arrived early..:0)

--- In , Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...> wrote:
>
> And didn't the morticians do a good job tidying up Warwick's corpse for display/"lying in state" in St Paul's? I didn't spot any dents in his armour either, despite the battering he got at Barnet. Wikipedia said St Paul's. Wikipedia is better than PG & provides sources!
> Hilarious tosh!
> Jan.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 14 Jul 2013, at 22:52, "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
>
> > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > To: "" <>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Judy,
> > >
> > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > >
> > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> > >
> > > Jan.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > >
> > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > musicians.
> > > > Paul
> > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

Warwick gave the "stand and fight" speech at Towton; moreover at Barnet he did exactly the opposite - he was caught trying to get away on his horse, and was dragged from the saddle and slain, despite Edward calling for him to be taken alive.

Henry Stafford didn't pass until October; here its placed before the snuffing out of Henry VI.

To cap the historical accuracy, its been proved that Somerset was not even at Barnet. At Tewkesbury, he was given a trial before his formal execution. What about Oxford and Exeter mistakenly attacking each other - that's the stuff I've been waiting for. Not a hint.

I thought Game of Thrones skimped a bit on the battles, but where did the budget go on this production?

The death of Lord Wenlock at Tewkesbury alone would be worth giving that battle an episode of its own, here its a mere afterthought.

--- In , Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@...> wrote:
>
> And didn't the morticians do a good job tidying up Warwick's corpse for display/"lying in state" in St Paul's? I didn't spot any dents in his armour either, despite the battering he got at Barnet. Wikipedia said St Paul's. Wikipedia is better than PG & provides sources!
> Hilarious tosh!
> Jan.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 14 Jul 2013, at 22:52, "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
>
> > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > To: "" <>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Judy,
> > >
> > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > >
> > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> > >
> > > Jan.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > >
> > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > musicians.
> > > > Paul
> > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

>
> I thought Game of Thrones skimped a bit on the battles, but where did the budget go on this production?

Who needs a battle budget when you've got a good fog machine? Not that I've seen it yet.....
Marie

--- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
>
> A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet

You mean it wasn't Friar Bungay who made the fog? I'm shocked.
Marie

I've had the DVD of Game of Thrones for yonks, but hadn't watched it.  After reading the comparisons between it and TWQ on this thread, I started watching.   There is no comparison!  GOT is brilliant in all respects.  I've given up with TWQ after watching the first episode.  What a terribly wasted opportunity........


________________________________
: davidarayner <theblackprussian@...> wrote:

 


I thought Game of Thrones skimped a bit on the battles, but where did the budget go on this production?

You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.


--- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
>
> A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
>
> --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> >
> > Judy
> >  
> > Loyaulte me lie
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > To: "" <>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> > Judy,
> >
> > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> >
> > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> >
> > Jan.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> >
> > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > >
> > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > >
> > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > musicians.
> > > Paul
> > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > >
> > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Oh yes Mary so I did...you have to realise that I was traumatised at times...not knowing whether to laugh or cry....or throw something at the tv...Or indeed just throw up....:0/
Eileen

--- In , "ricard1an" <maryfriend@...> wrote:
>
> You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
>
>
> --- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> >
> > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >  
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > To: "" <>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Judy,
> > >
> > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > >
> > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> > >
> > > Jan.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > >
> > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > musicians.
> > > > Paul
> > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

I was most amused by the fearsome & utterly confident Margaret of Anjou's utter brainlessness. Every time she had to make a decision she asked Anne (aged 14) and then responded to little Anne's suggestions with "that's a good idea" or "just what I was thinking myself" or words to that effect. And, of course, they turned out to be disastrous ideas. And QM needed Anne to point out to her that she couldn't just dump her because might be carrying Prince Edward's child, or would need to at some point if the Lancastrian dynasty were to continue. The terrifying queen goes blank for a moment and then you see it gradually dawn. Ohhh.....
I'm quite sure Margaret of Anjou understood Anne's dynastic position use only too well and that is almost certainly why she was kept with the army.
Marie
P.S. And wasn't it interesting to see them embark from the same deserted beach they landed at all that time later? No doubt the same beach Henry Tudor set off from later. I was looking forward to seeing Tenby.
P.P.S. And isn't Elizabeth Woodville's magic effective? Whatever do you think went wrong in 1483?



--- In , "ricard1an" <maryfriend@...> wrote:
>
> You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
>
>
> --- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> >
> > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> >
> > --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >  
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > To: "" <>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Judy,
> > >
> > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > >
> > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> > >
> > > Jan.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > >
> > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > musicians.
> > > > Paul
> > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Me too. It is unbelieveable. It is so bad and everything moves so quickly and is so confusing. The only good thing is if we, who know a bit about that period, are confused then the poor general public won't have any idea what is going on and won't be able to talk about WQ as history.

--- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@...> wrote:
>
> Oh yes Mary so I did...you have to realise that I was traumatised at times...not knowing whether to laugh or cry....or throw something at the tv...Or indeed just throw up....:0/
> Eileen
>
> --- In , "ricard1an" <maryfriend@> wrote:
> >
> > You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In , Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >  
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > > To: "" <>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > > Judy,
> > > >
> > > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > > >
> > > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> > > >
> > > > Jan.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > >
> > > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > > musicians.
> > > > > Paul
> > > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

My thoughts on the latest episode.

* Well, darn it, George's tantrum of "I should be king!" and the subsequent mudbath didn't make the final cut after all.

* The depiction of the Battle of Barnet was horrid, though I think they managed to get Richard's arm wound in there. (If so, it's not evident in subsequent scenes.)

* Would someone please tell me please how the heck Margaret of Anjou knew the soldier who showed up to escort her to London was the Duke of Gloucester? Because no one uses any names in the scene (except Richard calling Anne, 'Lady Anne), yet the queen knows that the soldier's Edward's brother?

* I liked Richard's entrance (well-timed, if historically false), and the bit where Richard asked Anne, "Do you love me?" and caught her flat-footed -- and his revision of, "Do you love me...and the king?"

* Is anyone else confused as to how the director is having Aneurin Barnard portray Richard? He's opaque and entirely contained when dealing with Anne. Then he's transparent and deliberately contemptuous when sniping at George. I've no idea what the duke's motivation is for the broad difference in his reactions/non-reaction. If this is to build suspense, it's not working.

* When the heck, and why, did Richard draw his sword in the scene with Margaret A.? All we saw was him putting it away.

* The murder scene of Henry VI was just ridiculous. I also can't figure out why EW would be shocked! shocked I tell you! to watch her husband and brothers-in-law (bloodlessly) smothering the old king, when only a few hours before she was avidly watching her brother Anthony and his Tower minions sneak up on the Lancastrians camped about the Tower (say wha-at? they were?) and slash and hack their bloody way onscreen to help his sister get back her crown.

* Is anyone else getting tired of watching squires repeatedly buckle the left shoulder guard of Edward's armor?

* Horrible Histories has better plots.

~Weds


--- In , "ricard1an" <maryfriend@...> wrote:
>
> You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
>
>
> --- In , "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> >
> > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen

For those of us on Facebook - so far it only has 19 "likes" which I find hard to believe especially since PG's page has over 6,000
 
https://www.facebook.com/#!/TheWhiteQueenRubbishTosh
 
and this was in the Mail today
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2346670/This-White-Queen-travesty-Your-Majesty-Why-howlers-like-concrete-steps-metal-railings-rubber-boots-turning-TVs-new-period-drama-laughing-stock.html
 
 


________________________________
From: EILEEN BATES <eileenbates147@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 21:17
Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 
Oh yes Mary so I did...you have to realise that I was traumatised at times...not knowing whether to laugh or cry....or throw something at the tv...Or indeed just throw up....:0/
Eileen

--- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "ricard1an" <maryfriend@...> wrote:
>
> You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
>
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "EILEEN BATES" <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> >
> > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >  
> > > Loyaulte me lie
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Judy,
> > >
> > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > >
> > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant CDs, I imagine.
> > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know; guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which impressed the presenter very much.
> > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be much better known!
> > >
> > > Jan.
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > >
> > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were English).
> > > >
> > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > musicians.
> > > > Paul
> > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > >
> > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

You might also enjoy (?!?) a Facebook page entitled The White Queen Rubbish
& Tosh.

A J


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:26 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> For those of us on Facebook - so far it only has 19 "likes" which I find
> hard to believe especially since PG's page has over 6,000
>
> https://www.facebook.com/#!/TheWhiteQueenRubbishTosh
>
> and this was in the Mail today
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2346670/This-White-Queen-travesty-Your-Majesty-Why-howlers-like-concrete-steps-metal-railings-rubber-boots-turning-TVs-new-period-drama-laughing-stock.html
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EILEEN BATES <eileenbates147@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 21:17
> Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on
> BBC2 17 July
>
>
>
> Oh yes Mary so I did...you have to realise that I was traumatised at
> times...not knowing whether to laugh or cry....or throw something at the
> tv...Or indeed just throw up....:0/
> Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "ricard1an"
> <maryfriend@...> wrote:
> >
> > You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and
> all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by
> the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "EILEEN BATES"
> <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in
> armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if
> it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to
> him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing
> a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so
> Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me
> if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of
> Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the
> minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads
> of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three
> brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's
> bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the
> Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > > ý
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of
> TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ý
> > > > Judy,
> > > >
> > > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > > >
> > > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on
> Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years
> of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant
> CDs, I imagine.
> > > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know;
> guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which
> impressed the presenter very much.
> > > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be
> much better known!
> > > >
> > > > Jan.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > >
> > > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard
> is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was
> greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a
> mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were
> English).
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have
> one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but
> nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of
> TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > > musicians.
> > > > > Paul
> > > > > Salut et Fraternitýý to you David!
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

Saw Women of the Cousins' War, the book she co-wrote with Baldwin and Jones reduced in the discount bookshop, The Works for £2.99 today! Must be another bestseller then.
Elaine

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Ah so it isn't about her other book that she wrote with Badlwin and Michael Jones about the women of the WOTR? Is she saving that one up? She got panned for her section on Jacquetta as 'poor history' (look at amazon reviews) whilst Baldwin and particularly Jones, get high praise for their sections on Cis and MB. I do hope she's not going to make a whole new career out of this. If so, I can't wait for her to get going on EOY and for Starkey to wade in! 
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 0:05
> Subject: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>  
>
> PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> Elaine
>
>
>
>
>
>

I've already "liked" it!
 
 

From: A J Hibbard <ajhibbard@...>
To: "" <>
Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 23:16
Subject: Re: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July


You might also enjoy (?!?) a Facebook page entitled The White Queen Rubbish
& Tosh.

A J


On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:26 PM, liz williams <
ferrymansdaughter@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> For those of us on Facebook - so far it only has 19 "likes" which I find
> hard to believe especially since PG's page has over 6,000
>
> https://www.facebook.com/#!/TheWhiteQueenRubbishTosh
>
> and this was in the Mail today
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2346670/This-White-Queen-travesty-Your-Majesty-Why-howlers-like-concrete-steps-metal-railings-rubber-boots-turning-TVs-new-period-drama-laughing-stock.html
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: EILEEN BATES <eileenbates147@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 21:17
> Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on
> BBC2 17 July
>
>
>
> Oh yes Mary so I did...you have to realise that I was traumatised at
> times...not knowing whether to laugh or cry....or throw something at the
> tv...Or indeed just throw up....:0/
> Eileen
>
> --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "ricard1an"
> <maryfriend@...> wrote:
> >
> > You missed the bit when Edward came back, I think from Tewkesbury and
> all his sprogs shouted Daddy Daddy. In 1471? I think not. I was laughing by
> the end. I couldn't believe it was so awful.
> >
> >
> > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, "EILEEN BATES"
> <eileenbates147@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A summary of this version tonight....as per usual Edward clad in
> armour fleetingly visits his wife who is in Sanctuary...which looks as if
> it is in an underground dungeon...her presenting their latest sprog to
> him...him saying Im off to battle...a quick roll in the hay...EB performing
> a magic spell thingy thus ensuring there will be a mist at Barnet so
> Warwick will get deaded or sorry was that to get George dreaded...excuse me
> if Im losing the plot...MB looking as if she has a mouthful of
> Maltesers...a very plain Anne Neville who is growing plainer by the
> minute...oh yeah...nearly forgot...there was another sea voyage with loads
> of water being chucked at the actresses....and last but not least the three
> brothers Grimm....I mean Plantagenet ....creep into old king Henry's
> bedroom and proceed to smother him unto death..and still I await Puff the
> Magic Dragon to appear....anytime now....Eileen
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:%40yahoogroups.com, Judy Thomson
> <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Jan. I'll hunt these down!
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > > Â
> > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Jan Mulrenan <janmulrenan@>
> > > > To: "mailto:%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:
> %40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of
> TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Â
> > > > Judy,
> > > >
> > > > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/music-monarchy.pdf
> > > >
> > > > I hope you can access this podcast from the Early Music Show on
> Radio 3 a couple of weeks back.
> > > > It consisted of music contemporary with our hero & the early years
> of H7, much of it from the Eton Song Book.
> > > > Somewhere on the Radio 3 website are the details of the relevant
> CDs, I imagine.
> > > > Nothing got said about the king that the well read won't know;
> guardedly neutral/ wary, perhaps,
> > > > best expresses it, but it was set in Fotheringhay church which
> impressed the presenter very much.
> > > > The music selected was mostly religious & some of it deserves to be
> much better known!
> > > >
> > > > Jan.
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > >
> > > > On 14 Jul 2013, at 16:57, Judy Thomson <judygerard.thomson@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Bastille Day greetings.... :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > So much English music from the reigns of both Edward and Richard
> is apparently lost. I recently purchased a CD by the York Waits and was
> greatly disappointed to find most of the tracks were Flemish, etc., with a
> mere handful of English pieces (of 57+ minutes of music, only 15ish were
> English).
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone knows of a better "collection," let me know. I do have
> one recording of the Hilliard Ensemble doing an all English programme, but
> nearly everything is much earlier.
> > > > >
> > > > > Judy
> > > > >
> > > > > Loyaulte me lie
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Paul Trevor Bale <paul.bale@>
> > > > > To: mailto:%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:40 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: Another version of
> TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Bet there's no mention of Richard's love of music and patronage of
> > > > > musicians.
> > > > > Paul
> > > > > Salut et Fraternité to you David!
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard Liveth Yet!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> 
>






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Read the reviews on amazon and you'll see why Eileen. But Jones was good as usual, as you'd expect him to be considering he'd already written on MB



________________________________
From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@...>
To:
Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 23:46
Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 

Saw Women of the Cousins' War, the book she co-wrote with Baldwin and Jones reduced in the discount bookshop, The Works for £2.99 today! Must be another bestseller then.
Elaine

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Ah so it isn't about her other book that she wrote with Badlwin and Michael Jones about the women of the WOTR? Is she saving that one up? She got panned for her section on Jacquetta as 'poor history' (look at amazon reviews) whilst Baldwin and particularly Jones, get high praise for their sections on Cis and MB. I do hope she's not going to make a whole new career out of this. If so, I can't wait for her to get going on EOY and for Starkey to wade in! 
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@...>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 0:05
> Subject: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>  
>
> PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> Elaine
>
>
>
>
>
>

The Jones & Underwood biography of Margaret Beaufort is excellent.
Marie

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Read the reviews on amazon and you'll see why Eileen. But Jones was good as usual, as you'd expect him to be considering he'd already written on MB
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 23:46
> Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>  
>
> Saw Women of the Cousins' War, the book she co-wrote with Baldwin and Jones reduced in the discount bookshop, The Works for £2.99 today! Must be another bestseller then.
> Elaine
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> >
> > Ah so it isn't about her other book that she wrote with Badlwin and Michael Jones about the women of the WOTR? Is she saving that one up? She got panned for her section on Jacquetta as 'poor history' (look at amazon reviews) whilst Baldwin and particularly Jones, get high praise for their sections on Cis and MB. I do hope she's not going to make a whole new career out of this. If so, I can't wait for her to get going on EOY and for Starkey to wade in! 
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 0:05
> > Subject: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> >
> >  
> >
> > PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> > Elaine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Indeed. Eileen and I  were trying to persuade Carol to put it to the top of her list. 



________________________________
From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 10:15
Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July

 

The Jones & Underwood biography of Margaret Beaufort is excellent.
Marie

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Read the reviews on amazon and you'll see why Eileen. But Jones was good as usual, as you'd expect him to be considering he'd already written on MB
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@...>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 23:46
> Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>  
>
> Saw Women of the Cousins' War, the book she co-wrote with Baldwin and Jones reduced in the discount bookshop, The Works for £2.99 today! Must be another bestseller then.
> Elaine
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> >
> > Ah so it isn't about her other book that she wrote with Badlwin and Michael Jones about the women of the WOTR? Is she saving that one up? She got panned for her section on Jacquetta as 'poor history' (look at amazon reviews) whilst Baldwin and particularly Jones, get high praise for their sections on Cis and MB. I do hope she's not going to make a whole new career out of this. If so, I can't wait for her to get going on EOY and for Starkey to wade in!à
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 0:05
> > Subject: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> >
> > à
> >
> > PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> > Elaine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Oh yes....you can pick it up fairly cheap if you go secondhand.....Eileen

--- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Indeed. Eileen and I  were trying to persuade Carol to put it to the top of her list. 
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: mariewalsh2003 <[email protected]>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2013, 10:15
> Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
>
>  
>
> The Jones & Underwood biography of Margaret Beaufort is excellent.
> Marie
>
> --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> >
> > Read the reviews on amazon and you'll see why Eileen. But Jones was good as usual, as you'd expect him to be considering he'd already written on MB
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@>
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013, 23:46
> > Subject: Re: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> >
> >  
> >
> > Saw Women of the Cousins' War, the book she co-wrote with Baldwin and Jones reduced in the discount bookshop, The Works for £2.99 today! Must be another bestseller then.
> > Elaine
> >
> > --- In , Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ah so it isn't about her other book that she wrote with Badlwin and Michael Jones about the women of the WOTR? Is she saving that one up? She got panned for her section on Jacquetta as 'poor history' (look at amazon reviews) whilst Baldwin and particularly Jones, get high praise for their sections on Cis and MB. I do hope she's not going to make a whole new career out of this. If so, I can't wait for her to get going on EOY and for Starkey to wade in! 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: ellrosa1452 <kathryn198@>
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013, 0:05
> > > Subject: Another version of TWOTR by PG on BBC2 17 July
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > > PG has another set of programmes starting on Wednesday on BBC2 at 9.00 called The Real White Queen and Her Rivals about Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret Beaufort and Anne Neville. There is a trailer available on the BBC History magazine site. Nothing new in the clip, which shows her walking around Westminster Abbey and focuses on the coronation of Richard in 1483. It occurs to me that what she really wants is to be part of the syllabus on a women's studies' course as the focal point she reiterates continually is the role that women played and in particular these women and in her pursuit of these aims she distorts truth and rewrites history. The facts are subsumed and perverted under the guise of fiction. However, these two programmes further muddy the waters as she now has her "historians" head on!
> > > Elaine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hilary Jones <hjnatdat@...> wrote:
>
> Indeed. Eileen and I  were trying to persuade Carol to put it to the top of her list. 

Carol responds:

I've added it to my Amazon wish list, but right now I have too many expenses to buy books. Sad to say, I've been disappointed by those I've added recently, especially Rosemary Horrox. I didn't expect her to regard Richard as a usurper. (Sean Cunningham, yes.)

Carol